No. 25 Baylor (11-4, 3-1) completes its two-game road trip in Arizona on Tuesday, Jan. 14, at 10 p.m. CST at Arizona (10-5, 4-0). The game will be televised on ESPN.
Predictions
KenPom: Arizona 78, Baylor 74
Torvik: Arizona 78, Baylor 72
Evan Miyakawa: Arizona 77, Baylor 73
Haslemetrics: Arizona 77, Baylor 73
Coaches
Arizona: Tommy Lloyd (50) 98-25 3 NCAAs; 2 Sweet 16s
Baylor: Scott Drew (54); 477-259 overall (457-248 at Baylor); 12 NCAAs; 5 Sweet 16s; 3 Elite 8s; FF; 1 National Championship
Head to Head: 0-0
Arizona Starters
Arizona Bench
Baylor Starters
Baylor Bench
*sat out the last three games with injuries
Time for Mark to claim his Covid year. Any NIL money left for that?boognish_bear said:
Vital not happy@BaylorMBB ! Step it up
— The Villain 🃏 (@MarkVitalJr) January 15, 2025
IvanBear said:
TV broadcasters bringing more heat at our players than the coaching staff ever will…
Is there a problem with our training staff? It's a question I've long wondered. We've had a lot of nagging injury issues as a team since 2020 (2021 being the rare year with no injuries). We've also been happy to overlook health issues like Austin and Butler in the past as well.Quinton said:
He knows Cryer well. From my very limited understanding, Cryer felt his injury wasn't handled the best and that's the only player with anything close to this situation. He hasn't had any injury issues since playing at Uh.
IvanBear said:Is there a problem with our training staff? It's a question I've long wondered. We've had a lot of nagging injury issues as a team since 2020 (2021 being the rare year with no injuries). We've also been happy to overlook health issues like Austin and Butler in the past as well.Quinton said:
He knows Cryer well. From my very limited understanding, Cryer felt his injury wasn't handled the best and that's the only player with anything close to this situation. He hasn't had any injury issues since playing at Uh.
Not calling for any heads but it's a legit question at this point. Sochan's midseason injury comes to mind too it lasted way longer than it should have if memory serves.
Cryer had one if not two surgeries on his foot while at Baylor. He played very little in his last year or so. Did he have another procedure after he left? It is my impression that LJ had checked out well before he left. Everyday John came back from as devastating an injury as I ever want to see. Not everyone recovers the same way or at the same speed...not everyone commits to rehab with the same dedication. Jonathan and LJ-- training wise-- are two very different people.IvanBear said:Is there a problem with our training staff? It's a question I've long wondered. We've had a lot of nagging injury issues as a team since 2020 (2021 being the rare year with no injuries). We've also been happy to overlook health issues like Austin and Butler in the past as well.Quinton said:
He knows Cryer well. From my very limited understanding, Cryer felt his injury wasn't handled the best and that's the only player with anything close to this situation. He hasn't had any injury issues since playing at Uh.
Not calling for any heads but it's a legit question at this point. Sochan's midseason injury comes to mind too it lasted way longer than it should have if memory serves.
I don't disagree with Butler and Austin but they're all examples of our training staff etc/ seeing things very differently from many other programs. It's just a noteworthy discrepancy.TWD 1974 said:Cryer had one if not two surgeries on his foot while at Baylor. He played very little in his last year or so. Did he have another procedure after he left? It is my impression that LJ had checked out well before he left. Everyday John came back from as devastating an injury as I ever want to see. Not everyone recovers the same way or at the same speed...not everyone commits to rehab with the same dedication. Jonathan and LJ-- training wise-- are two very different people.IvanBear said:Is there a problem with our training staff? It's a question I've long wondered. We've had a lot of nagging injury issues as a team since 2020 (2021 being the rare year with no injuries). We've also been happy to overlook health issues like Austin and Butler in the past as well.Quinton said:
He knows Cryer well. From my very limited understanding, Cryer felt his injury wasn't handled the best and that's the only player with anything close to this situation. He hasn't had any injury issues since playing at Uh.
Not calling for any heads but it's a legit question at this point. Sochan's midseason injury comes to mind too it lasted way longer than it should have if memory serves.
Perhaps a better question might be: are our players getting the best surgical care? It is a valid question every top program has to ask continually.
It is my understanding that Austin's medical situation was not fully understood until tests made before the NBA draft. I am not sure what was known or not known at Baylor about Butlers heart condition, but it in no observable way hindered his having a great college career and his current NBA one. We played 34 games Sochan's year, he played in 30. Injuries that take less than 2 weeks to recover are not injuries.
bear2be2 said:Our defense would be even worse if we played four-guard lineups extensively. And our guards suck, so there's also that.lakersfan34 said:
Offensively, the spacing is limited by play 2 non-shooting bigs. Haven't watched a lot of games this year but feels like they should consider going with only one of these guys at a time. I assume the loss of Bridges and no equivalent option on the roster is really limiting.
Defensively, probably need to go zone most of the time. These guys are clueless against most action and fundamentally unsound to reliably play man to man all game.
The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
The 2022 team often gets lumped into this discussion, and I don't think it should. That team was excellent. It just had a bunch of injuries and lost to the hottest team in the country in the Round of 32.Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
A Big 12 Championship in this freaking conference is never a down year - particularly with the adversity faced. That is absolutely crazy talk. Borderline speechless if you genuinely believe that.Guitarbiscuit said:Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
People don't forget. But I really don't think 2022 was that great a year.
Definitely flawed since and this team is the worst of them. I knew Creighton was a bad matchup the second I saw their underseeded team in our region. Just like UNC was the year before. But that's part of the madness. We had a bad draw two years in a row, but that doesn't mask the fact we have steadily had a slightly downward trajectory.bear2be2 said:The 2022 team often gets lumped into this discussion, and I don't think it should. That team was excellent. It just had a bunch of injuries and lost to the hottest team in the country in the Round of 32.Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
That team should be separated from the last three, which were/are all deeply flawed teams. They're talented enough to win games and make the tournament with a solid seed. But none were serious threats to do anything in March because of poor defense and roster construction.
I think Wright will be that floor general. He's just not quite ready to handle that role full-time yet.Big12Bear said:Definitely flawed since and this team is the worst of them. I knew Creighton was a bad matchup the second I saw their underseeded team in our region. Just like UNC was the year before. But that's part of the madness. We had a bad draw two years in a row, but that doesn't mask the fact we have steadily had a slightly downward trajectory.bear2be2 said:The 2022 team often gets lumped into this discussion, and I don't think it should. That team was excellent. It just had a bunch of injuries and lost to the hottest team in the country in the Round of 32.Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
That team should be separated from the last three, which were/are all deeply flawed teams. They're talented enough to win games and make the tournament with a solid seed. But none were serious threats to do anything in March because of poor defense and roster construction.
I think Drew is adjusting to this new setup. We will look completely different next year. I really want to see leadership - a floor general. I'm not a huge fan of the SuperFreshmen coming in, but this kid has a motor and that is a different animal. I don't see anyone on the floor right now that has that.
Totally agree. I'm not sure why I said "floor general." I think he will be that guy too.bear2be2 said:I think Wright will be that floor general. He's just not quite ready to handle that role full-time yet.Big12Bear said:Definitely flawed since and this team is the worst of them. I knew Creighton was a bad matchup the second I saw their underseeded team in our region. Just like UNC was the year before. But that's part of the madness. We had a bad draw two years in a row, but that doesn't mask the fact we have steadily had a slightly downward trajectory.bear2be2 said:The 2022 team often gets lumped into this discussion, and I don't think it should. That team was excellent. It just had a bunch of injuries and lost to the hottest team in the country in the Round of 32.Big12Bear said:I enjoyed the Big 12 Championship the year after the Natty. An incredible feat in spite of, perhaps the most injuries we've ever seen in a year - and all during conference play, not non con. Coach Of The Year in '22, but people forget.Guitarbiscuit said:TWD 1974 said:3 years before the championship run of 2020-22,, we lost 6 out of 7 conference games midseason, ending the year in the second round of the NIT, 19-15. The next year we start the year with losses to Texas Southern, and a month later, to Stephen F. Austin. There are peaks and valleys in sports and every program goes through them. We had a 3-year window with Butler, Vitals, Mitchell. We would undoubtedly have had a deep run the Covid year and would have gone further without injuries in 2022. We got something most of us hardly dared to dream Baylor could achieve out of that window. I can live with the disappointment of only NC thus far. Everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong. I think I will leave it up to the fella that brought us here to see what he can do about it.Quinton said:bear2be2 said:The 2022 team was really talented -- and elite when healthy. Injuries derailed that season. And even with those, we lost in overtime to the eventual runner-up in the tournament.Quinton said:
I believe the disappointment of 2022 sucked a lot of the energy out of the program and took a lot out of the coaches. Shouldn't be that way but just an observation
I don't think it's particularly fair to call that team a disappointment.
.
I should have worded better. The team was not a disappointment, the season was due to uncontrollable circumstances.
The staff was expecting another final four/title from that team and I think they would have gotten it if moderately healthy. I haven't seen the same urgency or energy since.
I get that you are more than willing to give CSD a break because of his history of success. But these opinions that everyone has about faulty roster construction and over reliance on one and dones are very valid opinions, so valid that they are approaching fact.
Since the championshp, we have not been good. And it's getting worse by the year.
That team should be separated from the last three, which were/are all deeply flawed teams. They're talented enough to win games and make the tournament with a solid seed. But none were serious threats to do anything in March because of poor defense and roster construction.
I think Drew is adjusting to this new setup. We will look completely different next year. I really want to see leadership - a floor general. I'm not a huge fan of the SuperFreshmen coming in, but this kid has a motor and that is a different animal. I don't see anyone on the floor right now that has that.
I'm more worried about the bunch of mercenaries we put around him. I just don't believe this "reshuffle the deck every year" strategy will ever yield anything but frustrating teams. Great teams grow together over time. Our guys don't ever get that time anymore.
