nein51 said:

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fadskier said:

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People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.

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The "employers take advantage of them" crowd can shove it up their asses. Don't like it? Finish school… learn how to read. Putting lettuce on a taco is just not skilled labor though apparently too hard for some people to get right 100% of the time.

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Looks like processing nuance must be like putting lettuce on tacos for you.

nein51 said:

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TechDawgMc said:

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One thing that really doesn't change much is the basic principle that you get what you pay for. I've watched stores in the post covid world. Ones like CFA, PTerrys, In-n-Out who pay pretty well and treat their employees decently, have no trouble getting good employees and the stores are almost always well run. The ones who are still trying to pay minimum wage and who treat employees like dirt struggle to keep the store open other than drive through.

Nine times out of ten (maybe more), if a store gives lousy service, the fault is with management/ownership.

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The Pizza Hut near near my house pays $15/hr to the staff and $25/hr to the drivers and they suck so hard they now contract with doordash to deliver. It's not a pay issue.

The average hourly wage at CFA is right at $16. More than 50% of their employees make 25-40k. Those kids you see there make an average of $10.50/hr.

Let's not make this CFA paying people $20/hr while BK is paying $8. It's just not reality.

I bet if you look at the demographics of a CFA location and a Popeyes location you'll damned sure find a difference.

I live hood adjacent. I'll happily take you to the Popeyes 4 blocks from my house then we can venture to the one 9 miles down the road and we can play "spot the differences". I agree it's almost often about management and ownership…and the expectations of the customer.

FTR the night crew of the BK near my house kills it. Never lets me down.

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Enforcing standards takes money. This whole thing about Popeyes being "hood" and that you can't expect good service from workers in the hood (hey, you're the one who brought this up) sounds like it's from a Dave Chapelle sketch or something. I've been to a couple fast food places in the hood that were on point

It's really about what they pay their management. I have a relative that was a manager at Chick-fil-A for a few years and was paid very well by fast food standards, and in turn, he was expected to hold his store to strict standards set by corporate. And at Chick-fil-A, if an owner is not following said standards, they can get their store taken from them. I have seen it happen. I'll admit I don't know for sure, but I highly, highly doubt a Popeyes franchise has ever been taken from one of its owners for not following standards. I suspect you would literally have to be using it as a front to cook meth or something. some fast food places pay more than other fast food places. When the job is to take orders and assemble a sandwich, that's pretty universal, so where do you think an employee is going to flock to? Assembling a sandwich here is the same thing as assembling a sandwich there, you may just get paid a couple dollars an hour more to do it. The Popeyes and Chick-fil-A in my town are about two minutes from each other. The Popeyes literally can't keep its doors open, and it's drive-through only. The canes right across the street is open and gets people through the drive-through very quickly. Popeyes has like two employees inside, canes has like 15. That's the real difference, but I guarantee you that canes is paying more. Also, again, I reiterate that many of these fast food places absolutely love being "short staffed." Does anyone really think that the powers that be at Popeyes care that people are waiting a long time for their food? They obviously don't, because it's a near universal issue with Popeyes, whether the store located in the hood or a white part of town, and no matter what skin color their employees or clientele are. It's a Management issue which is itself an ownership issue

I guarantee you the Popeyes near my house and the one 9 miles away pay exactly the same. One is open and clean. The other hasn't had the front open in forever and is filthy and takes eternity.

The KFC across the street has pretty good service. They pay almost identically.

Next time you're in the area hit me up. We can go wherever you want to test whatever theory you like. I'm always down for some fast food showdown.

I don't eat much fast food, but as noted above, the service/cleanliness seems pretty aligned with how well they are managed/staffed (which means owner spending).

The few Cane's I've seen are well oiled machines, including the one near my home and I'm always pretty happy by Whataburger locations I might it up while on the road through the state.


But the average BK or TB is a roll of the die... and I'll never eat at a Subway again.. yikes!

The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

Much of the increase in the cost of living relates to healthcare, housing, and education. All areas where good intentions (such a poor way to evaluate a program) have backfired and raised the cost of the good.


If you are working in fast food, your primary problem is a lack of skills to bring to the market.

Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

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There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

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There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

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there will always be a need for a good welder

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

---

There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

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there will always be a need for a good welder

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Yes, and a lot of easy welding will soon be done by machines.

Porteroso said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

---

There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

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there will always be a need for a good welder

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Yes, and a lot of easy welding will soon be done by machines.

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a lot of easy welding already is. It is the custom, one-off stuff that machines can't do yet.

Machines are great for manufacturing. For repairs, not so much.

Porteroso said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

---

There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

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there will always be a need for a good welder

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Yes, and a lot of easy welding will soon be done by machines.

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No. A lot of manufacturing welding is already done by machines. That's the only place that makes any sense for mechanized welding.

Inverter welders make every day welding "easy" depending on the application.

You're not going to get a machine to do every day welding. Welding in the field requires someone take the welder to the field, at that point you might as well weld. Welding is as much art as skill.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Porteroso said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

---

There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

---

there will always be a need for a good welder

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Yes, and a lot of easy welding will soon be done by machines.

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a lot of easy welding already is. It is the custom, one-off stuff that machines can't do yet.

Machines are great for manufacturing. For repairs, not so much.

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Correct. When the machine can be set up for the same job over and over again it's great.

An electrician or plumber will make more out of trade school than a BBA graduate from Baylor. And, if they are decent, will potentially see their income increase faster as well. However, there is a lower ceiling to their wages than a BU graduate (depending on Baylor graduate career path) unless they start their own business.

BaylorGuy314 said:

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An electrician or plumber will make more out of trade school than a BBA graduate from Baylor. And, if they are decent, will potentially see their income increase faster as well. However, there is a lower ceiling to their wages than a BU graduate (depending on Baylor graduate career path) unless they start their own business.

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They are also, literally, never out of work unless they want to be.

The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

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And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

nein51 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Porteroso said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Porteroso said:

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The decline of wages relative to cost of living, probably tracks well with the decline of competent minimum wage employees.

It seems that simple to me, but maybe there is a tad bit of truth to the whole kids being lazy thing. All aspects of society swing on a pendulum, and maybe that's where it is at. But jobs and the future is a little uncertain right now. At a time when education is dropping in quality more than ever before on America, we are starting to have some of the most menial jobs replaced with automation. It probably creates jobs in programming too, but again, education.

If you aren't highly educated, it is probably difficult to get excited about your long term prospects. And that I understand, because long term prospects for the less fortunate are pretty unknown.

---

There is a shortage of highly skilled tradespeople. Considering the additional earning years from not going to school, there is a good chance they will surpass many mid-level management jobs requiring a degree for a career. Not getting rich, but better off than many college grads.

---

there will always be a need for a good welder

---

Yes, and a lot of easy welding will soon be done by machines.

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a lot of easy welding already is. It is the custom, one-off stuff that machines can't do yet.

Machines are great for manufacturing. For repairs, not so much.

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Correct. When the machine can be set up for the same job over and over again it's great.

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That's the essence of automation. The more unusual or remote a job is, and the more creativity is required to address the need, the less suitable the machine will be.

Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

---

And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

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Funny, back in the 1960s there was a type of restaurant which gained interest for a while; the automat restaurant. You just went to the machine, picked what you wanted and paid the machine and it heated it up for you and sent it to the window where you picked it up.

Didn't last. Turns out people get tired of that real fast. A restaurant requires a certain minimum level of human presence, especially if it's charging anything but bargain prices.

Oldbear83 said:

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Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

---

And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

---

Funny, back in the 1960s there was a type of restaurant which gained interest for a while; the automat restaurant. You just went to the machine, picked what you wanted and paid the machine and it heated it up for you and sent it to the window where you picked it up.

Didn't last. Turns out people get tired of that real fast. A restaurant requires a certain minimum level of human presence, especially if it's charging anything but bargain prices.

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Eliminating expenses ( i.e. bargain prices) is probably a key to an automated drive thru success... It would probably require an on site person for live interfacing customer service issues...Rather than going to restaurants, many folks are now using uber , door dash, etc. to get food straight to the door...somewhat eliminating human customer interaction in ordering/food prep...Some fast food joints , not the majority, that I've experienced recently, really didn't offer a pleasurable experience...surely my choice as to whether I return or not. Whataburger has been a steady,good quality meal in my visits.

What is up with this recent trend of making people in the drive-through pull around and park somewhere at the side of the building? Like, years ago you might be asked to do that when the drive-through was slammed, but I get asked to do it all the time when the store is mostly empty. I was asked to do it at Taco Bell the other day, and I swear to you that there was literally one other customer in the store, and no one in the drive-through behind me. And I wouldn't mind, but in my experience, you have a ~33% chance that you'll be forgotten about. There's also something about being asked to effectively leave the store without receiving the product that you just paid for that irks me

No Quarterback said:

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What is up with this recent trend of making people in the drive-through pull around and park somewhere at the side of the building? Like, years ago you might be asked to do that when the drive-through was slammed, but I get asked to do it all the time when the store is mostly empty. I was asked to do it at Taco Bell the other day, and I swear to you that there was literally one other customer in the store, and no one in the drive-through behind me. And I wouldn't mind, but in my experience, you have a ~33% chance that you'll be forgotten about. There's also something about being asked to effectively leave the store without receiving the product that you just paid for that irks me

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Actually, I think this is a good thing. In order to increase the quality many cook when ordered and do not have it sitting there waiting under a heat lamp. The trade-off is increased time.

Keyser Soze said:

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No Quarterback said:

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What is up with this recent trend of making people in the drive-through pull around and park somewhere at the side of the building? Like, years ago you might be asked to do that when the drive-through was slammed, but I get asked to do it all the time when the store is mostly empty. I was asked to do it at Taco Bell the other day, and I swear to you that there was literally one other customer in the store, and no one in the drive-through behind me. And I wouldn't mind, but in my experience, you have a ~33% chance that you'll be forgotten about. There's also something about being asked to effectively leave the store without receiving the product that you just paid for that irks me

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Actually, I think this is a good thing. In order to increase the quality many cook when ordered and do not have it sitting there waiting under a heat lamp. The trade-off is increased time.

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You may be right, but I think it's a staffing issue. I don't think you necessarily have to choose between fast and fresh. I would point to the well staffed, well ran places like Chick-fil-A, In-N-Out, canes etc. it's possible to get it done

Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

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And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

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I thought that was what McDonalds did.

No Quarterback said:

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What is up with this recent trend of making people in the drive-through pull around and park somewhere at the side of the building? Like, years ago you might be asked to do that when the drive-through was slammed, but I get asked to do it all the time when the store is mostly empty. I was asked to do it at Taco Bell the other day, and I swear to you that there was literally one other customer in the store, and no one in the drive-through behind me. And I wouldn't mind, but in my experience, you have a ~33% chance that you'll be forgotten about. There's also something about being asked to effectively leave the store without receiving the product that you just paid for that irks me

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The answer is really easy. It messes with their metrics. You're monitored in the drive through. They have certain times to hit. Having you pull out of the drive through bypasses the "how long the customer waited" metric.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

---

And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

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I thought that was what McDonalds did.

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I believe they did open one several months ago in Fort Worth...Curious as to how the business is going..If it can work in Cowtown, I would think they might have something...

Oldbear83 said:

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Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

---

And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

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Funny, back in the 1960s there was a type of restaurant which gained interest for a while; the automat restaurant. You just went to the machine, picked what you wanted and paid the machine and it heated it up for you and sent it to the window where you picked it up.

Didn't last. Turns out people get tired of that real fast. A restaurant requires a certain minimum level of human presence, especially if it's charging anything but bargain prices.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_%26_Hardart

curtpenn said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Bexar Pitts said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The ones really hurting are the not-pricy traditional restaurants. ie) Apple Bees, Ceddars,

They are being replaced by counter-pay food with no wait staff. ie) Torchy's Tacos, Five-Guys, - The counter-pay is also taking away from fast food.

---

And along those lines..are we headed in only a few years to Burg-Vana? Food given out via automated glorified vending machines? Minimal humanoid expenses?

---

Funny, back in the 1960s there was a type of restaurant which gained interest for a while; the automat restaurant. You just went to the machine, picked what you wanted and paid the machine and it heated it up for you and sent it to the window where you picked it up.

Didn't last. Turns out people get tired of that real fast. A restaurant requires a certain minimum level of human presence, especially if it's charging anything but bargain prices.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_%26_Hardart

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I actually went into a Taco Bell a few months back where they had those self check out type screens and no one in the store. when I tried to order at the front, the staff made me order on the screen. Didn't understand that one. But yes, I definitely think fast food is headed that direction; I'm sure that these corporations would love to automate their food production. Think about it: a machine doesn't call in sick to work, it doesn't come into work late, it doesn't take vacations, it doesn't harass employees, file for unemployment, or do anything else that creates liability for the company, it's always consistent given proper maintenance etc. etc. The upfront cost will be substantial, but I think it happens in my lifetime

I’ve visually confirmed these findings at Walmart.

Our “food” is garbage. https://t.co/eWCqmXqGLw

— Battle Beagle (@HarmlessYardDog) July 15, 2023