Here is Baylor's Letter To Briles

141,437 Views | 978 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Malbec
Malbec
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Keyser Soze said:

That is fair ( but I certainly think he made it up )

lens (normal person) = sampling

lens (conspiracy crowd) = cherry picking
specific (normal person) = precise
specific (blinders on) = random

Can you name one single case presented by PH to the BOR that didn't involve a football player or athlete? That is not "..an independent external review of Baylor's response to Title IX and related compliance issues through the lens of specific cases." That is a "review of Baylor's response to Title IX compliance issues within the football program." And further, the final product was really just a "review of the Baylor football program's response to Title IX issues within the football program."
Southtxbear
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I have spoken to several students and younger alums and they are in shock. They don't understand why Baylor is losing. They have never seen it. Or they think this is just a blip and we will be doing as well, if not better, in a year or two compared to Briles 9 and 10 win seasons. It's unbelievable how almost a generation doesn't understand how bad we use to be.
Aberzombie1892
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Malbec said:

Keyser Soze said:

That is fair ( but I certainly think he made it up )

lens (normal person) = sampling

lens (conspiracy crowd) = cherry picking
specific (normal person) = precise
specific (blinders on) = random

Can you name one single case presented by PH to the BOR that didn't involve a football player or athlete? That is not "..an independent external review of Baylor's response to Title IX and related compliance issues through the lens of specific cases." That is a "review of Baylor's response to Title IX compliance issues within the football program." And further, the final product was really just a "review of the Baylor football program's response to Title IX issues within the football program."

Well, Baylor's Findings of Fact indicates that all sexual assaults that were reported through the student conduct processes were reviewed by PH. While that document does have an emphasis on the football program, PH's review was not limited to alleged assaults related to football.

"A high-level audit was conducted of all known reports of sexual harassment and sexual assault reported through Baylor's student conduct processes for three academic years: 2012-2013, 2013-2014, and 2014-2015."

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf
Malbec
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I appreciate the regurgitation of regent prose, but that's really not the question I asked was it? Not being snippy with you, but what PH was charged to do, what they did and what they reported in front of the board are three entirely different things. An "audit of all known reports" is not the same as "..an independent external review.... through the lens of specific cases."

I would also submit that what PH was told to do, and what the Board told us that PH was charged to do, are also not one and the same.
xiledinok
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Or it could be that the staff screwed up to the point the head coach was terminated and paid off to keep all the sins in the closet including his staff's sins to the point they wouldn't be able to coach again if sins were made public.

It is why Reagan Ramsower gets sxit hurled at him but the Briles crew won't get into details. Apparently, truth don't want all details to be made public.
Aberzombie1892
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Well, your question was, "Can you name one single case presented by PH to the BOR that didn't involve a football player or athlete?"

The answer to the question is, from the information released, no, no one can for certain, but the publicly available information indicates with virtual certainty that PH did in fact review and present incidents that involved allegations of sexual assault outside of athletics. Of course, if one believes that all of the reported assaults that took place from 2012-2015 only involved athletes, then they will disagree, but that is an unreasonable assumption to make.
xiIedinok
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xiledinok said:

Or it could be that the staff screwed up to the point the head coach was terminated and paid off to keep all the sins in the closet including his staff's sins to the point they wouldn't be able to coach again if sins were made public.

It is why Reagan Ramsower gets sxit hurled at him but the Briles crew won't get into details. Apparently, truth don't want all details to be made public.
Right, because that makes so much sense
Chanceux
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BearackObama said:

xiledinok said:

Or it could be that the staff screwed up to the point the head coach was terminated and paid off to keep all the sins in the closet including his staff's sins to the point they wouldn't be able to coach again if sins were made public.

It is why Reagan Ramsower gets sxit hurled at him but the Briles crew won't get into details. Apparently, truth don't want all details to be made public.
Right, because that makes so much sense
It makes some sense, though I couldn't tell you if it involves sexual assaults or something else. I'm sure that they have also been apprised of that ol' notion that keeping quiet and moving on is best. Whatever happened, all that's been said is all that will be said.
D. C. Bear
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BearackObama said:

xiledinok said:

Or it could be that the staff screwed up to the point the head coach was terminated and paid off to keep all the sins in the closet including his staff's sins to the point they wouldn't be able to coach again if sins were made public.

It is why Reagan Ramsower gets sxit hurled at him but the Briles crew won't get into details. Apparently, truth don't want all details to be made public.
Right, because that makes so much sense
Yeah, seems like paid off to keep all the sins in the closet including his staff's sins to the point they wouldn't be able to coach again if sins were made public would be a good reason not to pay someone off. It's not like they would go dragging their own sins out of the closet unless you paid them not to do so.
GG1234
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I have proof PH fed the BOR false information. I suspect they did it to get a drastic reaction and that is what they got.
The main scene they painted for the BOR was the conversation between Barnes and Briles about the gang rape case. They clearly gave false information and this fueled a big part of the "Briles hid info and didn't report". Including the false statement of "Bad dudes" repeated at nausem. It's not what was said.

Hopefully eventually it will come out and be heard rather than the constant hatred based on lies.
Doc Holliday
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GG1234 said:

I have proof PH fed the BOR false information.
Please release this proof.
xiledinok
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It makes perfect sense. It is why you losers make asses out of yourselves on a worldwide level, bark and throw out a bunch of disinformation then sue and dismiss.
What is there to hide?
xiledinok
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People pay off each other all the time under these circumstances.

The regents and Art ain t angling for the public to know what is up. The letter exchange sure didn't look good for both parties.
Boatshoes
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Keyser Soze said:


Just for those who need more, a University can do T9 right or wrong, and a student can later be found innocent in a criminal court. A University can do T9 right or wrong, and a student can later be found guilty in a criminal court. The outcome of the criminal court or even absence of a criminal court really had no impact on PH's report of Baylor's T9 compliance.

Anyone who is holding his hand up and saying "look how few convictions" is telling the world he really does not understand the issues.
1. The Dear Colleague letter has been repudiated by the new administration. So Baylor would have been better of lawyering up and challenging it directly in court.

2. This is America. You're innocent of a crime until proven guilty in a court of law, not in front of some tribunal. The lack of charges and convictions to support the allegation of a widespread criminal scandal undermines the charge that a widespread criminal scandal existed to begin with.
GG1234
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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

GG1234 said:

I have proof PH fed the BOR false information.
Please release this proof.


It has been. The thing is this proof has been told to most of the media and not 1 of them reported it. They were selling to many papers with the lies. There is proof of this as well. If you notice some long time media critics have now become quiet because they've been made aware of this. Problem is the public happily keeps repeating the lies.

Briles has it. It may open a door for him. Or at least allow for some peace.
NoBSU
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Keyser Soze said:

Malbec said:

Keyser Soze said:




The guilt or innocence of the accused is not a relevant factor.

The issue is how Baylor responded to accusations. Even a false accusation creates an obligation to investigate. The results of an investigation are not important, only that there was an investigation. an appropriate response


Also "the BOR fed Pepper Hamilton a few specific cases" you just made up - stop
That is far from the truth. The results of the investigation are the trigger for the institution's most important duty under Title IX; to provide accommodation to the discriminated. It is the minutia of the evidence presented in the investigation that is immaterial (or should have been) to PH. The only concerns should have been: was the allegation investigated, and if a connected party was found responsible, did the university provide proper accommodation?

That's better



That's not better it is flat out wrong. Malbec is misleading here or just flat out wrong. The accommodations start at the complaint not after an investigation. Accommodations = no contact letter, change in class schedule if the are in the same section or nearby classes, counseling. Simple accommodations for a university of Baylor's size. Hiring a huge counseling staff (not just for sexual assault) is certainly less costly than our outcome. The expensive one that you may want to delay until after a resolution is a change in housing.

From the Garland deposition, scenario that female went to Baylor Health Center after a rape. No rape kits so refer to free clinic for STD. My employer would say, call ambulance. Let female decline transport to a trauma center if she chooses. Report complaint to Title IX coordinator. Done. T9 coordinator contacts. Starts a file and looks at necessary accommodations. This is a non-event.
NoBSU
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Applemac_G4 said:

Keyser Soze said:


Just for those who need more, a University can do T9 right or wrong, and a student can later be found innocent in a criminal court. A University can do T9 right or wrong, and a student can later be found guilty in a criminal court. The outcome of the criminal court or even absence of a criminal court really had no impact on PH's report of Baylor's T9 compliance.

Anyone who is holding his hand up and saying "look how few convictions" is telling the world he really does not understand the issues.
1. The Dear Colleague letter has been repudiated by the new administration. So Baylor would have been better of lawyering up and challenging it directly in court.

2. This is America. You're innocent of a crime until proven guilty in a court of law, not in front of some tribunal. The lack of charges and convictions to support the allegation of a widespread criminal scandal undermines the charge that a widespread criminal scandal existed to begin with.

Sure. This is America. A private school like Baylor doesn't have to wait for a criminal court to act to rid themselves of a violent student.
Keyser Soze
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So what is stopping you from sharing this proof here and now?
D. C. Bear
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Keyser Soze said:

So what is stopping you from sharing this proof here and now?


Excellent question.

Much like what I began to wonder about the BOR soon after I read their Findings of Fact.
57Bear
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NoBSU said:


Sure. This is America. A private school like Baylor doesn't have to wait for a criminal court to act to rid themselves of a violent student.
You are correct. Baylor demonstrated that ability when they got rid of Jeremy Faulk. BOR does not require truth to support its decisions!
Fozzie
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GG1234 said:

I have proof PH fed the BOR false information. I suspect they did it to get a drastic reaction and that is what they got.
The main scene they painted for the BOR was the conversation between Barnes and Briles about the gang rape case. They clearly gave false information and this fueled a big part of the "Briles hid info and didn't report". Including the false statement of "Bad dudes" repeated at nausem. It's not what was said.

Hopefully eventually it will come out and be heard rather than the constant hatred based on lies.
it was on a text message from Art. You are saying they fabricated that text message and Art can disprove it?
Keyser Soze
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57Bear said:

NoBSU said:


Sure. This is America. A private school like Baylor doesn't have to wait for a criminal court to act to rid themselves of a violent student.
You are correct. Baylor demonstrated that ability when they got rid of Jeremy Faulk. BOR does not require truth to support its decisions!

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20537597/another-title-ix-lawsuit-filed-baylor-bears

One more settlement under the radar - this one is believed to be associated with Faulk
xiledinok
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There was a reason no other school took Faulk or Autry.
Faulk isn't trying out for the NFL if he's a bad ass with no issues.
He is starting somewhere in the SEC.
Forest Bueller
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80sBEAR said:

xiledinok said:

Even with all the title IX mistakes, it doesn't make up for the stupid and bad decisions on many parts of the athletic department and our former head coach.
By the way, he cannot even get hired as an offense of coordinator in another country. He is done and no one credible outside the bubble wants to associate with him business wise. I think that is a finding of fact.
Football is finished at Baylor.

This is what most folks are not coming to terms with. There is a lot of Pollyanna going on right now on 365.

An 0fer or 1 win this year, will cause mass defection of recruits, next year won't be much better, then here comes realignment and the Bears are done with major college football.

That bowl game against North Carolina Dec. 2015, was a thing of beauty. That may be the last great moment in Baylor football.
By the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved.
Malbec
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NoBSU said:




That's not better it is flat out wrong. Malbec is misleading here or just flat out wrong. The accommodations start at the complaint not after an investigation. Accommodations = no contact letter, change in class schedule if the are in the same section or nearby classes, counseling. Simple accommodations for a university of Baylor's size. Hiring a huge counseling staff (not just for sexual assault) is certainly less costly than our outcome. The expensive one that you may want to delay until after a resolution is a change in housing.

From the Garland deposition, scenario that female went to Baylor Health Center after a rape. No rape kits so refer to free clinic for STD. My employer would say, call ambulance. Let female decline transport to a trauma center if she chooses. Report complaint to Title IX coordinator. Done. T9 coordinator contacts. Starts a file and looks at necessary accommodations. This is a non-event.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over accommodation. You have been purposely misleading for quite a while now. First, there is no requirement under Title IX to provide accommodation prior to a determination of responsibility. An institution may choose to provide temporary accommodation, but is not required by law to do so. Even if the institution decides to offer some type of accommodation for a complainant, that accommodation (schedule changes, housing assignments, protection orders) are not permanent, and are reassessed upon the disposition of the case. These post-disposition accommodations are dependent on those results and might include such things as suspension or expulsion for cases involving students, termination, suspension or probation for cases involving staff, or disassociation and banishment for affiliated personnel (like vendors or contractors that work on campus).

NoBSU, the context of my post was in regards to the notion that the determination of responsibility was irrelevant in regards to an investigation of Title IX procedures, and my response was specific to that notion. I was not misleading anyone, everything I said was true, and Keyser certainly understood that, and I am appreciative of his intellectual honesty in that regard.
NoBSU
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57Bear said:

NoBSU said:


Sure. This is America. A private school like Baylor doesn't have to wait for a criminal court to act to rid themselves of a violent student.
You are correct. Baylor demonstrated that ability when they got rid of Jeremy Faulk. BOR does not require truth to support its decisions!

Actually the "process" was working with Faulk. Title IX was investigating and Financial Aid reviewed and ruled he could have his athletic scholarship. So the Title IX process which I was commenting on was not the culprit as Applemac_G4 fears.

I don't remember if Faulk is the one that a regent allegedly called Crawford at home on a Sunday for the name or if he was the one that RR demanded the information from her.
bearlyafarmer
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Lost in the shuffle is the fact that CAB was scapegoated by the BoR, as clearly shown by the letter of exoneration he received from Baylor general counsel.

Y'all are welcome. No, really, don't mention it.
Life is more about asking the right questions than giving the right answers.
GG1234
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Fozzie said:

GG1234 said:

I have proof PH fed the BOR false information. I suspect they did it to get a drastic reaction and that is what they got.
The main scene they painted for the BOR was the conversation between Barnes and Briles about the gang rape case. They clearly gave false information and this fueled a big part of the "Briles hid info and didn't report". Including the false statement of "Bad dudes" repeated at nausem. It's not what was said.

Hopefully eventually it will come out and be heard rather than the constant hatred based on lies.
it was on a text message from Art. You are saying they fabricated that text message and Art can disprove it?


It wasn't from a text message. It was what PH told the BOR Briles said to Barnes. PH twisted every word to make their pitch to the BOR.
Amarillobear
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GG1234 said:

Fozzie said:

GG1234 said:

I have proof PH fed the BOR false information. I suspect they did it to get a drastic reaction and that is what they got.
The main scene they painted for the BOR was the conversation between Barnes and Briles about the gang rape case. They clearly gave false information and this fueled a big part of the "Briles hid info and didn't report". Including the false statement of "Bad dudes" repeated at nausem. It's not what was said.

Hopefully eventually it will come out and be heard rather than the constant hatred based on lies.
it was on a text message from Art. You are saying they fabricated that text message and Art can disprove it?


It wasn't from a text message. It was what PH told the BOR Briles said to Barnes. PH twisted every word to make their pitch to the BOR

Did PH interview any of the coaches or players or did they just come to their conclusions by talking to the BOR or others?
I am a Baylor letterman, a Baylor graduate and I love Baylor.
NoBSU
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Malbec said:

NoBSU said:




That's not better it is flat out wrong. Malbec is misleading here or just flat out wrong. The accommodations start at the complaint not after an investigation. Accommodations = no contact letter, change in class schedule if the are in the same section or nearby classes, counseling. Simple accommodations for a university of Baylor's size. Hiring a huge counseling staff (not just for sexual assault) is certainly less costly than our outcome. The expensive one that you may want to delay until after a resolution is a change in housing.

From the Garland deposition, scenario that female went to Baylor Health Center after a rape. No rape kits so refer to free clinic for STD. My employer would say, call ambulance. Let female decline transport to a trauma center if she chooses. Report complaint to Title IX coordinator. Done. T9 coordinator contacts. Starts a file and looks at necessary accommodations. This is a non-event.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over accommodation. You have been purposely misleading for quite a while now. First, there is no requirement under Title IX to provide accommodation prior to a determination of responsibility. An institution may choose to provide temporary accommodation, but is not required by law to do so. Even if the institution decides to offer some type of accommodation for a complainant, that accommodation (schedule changes, housing assignments, protection orders) are not permanent, and are reassessed upon the disposition of the case. These post-disposition accommodations are dependent on those results and might include such things as suspension or expulsion for cases involving students, termination, suspension or probation for cases involving staff, or disassociation and banishment for affiliated personnel (like vendors or contractors that work on campus).

NoBSU, the context of my post was in regards to the notion that the determination of responsibility was irrelevant in regards to an investigation of Title IX procedures, and my response was specific to that notion. I was not misleading anyone, everything I said was true, and Keyser certainly understood that, and I am appreciative of his intellectual honesty in that regard.


I am not trying to get into a pissing contest or mislead. I don't think that I am doing either. I understand your interpretation of the law. My own political thoughts agree with most of the opinions of Title IX on this board.

The best practice to avoid plaintiff attorneys and settlements is a different story than your legal interpretation. The fact is that other schools had a plan and training in place on 2013. That plan included early accomodations. My employer did. All employees report. Accommodations are available immediately if needed. Those are a glaring items missing from practice at Baylor - employee training and immediate support. I am not misleading people to say that other schools do this. They do. I am not misleading people to point out that Baylor's judicial affairs ruled on student conduct. The problems at Baylor were not Kangaroo courts and failing to act once they reached a verdict. The end game was not the problem.

The problems at Baylor that created the need to settle cases that we probably could have won in court is that our front game didn't look anything like what others were doing. http://stopsexualviolence.iu.edu/employee/employee-faq.html#faq3

So we had no defense in the media. We looked like hypocrites with Garland's constant reference to our Christian Mission. So we wrote a lot of checks.

Bear8084
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Mr. Goodbear said:

D. C. Bear said:

80sBEAR said:

D. C. Bear said:

80sBEAR said:

xiledinok said:

Even with all the title IX mistakes, it doesn't make up for the stupid and bad decisions on many parts of the athletic department and our former head coach.
By the way, he cannot even get hired as an offense of coordinator in another country. He is done and no one credible outside the bubble wants to associate with him business wise. I think that is a finding of fact.
Briles and his staff certainly could have handled things better. Most major college programs have similar problems and issues, but don't see dismantling the football program as the solution. Football is finished at Baylor. Our leadership chose this. It is what it is. Things change. Time to move on.


No, it isn't.
We will have a team. As far as being relevant in major college football, we will not be. It will be a time when alums can gather at Homecoming once a year and get together. We may get to a bowl game every five or six years. Not sure if you know it or not, but Parents Weekend was last weekend, while football was out of town. Now they call it Family Weekend. First time in forever I can remember that happening but that is just another message that is being sent by Baylor. We are not an institution of football. Baylor is making that pretty clear. I don't like it, but that is reality.


The institution is spending like it wants to be a relevant major college football program. If we are not relevant it will be because of failures on the part of our coaches, and they can be replaced.
Not sure if you understand how difficult it is to find a coach the caliber of Briles. We didn't even know how good Briles was until after his 1st season. Briles turned out to be a top 4 coach in the nation. It took us a hundred years to find the caliber of coach. Don't tell me about Teaff. Teaff was good for Baylor, but not great. I don't want to be a .500 team that may occasionally beat a top team or make a bowl game. I want to be that team that is a top contender where recruits want to attend and we are supposed to win and make bowl games. We may go through another 10 coaches before we find that "guy." You probably won't even be alive by the time we find anyone comparable to Briles.


After his first season? Try like after his 3rd and into the 4th season up to the OU game before online fans started to notice how good Briles was. That's when the posts shifted on BFans from "Fire Briles because he can't win against a ranked team" to more positive ones about his coaching.

Agreed it is hard to find a Coach that can take us to those heights again, but not impossible as some of the pessimists think on here. I am still giving CMR this season to show slme positive strides before writing him off completely.
OldSchoolBU
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bearlyafarmer said:

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that CAB was scapegoated by the BoR, as clearly shown by the letter of exoneration he received from Baylor general counsel.

Y'all are welcome. No, really, don't mention it.
you are not really that big of a simpleton are you?
The past is last! Be a champion today!
80sBEAR
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OldSchoolBU said:

bearlyafarmer said:

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that CAB was scapegoated by the BoR, as clearly shown by the letter of exoneration he received from Baylor general counsel.

Y'all are welcome. No, really, don't mention it.
you are not really that big of a simpleton are you?
It was Baylor's letter, not his. Briles will coach again, -just a matter of time. At least that's what most of us "simpletons" believe.
quash
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bearlyafarmer said:

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that CAB was scapegoated by the BoR, as clearly shown by the letter of exoneration he received from Baylor general counsel.

Y'all are welcome. No, really, don't mention it.

That is far from an exoneration letter.
Robemcdo
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Just trying to understand this

Art said he did not ignore cries for help. In 60 years he was never accused of such . His employer writes a letter that says the same . However a 'lawyer' representing a group of individuals that have a history of shady dealings throw some random words on a piece of paper and the loyal Baylor faithful choose to believe them and a few instant millionaires that have based their whole reason for entitlement on their pleas being ignored .

Did I miss anything here?
 
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