This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

It's shocking that we won a P5 level conference title and also won the Sugar Bowl over a 10 win SEC program in dominating fashion less than 2 years ago and today we have the roster talent, size, and athleticism of a midlin G5 school - if even that. And there is no out of left field external excuse for it (like some kind of massive scandal, etc.). In our present state, it doesn't really matter what offense we're running or who our OC is - we don't have the athletes to be successful against steady P5 competition.

It seems as though Baylor and Kansas have swapped places.

Johnny Bear said:

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It's shocking that we won a P5 level conference title and also won the Sugar Bowl over a 10 win SEC program in dominating fashion less than 2 years ago and today we have the roster talent, size, and athleticism of a midlin G5 school - if even that. And there is no out of left field external excuse for it (like some kind of massive scandal, etc.). In our present state, it doesn't really matter what offense we're running or who our OC is - we don't have the athletes to be successful against steady P5 competition.

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This is exactly how I feel. I think the state of our program rests entirely in the state of our recruiting. And don't get me wrong, that is entirely our coaching staff's fault.

But I just don't feel like in game decisions, culture, conservative play calling, reckless play calling, or any of that is why we are losing like this. We don't have the dudes.

A good coach will scheme for the players he/she has.

We recruited dudes who were also recruited by G5 schools. It might work if we were good at developing players, but from what I've seen we are not.
Briles and Rhule could develop players. This staff cannot.

DoubleBearClaw said:

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A good coach will scheme for the players he/she has.

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If your players are not good, it does not matter what scheme you run or how good of a coach you are. Otherwise, Bill Belichik would have a Super Bowl contender every year. But he doesn't. Because other teams also have good coaches and they have better players.

Bandito said:

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We recruited dudes who were also recruited by G5 schools. It might work if we were good at developing players, but from what I've seen we are not.
Briles and Rhule could develop players. This staff cannot.

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I agree that you can develop G5 type players with high upside into great players. But you have to have a staff that can develop and that can't be your entire roster.

Briles and Rhule also brought in a few blue chip recruits as well (or nowadays, attack the transfer portal, if you can't get the high school talent). When you are a school in the middle of the pack nationally (perception wise), like pretty much all of the leftover Big 12 schools will be, then you need that balance.

We don't have it.

Oso Pardo said:

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It seems as though Baylor and Kansas have swapped places.

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Yep. I never thought the day would come when I would be envious of KU's football team - but here we are. And the only reason our lengthy winning streak over them will stay intact for the time being is because we don't play them this season.

We have some dudes and they zombie walk every game. Players look lost and unassuming. Culture is a problem. Against Utah and Texas State our defense frequently got to the QB or ball carrier and simply didn't make the tackle. Coaching, not dudes.

Now as far as the offensive line and secondary…

guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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There was an entire thread a few weeks back which detailed why Grimes will not be successful. You cannot run this type of offense in college successfully and consistently. You have to have the right personnel, and you have to have them in the system long enough to learn it correctly. We don't have the right dudes, and they have not all been in the system for 4 years, so it's a colossal failure.

It may work in the NFL where dudes could be with you for 5-10 years, but it won't work in college. We need to abandon this strategy, as well as Grimes who does not show the ability to move away from it.

boykin_spaniel said:

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We have some dudes and they zombie walk every game. Players look lost and unassuming. Culture is a problem. Against Utah and Texas State our defense frequently got to the QB or ball carrier and simply didn't make the tackle. Coaching, not dudes.

Now as far as the offensive line and secondary…

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I think our culture could use some improvement for sure. And our lack of enthusiasm and effort is definitely a culture problem on the coaches part. But there are plenty of programs with a bad culture that would not lose to Texas State or have looked as uncompetitive as we looked on Saturday against Texas.

There is room for improvement in a lot of areas. But I think the biggest culprit is a lack of talent and development.

hodedofome said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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There was an entire thread a few weeks back which detailed why Grimes will not be successful. You cannot run this type of offense in college successfully and consistently. You have to have the right personnel, and you have to have them in the system long enough to learn it correctly. We don't have the right dudes, and they have not all been in the system for 4 years, so it's a colossal failure.

It may work in the NFL where dudes could be with you for 5-10 years, but it won't work in college. We need to abandon this strategy, as well as Grimes who does not show the ability to move away from it.

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We won a Big 12 championship with good players who had only been in this system for 1 (one) year. I understand that alot of those players were upperclassmen with lots of experience and had been developed under Rhule's system and S&C program. My point remains the same: we had good players then and we won; we don't have good players now and we're getting beat like a tied dog. Good players win games. Sure Grimes system isn't perfect, and he could definitely improve on play calling under certain types of scenarios. But again, I don't think he's the reason that this team looks so god-awful.

Edit: and yes, I agree with you in that I think Grimes' system probably has a ceiling in how effective it is and the long-term efficacy of it, but I don't think that ceiling is so low and that it is so dated that we should look completely outmatched by Texas State and uncompetitive against teams like Texas.

guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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Your first paragraph is an indictment of him. What makes an offensive coach a genius is adapting your system to the personal. We once had a guy coach our team to a win in a bowl game without a college QB

We had a senior heavy team with experience and Rhule era toughness the year we won the Big 12 & sugar bowl. Last year, we suffered from heavy graduation losses, but still had the confidence of a Big 12 champion until mid year. Then with injuries and inexperience on defense we crapped the bed the rest of the year. More departures to the portal without adequate replacement put BU in the shape they are in today. Recruiting three-star HS kids and developing them into BiG12 ready players takes 2-3 years. Other teams went heavy with the portal for needed skill, talent and maturity. To me, this is where Aranda missed the boat. He waited too long to embrace the portal and was too selective with the person over player bs. He took four or five guys from the portal last year, and needed 15 to be competitive. He is staring at a 2-3 win season now, and is looking at a total rebuild and firing coordinators won't solve the problem.

ImwithBU said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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Your first paragraph is an indictment of him. What makes an offensive coach a genius is adapting your system to the personal. We once had a guy coach our team to a win in a bowl game without a college QB

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I think genius is the exception not the rule. Briles was a genius. We can't replace that.

I would say you tailor your gameplan to your personnel, and you tweak your system. But you don't just completely switch your offensive scheme around based on having bad players.

Briles didn't change our offensive system for that game either, he just tweaked the gameplan. We ran a lot of our same run packages that game, just out of the wildcat. Our offensive line did not have to make major adjustments to their normal routine, and our running backs did not have to necessarily make completely different reads than normal, other than when they lined up in the wildcat - which they had a solid month to do nothing but practice that prior to using it for ONE GAME against ONE SPECIFIC opponent.

But maybe you guys are all correct. We have good players, our coaches are just terrible.

Please tell me what offensive system you think this current roster would be equipped to run and would be sure to win at least 6 games.

Grimes: " I have ribeyes and russets. We're having steak and taters."

Also Grimes: "I have lobster, asparagus and wild rice. We're having steak and taters."

guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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It will be funny when Shapen returns, our offense reaches a competent level (not great but competent) and there are still 12 Grimes threads for every one about our defense, which has been BY FAR a bigger problem the last two years.

The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

bear2be2 said:

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The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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100%. People focus on offense because it is obvious.

I mentioned it in another post, but Bill Snyder ran an effective, fairly simple offense with talent that is equal to what Baylor has now, at least on paper. It's not just about running a scheme that is technically sound. Your scheme has to work for the talent that you currently have/are able to get, and you have to be able to recruit specifically for that scheme. Briles was about full speed ahead, Rhule wanted big, lanky, corn fed dudes with verifiable measurements. Aranda…. I honestly have no clue what the advantage is there.

Spot on! When Grimes did a run up the gut on 4th and 3 against UT armed with the knowledge that our weak O line was going up against one of the best D lines out there, that did it for me. He set us up to fail. Grimes cannot or will not adjust to the personnel we have. And for that alone he deserves to be fired. I still can't believe that stupid call, and that's just one of many. It's as if he has his plays all planned out for the next 5 years and will not deviate from them regardless of the circumstances.

I would agree with that. This whole thread is about how I don't think Grimes is the main issue.

GoodOleBaylorLine said:

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bear2be2 said:

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The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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100%. People focus on offense because it is obvious.

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The Offensive Line is by far our weakest unit - I happen to believe it is the most important unit on any football team. No one has success with young, undersized, slow o-lineman.

agree.

Development i agree on. Grimes system is tough to develop o-linemen for. They need 2-3 years in the system to be decent at it. We have one guy on that line with that level of experience. Our tight ends haven't improved in blocking. Tackling looks worse on defense. I was perplexed all last year why our corners lined 20 yards off the ball but after Texas State it was easy to see why. S&C is doing who knows what. We get injured, look tired, and don't look like a P5 team. Rhule had flaws but I recall a lot more videos of his dudes in the weight room and running sprints. The team crowded around someone going for a max bench. Everyone super amped for their teammate and taking that into their own workouts.

WA Jim said:

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GoodOleBaylorLine said:

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bear2be2 said:

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The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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100%. People focus on offense because it is obvious.

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The Offensive Line is by far our weakest unit - I happen to believe it is the most important unit on any football team. No one has success with young, undersized, slow o-lineman.

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Have you watched our safeties play this season? They're every bit as bad. And our linebackers aren't much better.

bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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GoodOleBaylorLine said:

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bear2be2 said:

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The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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100%. People focus on offense because it is obvious.

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The Offensive Line is by far our weakest unit - I happen to believe it is the most important unit on any football team. No one has success with young, undersized, slow o-lineman.

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Have you watched our safeties play this season? They're every bit as bad. And our linebackers aren't much better.

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Yeah, and Aranda is the one who decided to can Roberts and go with Powledge.

Aranda's failure to assemble and manage a staff is going to be his downfall.

And it's a canary in the coal mine to his ability to attract and manage the players.

bear2be2 said:

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It will be funny when Shapen returns, our offense reaches a competent level (not great but competent) and there are still 12 Grimes threads for every one about our defense, which has been BY FAR a bigger problem the last two years.

The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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we've seen regression. We were decent at stopping the run last year. Now kstate and ut gutted us with elite backs. This year we can't stop the run or pass

bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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GoodOleBaylorLine said:

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bear2be2 said:

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The path to improvement this year was paved through improvement to our defense, and we've seen none.

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100%. People focus on offense because it is obvious.

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The Offensive Line is by far our weakest unit - I happen to believe it is the most important unit on any football team. No one has success with young, undersized, slow o-lineman.

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Have you watched our safeties play this season? They're every bit as bad. And our linebackers aren't much better.

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Lots of missed tackles - awful

guadalupeoso said:

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ImwithBU said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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This may be a hot take, but I really don't think Grimes' play calling has been that bad this year. I think we just don't have the guys to execute on offense.

Recruiting and lack aggression in the transfer portal is what has put us in this position. I'll throw in lack of development in strength and conditioning as well. We just don't have the guys to push people around like we need for the wide zone to work. We also need a quarterback who can be decisive on rpo's. Gerry was not the most accurate qb and lacked touch on the deep ball, but he was a student of the game and a hard worker. Usually, he was able to make the right decision to either tuck and run or throw it. We don't have that in Richardson and it's yet to be seen if Shapen developed that over the summer.

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Your first paragraph is an indictment of him. What makes an offensive coach a genius is adapting your system to the personal. We once had a guy coach our team to a win in a bowl game without a college QB

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I think genius is the exception not the rule. Briles was a genius. We can't replace that.

I would say you tailor your gameplan to your personnel, and you tweak your system. But you don't just completely switch your offensive scheme around based on having bad players.

Briles didn't change our offensive system for that game either, he just tweaked the gameplan. We ran a lot of our same run packages that game, just out of the wildcat. Our offensive line did not have to make major adjustments to their normal routine, and our running backs did not have to necessarily make completely different reads than normal, other than when they lined up in the wildcat - which they had a solid month to do nothing but practice that prior to using it for ONE GAME against ONE SPECIFIC opponent.

But maybe you guys are all correct. We have good players, our coaches are just terrible.

Please tell me what offensive system you think this current roster would be equipped to run and would be sure to win at least 6 games.

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Well I thinks your are arguing the wrong point. I said adapt your system to the personnel. Not changed the whole system. How about some bubble screens to Baldwin or Jackson. Maybe a tunnel screen to a big WR like Cameron or at TE throwback to Dabney. Maybe get Reese out in the flat since your line cant hold a 5 foot step drop.

Clearly Im not a college coach or even a Pee Wee coach for that matter, but watching enough football we all pick up on a few things. These guys get paid hundreds of thousands or even millions to think of ways to help the players they recruit succeed.

The recruiting rankings are the same or maybe a tad better than Briles or Rhule.

I've posted this 100 times. It's a talent evaluation/player development issue.

This offensive line is horrific. And we have no playmakers at WR that can take it to the house ...Reese and Richardson might have that capability at RB but that line is trash.

Stefano DiMera said:

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The recruiting rankings are the same or maybe a tad better than Briles or Rhule.

I've posted this 100 times. It's a talent evaluation/player development issue.

This offensive line is horrific. And we have no playmakers at WR that can take it to the house ...Reese and Richardson might have that capability at RB but that line is trash.

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Correct
Its difficult to recruit top players into that situation

Exactly. Also add in the excitement and emotion factor. 28 yr olds getting paid will run a boring system with precision. No problem.

Younger guys need a system to get excited about. So do recruits. Totally different ball game.

sucks.