ESPN announced today that 2.4 million watched the Baylor/BYU game.

7,969 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Mothballs
Bakersdozen
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Over the years, Alabama vs. UT will always draw 10M. However, Alabama vs. Villanova won't.

I think the Big 12 is in an excellent position to be a highly competitive league with strong games people will want to watch.

What an exciting game. What a great crowd. It is a budding rivalry. BYU looks ready to join the Big 12. Sure hope UT and OU are still in our league next year.
boognish_bear
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B12 conference getting the word out....

Aberzombie1892
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Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

As a general rule, 4 million is the benchmark for national ratings. When the networks consider what properties advertisers care about, they like that number. It's usually what they base projections on.
That's the benchmark for Big Ten and SEC programs ... or more accurately, blue blood or blue blood adjacent programs.

That's not what we are or are talking about here. And given that there are only a handful of games that are going to reach or exceed that number in most weeks, there's still value in programs that can consistently do a million plus. It's not Big Ten or SEC value, but ESPN and Fox need to fill a ton of programing, and they'll happily take a million plus viewers in their secondary and tertiary programing when the alterative is highlight shows that no one watches or G5 games that will do a fraction of that number.

The Big 12 still has a niche in modern college football. And that will be borne out in the league's next TV contract.
That's actually what worries me.
How so? I'm not following.
I'm worried that the Big 12 will be that niche. It doesn't matter whether the game falls at 2:30 (almost always a tough "regional" slot) or 9:00pm. There's no advertising return on a game that holds a small audience. That's not "small for the time slot". That's just categorically small. Few eyeballs means less demand from advertisers. It doesn't matter if it's 90% of the football viewers at the time.

If having the Big 12's current champion and #9 ranked team play a tough game against a ranked opponent in an unopposed slot garners 2.3million, that doesn't exactly have a provider ready to over-pay for a contract. They'd have a tough time convincing themselves that any of the league's games would threaten that 4million mark that bumps up advertising rates.

Executive Summary: Niche is not good. Mainstream gets paid.
Agreed, but, at the same time, there is no reason to worry about it because there is nothing that the Big 12 can do about it as this point. For Baylor, it has to rely on being good in order to drive any meaningful viewership, and, even in the cases where Baylor is ranked for regular season game, the ratings are generally not particularly great unless (1) the ratings are big for the opponent (i.e. UT/OU) or (2) the game has a major impact on the CFP chances of teams from other conferences - Baylor vs. OSU for Big 12 title, at the time it was played, impacted Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Notre Dame etc. as a win from OSU would have taken away a slot from that group.
Mr Tulip
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Aberzombie1892 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

As a general rule, 4 million is the benchmark for national ratings. When the networks consider what properties advertisers care about, they like that number. It's usually what they base projections on.
That's the benchmark for Big Ten and SEC programs ... or more accurately, blue blood or blue blood adjacent programs.

That's not what we are or are talking about here. And given that there are only a handful of games that are going to reach or exceed that number in most weeks, there's still value in programs that can consistently do a million plus. It's not Big Ten or SEC value, but ESPN and Fox need to fill a ton of programing, and they'll happily take a million plus viewers in their secondary and tertiary programing when the alterative is highlight shows that no one watches or G5 games that will do a fraction of that number.

The Big 12 still has a niche in modern college football. And that will be borne out in the league's next TV contract.
That's actually what worries me.
How so? I'm not following.
I'm worried that the Big 12 will be that niche. It doesn't matter whether the game falls at 2:30 (almost always a tough "regional" slot) or 9:00pm. There's no advertising return on a game that holds a small audience. That's not "small for the time slot". That's just categorically small. Few eyeballs means less demand from advertisers. It doesn't matter if it's 90% of the football viewers at the time.

If having the Big 12's current champion and #9 ranked team play a tough game against a ranked opponent in an unopposed slot garners 2.3million, that doesn't exactly have a provider ready to over-pay for a contract. They'd have a tough time convincing themselves that any of the league's games would threaten that 4million mark that bumps up advertising rates.

Executive Summary: Niche is not good. Mainstream gets paid.
Agreed, but, at the same time, there is no reason to worry about it because there is nothing that the Big 12 can do about it as this point. For Baylor, it has to rely on being good in order to drive any meaningful viewership, and, even in the cases where Baylor is ranked for regular season game, the ratings are generally not particularly great unless (1) the ratings are big for the opponent (i.e. UT/OU) or (2) the game has a major impact on the CFP chances of teams from other conferences - Baylor vs. OSU for Big 12 title, at the time it was played, impacted Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Notre Dame etc. as a win from OSU would have taken away a slot from that group.
This is the tough part. The Big 12 is set to play some of the most entertaining ball in the nation. The match ups on tap will make for a very competitive, diverse league. That part is for certain!

Certainly, if you have the opportunity to bring a large fan base, that's a good start. However, what matters most in bringing TV viewership seems to be the ability to affect the national title scene. Alabama has a lot of fans, for sure. People watch their games, though, because they're hoping to see #1 fall. tOSU, UGA, etc all have large alumni bases, but not near enough to support their viewership. People watch their games because their wins and losses affect college football's seasonal races.

Texas and OU are large brands. The annual game gets played at 11am because (1) that's the Big 12's national broadcast window (absent super-huge games) and (2) as intense as the rivalry is, there's not much chance this game will change the playoff race.

I'm concerned that the broadcast partners will break the bank for the top 2 properties (SEC and B1G) and only bid out the Big 12 and Pac 12 as afterthoughts.
Mothballs
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Mothballs said:

Mr Tulip said:

As a general rule, 4 million is the benchmark for national ratings. When the networks consider what properties advertisers care about, they like that number. It's usually what they base projections on.

Only four games met that benchmark in week two. Must be lots of disappointed advertisers.
Jack Bauer
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Dia del DougO
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One good thing about the 9:20 kickoff is that you're not competing with six other games in the same slot. It's more like competing against informercials for Crepe Erase and air fryers.
bear2be2
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Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

As a general rule, 4 million is the benchmark for national ratings. When the networks consider what properties advertisers care about, they like that number. It's usually what they base projections on.
That's the benchmark for Big Ten and SEC programs ... or more accurately, blue blood or blue blood adjacent programs.

That's not what we are or are talking about here. And given that there are only a handful of games that are going to reach or exceed that number in most weeks, there's still value in programs that can consistently do a million plus. It's not Big Ten or SEC value, but ESPN and Fox need to fill a ton of programing, and they'll happily take a million plus viewers in their secondary and tertiary programing when the alterative is highlight shows that no one watches or G5 games that will do a fraction of that number.

The Big 12 still has a niche in modern college football. And that will be borne out in the league's next TV contract.
That's actually what worries me.
How so? I'm not following.
I'm worried that the Big 12 will be that niche. It doesn't matter whether the game falls at 2:30 (almost always a tough "regional" slot) or 9:00pm. There's no advertising return on a game that holds a small audience. That's not "small for the time slot". That's just categorically small. Few eyeballs means less demand from advertisers. It doesn't matter if it's 90% of the football viewers at the time.

If having the Big 12's current champion and #9 ranked team play a tough game against a ranked opponent in an unopposed slot garners 2.3million, that doesn't exactly have a provider ready to over-pay for a contract. They'd have a tough time convincing themselves that any of the league's games would threaten that 4million mark that bumps up advertising rates.

Executive Summary: Niche is not good. Mainstream gets paid.
All sports programing is niche compared to just 10, 15, 20 years ago. None of these games are doing what they did when most households had cable.

And there just aren't as many "mainstream" games as you seem to believe. Only three schools averaged more than 4 million viewers in 2021, and only 15 averaged even 2 million. And those numbers match the ratings from 2015-19, when again only three schools averaged more than 4 million and again only 15 averaged as many as 2 million.

There is no "mainstream" and "niche." There are only blue bloods and non blue bloods. And there are waaaayyyyyy too many time slots to fill exclusively with games that will draw the types of numbers you're talking about.

ESPN and Fox need live programing. And they'll pay for it because the alternative loses money. No one watches non-live sports programing anymore.

Don't worry about the Big 12. It will get paid. Will it be SEC or Big Ten money? Of course not. But it will be comparable to what the remaining programs have been accustomed to earning annually and have had no problem running their athletic programs on for decades.
BaylorGrad09
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Another important note is that Baylor / BYU was the second highest cable game (beaten only by the ranked Florida / Kentucky midday on ESPN). It's really hard to beat broadcast channels even with the ubiquity of cable. The late night cable showing is a testament both to interest in the teams and the game.
atomicblast
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Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
BaylorGrad09
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atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.


While Fox seems like a good partner just to get away from ESPN, FS1 sucks to land on. Just not enough distribution, and not enough people even know it exists.
Southtxbear
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atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
. UH barely has a fan base. The city doesn't support them and they are a commuter school.
Aberzombie1892
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BaylorGrad09 said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.


While Fox seems like a good partner just to get away from ESPN, FS1 sucks to land on. Just not enough distribution, and not enough people even know it exists.


This. Viewership is a crapshoot if a game isn't on ESPN/CBS/ABC/FOX and doesn't involve high profile programs.
bear2be2
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Aberzombie1892 said:

BaylorGrad09 said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.


While Fox seems like a good partner just to get away from ESPN, FS1 sucks to land on. Just not enough distribution, and not enough people even know it exists.


This. Viewership is a crapshoot if a game isn't on ESPN/CBS/ABC/FOX and doesn't involve high profile programs.
600K isn't bad on FS1. I'd bet the average on that network is about a half-million.
ScottS
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atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
Tech fans can't watch as they are working (delivering).
tomiathon
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BaylorGrad09 said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.


While Fox seems like a good partner just to get away from ESPN, FS1 sucks to land on. Just not enough distribution, and not enough people even know it exists.


Which is such a shame because they have the best product IMO. I'd much rather watch a game on FS1 than literally any other network
Mothballs
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94_Bear
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Exactly. Repeating: This is the highest rating late night rating since 2016. The Pac-12 usually has this slot week in and week out. We just outdrew them with one opportunity.

2.4 for late night is huge. Look at Mississippi State/Arizona with 470,000 viewers.
Mothballs
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94_Bear said:

Exactly. Repeating: This is the highest rating late night rating since 2016. The Pac-12 usually has this slot week in and week out. We just outdrew them with one opportunity.

2.4 for late night is huge. Look at Mississippi State/Arizona with 470,000 viewers.

Can't be repeated enough.

Add Arizona, SDSU and Utah for basketball and we will own all of the late night basketball viewing time slots (of which there are many) too.
whitetrash
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bear2be2 said:

Aberzombie1892 said:

BaylorGrad09 said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.


While Fox seems like a good partner just to get away from ESPN, FS1 sucks to land on. Just not enough distribution, and not enough people even know it exists.


This. Viewership is a crapshoot if a game isn't on ESPN/CBS/ABC/FOX and doesn't involve high profile programs.
600K isn't bad on FS1. I'd bet the average on that network is about a half-million.
I doubt we will draw many for TxSt this saturday on FS1.
PartyBear
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I know it is a small sample but if Arizona does not draw much as a Pac team playing an SEC team in that slot. Why would they magically start drawing if they were a XII team? I doubt seriously that perhaps any of the 4 corners add to the pie. Not sure why they are so popular on this site as potential XII members. My suspicion is that they arent who we are looking at and who we are looking at is needing a definitive answer from the B 10 or at least come to understand they have been given a definitive answer from the B10 if the B10 has given them one in their minds.
Mothballs
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PartyBear said:

I know it is a small sample but if Arizona does not draw much as a Pac team playing an SEC team in that slot. Why would they magically start drawing if they were a XII team? I doubt seriously that perhaps any of the 4 corners add to the pie. Not sure why they are so popular on this site as potential XII members. My suspicion is that they arent who we are looking at and who we are looking at is needing a definitive answer from the B 10 or at least come to understand they have been given a definitive answer from the B10 if the B10 has given them one in their minds.

We are looking at what Arizona brings to the XII in basketball and hoping they will become better in football with improved recruiting in Texas, Florida and Ohio. Once Arizona State is reduced to G5 status that should help UA in-state recruiting too.

In regards to the viewership of Miss St @ Arizona you have to consider the network that covered the game. They were competing against Baylor @ BYU on ESPN. The XII needs that ESPN time slot and the numbers prove we deserve it.

Tuscon is only 400 miles from San Diego on 1-8 and would be a natural rivalry for Arizona. It would give UA and the BIG XII an avenue to talent rich SoCal.
Aberzombie1892
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PartyBear said:

I know it is a small sample but if Arizona does not draw much as a Pac team playing an SEC team in that slot. Why would they magically start drawing if they were a XII team? I doubt seriously that perhaps any of the 4 corners add to the pie. Not sure why they are so popular on this site as potential XII members. My suspicion is that they arent who we are looking at and who we are looking at is needing a definitive answer from the B 10 or at least come to understand they have been given a definitive answer from the B10 if the B10 has given them one in their minds.
To be fair, the game was on FS1 and was on essentially the same time as Texas v. Alabama, and that makes it unreasonable to point to that sample and claim that Arizona isn't a draw. It's like pointing to Baylor's on Saturday without acknowledging the unique situation that led to those solid ratings (on ESPN, no alternative games at all, both teams ranked, both teams undefeated, one team coming off of a conference title, etc.).
canoso
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Mothballs said:

PartyBear said:

I know it is a small sample but if Arizona does not draw much as a Pac team playing an SEC team in that slot. Why would they magically start drawing if they were a XII team? I doubt seriously that perhaps any of the 4 corners add to the pie. Not sure why they are so popular on this site as potential XII members. My suspicion is that they arent who we are looking at and who we are looking at is needing a definitive answer from the B 10 or at least come to understand they have been given a definitive answer from the B10 if the B10 has given them one in their minds.

We are looking at what Arizona brings to the XII in basketball and hoping they will become better in football with improved recruiting in Texas, Florida and Ohio. Once Arizona State is reduced to G5 status that should help UA in-state recruiting too.

In regards to the viewership of Miss St @ Arizona you have to consider the network that covered the game. They were competing against Baylor @ BYU on ESPN. The XII needs that ESPN time slot and the numbers prove we deserve it.

Tuscon is only 400 miles from San Diego on 1-8 and would be a natural rivalry for Arizona. It would give UA and the BIG XII an avenue to talent rich SoCal.
It's quite possible to underestimate the importance Arizona and other potential Big 12 members might place on being able to recruit Texas. Talking both FB and BB (M&W) here. Nebraska, Colorado and Mizzou are all reverse witnesses.
BUmoneymaker
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Ghostrider said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
. UH barely has a fan base. The city doesn't support them and they are a commuter school.


Can confirm. I have plenty of cougar alumni in our family and coworkers, including my boss who is an adjunct prof in the business school. None of em care or even know who they are playing in any given week. Its almost like my wife with sports in general. Out of sight out of mind
BUmoneymaker
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ScottS said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
Tech fans can't watch as they are working (delivering).


This joke never gets old. Also good job keeping the delivery occupation broad. Many have converted from dominoes to amazon
Aliceinbubbleland
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Go ahead and add Arizona and Arizona State that had no viewers. The only time they care is apparently when they play each other. Why split the money more ways with two schools so far from the new additions?.

Basketball isn't going to pay for football coaches and staff.

Do you really want a conference usa stretching from Florida to Arizona to West Virginia/Ohio?
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
Mothballs
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Go ahead and add Arizona and Arizona State that had no viewers. The only time they care is apparently when they play each other. Why split the money more ways with two schools so far from the new additions?.

Basketball isn't going to pay for football coaches and staff.

Do you really want a conference usa stretching from Florida to Arizona to West Virginia/Ohio?

That's what the new commissioner wants. I haven't seen any push back from the university presidents or ADs yet.
Aliceinbubbleland
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I wonder if this is any indication that OUT is happening sooner than planned?

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/lsu-football/lsus-home-and-home-series-vs-oklahoma-canceled-due-to-sooners-joining-the-sec/104218972/

They're looking for a P5 opponent. Is our phone ringing?
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
Aliceinbubbleland
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Mothballs said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Go ahead and add Arizona and Arizona State that had no viewers. The only time they care is apparently when they play each other. Why split the money more ways with two schools so far from the new additions?.

Basketball isn't going to pay for football coaches and staff.

Do you really want a conference usa stretching from Florida to Arizona to West Virginia/Ohio?

That's what the new commissioner wants. I haven't seen any push back from the university presidents or ADs yet.
They won't. I get it. A very large percentage of posters here like the idea. I'm just stuck in time capsul. Other than Tech, TCU and UH I don't really care about the rest.
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
BayouCity
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ScottS said:

atomicblast said:

Houston v Tech brought in only 600k, Both huge public schools that cant whip their bases into caring.
Tech fans can't watch as they are working (delivering).
I bet a ton of TT fans listened to it on AM radio between stops.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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whitetrash
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boognish_bear said:




Games that were actually entertaining to watch:

Clemson-Wake
Aggy-Arky
KSt-OU
To a lesser extent, Tenn-Fl

Games that would have been like stabbing an ice pick in my eye had I watched a single second of them:

OhioSt-Wisc
Mich-Md
UNC-ND
Aberzombie1892
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bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

bear2be2 said:

Mr Tulip said:

As a general rule, 4 million is the benchmark for national ratings. When the networks consider what properties advertisers care about, they like that number. It's usually what they base projections on.
That's the benchmark for Big Ten and SEC programs ... or more accurately, blue blood or blue blood adjacent programs.

That's not what we are or are talking about here. And given that there are only a handful of games that are going to reach or exceed that number in most weeks, there's still value in programs that can consistently do a million plus. It's not Big Ten or SEC value, but ESPN and Fox need to fill a ton of programing, and they'll happily take a million plus viewers in their secondary and tertiary programing when the alterative is highlight shows that no one watches or G5 games that will do a fraction of that number.

The Big 12 still has a niche in modern college football. And that will be borne out in the league's next TV contract.
That's actually what worries me.
How so? I'm not following.
I'm worried that the Big 12 will be that niche. It doesn't matter whether the game falls at 2:30 (almost always a tough "regional" slot) or 9:00pm. There's no advertising return on a game that holds a small audience. That's not "small for the time slot". That's just categorically small. Few eyeballs means less demand from advertisers. It doesn't matter if it's 90% of the football viewers at the time.

If having the Big 12's current champion and #9 ranked team play a tough game against a ranked opponent in an unopposed slot garners 2.3million, that doesn't exactly have a provider ready to over-pay for a contract. They'd have a tough time convincing themselves that any of the league's games would threaten that 4million mark that bumps up advertising rates.

Executive Summary: Niche is not good. Mainstream gets paid.
All sports programing is niche compared to just 10, 15, 20 years ago. None of these games are doing what they did when most households had cable.

And there just aren't as many "mainstream" games as you seem to believe. Only three schools averaged more than 4 million viewers in 2021, and only 15 averaged even 2 million. And those numbers match the ratings from 2015-19, when again only three schools averaged more than 4 million and again only 15 averaged as many as 2 million.

There is no "mainstream" and "niche." There are only blue bloods and non blue bloods. And there are waaaayyyyyy too many time slots to fill exclusively with games that will draw the types of numbers you're talking about.

ESPN and Fox need live programing. And they'll pay for it because the alternative loses money. No one watches non-live sports programing anymore.

Don't worry about the Big 12. It will get paid. Will it be SEC or Big Ten money? Of course not. But it will be comparable to what the remaining programs have been accustomed to earning annually and have had no problem running their athletic programs on for decades.
I think that Mr. Tulip's point is that the Big 12 champ vs. an undefeated, ranked (arguably P5 equivalent) team at an unopposed time slot on one of the big 4 networks (FOX, ABC, CBS, or ESPN) should have done better than 2.3M viewers if the Big 12 wants to be able to get better compensation in its next media deal, and that argument makes sense even outside of what the B1G, ND or SEC get paid.

I think that the conference will have a better idea of how things stand once the ratings of Oklahoma State and Baylor are back. Interestingly enough, that game will be on at the same time as the below games, so the ratings will be fascinating to see.

Selected games kicking off the same time as OSU v. Baylor (FOX):
Alabama v. Arkansas (CBS)
Northwestern v. Penn State (ESPN)
Wake Forest v. FSU (ABC)
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