Aberzombie1892 said:

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Mothballs said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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DustyM said:

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You shouldn't speak for everyone.

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Let me rephrase: No one -reasonably- believes that Baylor would have won the 2015 national title but for Seth Russel's injury.

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Are these the same reasonable people that thought Baylor football would never leave the BIG XII cellar when Art Briles was hired? Asking for a friend...

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To be fair, the Big 12 has changed significantly between the date Briles was hired and the end of the previous round of Big 12 realignment (Nebraska/Texas A&M/Colorado/Missouri were replaced with TCU/WVU), so it's apples to oranges to compare what the Big 12 was in 2008 to what was from 2011-on.

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You're correct, things have changed since then. TCU played for a National Championship a few months ago. The teams listed that left the BIG XII for "greener" pastures haven't come close to sniffing a champion since leaving the conference.

Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

SEC defenses don't face good quarterbacks and therefore can't adjust to Big12 players? Wut????? Did you watch UGA swat TCU like a fly with the morning newspaper? How about what they did to Hendon Hooker? What did Alabama do to Kyler Murray? What did LSU do to Jalen Hurts? I could go on…

2019 LSU defense wasn't great? They stepped up and made the necessary plays and finished ranked inside the top 25 in a number of rankings. Our 2015 defense did not finish inside the top 25. Name a national championship winner with a defense ranked outside the top 25? I'll save everyone the trouble- none.

If Russell stays healthy could we have been a threat for the title? Certainly. Like that Mayfield led OU team or TCU this past season. Getting 2 wins would have been very difficult though as both of them showed.

… against our 3rd string QB. You honestly think they beat Bu with Russell playing QB in McClane?

IowaBear said:

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… against our 3rd string QB. You honestly think they beat Bu with Russell playing QB in McClane?

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Stidham was 2nd. And a very distinct possibility with that defense, and especially that secondary.

Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Embarrassment means a feeling of shame. We lose to blue blood without our best player, have an injured second-stringer replacing him in his second start and we are probably one play away from winning.

And you think that is shameful?

How do you feel about last year's results?

Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Embarrassment means a feeling of shame. We lose to blue blood without our best player, have an injured second-stringer replacing him in his second start and we are probably one play away from winning.

And you think that is shameful?

How do you feel about last year's results?

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I mean move the goal posts all you want and play semantics, it doesn't change the fact that game OU showed there were big weaknesses. And did embarass us in our house. Sterling Shepard went almost uncovered the whole night is one example from that game.

historian said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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Baylor was ranked #2 in the nation for 3 weeks, if I recall. It's the highest we have ever been ranked & it was fun to watch. But it was mostly against subpar teams. By the time we played ranked teams, Russell was out & our ranking had fallen. Still, Stidham had an amazing debut in Manhattan & played quite well against OU despite being practically body slammed by an OU defender early in the game. Our offense was outstanding & our defense played very well, in spurts. But we lost. Chris Johnson had a great second half in Stillwater & led us to victory, our first there in almost 80 years, building upon what the rest of the team had done in the first half. It was a very impressive game. Mason Rudolph was sacked so many times!! The TCU & Texas games were miserable experiences, the first mainly for the weather & the second largely because of the burnt orange officials, or so it seemed.

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It wasn't the officials that tried to run our offense with Lynx Hawthorn at quarterback for three quarters after Johnson went down. Having him throw 22 passes was a ridiculous decision, particularly with our running game that year.

They sure did show us our big weakness… that playing a 3rd string at QB makes it hard to beat good teams. Baylor rolls them with Russell at the helm. He would have carved them with his legs. I'm not denying BU had weaknesses. Every team does. But the reality is it took OU an entire game to pull away and win by 10 against essentially our 3rd string QB. You're acting like they destroyed us and that's just not accurate whatsoever

IowaBear said:

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They sure did show us our big weakness… that playing a 3rd string at QB makes it hard to beat good teams. Baylor rolls them with Russell at the helm. He would have carved them with his legs

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Stidham was 2nd on the depth chart and already started the @KSU game the week before. He played the whole OU game.

He played hurt the whole game. There's a huge difference between Stidham and Russell. Seth was killing teams with his legs, when he got hurt we lost that dimension. That dimension made us virtually unstoppable.
Side note I was at that Thursday nighter vs KSU and that atmosphere was incredible

IowaBear said:

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He played hurt the whole game. There's a huge difference between Stidham and Russell. Seth was killing teams with his legs, when he got hurt we lost that dimension. That dimension made us virtually unstoppable.
Side note I was at that Thursday nighter vs KSU and that atmosphere was incredible

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KSU has always had a great atmosphere. I like watching them when we aren't playing them.

Hard to say, because as others have pointed out, Seth was great at destroying bad to mediocre teams. OU would've been his first big test against a peer potential CFP team with a defense. That I do wish we could've seen.

I go down to Manhattan every time Bu plays there. Always enjoy the trip

IowaBear said:

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I go down to Manhattan every time Bzu plays there. Always enjoy the trip

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One CAB quote I remember was about playing at KSU and how the atmosphere is great but also how hard it is to play there. I always know it's gonna be a slobberknocker of a game there no matter how good Baylor is. And their stadium is really cool.

Yup stadium is really nice. And generally their fans are some of the nicest in the B12 if not the nicest. Been going there with my old man and grandpa for awhile now. This fall will be our 6th trip down there

boykin_spaniel said:

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SEC defenses don't face good quarterbacks and therefore can't adjust to Big12 players? Wut????? Did you watch UGA swat TCU like a fly with the morning newspaper? How about what they did to Hendon Hooker? What did Alabama do to Kyler Murray? What did LSU do to Jalen Hurts? I could go on…

2019 LSU defense wasn't great? They stepped up and made the necessary plays and finished ranked inside the top 25 in a number of rankings. Our 2015 defense did not finish inside the top 25. Name a national championship winner with a defense ranked outside the top 25? I'll save everyone the trouble- none.

If Russell stays healthy could we have been a threat for the title? Certainly. Like that Mayfield led OU team or TCU this past season. Getting 2 wins would have been very difficult though as both of them showed.

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Agreed. This was exactly my point (other than the last section, where I believe Baylor would have certainly been a threat for the CFP, even though not likely a threat to either Clemson or Alabama).

Saban hadn't quite figured out stopping new aged spread attacks which would've been interesting to watch but sadly it's all in theory. The past is done. I'm more likely to travel through a wormhole like Interstellar than see a healthy 2015 Baylor play Alabama

historian said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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Didn't he basically break his ankle or get body slammed and never the same after the first series driving to score? I recall a 15 yard penalty in a Jim McMahon type body slam by ou

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Yeah. Seems like a team that Oklahoma was gonna roll with a healthy stidham. And imagine if qb1 was available and full strength

Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Such a weird ass take

Fre3dombear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Such a weird ass take

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Not really. Trying to play it up as a "great" loss is though.

Bear8084 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Such a weird ass take

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Not really. Trying to play it up as a "great" loss is though.

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Talk to whoever is doing that then.

That was a rare win for ou against baylor in those years and they celebrated like they won the super bowl. They didn't even believe it was possible against QB2/3

Bear8084 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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That is one idiotic take there. We were down three midway through the fourth quarter. If it for the horse collar on the Mayfield sack we win that game.

Embarrassed? Laughable

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Yet with all the talk of swagger, OU came in and won by double digits and broke a 20 game home win streak. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.

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Such a weird ass take

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Not really. Trying to play it up as a "great" loss is though.

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LOL man calling it a double digit win saying we got embarrassed to frame it as a blow out. It was a one score game until the very end, while we were playing with an injured backup freshman QB. We would have won easily with Seth, and most likely with a healthy Stidham

"If..."

Bear8084 said:

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"If..."

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The whole premise of this thread was trying to evaluate how good Baylor 2015 (and the program) was before the injury to Seth. It was likely the best Baylor team ever and ranked very highly. Many also commented on the recruiting momentum we had as well as national cred.

Whether we win a championship or are "just" in the playoff discussion in 2015 is all speculation. The fact that we're in the discussion year in and year out in those days was good enough for me. To nitpick that we weren't a championship team in 2015 is just a symptom of Briles derangement syndrome.

You put quotes as though I used that word

OsosDelRioBrazos said:

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You put quotes as though I used that word

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If this happened or that. Same thing.

bear2be2 said:

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Ghostrider said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I think I read this is their sixth appearance in the CWS. We have seriously fallen behind TCU in everything except possibly basketball.

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Or basketball program is much better. Putting the word "possibly" in there is a joke.

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We were 1 and 1 against them last year and that win was due to to a large comeback. We are better, but not much.

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That was one particular team one particular season, not a program. Our program is vastly superior.

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. We'll see what direction we are going next year.

Ghostrider said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Ghostrider said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I think I read this is their sixth appearance in the CWS. We have seriously fallen behind TCU in everything except possibly basketball.

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Or basketball program is much better. Putting the word "possibly" in there is a joke.

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We were 1 and 1 against them last year and that win was due to to a large comeback. We are better, but not much.

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That was one particular team one particular season, not a program. Our program is vastly superior.

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. We'll see what direction we are going next year.

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Yeah it's a question of if this is the Rodriguez era of baylor football or can we get back to sugar bowl level football

2015 OU game was our first ever loss at McLane Stadium. It also was the first loss of a game featuring an appearance of the Sign.

BTW I don't know what the most opposing ppg was by a national champion but LSU's 2019 defense ranked 32nd in that category. Alabama's 2020 defense ranked 13th.

Fre3dombear said:

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historian said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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IowaBear said:

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We beat Okie St in Stillwater with Chris freaking Johnson playing QB… that was a top 10 OSU team btw… yes a healthy Russell and the Bears roll through the B12. They were ranked #2 in the land prior to his injury. So I'm not the only one who thought BU was loaded

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But got embarrassed at home by OU with our 5-star 2nd stringer the game before.

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Didn't he basically break his ankle or get body slammed and never the same after the first series driving to score? I recall a 15 yard penalty in a Jim McMahon type body slam by ou

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Yeah. Seems like a team that Oklahoma was gonna roll with a healthy stidham. And imagine if qb1 was available and full strength

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Man, those were good times!

UBBY said:

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BTW I don't know what the most opposing ppg was by a national champion but LSU's 2019 defense ranked 32nd in that category. Alabama's 2020 defense ranked 13th.

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PPG is outdated as a definitive offensive or defensive rating system. Case in point - frequently playing better offenses would, generally, result in allowing more points than a team frequently playing worse offenses even though the disparity would solely be because of schedule differences. That's why modern ranking systems account for opponents.

Baylor actually played very well in the 2015 OU game, especially considering the circumstances. If anyone doubts that, they should re-watch the game. It would be best to watch the entire game, but here is an excellent abridged version for those who cannot:

KB has been somewhat disappointing as an Offensive coordinator. Yes, flashes of success, but nothing sustained. I truly thought he would be a P5 head coach by now.
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