I just read Violated and hated it. Not necessarily that it was a bad book, or that it's a hack job (it's biased, but not a hack job). It should have an "explicit content" warning. This post refers to that, so stop reading now if you don't want to hear it.

I hated Violated because of its portrayal of campus culture. I know some college kids are going to drink and party and have sex. But in Violated, it's way beyond that.

--House parties that feature gang bangs
--Football players tricking girls into coming over to have sex with multiple guys
--An expectation that a girl who has sex with one guy is willing to be "shared" with his friends
--"Date rape" drugs being frequently used, especially at frat parties
--Audiences forming--and cheering--when people are having sex
--Pot and other drugs freely and openly used
--Drinking to the point of blacking out

You get the idea. . . .

Call me old-fashioned and/or moralistic, but as an alumnus and Baylor parent, my message is CUT IT OUT! These activities are unacceptable and should not be practiced or tolerated by ANY Baylor student!

Like everyone else on this board, I have hated all of the negative publicity and damage this mess has brought to our beloved school. But I really hope that the tide is turning and that I won't read another story about a frat boy raping someone at a party, or students having sex with HS recruits, or a football player beating up his girlfriend, or a Diadeloso get together turning into a gang bang. That's not the Baylor I knew thirty years ago and it's not the Baylor I want for my son.

(And speaking of Diadeloso, please stop making it an excuse for wild, alcohol-fueled parties. That's a sure way to get administration to end a great, fun Baylor tradition.)

OK, rant over. Flame away, if you're so inclined, but I bet many of you, especially parents, agree with me.

I am far from moralistic and totally agree with. Writing it off as our not understanding today's kids is ridiculous. My wife and I know which of my daughter's friends are falling into that lifestyle.

You don't support that as a donor.

But all that sounds like a lot of fun

FWBear91 said:

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I just read Violated and hated it. Not necessarily that it was a bad book, or that it's a hack job (it's biased, but not a hack job). It should have an "explicit content" warning. This post refers to that, so stop reading now if you don't want to hear it.

I hated Violated because of its portrayal of campus culture. I know some college kids are going to drink and party and have sex. But in Violated, it's way beyond that.

--House parties that feature gang bangs
--Football players tricking girls into coming over to have sex with multiple guys
--An expectation that a girl who has sex with one guy is willing to be "shared" with his friends
--"Date rape" drugs being frequently used, especially at frat parties
--Audiences forming--and cheering--when people are having sex
--Pot and other drugs freely and openly used
--Drinking to the point of blacking out

You get the idea. . . .

Call me old-fashioned and/or moralistic, but as an alumnus and Baylor parent, my message is CUT IT OUT! These activities are unacceptable and should not be practiced or tolerated by ANY Baylor student!

Like everyone else on this board, I have hated all of the negative publicity and damage this mess has brought to our beloved school. But I really hope that the tide is turning and that I won't read another story about a frat boy raping someone at a party, or students having sex with HS recruits, or a football player beating up his girlfriend, or a Diadeloso get together turning into a gang bang. That's not the Baylor I knew thirty years ago and it's not the Baylor I want for my son.

(And speaking of Diadeloso, please stop making it an excuse for wild, alcohol-fueled parties. That's a sure way to get administration to end a great, fun Baylor tradition.)

OK, rant over. Flame away, if you're so inclined, but I bet many of you, especially parents, agree with me.

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I graduate in December. I have been here 4 1/2 years, which is basically the majority of the time covered in that book, Yes, things like that happened on Baylor's campus, just like any other college campus around the country including the most puritanical colleges. It doesn't make it right, but the thing you must remember is that a book like this focuses on the sensationalized portion, which is the 10% and less factor yet seems like 90% because a book doesn't sell if it focuses on all the campus students like me who were completely oblivious to all of those shenanigans. I have a feeling the Baylor you knew wasn't much different. You were just like me, in the 90% who didn't know the 10% were doing those things.

RealLarryDon said:

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I have a feeling the Baylor you knew wasn't much different. You were just like me, in the 90% who didn't know the 10% were doing those things.

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I'm sure you are exactly right.

Congrats, by the way! I hope your last semester is awesome!

RealLarryDon said:

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I graduate in December. I have been here 4 1/2 years, which is basically the majority of the time covered in that book, Yes, things like that happened on Baylor's campus, just like any other college campus around the country including the most puritanical colleges. It doesn't make it right, but the thing you must remember is that a book like this focuses on the sensationalized portion, which is the 10% and less factor yet seems like 90% because a book doesn't sell if it focuses on all the campus students like me who were completely oblivious to all of those shenanigans. I have a feeling the Baylor you knew wasn't much different. You were just like me, in the 90% who didn't know the 10% were doing those things.

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I appreciate those comments. Schlabach and Lavigne are hypocrites, blind, or just plain stupid. They want to sell the shock story, but they are only using the first person because they know what you''re pointing out which is that its' not widespread, typical or even the norm in any sense. College kids are like anyone else and the internet has leveled that playing field. While I'm' sure it' happens at Baylor I can promise you that it's less frequent than the book makes it appear.

This tactic has been the norm of the liberal elites for years. They want to paint conservative Christians/the South as backward, inbred, less intelligent, corrupt.

The parties at the Ivy and near Ivy colleges in the North East put Baylor to shame, Spent a summer as a student in Boston and a year working there and the nickname for the shuttle service the ferried Wellesley girls to and from the other colleges was called "The F--- Truck." and their women made the wildest girls look like garden variety nuns. Ask anyone that's lived in coed dorms at places like George Washington or Boston College and they'll tell you.

It just doesn't have the shock appeal these scam artists are trying to sell.

Last year my daughter was a freshman at UNC. She describes seeing everything in the OP except for the gangangs. She doesn't drink and went to two or three of these parties to make sure her suitemates got home OK. She didn't enjoy the parties and wearied of being the chaperone so ultimately she left them to their own devices.

This is nation-wide.

Yes, I Am Charlotte Simmons chronicled the moral decay pretty well. I was jumping on here to echo what LarryDon said. There is a seedy underbelly at every college. I agree with the sentiments of the original post though.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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I appreciate those comments. Schlabach and Lavigne are hypocrites, blind, or just plain stupid. They want to sell the shock story, but they are only using the first person because they know what you''re pointing out which is that its' not widespread, typical or even the norm in any sense. College kids are like anyone else and the internet has leveled that playing field. While I'm' sure it' happens at Baylor I can promise you that it's less frequent than the book makes it appear.

This tactic has been the norm of the liberal elites for years. They want to paint conservative Christians/the South as backward, inbred, less intelligent, corrupt.

The parties at the Ivy and near Ivy colleges in the North East put Baylor to shame, Spent a summer as a student in Boston and a year working there and the nickname for the shuttle service the ferried Wellesley girls to and from the other colleges was called "The F--- Truck." and their women made the wildest girls look like garden variety nuns. Ask anyone that's lived in coed dorms at places like George Washington or Boston College and they'll tell you.

It just doesn't have the shock appeal these scam artists are trying to sell.

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does this predate the BangBus ?

Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

And anybody in my frat even thought about rape or date rape drugs we would have beat his ass so bad he would have to leave school

Anyone who thinks these scenarios don't play out from the Ivy League to Texas State are kidding themselves

Between undergrad and grad school I've attended 4 different universities and then worked in student life at BU for 5 years. I know for a fact that stuff like this happened as far back as GT. I also know it's not unique to Baylor (or even more prevalent at Baylor) nor is it something that CAB created. That doesn't make it ok but it IS a reality that has to be addressed nationwide, not just at Baylor. All of us either were a person OR know a person who treated college as a chance to pursue excesses and experimentation. Our society has celebrated the concept in numerous films over the past 30 years (from Animal House to Van Wilder). Potential consequences are rarely part of the thought process. That said, it still drives me nuts for Baylor to be singled out as the evil doer when I am fairly certain that, in contrast to 98% of the tier one schools out there, we were and remain one of the least "guilty". If you could actually analyze the thoughts and actions of all the D1 football teams across the country I'm pretty sure you'd find 3 to 12 guys on every team pursuing some personal vision of The Program + Animal House + Eyes Wide Shut.

bobo said:

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Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

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That's what a select few number of people don't get about the Briles fiasco, it's not that this doesn't happen elsewhere, it's that we failed to be any different...granted a bunch of opportunistic outsiders don't care about much more than hurting Baylor competitively, but we have to have a higher standard than their petty and disingenuous interest in our failings other than how it affected out football program's ability to compete in the short term.

This is why our regents used football as a bright shiny object.

FAKE NEWS!

I just read a new book called Confessions From Planet Pluto. ( nevermind that poor Pluto has been deplaneted.)

None of it is verified or subject to cross examination. Suffice it to say that blow up dolls were VIOLATED!

Numerous Illuminati Vigils resulting in HORSE COPULATION occurred.

Folks passed out after drinking copious amounts. ( HAS THIS EVER happened???)

And women were forced to watch as ut 's baseball coach masterbated using a grinding wheel-- producing sparks.

And then...

This might be taking the topic way too deep but... This is the internet generation. These kids are a among the first college students to have literally been raised in a constantly connected world. More than 90% of that internet is pornographic in nature. There's a lot of psych research coming out these days that indicates prolonged exposure to pornography dehumanizes and may increase the likelihood of sexual violence. So maybe it is more of an issue than it was 20 years ago, I really don't know. Please don't think I'm playing some holier than thou card or hyping a religious agenda. That research is coming out of state schools and I'm just trying to process if this really is something more significant than it once was.

If football wasn't involved, this book would never have been written. If Baylor had been bad at football when this happened, no one would have cared and this book would never have been written. Nobody in the big 12 ever asked Kansas about their rape issues with football players. Nobody cares anything about Kansas State's Title ix problems. Nobody cares about Title ix unless it they have some other reason to care.

RealLarryDon said:

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It doesn't make it right, but the thing you must remember is that a book like this focuses on the sensationalized portion, which is the 10% and less factor yet seems like 90% because a book doesn't sell if it focuses on all the campus students like me who were completely oblivious to all of those shenanigans. I have a feeling the Baylor you knew wasn't much different. You were just like me, in the 90% who didn't know the 10% were doing those things.

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This. You can find trouble at Baylor just like any other campus. The bigger difference is you can find fraternities (big ones) who have bible studies and stay out of trouble on the weekends and they are not weirdos like at big public schools. There are 10% or maybe more but not a majority that want to get wild, but most are not looking for that.

Perverted little tarts

vanillabryce said:

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Anyone who thinks these scenarios don't play out from the Ivy League to Texas State are kidding themselves

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Or are "former" employees at ESPN....hahahahahaha

its fascinating that two former ESPN agenda journalists think Baylor is a scandal but can't find the time or wherewithall to check out schools like ....Arizona State which practically has its own porn channel at this point.

As a current student I'm actually really surprised that you didn't think this stuff went on at Baylor. I guess the dangers of the "it doesn't happen here" mentality is also one of the most important lessons everyone's learned from the past 2 years or so.

One thing I don't think you touched on enough is the drug use. Drugs are more common at Baylor than you might think, the combination of a largely affluent student body with the availability of drugs in Waco make it pretty common for a lot of sororities/fraternities to have someone dealing. Another thing about these students that live this lifestyle is honestly you would never know just by looking at them. I know innocent looking sorority girls who were 4.0 business fellows who dealt some serious drugs in serious quantities for years. I think there is a big disconnect from the largely older alumnus on this board (and around Baylor in general) compared to the students on campus today.

Joecool114 said:

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As a current student I'm actually really surprised that you didn't think this stuff went on at Baylor. I guess the dangers of the "it doesn't happen here" mentality is also one of the most important lessons everyone's learned from the past 2 years or so.

One thing I don't think you touched on enough is the drug use. Drugs are more common at Baylor than you might think, the combination of a largely affluent student body with the availability of drugs in Waco make it pretty common for a lot of sororities/fraternities to have someone dealing. Another thing about these students that live this lifestyle is honestly you would never know just by looking at them. I know innocent looking sorority girls who were 4.0 business fellows who dealt some serious drugs in serious quantities for years. I think there is a big disconnect from the largely older alumnus on this board (and around Baylor in general) compared to the students on campus today.

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The disconnect comes from our just not being cool. I am surprised that you did not expect and anticipate that given your username.

Do you actually think that there were no drugs in society and Waco in the 1970's and 1980's? I may be naive in the way that I don't expect girls of today to not know that doing something public at a party will get you on video and video is forever. College isn't.

I'd be interested to see how similar in-depth reporting would read if it was written about some of the parties during my time at Baylor (mid 00's). I read these accounts and it seems like they are truly on a different level, however, looking back I could see how slanted reporting and bias could make what we saw as a good time look a lot different. Some of the over the top and public sexual stuff talked about sounds crazy but hard to really know what was going on.

Also I agree that the whole 90% vs 10% issues is real (maybe 80-20? but who knows). With only a couple good bars in Waco, we would see the same couple hundred people out with us consistently. Obviously a large majority of the campus was not out all the time.

Dia, however, did evolve over the 5 years I was here. Clearly we were able to get away with more as the football team got better. Same with tailgating. Hard for someone to argue otherwise.

How did I make it through 4 years and two summers at Baylor and never once learn of these parties?

Joecool114 said:

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As a current student I'm actually really surprised that you didn't think this stuff went on at Baylor. I guess the dangers of the "it doesn't happen here" mentality is also one of the most important lessons everyone's learned from the past 2 years or so.

One thing I don't think you touched on enough is the drug use. Drugs are more common at Baylor than you might think, the combination of a largely affluent student body with the availability of drugs in Waco make it pretty common for a lot of sororities/fraternities to have someone dealing. Another thing about these students that live this lifestyle is honestly you would never know just by looking at them. I know innocent looking sorority girls who were 4.0 business fellows who dealt some serious drugs in serious quantities for years. I think there is a big disconnect from the largely older alumnus on this board (and around Baylor in general) compared to the students on campus today.

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i went to Baylor 15 years ago, and this was always my problem with the school. I was in a fraternity, partied pretty hard, but was never in trouble. It happened all over campus, because ITS COLLEGE and that happens. yes, there is half of the school that is the bible toting crowd, and it think that gives the administration the wrong impression of the student body. This "it doesn't happen here" mindset is one of the reasons we are in this mess.

Not going to read it - zero interest, and old news.

la1037 said:

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RealLarryDon said:

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It doesn't make it right, but the thing you must remember is that a book like this focuses on the sensationalized portion, which is the 10% and less factor yet seems like 90% because a book doesn't sell if it focuses on all the campus students like me who were completely oblivious to all of those shenanigans. I have a feeling the Baylor you knew wasn't much different. You were just like me, in the 90% who didn't know the 10% were doing those things.

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This. You can find trouble at Baylor just like any other campus. The bigger difference is you can find fraternities (big ones) who have bible studies and stay out of trouble on the weekends and they are not weirdos like at big public schools. There are 10% or maybe more but not a majority that want to get wild, but most are not looking for that.

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I'm not suggesting that a small minority of Baylor students (including some athletes) aren't into wild partying/drinking/drugs, etc., but seriously, who decides to go to Baylor because they want to attend a "party school"?? If that is one of your major or even minor requirements, I'm pretty sure Baylor won't be showing up on your list of most desired universities to attend.

MilliVanilli said:

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bobo said:

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Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

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That's what a select few number of people don't get about the Briles fiasco, it's not that this doesn't happen elsewhere, it's that we failed to be any different...granted a bunch of opportunistic outsiders don't care about much more than hurting Baylor competitively, but we have to have a higher standard than their petty and disingenuous interest in our failings other than how it affected out football program's ability to compete in the short term.

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You do realize we are talking about the whole university and not just football?

MilliVanilli said:

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bobo said:

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Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

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That's what a select few number of people don't get about the Briles fiasco, it's not that this doesn't happen elsewhere, it's that we failed to be any different...granted a bunch of opportunistic outsiders don't care about much more than hurting Baylor competitively, but we have to have a higher standard than their petty and disingenuous interest in our failings other than how it affected out football program's ability to compete in the short term.

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We were different. We were worse. We were worse because of people who care more about appearance than facts. Your comments about our "higher standard" are a pretty good example. It's empty, street corner prayer bloviating. We had lower standards. We were so convinced of our own superiority that we institutionally failed to deal with difficult issues.

This all predated Briles by decades. You calling it the "Briles fiasco" shows that you STILL care more about some bull**** image than you do facts.

I played baseball at a state school here in Louisiana back in the late 70's and early 80's. The drinking age was 18 and there were drunken parties at the frat houses and off campus. Back then none of the athletes lived off campus but the football team had it's own dorm. I witnessed much of the same behavior the OP noted in that dorm back then and it was usually spearheaded by the same small group of wild men. It seemed like it was the same small group of girls partying with them all the time and not widespread. Unless someone filed a complaint the football staff ignored the situations. Pretty sure this was happening at most places then and sadly still does today.

My daughter is a senior at Baylor and still lives in one of the LLC's on campus. She said she knows of off-campus parties that are pretty wild and get out of hand. She is friends with some athletes and has heard them complain about a very small group that is ruining the name of all Baylor. We have did our best to raise her in a way to steer clear of this behavior and so far she has. Thankfully, her Bio-Chem Pre-Med path keeps her too busy to have much free time.

I agree, this goes on at every school in some fashion. Why do we think it's going to stop with Coach Rhule? I can see it getting a little better by not bringing in so many 'bad dudes', but Baylor is still a university with lots of 'white women that love Baylor football players'. What's going to suddenly change now? Less gang bangs maybe?

ghostrider said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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bobo said:

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Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

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That's what a select few number of people don't get about the Briles fiasco, it's not that this doesn't happen elsewhere, it's that we failed to be any different...granted a bunch of opportunistic outsiders don't care about much more than hurting Baylor competitively, but we have to have a higher standard than their petty and disingenuous interest in our failings other than how it affected out football program's ability to compete in the short term.

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You do realize we are talking about the whole university and not just football?

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Aggy, I know you have an axe to grind, but try not to be an ass without provocation every now and then.

Robert Wilson said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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bobo said:

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Yes things like that went on 25 years ago. But it went on at every college and Baylor was better than most.

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That's what a select few number of people don't get about the Briles fiasco, it's not that this doesn't happen elsewhere, it's that we failed to be any different...granted a bunch of opportunistic outsiders don't care about much more than hurting Baylor competitively, but we have to have a higher standard than their petty and disingenuous interest in our failings other than how it affected out football program's ability to compete in the short term.

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We were different. We were worse. We were worse because of people who care more about appearance than facts. Your comments about our "higher standard" are a pretty good example. It's empty, street corner prayer bloviating. We had lower standards. We were so convinced of our own superiority that we institutionally failed to deal with difficult issues.

This all predated Briles by decades. You calling it the "Briles fiasco" shows that you STILL care more about some bull**** image than you do facts.

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Seeming you're nothing but a Briles shill, we can assume your "we" is that dismissed inner circle.

Sorry our standards were higher than your own.