Baylor Baseball

Mack Rhoades extremely positive that Baylor will land in a good place

August 17, 2021
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Baylor Director of Athletics Mack Rhoades discusses the NCAA ruling against Baylor Athletics, the current state of the Big 12 Conference, and more.

 
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Mack Rhoades extremely positive that Baylor will land in a good place

6,640 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 22 days ago by Robert Wilson
Gcable
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He never met a car he couldn't sell.
JP1037
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Understandable as everything is still in limbo but a whole lot of nothing.
DanaDane
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I have confidence in Mack trying his best, but what else would you expect him to say? Is there really any AD in college athletics that's gonna go in front of his fan base and say, "Oh man, you guys don't realize how F'D we are!"
PartyBear
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If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
BellCountyBear
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Swart Dra
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PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
bear2be2
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Swart Dra said:

PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
What's your preferred alternative?
RedBear05
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Assuming all these schools are interested (Based on the radio show and Smokey said there have been at least 15 schools interested in joining the Big12 so I would assume some of these are).

From the AAC: Cincinnati, Navy
Independents: BYU and Army
From the MW: Boise St. and Air Force

Would put us at 14 schools (Could even go to 16 with UCF and Memphis) with the best teams available plus the support the conference would gain from all the folks that support the service academies. Would think that membership should at least challenge the Pac12 and maybe the ACC for viewership.

The problem of course is trying to keep the back stabbing to a minimum and keep the current 8 from jumping to another conference.
JP1037
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Swart Dra said:

PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
Not dumb. He is right. Just unlikely to work out.
blackie
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RedBear05 said:

Assuming all these schools are interested (Based on the radio show and Smokey said there have been at least 15 schools interested in joining the Big12 so I would assume some of these are).

From the AAC: Cincinnati, Navy
Independents: BYU and Army
From the MW: Boise St. and Air Force

Would put us at 14 schools (Could even go to 16 with UCF and Memphis) with the best teams available plus the support the conference would gain from all the folks that support the service academies. Would think that membership should at least challenge the Pac12 and maybe the ACC for viewership.

The problem of course is trying to keep the back stabbing to a minimum and keep the current 8 from jumping to another conference.
Until we see otherwise, the current 8 can't jump anywhere. Someone has got to want you before you can jump.
bear2be2
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RedBear05 said:

Assuming all these schools are interested (Based on the radio show and Smokey said there have been at least 15 schools interested in joining the Big12 so I would assume some of these are).

From the AAC: Cincinnati, Navy
Independents: BYU and Army
From the MW: Boise St. and Air Force

Would put us at 14 schools (Could even go to 16 with UCF and Memphis) with the best teams available plus the support the conference would gain from all the folks that support the service academies. Would think that membership should at least challenge the Pac12 and maybe the ACC for viewership.

The problem of course is trying to keep the back stabbing to a minimum and keep the current 8 from jumping to another conference.
I don't get the fascination with the service academies. The only focus at this point should be on-field performance. None of these schools help enough from a TV eyeballs or market-share standpoint to make that a priority. Add the four (or six) best programs you can and build a league that can compete with the other Power 4 on the field.
PartyBear
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I think he posted that before the Pac announcement. To be honest if the figures someone posted yesterday were accurate, just the 8 alone as a conference have a payout not extremely off from the current Pac's payout this is with USC keep in mind. We need to be wise. I really do suspect in 2 or 3 years alot of current P5 schools who have no clue right now are going to be in the scrambling state the 8 have been in over the past month when they lose the cream of their conferences. Realignment didnt just end in otherwords.

Right now just lobby hard as hell for BYU and Cincy. Two very credible P5 schools themselves and get them here and locked in with us.
bear2be2
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PartyBear said:

I think he posted that before the Pac announcement. To be honest if the figures someone posted yesterday were accurate, just the 8 alone as a conference have a payout not extremely off from the current Pac's payout this is with USC keep in mind. We need to be wise. I really do suspect in 2 or 3 years alot of current P5 schools who have no clue right now are going to be in the scrambling state the 8 have been in over the past month when they lose the cream of their conferences. Realignment didnt just end in otherwords.
It might have just ended ... For a while anyway. There's no real need for mass reshuffling. It only happens if the Big Ten decides they want it to, and there's been no indication that's the case.
PartyBear
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Man I dont know how much longer is USC willing to make low 30 million a year (they make about 28 million now I believe) instead of in the 50 -60 million range? This alliance will not equalize things between those conferences even if it actually does come into effect at some point the future. Maybe I'm a little tainted by the experience of being partners with Texas and OU. But those blue bloods are all the same. None of them will be altruistic for their lower level partners. If USC decides to ask the BiG for admission like Texas and OU did the SEC, the BiG would take them despite all the vague announcements yesterday.
RedBear05
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bear2be2 said:


I don't get the fascination with the service academies. The only focus at this point should be on-field performance. None of these schools help enough from a TV eyeballs or market-share standpoint to make that a priority. Add the four (or six) best programs you can and build a league that can compete with the other Power 4 on the field.
I was looking at on-field performance by looking at the final 2019 rankings (I don't count anything about 2020 as it was a mulligan year). And both Navy (#20) and Air Force (#22) finished 2019 ranked. Plus the service academies have a good following and we're talking about eye-balls on the TV. Having the armed forces as part of the Big12 would be great. (Just heard Smoky agree its not a bad idea on the live radio show as I was typing this.)

Far better than Houston and SMU that bring nothing to the table.
Robert Wilson
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RedBear05 said:

bear2be2 said:


I don't get the fascination with the service academies. The only focus at this point should be on-field performance. None of these schools help enough from a TV eyeballs or market-share standpoint to make that a priority. Add the four (or six) best programs you can and build a league that can compete with the other Power 4 on the field.
I was looking at on-field performance by looking at the final 2019 rankings (I don't count anything about 2020 as it was a mulligan year). And both Navy (#20) and Air Force (#22) finished 2019 ranked. Plus the service academies have a good following and we're talking about eye-balls on the TV. Having the armed forces as part of the Big12 would be great. (Just heard Smoky agree its not a bad idea on the live radio show as I was typing this.)

Far better than Houston and SMU that bring nothing to the table.
Houston just played in a Final 4. When's the last time a service academy did that? And Houston's football history stacks up with the service academies, especially if you don't count pre-face mask era.

The reason the Big 12 never wanted Houston is (i) we already had that market and (ii) when we let them into the SW they immediately started winning it. You put them in a better league, and they'll immediately be pretty darn good because their recruiting will automatically be good. And now we need back into that market.
Swart Dra
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JP1037 said:

Swart Dra said:

PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
Not dumb. He is right. Just unlikely to work out.


Nope. It dumb.
JP1037
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Swart Dra said:

JP1037 said:

Swart Dra said:

PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
Not dumb. He is right. Just unlikely to work out.


Nope. It dumb.
Good argument. Nice grammar.
bear2be2
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Swart Dra said:

JP1037 said:

Swart Dra said:

PartyBear said:

If the 8 stay together and expand to 10-12 or so. I would actually consider that a good conference actually. It might even be better longer term than joining what is now called the PAC 12.
dumb
Not dumb. He is right. Just unlikely to work out.


Nope. It dumb.
Again, what is your preferred alternative?
Swart Dra
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Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.
bear2be2
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Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.
And your ****ting on other people's opinions? Staying at eight would be suicide for the Big 12. There would be no "in a few years." The next TV contact would be lower than the AAC's with this league's current inventory.
Bear8084
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Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.


Baylor's big sports will be fine. The Big 12 has to add the right teams and stabilize and start rebuilding it's brand. As stated before, staying at 8 would be the worst decision and would most definitely put us in the AAC.
Swart Dra
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Bear8084 said:

Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.


Baylor's big sports will be fine. The Big 12 has to add the right teams and stabilize and start rebuilding it's brand. As stated before, staying at 8 would be the worst decision and would most definitely put us in the AAC.
If the Big 12 adds from the AAC they will be the AAC.
Bear8084
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Swart Dra said:

Bear8084 said:

Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.


Baylor's big sports will be fine. The Big 12 has to add the right teams and stabilize and start rebuilding it's brand. As stated before, staying at 8 would be the worst decision and would most definitely put us in the AAC.
If the Big 12 adds from the AAC they will be the AAC.


Not really. Big 12, even without OUT, has more clout than the AAC when it comes to conferences. You add BYU and some of the best schools from AAC. That would stabilize the Big 12 and then we can move forward. Staying at 8 is suicide. There is no time to wait to see if this long shot dream of P5 schools becoming mad and leaving their conferences for the Big 12 happens. None will do that, especially to a Big 12 still sitting at 8 and not stable.
bear2be2
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Swart Dra said:

Bear8084 said:

Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.


Baylor's big sports will be fine. The Big 12 has to add the right teams and stabilize and start rebuilding it's brand. As stated before, staying at 8 would be the worst decision and would most definitely put us in the AAC.
If the Big 12 adds from the AAC they will be the AAC.
Nonsense. A reconstituted Big 12 would be far deeper and more competitive than the AAC.

But ignoring that, the fact that you think this league has any prayer of attracting current P5 teams, now or in the future, displays how out of line with reality your opinions on this topic are.

The choice for the Big 12's eight leftovers is to rebuild their league with the best G5 programs available or to prepare for a future in the AAC our Mountain West. That's it. There are no other options.
RedBear05
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Robert Wilson said:

RedBear05 said:

bear2be2 said:


I don't get the fascination with the service academies. The only focus at this point should be on-field performance. None of these schools help enough from a TV eyeballs or market-share standpoint to make that a priority. Add the four (or six) best programs you can and build a league that can compete with the other Power 4 on the field.
I was looking at on-field performance by looking at the final 2019 rankings (I don't count anything about 2020 as it was a mulligan year). And both Navy (#20) and Air Force (#22) finished 2019 ranked. Plus the service academies have a good following and we're talking about eye-balls on the TV. Having the armed forces as part of the Big12 would be great. (Just heard Smoky agree its not a bad idea on the live radio show as I was typing this.)

Far better than Houston and SMU that bring nothing to the table.
Houston just played in a Final 4. When's the last time a service academy did that? And Houston's football history stacks up with the service academies, especially if you don't count pre-face mask era.

The reason the Big 12 never wanted Houston is (i) we already had that market and (ii) when we let them into the SW they immediately started winning it. You put them in a better league, and they'll immediately be pretty darn good because their recruiting will automatically be good. And now we need back into that market.


We all know that basketball weighs very little in these decisions. Which sucks for Baylor too!
So you're reasoning is pretty much nostalgia. Yes I would love to bring back the southwest conference too, but in the situation were in it's just not the best course. (Houston, SMU and Rice are all the same currently)
blackie
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Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.
My understanding is that in order to really be eligible for the CFP your conference must have a championship game (this is why we have one), and by NCAA rules, your league must have at least 10 teams in order to have that game. It was 12, but they got the NCAA to let us have one with ten. They are not going to reduce that to 8 anytime soon, I would think. Besides, if you have 12 and a couple decide to leave, you still have a league. If we lose many now, we got nothing.

There is absolutely NO reason for the teams you mentioned to move to a conference where the money is likely to be significantly less. All of this is about money. Baylor's only chance to have big sports is for the Big XII to expand, and in doing so will be in a conference that actually is a league of peers, versus a league of a few bullies and the rest.

I don't know what it will take to get it through people's heads. NONE of the Big XII teams left bring enough to the table to move the needle to prod the other conferences to want to expand. It makes no sense to bring in someone that doesn't add anymore value than what most of the teams you already have add to the pie. It just makes the slices smaller. Perhaps someday the whole model will change, but that ain't today and it ain't for a while down the road.

This is not so much about Baylor or any of the other 8. You can look at the PAC, B1G, SEC, and ACC and find many schools that wouldn't move the needle either. They just happen to be in conferences that were formed before media got involved and started the arms race. They would not be invited today if they weren't already there.
Robert Wilson
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RedBear05 said:

Robert Wilson said:

RedBear05 said:

bear2be2 said:


I don't get the fascination with the service academies. The only focus at this point should be on-field performance. None of these schools help enough from a TV eyeballs or market-share standpoint to make that a priority. Add the four (or six) best programs you can and build a league that can compete with the other Power 4 on the field.
I was looking at on-field performance by looking at the final 2019 rankings (I don't count anything about 2020 as it was a mulligan year). And both Navy (#20) and Air Force (#22) finished 2019 ranked. Plus the service academies have a good following and we're talking about eye-balls on the TV. Having the armed forces as part of the Big12 would be great. (Just heard Smoky agree its not a bad idea on the live radio show as I was typing this.)

Far better than Houston and SMU that bring nothing to the table.
Houston just played in a Final 4. When's the last time a service academy did that? And Houston's football history stacks up with the service academies, especially if you don't count pre-face mask era.

The reason the Big 12 never wanted Houston is (i) we already had that market and (ii) when we let them into the SW they immediately started winning it. You put them in a better league, and they'll immediately be pretty darn good because their recruiting will automatically be good. And now we need back into that market.


We all know that basketball weighs very little in these decisions. Which sucks for Baylor too!
So you're reasoning is pretty much nostalgia. Yes I would love to bring back the southwest conference too, but in the situation were in it's just not the best course. (Houston, SMU and Rice are all the same currently)
No. Not nostalgia. Potential quality of teams after better conference affiliation and market for recruiting.
ScottS
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This is good news
pillbug22
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I think one thing to remember when people mention one or some of the remaining 8 "jumping ship" and no one wants them is that in reality, it doesn't have to be limited to a P5 as the destination.

I can absolutely see where if this drags on, there will be a few of the remaining 8 who get a little anxious and seriously consider "jumping" to a G5 because they'd rather be in the driver's seat in determining their future (even if it's their backup choice) rather than be left holding a bag of nothing if the remaining 8 do fall apart. Choice of being a big fish in a little pond, or left to see where you get dumped? Might be interesting choice for some schools to make.
bear2be2
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pillbug22 said:

I think one thing to remember when people mention one or some of the remaining 8 "jumping ship" and no one wants them is that in reality, it doesn't have to be limited to a P5 as the destination.

I can absolutely see where if this drags on, there will be a few of the remaining 8 who get a little anxious and seriously consider "jumping" to a G5 because they'd rather be in the driver's seat in determining their future (even if it's their backup choice) rather than be left holding a bag of nothing if the remaining 8 do fall apart. Choice of being a big fish in a little pond, or left to see where you get dumped? Might be interesting choice for some schools to make.
I can't see any way that happens. The Big 12 is still an autonomy 5 conference until it's told it's not, and the Forgotten Eight will still make good money through then end of this GoR deal. No one's doing anything until that expires, particularly jumping to a poorly paying G5 league that will likely happily take them in 2025, if it comes to that.
PartyBear
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I doubt anyone in the XII is jumping to a for certain G5 when it is still a very open question as to whether the XII will still be P5 post Texas and OU with the right 2-4 current G5 schools, meaning the XII could still be considered a P5.
Ghostrider
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Did anyone expect Mack to say different?
Swart Dra
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Bear8084 said:

Swart Dra said:

Bear8084 said:

Swart Dra said:

Stay at 8, try to get membership with someone later, find a few teams that don't like where they are in a few years.

There are some proud programs that are not going to like any of this, ark, neb, Colorado, and others.

If Big 12 brings in anyone, BU's days of big sports are numbered.


Baylor's big sports will be fine. The Big 12 has to add the right teams and stabilize and start rebuilding it's brand. As stated before, staying at 8 would be the worst decision and would most definitely put us in the AAC.
If the Big 12 adds from the AAC they will be the AAC.


Not really. Big 12, even without OUT, has more clout than the AAC when it comes to conferences. You add BYU and some of the best schools from AAC. That would stabilize the Big 12 and then we can move forward. Staying at 8 is suicide. There is no time to wait to see if this long shot dream of P5 schools becoming mad and leaving their conferences for the Big 12 happens. None will do that, especially to a Big 12 still sitting at 8 and not stable.


Nope.

If you add any school that brings in less rev that the average of the remaining 8, you hurt the conference.

Period.

Better to stay at 8 than bring in anyone who's doesn't bring in more than the average.

BYU is the only one out there that isn't affiliated with another conference.

You sit.

You wait.

You don't add anyone that doesn't increase the average.


Ncaa FB is about a 64 piece pie.

The pie doesn't get bigger, the slices just get smaller.
blackie
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Certainly glad that people who actually know what they are doing, have the facts, and knows how this really works are in charge. That is all I'll say in response. One thing for sure. If Texas and OU actually leave before 2025 and we add no one, we are not eligible for a conference championship game and thus likely not eligible for the CFP regardless of how many games you win. There also might be a clause in the contract that if we don't play a championship game, it has ramifications on the media money we get prior to 2025.

Once again, glad that smarter people than some of what I have seen on this board are handling this.
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