My son has added several private schools to his list: Wayland, East Texas, UMHB, Oklahoma Baptist, and Ouachita Baptist. Baylor is at least $20,000+ more than these schools so my alma mater is out. We will tour all of these schools but any information on them would be appreciated.

I have Baylor friends who have a kid at UMHB - they have said great things about it

I suggest you reconsider your situation/decision: Assuming your son will be seeking financial aid, you'll be going through the FAFSA process. Here is a broad-brush statement--When you complete the FAFSA, the program will give you an EFC (Expected Family Contribution). This means that the family is expected to come up with X dollars whether your son goes to MCC, Baylor or MIT. It's basically up to the school, then, to come up with some sort of financial aid package consisting of grants, loans, work study, etc.

I was advised by a guy who works for U. S. Dept. of Education--NEVER don't apply nor consider a particular school for lack of ability to pay; apply, get accepted then work closely with the school to figure out how to make it happen.

BaylorGrad&Dad said:

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I suggest you reconsider your situation/decision: Assuming your son will be seeking financial aid, you'll be going through the FAFSA process. Here is a broad-brush statement--When you complete the FAFSA, the program will give you an EFC (Expected Family Contribution). This means that the family is expected to come up with X dollars whether your son goes to MCC, Baylor or MIT. It's basically up to the school, then, to come up with some sort of financial aid package consisting of grants, loans, work study, etc.

I was advised by a guy who works for U. S. Dept. of Education--NEVER don't apply nor consider a particular school for lack of ability to pay; apply, get accepted then work closely with the school to figure out how to make it happen.

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My eldest two went to state supported schools...one got a full ride, so that was easy. We completed FAFSA for both, got nothing. Another thing I need to add here is that he wants to be a college football coach (ultimate goal) and I am having a hard time spending $35,000-60,000 per year to become a coach when a state school like Tarleton, Sam Houston & others are about $12,000-15,000 per year.

I think we'd desire a Christian education and I certainly won't prevent him from applying to Baylor but he is going to want to "volunteer" with the football program to help get his foot in the door and get an understanding of the college coaching career...not too sure a big school or even Sam Houston or Tarleton would need/allow that, but he will ask about at every school he applies to.

Hardin Simmons was great whe we couldn't afford Baylor. Might want to check it out

fadskier said:

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BaylorGrad&Dad said:

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I suggest you reconsider your situation/decision: Assuming your son will be seeking financial aid, you'll be going through the FAFSA process. Here is a broad-brush statement--When you complete the FAFSA, the program will give you an EFC (Expected Family Contribution). This means that the family is expected to come up with X dollars whether your son goes to MCC, Baylor or MIT. It's basically up to the school, then, to come up with some sort of financial aid package consisting of grants, loans, work study, etc.

I was advised by a guy who works for U. S. Dept. of Education--NEVER don't apply nor consider a particular school for lack of ability to pay; apply, get accepted then work closely with the school to figure out how to make it happen.

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My eldest two went to state supported schools...one got a full ride, so that was easy. We completed FAFSA for both, got nothing. Another thing I need to add here is that he wants to be a college football coach (ultimate goal) and I am having a hard time spending $35,000-60,000 per year to become a coach when a state school like Tarleton, Sam Houston & others are about $12,000-15,000 per year.

I think we'd desire a Christian education and I certainly won't prevent him from applying to Baylor but he is going to want to "volunteer" with the football program to help get his foot in the door and get an understanding of the college coaching career...not too sure a big school or even Sam Houston or Tarleton would need/allow that, but he will ask about at every school he applies to.

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I went to Baylor because I wanted to be a lawyer. Along the way--I became a teacher. Private school is drastically overpaying for your education if you are going into education.

So, when you say coach--what kind (I read the goal--but what's plan B?):
1. The high school teacher who coaches football and maybe works his way to college and maybe dies in the same job he started 50 years later. Private school may be an overly expensive way to go.
2. College. There is no plan B. D3 may be a really good way to go. When I was getting may master's at a D3 school, I had to take an undergrad class to makeup for something I didn't need at Baylor. There was a kid in there who worked with the football team and he described it as the internship of a lifetime because he saw it all. And at a small school--they needed free help.

I didnt have a plan B. It was lawyer. I graduated and didnt have money for law school, so I had to invent plan B. Always have a plan B.

Before you line up a visit to Wayland send a PM to "highplains" (on this Board).

He runs that place!

Check out Harding in Searcy Arkansas. My nephew went there and liked it. Played football for a few years too. He started in 2007 and it was about $20k per year then.

VaeBear said:

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Check out Harding in Searcy Arkansas. My nephew went there and liked it. Played football for a few years too. He started in 2007 and it was about $20k per year then.

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Harding is an good school. I have a friend that went there. I won't allow my daughter to consider it because they have a Sing. Not getting dragged to one of those events. It is Church of Christ.

Hendrix College is better academically but is smaller. UMC rather than Church of Christ.

I have said this before on other threads but I truly believe it to be true. There is more to the value of a BU education than the sticker price. It may not work out in a CBA. However, there is no greater place on the planet of which I am aware to meet so many kids that have come from Christian backgrounds that value Christian principles. One of the things that my son who will be a freshman in the fall says is important is finding a Godly wife.

I am willing to stipulate that they can be found on any campus in the country but there are more intelligent/sucessful/attractive/eligible candidates per capita at Baylor than any other school if that is what you value.

fadskier said:

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My son has added several private schools to his list: Wayland, East Texas, UMHB, Oklahoma Baptist, and Ouachita Baptist. Baylor is at least $20,000+ more than these schools so my alma mater is out. We will tour all of these schools but any information on them would be appreciated.

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I've been on faculty at UMHB for about 20 years. The school has really come a long way in that time. Most students seem to love the campus and the environment. At this point, most of the schools have new (or at least newish) buildings to work in. There is a lot for students, especially for a school this size. The environment is also very good from a Christian school perspective. UMHB is committed to keeping a strong Christian emphasis, but has managed to avoid the acrimony that hit Baylor about that.

In terms of academics, there has been a lot of improvement over the time I've been here. There are a couple of schools with long term good reputations -- especially nursing and education. The EXSS folks in education have done some significant research work in recent years, while maintaining a good classroom reputation. Others, like business, have been improving steadily. It was not long before I started that business was still teaching stenograrphy. Now it's a robust business school with profs that have a lot of experience.

One of the strengths of the smaller, teaching oriented schools is that professors often get hired for their experience and teaching ability rather than their ability to do research. They often have a better sense of this is what it really looks like in the real world than the academic genius who got a Ph.D. and immediately went to doing teaching/research. The downside is that research is how a school improves its reputation in the academic environment. So you might get a better education but not exactly get credit for it. Still, if your son isn't looking to be an academic, that probably doesn't matter much.

If I can answer any specific questions, feel free to ask.

fadskier said:

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My son has added several private schools to his list: Wayland, East Texas, UMHB, Oklahoma Baptist, and Ouachita Baptist. Baylor is at least $20,000+ more than these schools so my alma mater is out. We will tour all of these schools but any information on them would be appreciated.

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really depends on major.

have a niece at UMHB and she is loving it and she's in their nursing program which is very strong.

Back in the day, Oklahoma Baptist had a pretty good undergrad business school

Gold Tron said:

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I have said this before on other threads but I truly believe it to be true. There is more to the value of a BU education than the sticker price. It may not work out in a CBA. However, there is no greater place on the planet of which I am aware to meet so many kids that have come from Christian backgrounds that value Christian principles. One of the things that my son who will be a freshman in the fall says is important is finding a Godly wife.

I am willing to stipulate that they can be found on any campus in the country but there are more intelligent/sucessful/attractive/eligible candidates per capita at Baylor than any other school if that is what you value.

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I liked the Christian atmosphere at Baylor. (A lot of the fundamentalists who tried to take over Baylor, as well as the non-fundamentalist Robert Sloan) thought that "Christian atmosphere" wasn't nearly enough.

Even so, while I continue to value my Baylor education, I found that Baylor actually damaged my faith and set me back. The hypocrisy was just too much. I eventually got past it, but Baylor didn't help.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

bubbadog said:

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Gold Tron said:

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I have said this before on other threads but I truly believe it to be true. There is more to the value of a BU education than the sticker price. It may not work out in a CBA. However, there is no greater place on the planet of which I am aware to meet so many kids that have come from Christian backgrounds that value Christian principles. One of the things that my son who will be a freshman in the fall says is important is finding a Godly wife.

I am willing to stipulate that they can be found on any campus in the country but there are more intelligent/sucessful/attractive/eligible candidates per capita at Baylor than any other school if that is what you value.

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I liked the Christian atmosphere at Baylor. (A lot of the fundamentalists who tried to take over Baylor, as well as the non-fundamentalist Robert Sloan) thought that "Christian atmosphere" wasn't nearly enough.

Even so, while I continue to value my Baylor education, I found that Baylor actually damaged my faith and set me back. The hypocrisy was just too much. I eventually got past it, but Baylor didn't help.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

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In regards to mileage, our paying freshmen to retake their SATs in order to boost our admission data may may us the Volkswagen of Christian Universities.

I had to lay out a fall semester due to a parent ' s illness. The result was going going year-around to catch up and keep my new aid. Baylor and Waco has a whole new feel when you attend in the summer and work off campus. At least it used to in the eighties. It felt more real. For some, Welcome Week never ended.

NoBSU said:

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bubbadog said:

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Gold Tron said:

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I have said this before on other threads but I truly believe it to be true. There is more to the value of a BU education than the sticker price. It may not work out in a CBA. However, there is no greater place on the planet of which I am aware to meet so many kids that have come from Christian backgrounds that value Christian principles. One of the things that my son who will be a freshman in the fall says is important is finding a Godly wife.

I am willing to stipulate that they can be found on any campus in the country but there are more intelligent/sucessful/attractive/eligible candidates per capita at Baylor than any other school if that is what you value.

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I liked the Christian atmosphere at Baylor. (A lot of the fundamentalists who tried to take over Baylor, as well as the non-fundamentalist Robert Sloan) thought that "Christian atmosphere" wasn't nearly enough.

Even so, while I continue to value my Baylor education, I found that Baylor actually damaged my faith and set me back. The hypocrisy was just too much. I eventually got past it, but Baylor didn't help.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

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In regards to mileage, our paying freshmen to retake their SATs in order to boost our admission data may may us the Volkswagen of Christian Universities.

I had to lay out a fall semester due to a parent ' s illness. The result was going going year-around to catch up and keep my new aid. Baylor and Waco has a whole new feel when you attend in the summer and work off campus. At least it used to in the eighties. It felt more real. For some, Welcome Week never ended.

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I never could afford to attend summer school (had to work in the summer to afford to go to BU the rest of the year), but I lived close enough that I could come to Waco on some evenings/weekends to be with friends who are there in the summer. You're right; it was a different feel and seemed very inviting. This was in the late '70s.

I loved my Baylor experience overall. But as far as a faith journey went, it was definitely 2-3 steps backward.

TechDawgMc said:

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fadskier said:

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My son has added several private schools to his list: Wayland, East Texas, UMHB, Oklahoma Baptist, and Ouachita Baptist. Baylor is at least $20,000+ more than these schools so my alma mater is out. We will tour all of these schools but any information on them would be appreciated.

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I've been on faculty at UMHB for about 20 years. The school has really come a long way in that time. Most students seem to love the campus and the environment. At this point, most of the schools have new (or at least newish) buildings to work in. There is a lot for students, especially for a school this size. The environment is also very good from a Christian school perspective. UMHB is committed to keeping a strong Christian emphasis, but has managed to avoid the acrimony that hit Baylor about that.

In terms of academics, there has been a lot of improvement over the time I've been here. There are a couple of schools with long term good reputations -- especially nursing and education. The EXSS folks in education have done some significant research work in recent years, while maintaining a good classroom reputation. Others, like business, have been improving steadily. It was not long before I started that business was still teaching stenograrphy. Now it's a robust business school with profs that have a lot of experience.

One of the strengths of the smaller, teaching oriented schools is that professors often get hired for their experience and teaching ability rather than their ability to do research. They often have a better sense of this is what it really looks like in the real world than the academic genius who got a Ph.D. and immediately went to doing teaching/research. The downside is that research is how a school improves its reputation in the academic environment. So you might get a better education but not exactly get credit for it. Still, if your son isn't looking to be an academic, that probably doesn't matter much.

If I can answer any specific questions, feel free to ask.

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He's looking at majoring in math.

SSadler said:

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Before you line up a visit to Wayland send a PM to "highplains" (on this Board).

He runs that place!

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I have sent him a PM.

BG&D is right that FAFSA will give you an idea of your initial financial responsibility for kiddo. And do apply to where the interest is. Our twins wanted to go to Baylor, applied and were accepted. Then we talked to everybody we could think of about scholarships, grants and loans (really didn't want them to have to go the loan route if we could help it). We were looking at an initial total cost of around $113,000 a year for both, and after discounting or subtracting everything we could come up with, it was still out of our price range. The only other place they wanted to explore was DBU. That was roughly 40g a year lower for both. It's where they are, still expensive and a semester by semester work in progress in covering costs.

They really like DBU but still say Baylor is their first choice and are thinking about trying to make a master's degree work there.

I had to put myself through Baylor. A one-time high school scholarship, two grants and working helped get me through, but it's just really expensive these days. I always read these discussions with interest.

It's not only Baylor's price, I don't think he'll get much of a chance in the athletic department at a D1 school. I'm thinking a smaller school will want/need volunteers and he can get his foot in the door.

NoBSU said:

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VaeBear said:

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Check out Harding in Searcy Arkansas. My nephew went there and liked it. Played football for a few years too. He started in 2007 and it was about $20k per year then.

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Harding is an good school. I have a friend that went there. I won't allow my daughter to consider it because they have a Sing. Not getting dragged to one of those events. It is Church of Christ.

Hendrix College is better academically but is smaller. UMC rather than Church of Christ.

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If you can afford Hendrix, you can afford Baylor. You'll need to order your Sing tickets early BTW.

fadskier said:

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TechDawgMc said:

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fadskier said:

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My son has added several private schools to his list: Wayland, East Texas, UMHB, Oklahoma Baptist, and Ouachita Baptist. Baylor is at least $20,000+ more than these schools so my alma mater is out. We will tour all of these schools but any information on them would be appreciated.

---

I've been on faculty at UMHB for about 20 years. The school has really come a long way in that time. Most students seem to love the campus and the environment. At this point, most of the schools have new (or at least newish) buildings to work in. There is a lot for students, especially for a school this size. The environment is also very good from a Christian school perspective. UMHB is committed to keeping a strong Christian emphasis, but has managed to avoid the acrimony that hit Baylor about that.

In terms of academics, there has been a lot of improvement over the time I've been here. There are a couple of schools with long term good reputations -- especially nursing and education. The EXSS folks in education have done some significant research work in recent years, while maintaining a good classroom reputation. Others, like business, have been improving steadily. It was not long before I started that business was still teaching stenograrphy. Now it's a robust business school with profs that have a lot of experience.

One of the strengths of the smaller, teaching oriented schools is that professors often get hired for their experience and teaching ability rather than their ability to do research. They often have a better sense of this is what it really looks like in the real world than the academic genius who got a Ph.D. and immediately went to doing teaching/research. The downside is that research is how a school improves its reputation in the academic environment. So you might get a better education but not exactly get credit for it. Still, if your son isn't looking to be an academic, that probably doesn't matter much.

If I can answer any specific questions, feel free to ask.

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He's looking at majoring in math.

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Math education or pure math? Not sure it matters much. As I said, Education dept is pretty strong. I don't know a lot about math but I've known a few of the honors students who majored/minored in it recently and they have really liked their teachers. We've had almost complete turnover of math teachers in the last 6-8 years, and my impression is that has really improved the quality overall.