Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
England and Israel, the two most highly vaccinated countries, are the two best places to watch to see what's coming. England used a vaccine not employed in the USA; Israel used the Pfizer exclusively. Ergo Israel is a better analog for the US.
Great discussion on the Travis & Sexton show with Alex Berenson at link. Bottom line is, the data coming out of UK and Israel indicates mRNA vaccines are far less than hoped for, due to rapid waning of effectiveness; natural immunity is FAR superior. Perhaps the primary long term benefit of the vaccines will be a 2x or 4x (or so) better survival rate. Good, but not great. The implications are that vaccines make sense for high risk persons - immuno compromised and elderly - but maybe not so much sense for the healthy under-40 demographics.
That is probably a better explanation than the one Sam offered for the FDA decision to not give universal approval for the booster shots (that vaccines were effective). Rather, it means that vaccines are showing limitations, to include high viral shedding from asymptomatic vaccinated people, which indicate more limited use is appropriate.
A Deep Dive with Alex Berenson: Covid Fact and Fiction
I think the best explanation for the panel's decision is probably the one adopted by the panel itself. The prevailing view was the opposite of what you suggest. They found that the Israeli data didn't show a rapid enough waning in effectiveness to warrant universal boosters, in view of the limited benefit to younger/healthier demographics who (along with the rest of society) will be much better off with natural immunity.
FIFY
vaccines are proving to facilitate, rather than inhibit, the rate of virus mutation.
Based on what evidence?
the growing numbers of vaxxed people walking around with covid, and known science.
The data is quite clear, particularly from Israel, that these vaccines are doing a decent/good job of reducing deaths but not nearly so good a job as advertised on preventing infection. That's called a "leaky vaccine." Leaky vaccines are known entities. Data rolling in is all pointing to these mRNA vaccines being very leaky. THAT'S THE REAL REASON THE FDA DIDN'T ISSUE A BLANKET ENDORSEMENT OF BOOSTERS. The risk/return of vaccinating low risk demographics just isn't there.....the general population would be better off if the young & healthy got natural immunity, as such would slow the rate of mutations & virulence.
about leaky vaccines:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24895500/
http://epidemics.psu.edu/articles/view/leaky-vaccines-promote-the-transmission-of-more-virulent-virus
Again. Not criticizing Pharma or FDA or politicians. We had an existential threat bearing down on us. We gave it our best shot, and came up in an unbelievably short time a group of vaccines which have slashed the death rate. But in solving that problem, we created another. We had no way of knowing how CV would react to these brand new vaccines. But now it's pretty obvious they are leaky. They are saving lives, in the short run, but also extending the life of the pandemic in the long run.
Time to readjust strategy.
The under 50 crowd in good health with BMI under 25 should probably not get vaccinated.
That'd require a substantial change of direction from policy establishments.
We'll see if they can summon the courage to act on science, or double down on the stuff that's not working.
The decision not to recommend boosters universally is actually a positive sign.
That is a very dangerous misinterpretation of the research on leaky vaccines.
The lead author of the study you cite, Andrew Read, has weighed in on this question and is worth quoting at length.
Quote:
'Joe Rogan Is Getting This Completely Wrong,' Says The Scientist Who Conducted The Vaccine Study
Andrea Morris
Contributor
Joe Rogan's public misrepresentation of a 2015 vaccine study has gone viral. His misunderstanding of the study leads Rogan to wrongly conclude that vaccinating people against COVID-19 will increase the chances of some hyper-virulent mutation. You can watch the video below. But before you do, the lead scientist and author of the study who spent 10 years conducting this research has something to say. Because he's horrified.
"Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong," says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State. "He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now."
"We're talking a very different virus and very different vaccines. The details in biology really matter a lot. The chicken vaccines we worked with, the first-generation vaccine, definitely reduced disease, severity and death." But unlike the COVID mRNA vaccines, the chicken vaccine "didn't stop transmission at all." And this is one of the key differences between what was being studied in Read's paper and our current situation with the global pandemic. "Those [vaccinated] chickens just kept churning out the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks." Again, this is a key difference. "It's a very different virus from SARS-2. A key issue here is transmissibility."
"Think about what's happening with evolution," offers Read. "Mutations can occur anytime the [virus] replicates. So the more replication, the more variants are generated. At the moment, the vast majority of the replication is happening in unvaccinated people. You can tell that because the majority of cases in the hospital are unvaccinated individuals. That is where the evolutionary action is happening at the moment."
"Evolution, at the moment, is all happening in the unvaccinated. That's where the majority of cases are. That's the majority of transmission. Every time a virus replicates, it can mutate. So the evolution is, right now, occurring in the body of people who are not vaccinated. Rogan is completely wrong trying to deduce anything else."
"Delta came in India where there was crazy amounts of transmission, not amongst the vaccinated, but amongst the unvaccinated. That's what we need to stop. The unvaccinated need to either get vaccinated or socially distance, mask up, stopping transmission. That's the trick here."
Read agrees with the vast majority of health experts that vaccines are our best weapon against COVID-19. He adds, "the best way to slow evolution is to stop the virus. It's as simple as that. No replication, no evolution."
Rogan seems to think that mRNA vaccines are quite leaky because of breakthrough infections. Read points out that no vaccine is 100% effective. Although we still need more data to determine how leaky they are, the rate of breakthrough infections in vaccinated people remains statistically low enough to consider the mRNA vaccines highly effective at preventing infection.
"We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are. It's conceivable that they are actually close to non-leaky. I'm amazed how good these mRNA vaccines are. They're incredibly good."
"The study was tweeted a thousand times last night, according to our metrics," says Read. "I had a physician in England reach out to me on Friday asking me to [clarify] because his patients are using my paper to argue against vaccination." Calling into question the effectiveness of vaccines was never the intention of his 2015 study. "I am genuinely shocked. I've been doing work for 20 years now on how vaccines might drive the evolution of viruses. There's nothing in any of that 20 years work that argues in favor of withholding lifesaving vaccines. It's just shocking to me." He adds, "There are 600,000 Americans dead so far. The vast majority of those deaths are vaccine-preventable. There's not a single scenario that would argue in favor of not using [vaccines] to save the next hundred thousand. Not one scenario."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2021/08/08/joe-rogan-is-getting-this-completely-wrong-says-the-scientist-who-conducted-the-vaccine-study/?sh=221fe3fc7bd1
I'm just noting what the data says about the efficacy of this vaccine. It appears to be allowing substantial break-through infections beyond calculated efficacy percentages, which in turn facilitates rather than inhibits virus mutation.
And I'm just responding to that. It is wildly, horrifyingly wrong, according to the author of the study you cited in support.
No, you are not. You are, in a classic strawman maneuver, responding Rogan, who author said is wildly wrong. Read said essentially same thing I said. See bolded, above. An infection is an infection, whether it's in a vaccinated person or not. Yes, right now, in the USA, we apparently do not have enough vaccinated people for the number of breakthroughs to top the number of cases in unvaxxed. But in Israel and UK, where the vaxx rate is very high, they are seeing the opposite....an increasing number of breakthru cases...i.e. a leaky vaccine. That is plainly what the data suggests. Countries with very high vaxx rates are seeing infection rates/curves that are not unlike ours.
I'm listening as I type to an interview of Robert Malone, the man who invented mRNA vaccine technology. I He says these vaccines have been rushed, have serious side effects which are not being adequately captured in VAERS (also discussed here), and that the FDA decision on boosters reflects his concerns about vaccinating individuals not in high risk categories. We are vaccinating for yesterday's strain of the vaccines, which will have a diminishing return as variants evolve, and could court all manner of future problems, not the least of which is the well known problem attendant to any vaccine regime - more and more frequent vaccination can in some cases cause reduced ability to mount immunity. Malone also cited article at link, which is....well it's problematic. The author, Halseltine, is apparently a giant in the virology world. Malone agrees this is the variant to watch. Again, Malone is the guy who invented the mRNA vax technology
He recommends that we should move to a therapeutic approach for non-high risk individuals, focused on monoclonal antibodies and anti-inflammatories like CHQ. It's working all across the world, successfully.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/09/20/a-new-usjapan-variant-to-watch/?sh=196122743509If I am to infer from what Malone and Haseltine are discussing...it would seem reasonable to ask whether or not our manifestly less than perfect vaccine has been defeated before it could be fully implemented.
It's also seems reasonable to start pressuring our leaders to quit fighting therapeutics as an impediment to vaccinations, and start treating them as the primary response for healthy people.
You are completely, utterly misreading the situation.
