No. 4 Baylor (26-3; 15-2) at WVU (20-10; 8-9) Preview & Game Thread

Wuzzy -- back away from the cliff. We're a Top 10 team that's going through a rough patch the way pretty much all top 10 teams do at one time or another. Gonzaga, Dayton and SD State didn't go through it because there's no one in their conferences to challenge them. Kansas has gotta be the most impressive team this year because for the most part they've avoided that "lull" in everyone's season where you go through the rough patch and lose a few.

I agree the overall season body of work is great and there are a ton of teams out there that would kill to have anything even approaching this team's resume, but on the other hand to say the least we aren't exactly "peaking" going into the post season (2-3 in our last 5 games and one of those 2 wins was an overtime squeaker at home). I'm most concerned about the free throw issue as we haven't been good at that all season and these last 5 games we've stunk up the court with them. If that doesn't get fixed before the Tournament I doubt we'll see the Elite 8 let alone the Final 4.

DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

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I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

IowaBear said:

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46 points is LAUGHABLE. This team needs to wake up or they're 1 an done in both tourneys

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Don't see the one and done. However, TCU loss coupled with this loss will drop us to about #7 or #8. Number 2 NCAA seed just around the corner. Unless we get to Big 12 final game. I'll go on record, this years team has exceeded all my expectation. No matter how a team gets to 26-4 at regular season end is impressive. Just don't see anyone aceing out Drew for COY. So far I've enjoyed the ride. See you in K.C. Sic'em Bears.

bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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I really wish we could get a straight answer as to what's going on with Clark. Guys come back from an ACL stronger in this amount of time.

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Not all guys. Every recovery is different, and Clark is clearly struggling with his. The dude needs the offseason badly.

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My point is that his wasn't even an ACL. Supposedly a meniscus. It just doesn't track. It's not normal, but we've been given no explanation.

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Why do we deserve an explanation? We know he hurt his knee and that he's struggled in his recovery from the surgery. Nothing else really matters.

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Were you named hall monitor of the site, and I missed the announcement? My original post said nothing about "deserving" an explanation. I clearly said I wish, and deliberately used that wording. I don't dispute any of your Captain Obvious observations, btw. Aren't you curious as to why?

Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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I really wish we could get a straight answer as to what's going on with Clark. Guys come back from an ACL stronger in this amount of time.

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Not all guys. Every recovery is different, and Clark is clearly struggling with his. The dude needs the offseason badly.

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My point is that his wasn't even an ACL. Supposedly a meniscus. It just doesn't track. It's not normal, but we've been given no explanation.

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Why do we deserve an explanation? We know he hurt his knee and that he's struggled in his recovery from the surgery. Nothing else really matters.

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Were you named hall monitor of the site, and I missed the announcement? My original post said nothing about "deserving" an explanation. I clearly said I wish, and deliberately used that wording. I don't dispute any of your Captain Obvious observations, btw. Aren't you curious as to why?

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To me, it is what it is. The why doesn't really change anything. He's hurt and hasn't been able to return to full strength. Knowing why doesn't make him healthy or capable of competing at a higher level.

The people monitoring his progress know the details, and they're doing what they think is best for his recovery. I just want Clark to be healthy again at some point, regardless of the nature/severity of his injury and whatever setbacks he's experienced. And if resting him for the rest of the season is the best bet to get him there, so be it, as bad as that sucks right now.

bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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I really wish we could get a straight answer as to what's going on with Clark. Guys come back from an ACL stronger in this amount of time.

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Not all guys. Every recovery is different, and Clark is clearly struggling with his. The dude needs the offseason badly.

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My point is that his wasn't even an ACL. Supposedly a meniscus. It just doesn't track. It's not normal, but we've been given no explanation.

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Why do we deserve an explanation? We know he hurt his knee and that he's struggled in his recovery from the surgery. Nothing else really matters.

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We deserve to know everything...just because. Screw hippa. And recovering from injury is an exact science, so I want answers..NOW.

And as an aside, every number 1 seed is dominant and easy to predict this yr, amirite??

bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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I really wish we could get a straight answer as to what's going on with Clark. Guys come back from an ACL stronger in this amount of time.

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Not all guys. Every recovery is different, and Clark is clearly struggling with his. The dude needs the offseason badly.

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My point is that his wasn't even an ACL. Supposedly a meniscus. It just doesn't track. It's not normal, but we've been given no explanation.

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Why do we deserve an explanation? We know he hurt his knee and that he's struggled in his recovery from the surgery. Nothing else really matters.

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Were you named hall monitor of the site, and I missed the announcement? My original post said nothing about "deserving" an explanation. I clearly said I wish, and deliberately used that wording. I don't dispute any of your Captain Obvious observations, btw. Aren't you curious as to why?

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To me, it is what it is. The why doesn't really change anything. He's hurt and hasn't been able to return to full strength. Knowing why doesn't make him healthy or capable of competing at a higher level.

The people monitoring his progress know the details, and they're doing what they think is best for his recovery. I just want Clark to be healthy again at some point, regardless of the nature/severity of his injury and whatever setbacks he's experienced. And if resting him for the rest of the season is the best bet to get him there, so be it, as bad as that sucks right now.

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Again, I don't disagree with or dispute one word of your response. I simply differ from you in that I would like to know why his recovery has deviated from the norm, and therefore understand. Other than that, you and I agree on all the points that you have stated.

Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Saddle Up! said:

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I really wish we could get a straight answer as to what's going on with Clark. Guys come back from an ACL stronger in this amount of time.

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Not all guys. Every recovery is different, and Clark is clearly struggling with his. The dude needs the offseason badly.

---

My point is that his wasn't even an ACL. Supposedly a meniscus. It just doesn't track. It's not normal, but we've been given no explanation.

---

Why do we deserve an explanation? We know he hurt his knee and that he's struggled in his recovery from the surgery. Nothing else really matters.

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Were you named hall monitor of the site, and I missed the announcement? My original post said nothing about "deserving" an explanation. I clearly said I wish, and deliberately used that wording. I don't dispute any of your Captain Obvious observations, btw. Aren't you curious as to why?

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To me, it is what it is. The why doesn't really change anything. He's hurt and hasn't been able to return to full strength. Knowing why doesn't make him healthy or capable of competing at a higher level.

The people monitoring his progress know the details, and they're doing what they think is best for his recovery. I just want Clark to be healthy again at some point, regardless of the nature/severity of his injury and whatever setbacks he's experienced. And if resting him for the rest of the season is the best bet to get him there, so be it, as bad as that sucks right now.

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Again, I don't disagree with or dispute one word of your response. I simply differ from you in that I would like to know why his recovery has deviated from the norm, and therefore understand. Other than that, you and I agree on all the points that you have stated.

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Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be a dick, by the way. I'm just an extreme pragmatist, and curiosity's not a strong suit of mine. The why matters IMO, but more to those involved in his recovery than me as a fan.

IowaBear said:

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46 points is LAUGHABLE.

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Yeah, except they scored 64 against one of the top defensive teams in the country on the road.
Way to pick a score at a random point in the 2nd half and act like they scored 46 for the whole game. Moron.

Stefano DiMera said:

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Don't you love these idiots who are silent during the 23 game winning streak ..but pop up during the struggles?

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les miserables

We are hurt and tired but I believe in these guys. Let's go get that Big 12 Tourney Title and make a run.

Well that was incredibly frustrating.

Will the B12 tournament results impact final seed placement in the NCAA tournament? Looks like we may be too banged up to do well in the B12. I'd hate to see them lose their current spot.

TexasScientist said:

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Will the B12 tournament results impact final seed placement in the NCAA tournament? Looks like we may be too banged up to do well in the B12. I'd hate to see them lose their current spot.

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Yes, conference tournament performances count as far as final seeding for the NCAA Tournament. For the bubble teams what they do in their conference tournament often ends up being the difference in getting in or going to the NIT. Otherwise, yes, a team's Tournament seeding can change based on how they do in their conference tournament.

Some "experts" are saying BU's overall body of work was so good during the season that we're a number 1 seed regardless of what happens in KC, but I'm not sure about that and believe we've got to win at least 1 in the B12 Tourney to not slip to a 2 seed.

We can still win a conference championship by winning out in Kansas City. Easier said than done, yes, but still doable.

bear2be2 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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^ 7-2, lost that last 2. I'm talking about the Bears of late. This isn't the same team from January not even close. This team is gonna pull a Virginia and bow out to a 16 because they cannot score the rock to save their lives

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You want to put $100 on this? I'll give you a chance right here and now to put your money where your mouth is and show some real conviction in the hyperbolic nonsense you post here.

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Thanks for the following DM, IowaBear: "Do you even have $100 to bet? I can't imagine it's easy having a steady income being 40 and living in the parents basement."

So I guess that's a no?

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Bear2be2: You should STOP with the personal attacks about "living in a basement" and "not having $100", etc. You and ImwithBU are prime examples of people who come on here and when someone makes a statement that is his opinion you respond in this way. I am so so so sick and tired of your ilk. We are all BU fans and we want this team to win it all and yes, this is as frustrated as I have been in a long time with this team. But to come on here and wanna make bets against the very team we are rooting for is just stupid.

THIS GOES OUT TO ALL OF YOU WHO TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT: Sarcasm has it's place as is well-known historically back to Francis Beacon in the 15th century. But it was clever and funny and had substance behind it. However, you are not. It is pathetic to hear from you guys who wanna make this personal. I made a mistake one time on here and got personal with someone who sarcastically said to me: "Well we should make Wuzzy Bear Coach of the Year" just bc I had an opinion that this team is not selecting its shots well, running an offense that has become increasingly stagnant and various things like that. So save yourself from total ignorance when someone expresses an opinion. No reason to challenge someone with a bet when you don't know NOTHING about them.

Another thing that pisses me off is the acronyms like STFU, et.al. This is so unnecessary. You can respond to someone in a cordial manner without roasting them personally.

bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

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I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

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Please define "oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles." There is always a 30K foot look down and a 500 foot look down. From 30K feet it is obvious this team is having major issues scoring. From 500 feet they are not running the offense they were earlier in the year when we were spacing the floor and guys are moving and attacking. Too many times recently we are penetrating and then doing nothing with that unlike KU who KNOWS where the open guys are OR they finish themselves. Their spacing and passing is amazing. With BU it should be similar with a 4out lineup. You need guys like Vital to be facilitators bc he will never be guarded on the perimeter or even from the FT line. That means he has an open floor to make the pass that leads to the finish.

On defense the ball pressure still has moments of brilliance and then some possessions are awful AS COMPARED TO late Jan/early Feb. That is Drew's problem cuz I do not blame the players.

All I am saying is that if you look down from 30K feet lately this looks like a .500 team. From 500 feet the reasons are numerous and I do not accept the "being tired and beat up" excuse bc everybody is this time of year. I am not diminishing what this team has done this season. It will get them a great seed. I have stated many times that we are on the same level as KU but I do not think we are at this time and this is the WRONG time to have a slump.

I certainly hope the next few days of rest and recovery pay off giving them time to fix the issues. I am sure you agree. Remeber the Ekpe Udoh team just got better and better down the stretch and were a charge away against Acy vs. Duke from going to the FF which Duke won. This team has not shown me that in the last 5 games. I don't disagree that injuries to key players have contributed to that, but great teams find a way to overcome. It's just like in the stock market you have to adjust to the environment and you will be wrong probably half the time if not more. But when you are right you make the most of it and when you are wrong you make it a minor error and move on. That's the winning formula for this team.

DanaDane said:

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Wuzzy -- back away from the cliff. We're a Top 10 team that's going through a rough patch the way pretty much all top 10 teams do at one time or another. Gonzaga, Dayton and SD State didn't go through it because there's no one in their conferences to challenge them. Kansas has gotta be the most impressive team this year because for the most part they've avoided that "lull" in everyone's season where you go through the rough patch and lose a few.

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That is an assumption and interpretation of what I said. Not being in the top 10 is not necessarily getting ready to jump "off the cliff." But if you read a couple other posts here to bear2be2 and so forth you will get my opinion in my responses. There is NOTHING this team cannot fix. I really do not care what the heck Gonzaga et.al. is going through. That is their business. From a BU perspective I am positive about this team in the tourney but what has concerned me lately is not responding to the challenge IMMEDIATELY when a team goes on a run. You have to shut it down with defense. But if you can't score then you are always going to be in a tight game. I don't see too many holes in the defense, but it is not leading to points on the other end. Just my opinion, but we are waiting too late in the shot clock to attack and for the life of me I cannot figure what we are trying to do on offense. This was not so earlier in the year and we were making KEY shots at important times.

I haven't seen Butler take an open midrange shot like forever. The 15 ft jumper is a lost art today. When you have guys that can shoot that shot 50% of the time whether it be a fall away or off balance shot and make it there is an amazing spark. Not to mention the 3 ball has disappeared and in today's game those are huge.

Oh well, I can't seem to keep it short, but just my thoughts. I am an old timer I guess but bball was always my sport playing through high school and coaching on the junior high level for some time before entering the real world. So I know a little bit about practice and preparation throughout an ENTIRE season. It's hard but on the college level and at the top of the heap it is more pronounced and everything gets scrutinized.

wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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^ 7-2, lost that last 2. I'm talking about the Bears of late. This isn't the same team from January not even close. This team is gonna pull a Virginia and bow out to a 16 because they cannot score the rock to save their lives

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You want to put $100 on this? I'll give you a chance right here and now to put your money where your mouth is and show some real conviction in the hyperbolic nonsense you post here.

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Thanks for the following DM, IowaBear: "Do you even have $100 to bet? I can't imagine it's easy having a steady income being 40 and living in the parents basement."

So I guess that's a no?

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Bear2be2: You should STOP with the personal attacks about "living in a basement" and "not having $100", etc. You and ImwithBU are prime examples of people who come on here and when someone makes a statement that is his opinion you respond in this way. I am so so so sick and tired of your ilk. We are all BU fans and we want this team to win it all and yes, this is as frustrated as I have been in a long time with this team. But to come on here and wanna make bets against the very team we are rooting for is just stupid.

THIS GOES OUT TO ALL OF YOU WHO TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT: Sarcasm has it's place as is well-known historically back to Francis Beacon in the 15th century. But it was clever and funny and had substance behind it. However, you are not. It is pathetic to hear from you guys who wanna make this personal. I made a mistake one time on here and got personal with someone who sarcastically said to me: "Well we should make Wuzzy Bear Coach of the Year" just bc I had an opinion that this team is not selecting its shots well, running an offense that has become increasingly stagnant and various things like that. So save yourself from total ignorance when someone expresses an opinion. No reason to challenge someone with a bet when you don't know NOTHING about them.

Another thing that pisses me off is the acronyms like STFU, et.al. This is so unnecessary. You can respond to someone in a cordial manner without roasting them personally.

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That DM was sent to me from IowaBear, not the other way around. I wouldn't resort to such silly, cliched nonsense. I'll call a clown a clown or tell a troll to STFU from time to time, but my responses are directed only at what's posted here. I leave the armchair profiling to doofuses like Iowa.

As for the bet, I don't understand your issue there. If someone says something outlandish, I see no problem whatsoever with challenging their conviction of that opinion. If they don't want their reactionary bull**** called out, they can stop posting reactionary bull***** And if they actually believe it, I'd be happy to take $100 from them.

wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

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I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

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Please define "oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles." There is always a 30K foot look down and a 500 foot look down. From 30K feet it is obvious this team is having major issues scoring. From 500 feet they are not running the offense they were earlier in the year when we were spacing the floor and guys are moving and attacking. Too many times recently we are penetrating and then doing nothing with that unlike KU who KNOWS where the open guys are OR they finish themselves. Their spacing and passing is amazing. With BU it should be similar with a 4out lineup. You need guys like Vital to be facilitators bc he will never be guarded on the perimeter or even from the FT line. That means he has an open floor to make the pass that leads to the finish.

On defense the ball pressure still has moments of brilliance and then some possessions are awful AS COMPARED TO late Jan/early Feb. That is Drew's problem cuz I do not blame the players.

All I am saying is that if you look down from 30K feet lately this looks like a .500 team. From 500 feet the reasons are numerous and I do not accept the "being tired and beat up" excuse bc everybody is this time of year. I am not diminishing what this team has done this season. It will get them a great seed. I have stated many times that we are on the same level as KU but I do not think we are at this time and this is the WRONG time to have a slump.

I certainly hope the next few days of rest and recovery pay off giving them time to fix the issues. I am sure you agree. Remeber the Ekpe Udoh team just got better and better down the stretch and were a charge away against Acy vs. Duke from going to the FF which Duke won. This team has not shown me that in the last 5 games. I don't disagree that injuries to key players have contributed to that, but great teams find a way to overcome. It's just like in the stock market you have to adjust to the environment and you will be wrong probably half the time if not more. But when you are right you make the most of it and when you are wrong you make it a minor error and move on. That's the winning formula for this team.

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Not every team has lost four of the players in its eight-man rotation to injury for significant parts or all of key games down the stretch. That is a fallacy that you and others need to stop spreading. If you don't think our injuries have a causal effect on the issues you raise here, then you're not paying attention.

We were great early in the season because we were at full strength and every player was playing the role he was groomed/hand-picked to play. Injuries have shot our rotations all to **** since Macio went down.

And yes, we will have to find a way to overcome that to reach our goals this season. But when you lose one player after another over a three-week stretch, it's impossible to set a consistent rotation. Every time we've tried to make an adjustment, a new injury has forced us to make another.

The bottom line is we need a couple of guys to get and stay healthy and find a rhythm by tournament time. We can't make a deep run without Macio Teague and Mark Vital being a significant part of it or Flo Thamba (bless his heart) playing heavy minutes at the five.

bear2be2 said:

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Thanks for the following DM, IowaBear: "Do you even have $100 to bet? I can't imagine it's easy having a steady income being 40 and living in the parents basement."

So I guess that's a no?

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Are there basements in TX?

I was at the game and would like to offer up a few opinions for those who care to hear them.

1. The home court advantage that WVU enjoys absolutely cannot be overlooked. I've seen Baylor play in Lawrence, but the coliseum in Morgantown was even louder from what I can recall. The officiating was really lopsided in favor of the mountaineers. I knew that would be the case, but watching it unfold in real time was incredibly frustrating. I truly believe an aggressive and vocal crowd can influence basketball refs. The Colleseum seemed to be about 90% capacity and there were 2-3 time I wanted earplugs. If you have the chance, I strongly recommend a trip to Morgantown.

2. Our offense leaves so much to be desired. We had multiple turnovers on lazy/forced bounce passes and twice had the ball taken out of our hands on screen/hand-offs. I don't have much of a take on why Butler/Bandoo/Mitchell/Teague/Mayer have had such a hard time making 3's and free throws, but the fact remains that they have just not been able to consistently take the lid off the basket. Our offensive strategy seems to be trying to find a 1 on 1 mismatch after some motion. I'm not a fan of that strategy, but what do I know. I definitely don't get paid millions of dollars to coach basketball. I would like to see us run 4-5 set plays a few times each game just to open up the game on that end of the court. I'm throwing in the towel on expecting these guy so to start draining jump shots and free throws. Bear in mind, I still 100% believe this team can win it all and our offensive struggles can be overcome with defense and a few slight adjustments.

3. This teams defense is still ELITE. It would have been nice to see coach drew call for some zone for a change of pace, but overall, we played great defense. When Freddy got called for his 4th pf, the game was all but sealed as a WVU win. We really seem to struggle with the high-middle ball screen with a four guard lineup and a quality big like Big-O. Of course, I have to do a callback to the officiating as we were really handcuffed in the ability to match up with WVU in term of physicality. My seats were baseline fairly high up, so if anyone watching the broadcast thinks I'm out of line wrt the officiating, please correct me. There are so many factors to consider, but we did look 1/4 step slower than normal. Was that a function of injury? Fatigue? WVU defense? I don't know. It's probably some combination of all the above.

Unrelated: B2B and Dana are my two favorite posters in the game threads. Will y'all please put Iowa and wuzzy on ignore? Those guys suck so badly and I can't understand why anyone engages them.

We sick dooo bad for saying our offense blows and we suck at FTs while still voicing that the team has had a wonderful year. Got it . Also answer these 2 questions. Is our FT shooting hurting this team? Are we a good offense?

I forgot to add my favorite part of the game. Mayer got booed by the crowd every time he touched the ball. Loudly. I laughed my ass off the second time it happened and asked my buddy if the mountaineer fans remembers him from the game in Waco.

ColoradoGRN&GLD said:

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I was at the game and would like to offer up a few opinions for those who care to hear them.

1. The home court advantage that WVU enjoys absolutely cannot be overlooked. I've seen Baylor play in Lawrence, but the coliseum in Morgantown was even louder from what I can recall. The officiating was really lopsided in favor of the mountaineers. I knew that would be the case, but watching it unfold in real time was incredibly frustrating. I truly believe an aggressive and vocal crowd can influence basketball refs. The Colleseum seemed to be about 90% capacity and there were 2-3 time I wanted earplugs. If you have the chance, I strongly recommend a trip to Morgantown.

2. Our offense leaves so much to be desired. We had multiple turnovers on lazy/forced bounce passes and twice had the ball taken out of our hands on screen/hand-offs. I don't have much of a take on why Butler/Bandoo/Mitchell/Teague/Mayer have had such a hard time making 3's and free throws, but the fact remains that they have just not been able to consistently take the lid off the basket. Our offensive strategy seems to be trying to find a 1 on 1 mismatch after some motion. I'm not a fan of that strategy, but what do I know. I definitely don't get paid millions of dollars to coach basketball. I would like to see us run 4-5 set plays a few times each game just to open up the game on that end of the court. I'm throwing in the towel on expecting these guy so to start draining jump shots and free throws. Bear in mind, I still 100% believe this team can win it all and our offensive struggles can be overcome with defense and a few slight adjustments.

3. This teams defense is still ELITE. It would have been nice to see coach drew call for some zone for a change of pace, but overall, we played great defense. When Freddy got called for his 4th pf, the game was all but sealed as a WVU win. We really seem to struggle with the high-middle ball screen with a four guard lineup and a quality big like Big-O. Of course, I have to do a callback to the officiating as we were really handcuffed in the ability to match up with WVU in term of physicality. My seats were baseline fairly high up, so if anyone watching the broadcast thinks I'm out of line wrt the officiating, please correct me. There are so many factors to consider, but we did look 1/4 step slower than normal. Was that a function of injury? Fatigue? WVU defense? I don't know. It's probably some combination of all the above.

Unrelated: B2B and Dana are my two favorite posters in the game threads. Will y'all please put Iowa and wuzzy on ignore? Those guys suck so badly and I can't understand why anyone engages them.

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Then you don't understand anything about X's and O's. Honestly, it is nothing personal but is the way I see BU. You cannot put on IGNORE the fact that this team has regressed. I NEVER said we don't have a chance t win it all, but that will have to be after we regroup, rest and go at it again like it is late Jan/early Feb/ you cannot ignore that cuz it is true. You make good points and bc I agree with the change of pace via zone, but blaming any part of the officiating is bunk. Everybody wants to do that. The only time that makes any sense is on a game winning possession or bad calls in the last 2 minutes. Otherwise, go find better officials. The reason you don't care for me or Iowa B is because we speak the facts and that is the only thing that is true,

And tell me what offense we are running again? I'd really like to know.

bear2be2 said:

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wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

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I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

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Please define "oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles." There is always a 30K foot look down and a 500 foot look down. From 30K feet it is obvious this team is having major issues scoring. From 500 feet they are not running the offense they were earlier in the year when we were spacing the floor and guys are moving and attacking. Too many times recently we are penetrating and then doing nothing with that unlike KU who KNOWS where the open guys are OR they finish themselves. Their spacing and passing is amazing. With BU it should be similar with a 4out lineup. You need guys like Vital to be facilitators bc he will never be guarded on the perimeter or even from the FT line. That means he has an open floor to make the pass that leads to the finish.

On defense the ball pressure still has moments of brilliance and then some possessions are awful AS COMPARED TO late Jan/early Feb. That is Drew's problem cuz I do not blame the players.

All I am saying is that if you look down from 30K feet lately this looks like a .500 team. From 500 feet the reasons are numerous and I do not accept the "being tired and beat up" excuse bc everybody is this time of year. I am not diminishing what this team has done this season. It will get them a great seed. I have stated many times that we are on the same level as KU but I do not think we are at this time and this is the WRONG time to have a slump.

I certainly hope the next few days of rest and recovery pay off giving them time to fix the issues. I am sure you agree. Remeber the Ekpe Udoh team just got better and better down the stretch and were a charge away against Acy vs. Duke from going to the FF which Duke won. This team has not shown me that in the last 5 games. I don't disagree that injuries to key players have contributed to that, but great teams find a way to overcome. It's just like in the stock market you have to adjust to the environment and you will be wrong probably half the time if not more. But when you are right you make the most of it and when you are wrong you make it a minor error and move on. That's the winning formula for this team.

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Not every team has lost four of the players in its eight-man rotation to injury for significant parts or all of key games down the stretch. That is a fallacy that you and others need to stop spreading. If you don't think our injuries have a causal effect on the issues you raise here, then you're not paying attention.

We were great early in the season because we were at full strength and every player was playing the role he was groomed/hand-picked to play. Injuries have shot our rotations all to **** since Macio went down.

And yes, we will have to find a way to overcome that to reach our goals this season. But when you lose one player after another over a three-week stretch, it's impossible to set a consistent rotation. Every time we've tried to make an adjustment, a new injury has forced us to make another.

The bottom line is we need a couple of guys to get and stay healthy and find a rhythm by tournament time. We can't make a deep run without Macio Teague and Mark Vital being a significant part of it or Flo Thamba (bless his heart) playing heavy minutes at the five.

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Great stuff bear2be2...that is more like what I want to hear instead of personal BS. I may disagree with you in some aspects but for the most part your points are well-taken. If you are going to say that is a major cause of our regression i.e. injuries, then you also have to admit that the main reason we lost to KU at the Phog is because Dotson was injured too. Otherwise they win. True, we played better and Self used that game to make the change to also running a 4 out offense, but if Dotson is NOT hurt that game would have been way closer, right?

wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

---

I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

---

Please define "oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles." There is always a 30K foot look down and a 500 foot look down. From 30K feet it is obvious this team is having major issues scoring. From 500 feet they are not running the offense they were earlier in the year when we were spacing the floor and guys are moving and attacking. Too many times recently we are penetrating and then doing nothing with that unlike KU who KNOWS where the open guys are OR they finish themselves. Their spacing and passing is amazing. With BU it should be similar with a 4out lineup. You need guys like Vital to be facilitators bc he will never be guarded on the perimeter or even from the FT line. That means he has an open floor to make the pass that leads to the finish.

On defense the ball pressure still has moments of brilliance and then some possessions are awful AS COMPARED TO late Jan/early Feb. That is Drew's problem cuz I do not blame the players.

All I am saying is that if you look down from 30K feet lately this looks like a .500 team. From 500 feet the reasons are numerous and I do not accept the "being tired and beat up" excuse bc everybody is this time of year. I am not diminishing what this team has done this season. It will get them a great seed. I have stated many times that we are on the same level as KU but I do not think we are at this time and this is the WRONG time to have a slump.

I certainly hope the next few days of rest and recovery pay off giving them time to fix the issues. I am sure you agree. Remeber the Ekpe Udoh team just got better and better down the stretch and were a charge away against Acy vs. Duke from going to the FF which Duke won. This team has not shown me that in the last 5 games. I don't disagree that injuries to key players have contributed to that, but great teams find a way to overcome. It's just like in the stock market you have to adjust to the environment and you will be wrong probably half the time if not more. But when you are right you make the most of it and when you are wrong you make it a minor error and move on. That's the winning formula for this team.

---

Not every team has lost four of the players in its eight-man rotation to injury for significant parts or all of key games down the stretch. That is a fallacy that you and others need to stop spreading. If you don't think our injuries have a causal effect on the issues you raise here, then you're not paying attention.

We were great early in the season because we were at full strength and every player was playing the role he was groomed/hand-picked to play. Injuries have shot our rotations all to **** since Macio went down.

And yes, we will have to find a way to overcome that to reach our goals this season. But when you lose one player after another over a three-week stretch, it's impossible to set a consistent rotation. Every time we've tried to make an adjustment, a new injury has forced us to make another.

The bottom line is we need a couple of guys to get and stay healthy and find a rhythm by tournament time. We can't make a deep run without Macio Teague and Mark Vital being a significant part of it or Flo Thamba (bless his heart) playing heavy minutes at the five.

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Great stuff bear2be2...that is more like what I want to hear instead of personal BS. I may disagree with you in some aspects but for the most part your points are well-taken. If you are going to say that is a major cause of our regression i.e. injuries, then you also have to admit that the main reason we lost to KU at the Phog is because Dotson was injured too. Otherwise they win. True, we played better and Self used that game to make the change to also running a 4 out offense, but if Dotson is NOT hurt that game would have been way closer, right?

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Dotson's absence had an impact, no question. But it is extremely presumptuous to say they win if he finishes that game. First, he played 28 minutes that day and made almost no impact. Second, his presence wouldn't have had an appreciable impact on Azubuike, who got completely bottled up that day.

We won that first matchup because they weren't ready for the way we defended them. They had zero answers for what we were throwing at them, and it showed. A healthy Dotson wouldn't have changed that.

They made their adjustments and outplayed us in the rematch. But it is just false to suggest that Dotson playing seven fewer minutes than normal accounted for a 12-point deficit that was actually wider than that in the final minute.

bear2be2 said:

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wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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wuzzybear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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No reason to sugarcoat this one. Outcoached, outhustled, outplayed in this game. Always thought Morgantown was gonna be a difficult place to win, but our play over the past couple of weeks outside a gimme game at home against a horrific K State team has finally caused me to raise the Concerned flag. Still not ready to throw up the Panic flag yet, but we're just not clicking in several areas the way were earlier in the year. Sure hope we didn't peak at the wrong time. Injuries explain some of this, but it's not the only reason. Maybe some of it is just that conference teams always know you better than anyone else. I hope that's the reason. We'll soon find out I guess.

---

I think it's fine to be concerned. What I have a problem with is guys like wuzzy and Iowa oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles and using them to diminish what this team has done this season.

There are a lot of factors that go into our recent play, and I think you do a pretty good job of summarizing them here. I'm a both/and guy, not either/or. It's been a perfect storm, particularly with the injuries, which have impacted half of our eight-man rotation and clearly affected this team's greatest strength: its chemistry.

---

Please define "oversimplifying the causes of our recent struggles." There is always a 30K foot look down and a 500 foot look down. From 30K feet it is obvious this team is having major issues scoring. From 500 feet they are not running the offense they were earlier in the year when we were spacing the floor and guys are moving and attacking. Too many times recently we are penetrating and then doing nothing with that unlike KU who KNOWS where the open guys are OR they finish themselves. Their spacing and passing is amazing. With BU it should be similar with a 4out lineup. You need guys like Vital to be facilitators bc he will never be guarded on the perimeter or even from the FT line. That means he has an open floor to make the pass that leads to the finish.

On defense the ball pressure still has moments of brilliance and then some possessions are awful AS COMPARED TO late Jan/early Feb. That is Drew's problem cuz I do not blame the players.

All I am saying is that if you look down from 30K feet lately this looks like a .500 team. From 500 feet the reasons are numerous and I do not accept the "being tired and beat up" excuse bc everybody is this time of year. I am not diminishing what this team has done this season. It will get them a great seed. I have stated many times that we are on the same level as KU but I do not think we are at this time and this is the WRONG time to have a slump.

I certainly hope the next few days of rest and recovery pay off giving them time to fix the issues. I am sure you agree. Remeber the Ekpe Udoh team just got better and better down the stretch and were a charge away against Acy vs. Duke from going to the FF which Duke won. This team has not shown me that in the last 5 games. I don't disagree that injuries to key players have contributed to that, but great teams find a way to overcome. It's just like in the stock market you have to adjust to the environment and you will be wrong probably half the time if not more. But when you are right you make the most of it and when you are wrong you make it a minor error and move on. That's the winning formula for this team.

---

Not every team has lost four of the players in its eight-man rotation to injury for significant parts or all of key games down the stretch. That is a fallacy that you and others need to stop spreading. If you don't think our injuries have a causal effect on the issues you raise here, then you're not paying attention.

We were great early in the season because we were at full strength and every player was playing the role he was groomed/hand-picked to play. Injuries have shot our rotations all to **** since Macio went down.

And yes, we will have to find a way to overcome that to reach our goals this season. But when you lose one player after another over a three-week stretch, it's impossible to set a consistent rotation. Every time we've tried to make an adjustment, a new injury has forced us to make another.

The bottom line is we need a couple of guys to get and stay healthy and find a rhythm by tournament time. We can't make a deep run without Macio Teague and Mark Vital being a significant part of it or Flo Thamba (bless his heart) playing heavy minutes at the five.

---

Great stuff bear2be2...that is more like what I want to hear instead of personal BS. I may disagree with you in some aspects but for the most part your points are well-taken. If you are going to say that is a major cause of our regression i.e. injuries, then you also have to admit that the main reason we lost to KU at the Phog is because Dotson was injured too. Otherwise they win. True, we played better and Self used that game to make the change to also running a 4 out offense, but if Dotson is NOT hurt that game would have been way closer, right?

---

Dotson's absence had an impact, no question. But it is extremely presumptuous to say they win if he finishes that game. First, he played 28 minutes that day and made almost no impact. Second, his presence wouldn't have had an appreciable impact on Azubuike, who got completely bottled up that day.

We won that first matchup because they weren't ready for the way we defended them. They had zero answers for what we were throwing at them, and it showed. A healthy Dotson wouldn't have changed that.

They made their adjustments and outplayed us in the rematch. But it is just false to suggest that Dotson playing seven fewer minutes than normal accounted for a 12-point deficit that was actually wider than that in the final minute.

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Good summation. KU definitely caught flat footed in Lawrence. However, we did win a good one that day. Using the eye test, over last three weeks opponents are hitting the boards harder and limiting our offensive/defense rebound production.