bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Okay, sounds good. I would agree. Maybe Im blind here but I could see a scenario where OU improves just a bit but still isn't great and makes the title game comfortably. Same actually applies to BU to a lesser extent.

Cincy and Ok st as well (but don't think either will be in contention so it won't "matter")

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I want to know what happens when four teams finish with the same conference record and don't have any head-to-head tiebreakers.

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Point differential? Kick that field goal CDA!!

Bear8084 said:

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ImwithBU said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

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I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

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They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

That is true. Houston is the easiest of the 3. UCF is going to be a wild environment. Cincy with multiple losses might be toned down a bit by then.. but road game in first year in the conference will be tricky. Rather at Cincy than at Ok state (even in their weakened state though) so its relative.

I disagree. The result is unmatched divisions & a championship game between a good team & often a mediocre team. The 2 best teams are often in the same division. The SEC & Big 10 offer good examples much if the time.

Quinton said:

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Bear8084 said:

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ImwithBU said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

---

I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

---

They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

---

The other two fan bases and schools would not be equally as hyped?

We've done it before but in Morgantown. It could be interesting & at least it's in Waco.

Bear8084 said:

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Quinton said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

---

I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

---

They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

---

The other two fan bases and schools would not be equally as hyped?

---

Hou isn't a very talented football team and they don't travel. Its a pretty standard home game for us so really no change there and no big rivalry / juice for that game. Yes Houston will be hyped but the game is in Nov and in addition to lack of top line talent, their depth is really bad. I expect them to be beaten down pretty badly by then.

As for Cincy, this will not be the first home game they play. If they have a good record then sure but if they already have multiple losses I wouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary. If Fickle was still there I would agree but with a new coach not too concerned.

Again it is a game that can be lost but the season is probably in big trouble if they lose to either Hou or Cincy next year. I agree with UCF. The environment due to being the very first big 12 home game ever will be wild. I also think Ucf is probably in the best position of the 3 talent wise. Depth won't be as big an issue with it being an early season game.

Everyone's schedule was juggled except for the OUT game. Same place and time like last 100 years. They are still runing this conference.

whitetrash said:

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UT plays only 2 games outside the state of Texas: @ Bama and @ IowaSt. Road games @BU, UH and TCU, plus OU in Dallas. No Cincy, no UCF, no WV, no OkSt

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TTech is UT's lackey to keep the in-state games rolling after Horn exit.

historian said:

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I disagree. The result is unmatched divisions & a championship game between a good team & often a mediocre team. The 2 best teams are often in the same division. The SEC & Big 10 offer good examples much if the time.

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That's better than deciding the qualifiers by schedule strength.

Russell Gym said:

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whitetrash said:

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UT plays only 2 games outside the state of Texas: @ Bama and @ IowaSt. Road games @BU, UH and TCU, plus OU in Dallas. No Cincy, no UCF, no WV, no OkSt

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TTech is UT's lackey to keep the in-state games rolling after Horn exit.

---

I believe Texas has actually backed out of those talks. I hate to say it this way but it just is the way it is. UT is a blue blood and the flagship school of the state. They don't need to play a Texas school every year for a following in their own home state. That was all going to benefit Tech. They will be playing A&M every year any way I assume.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

---

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I only like championship games with divisions. They make no sense otherwise

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If you have one weak division and the two best teams are in the same division, then the championship game is truly meaningless. Having the two best teams in the conference play for the championship makes the most sense.

Quinton said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

---

I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

---

They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

---

Somehow we always fall into these things.....BYU this year up there in a night game knowing they will be in the conference next year, having to play TCU the week that Patterson got fired, and I think there have been other times when stuff like this happens. Too many times where the other team has a reason to be hyped and we just happen to be the ones on the schedule. Unfortunately we too often are not up to the task.

Quinton said:

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Bear8084 said:

---

Quinton said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

---

I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

---

They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

---

The other two fan bases and schools would not be equally as hyped?

---

Hou isn't a very talented football team and they don't travel. Its a pretty standard home game for us so really no change there and no big rivalry / juice for that game. Yes Houston will be hyped but the game is in Nov and in addition to lack of top line talent, their depth is really bad. I expect them to be beaten down pretty badly by then.

As for Cincy, this will not be the first home game they play. If they have a good record then sure but if they already have multiple losses I wouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary. If Fickle was still there I would agree but with a new coach not too concerned.

Again it is a game that can be lost but the season is probably in big trouble if they lose to either Hou or Cincy next year. I agree with UCF. The environment due to being the very first big 12 home game ever will be wild. I also think Ucf is probably in the best position of the 3 talent wise. Depth won't be as big an issue with it being an early season game.

---

*nods* Pretty fair analysis.

PartyBear said:

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Russell Gym said:

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whitetrash said:

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UT plays only 2 games outside the state of Texas: @ Bama and @ IowaSt. Road games @BU, UH and TCU, plus OU in Dallas. No Cincy, no UCF, no WV, no OkSt

---

TTech is UT's lackey to keep the in-state games rolling after Horn exit.

---

I believe Texas has actually backed out of those talks. I hate to say it this way but it just is the way it is. UT is a blue blood and the flagship school of the state. They don't need to play a Texas school every year for a following in their own home state. That was all going to benefit Tech. They will be playing A&M every year any way I assume.

---

Texas schedules to benefit Texas. They don't make plans just to help out the Promoters Of Gun Violence in Lubbock. Would it benefit Tech? An argument can be made, sure. But I can guarantee you that if there is no benefit to Texas, it won't happen.

Chamberman said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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I only like championship games with divisions. They make no sense otherwise

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If you have one weak division and the two best teams are in the same division, then the championship game is truly meaningless. Having the two best teams in the conference play for the championship makes the most sense.

---

See B1G this year (Mich 9-0, OhioSt 8-1, PennSt 7-2 in east, Purdue won the west at 6-3) or Big12 back in 2004 (north went 3-15 against the south; all 3 wins over BU)

whitetrash said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Are there sharks in Long Island ...?

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Where do you think Amity Island was?

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Jaws was filmed on Martha's Vineyard but that's fiction. The Atlantic Ocean has plenty of sharks.

bear2be2 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Okay, sounds good. I would agree. Maybe Im blind here but I could see a scenario where OU improves just a bit but still isn't great and makes the title game comfortably. Same actually applies to BU to a lesser extent.

Cincy and Ok st as well (but don't think either will be in contention so it won't "matter")

---

I want to know what happens when four teams finish with the same conference record and don't have any head-to-head tiebreakers.

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Dueling pistols at High Noon

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That puts Oklahoma State and Tech at a pretty significant advantage, no?

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It took me a second - but this was pretty funny.

Chamberman said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I only like championship games with divisions. They make no sense otherwise

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If you have one weak division and the two best teams are in the same division, then the championship game is truly meaningless. Having the two best teams in the conference play for the championship makes the most sense.

---

It's no more meaningless than a game between two teams that happened to luck into the lightest schedules that year. And nothing's more meaningless than a rematch after a round robin schedule, which completely negates all importance from the first matchup.

At least with divisions, every team in each had roughly equivalent paths and a chance to beat each of its rivals head to head.

whitetrash said:

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Chamberman said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I only like championship games with divisions. They make no sense otherwise

---

If you have one weak division and the two best teams are in the same division, then the championship game is truly meaningless. Having the two best teams in the conference play for the championship makes the most sense.

---

See B1G this year (Mich 9-0, OhioSt 8-1, PennSt 7-2 in east, Purdue won the west at 6-3) or Big12 back in 2004 (north went 3-15 against the south; all 3 wins over BU)

---

Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State all played each other in division play. There's no mystery at the end who was better or who deserved to play in the championship game. A rematch at that point would be as stupid as the Big 12's after a round robin schedule.

In a 14-team league without divisions it won't be nearly as clean. The championship participants will often be those fortunate enough to avoid the best teams or the ones with the weakest "natural rivals" once we settle into our 12-team format.

blackie said:

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Quinton said:

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Bear8084 said:

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ImwithBU said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

This is a terrible schedule for entertainment value ....
- No OU
- No OSU
- The worse three newbs
- Surprised they gave us Tech and TCU

---

I think we should focus on winning the games

---

This. UH, Cincy, and UCF are not walks in the park.

---

They aren't but the Cincy and Hou games are 2 of the easiest games on the schedule. Not saying its an auto win but that is just the reality.

I agree on UCF. This is their first big 12 home game ever. They seem to be really hyped to join and I would expect a wild environment there. Just the nature of that game makes it inevitable that they will be sky high for that one.

---

Somehow we always fall into these things.....BYU this year up there in a night game knowing they will be in the conference next year, having to play TCU the week that Patterson got fired, and I think there have been other times when stuff like this happens. Too many times where the other team has a reason to be hyped and we just happen to be the ones on the schedule. Unfortunately we too often are not up to the task.

---

I have noticed that and expect the environment to be similar to the BYU game. It is going to be a very intense environment.

I agree we often show up like an OU or Texas would in these type of scenarios.. where we just play and don't match the intensity. There have been several years (not this year) where we have not matched the intensity against Tcu specifically. A lot of games with special situations where the motivations were unbalanced. Its probably just confirmation bias on my part but it does seem like that.

Russell Gym said:

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whitetrash said:

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UT plays only 2 games outside the state of Texas: @ Bama and @ IowaSt. Road games @BU, UH and TCU, plus OU in Dallas. No Cincy, no UCF, no WV, no OkSt

---

TTech is UT's lackey to keep the in-state games rolling after Horn exit.

---

Yep. I'd wager their AD's and the Commish in Dallas burned the phone lines up to make the last game of the season for Tech with expectations they will continue to play UT.

We don't play our 3rd road game until the 2nd weekend of November. That's a good thing.

Another good thing - both OU and Texas get the shaft with only 4 home games in their last season in the conference.

baylorrific said:

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It is probably too much to ask that chart use Baylor's current trademark interlocking letters and not the one from years ago.

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That is the new logo.

Not bad

Coming to a stadium near you

📄 https://t.co/juKmcvFJ1i pic.twitter.com/JesJWqIqxU

— K-State Football (@KStateFB) January 31, 2023

Quinton said:

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ImwithBU said:

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Quinton said:

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Im sure this is just a jab but OU is better than Cincy, Uh, or Ucf. Looks like we've been given a bit of a gift although its a really boring schedule. We need to sweep those games.

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How can you bored when we these are all new teams

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Byu is the most interesting new team and we don't get them. Uh would be interesting if played in Houston although I'll take what should be a uneventful win.

We've played some great games against OU and Ok St recently and swapping them out for Cincy, Uh, and Ucf is not ideal but again its a fairly easy schedule so Aranda should take advantage.

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What planet do you live on???

Quinton said:

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Wicked_Wombat said:

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Strange...the legacy B12 teams play 2, 3 or all 4 of the new schools...and not all of the legacy teams (such as BU doesn't play OU). Just weird. This will result in conference schedules of varying difficulty.

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How is a champ determined? These schedules vary on difficult A lot meaning its not comparable. Now for us it might be a benefit since we play 3 of the new members but still not fair if its just take the 2 best records.

---

What a bizarre comment. Schedules vary in difficulty with divisions too, even moreso, since half the years a team might skip all the tough cross-division opponents. Add in permanent cross-division "rivals" like the SEC does, and it gets even sillier. No divisions is a great thing

And plenty of years in the SEC everyone knows the second and sometimes even third best team aren't playing in the title game. Tennessee crushed LSU but they're in the East and lost to UGA so LSU went to the title game.

On a personal level excited for a doable drive to Cincinnati. Only 4 hours.

boykin_spaniel said:

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And plenty of years in the SEC everyone knows the second and sometimes even third best team aren't playing in the title game. Tennessee crushed LSU but they're in the East and lost to UGA so LSU went to the title game.

On a personal level excited for a doable drive to Cincinnati. Only 4 hours.

---

Why should Tennessee get another shot at Georgia? They got their assess kicked the first time and finished two games behind them in the standings.

What's happening here is people are slowly realizing how stupid these conference championship games are to begin with.

All they do any time there's a rematch is tell us the first game (and thus, the regular season) meant nothing. I'm ok devaluing the regular season for a national playoff. Doing so to crown an arbitrary conference champion when it's already been done in the regular season is stupid.

The only way a conference title game makes a lick of sense is with divisions. Otherwise, it's just a stupid, unnecessary game at the end of the year, thrown in to make the conference's money.

bear2be2 said:

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boykin_spaniel said:

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And plenty of years in the SEC everyone knows the second and sometimes even third best team aren't playing in the title game. Tennessee crushed LSU but they're in the East and lost to UGA so LSU went to the title game.

On a personal level excited for a doable drive to Cincinnati. Only 4 hours.

---

The only way a conference title game makes a lick of sense is with divisions. Otherwise, it's just a stupid, unnecessary game at the end of the year, thrown in to make the conference's money.

---

Not only that, but conferences built around divisions because they had a title game structure. The only reason we started one is because the CFP was killing us, not because it made any competitive sense.

Look at soccer tables globally, the only true point of comparison with a unified table. You win the league by winning the league. It's simple and fair. It's much more impressive to finish first over a 38-game schedule than squeeze through a final playoff. You don't make #1 and #2 play again in some arbitrary game at the end of the year - they already settled that.

I feel for 2021 OSU (kinda) because they were the best team in the league over the longest period of time in a year where everyone played everyone. They beat us, finished clear in 1st place in the Big 12 over 9 games, then had to play us again to call themselves champs because the conference had no chance at CFP wealth otherwise.

I will take our banner but if the places were reversed we'd all be screaming about this at every chance we got.

Cove Dawg said:

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ImwithBU said:

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Quinton said:

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Im sure this is just a jab but OU is better than Cincy, Uh, or Ucf. Looks like we've been given a bit of a gift although its a really boring schedule. We need to sweep those games.

---

How can you bored when we these are all new teams

---

Does a season finale against WVU excite you?

---

It does if we are in the hunt for the Big 12 title

boognish_bear said:

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Cove Dawg said:

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Wasn't even aware Long Island you fielded a football team.

---

Last year Albany. This year Long Island. Next year Queensborough Community College?

---

Those were suppose to be La Tech games. Not world beaters but it is understandable why we are playing these teams. We have an OPC P5 game. That's all I can ask for

parch said:

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bear2be2 said:

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boykin_spaniel said:

---

And plenty of years in the SEC everyone knows the second and sometimes even third best team aren't playing in the title game. Tennessee crushed LSU but they're in the East and lost to UGA so LSU went to the title game.

On a personal level excited for a doable drive to Cincinnati. Only 4 hours.

---

The only way a conference title game makes a lick of sense is with divisions. Otherwise, it's just a stupid, unnecessary game at the end of the year, thrown in to make the conference's money.

---

Not only that, but conferences built around divisions because they had a title game structure. The only reason we started one is because the CFP was killing us, not because it made any competitive sense.

Look at soccer tables globally, the only true point of comparison with a unified table. You win the league by winning the league. It's simple and fair. It's much more impressive to finish first over a 38-game schedule than squeeze through a final playoff. You don't make #1 and #2 play again in some arbitrary game at the end of the year - they already settled that.

I feel for 2021 OSU (kinda) because they were the best team in the league over the longest period of time in a year where everyone played everyone. They beat us, finished clear in 1st place in the Big 12 over 9 games, then had to play us again to call themselves champs because the conference had no chance at CFP wealth otherwise.

I will take our banner but if the places were reversed we'd all be screaming about this at every chance we got.

---

That's happened the last three years in the Big 12. Iowa State beat OU and finished a game ahead in the standings only to lose the title game in 2020, Oklahoma State did the same with us in 2021 and TCU finished two full games ahead of K-State this past season.

At least in basketball, you crown a regular-season champion and everyone acknowledges the conference tournaments as their own gimmicky thing.

To play a whole conference schedule to put everything on one game that's already played in most cases is a ridiculous practice.

Super weird takes on hating the CCG. I personally find a final matchup between two top teams very exciting. Nobody complains about a playoff rematch in the NFL (or maybe they do, I dunno).

Anyway, the real reason the Big XII ccg exists in 2023 is to be able to sell it to a network. Networks are more likely to buy it if they are guaranteed to get 2 ranked teams playing with high stakes implications. Just like everything else, it is about money.

I would bet that the official playoff rankings will be at least one of the tie breakers if not the first one. This guarantees the Big XII gets its two teams most likely to qualify for the playoff (or a playoff bye) playing each other in the last game. It also gets more viewers.

wongobear said:

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Super weird takes on hating the CCG. I personally find a final matchup between two top teams very exciting. Nobody complains about a playoff rematch in the NFL (or maybe they do, I dunno).

Anyway, the real reason the Big XII ccg exists in 2023 is to be able to sell it to a network. Networks are more likely to buy it if they are guaranteed to get 2 ranked teams playing with high stakes implications. Just like everything else, it is about money.

I would bet that the official playoff rankings will be at least one of the tie breakers if not the first one. This guarantees the Big XII gets its two teams most likely to qualify for the playoff (or a playoff bye) playing each other in the last game. It also gets more viewers.

---

That's because a national playoff makes sense. You take the best teams from every division and play a fair playoff with concise rules for inclusion and benefits for those who excelled most in the regular season.

Negating the results of a regular season spent playing conference opposition to crown a conference champion on the results of one neutral site game that has already been played does not.

It's just a shameless money grab sold as something important.