My god what a fucking speech

“If we die, we die” might be the greatest phrase of all-time to hear right before a football game

Just ready to go if that’s what the Gods wanted.

All for the boys. For honor. pic.twitter.com/AevFA8hAbT

— Will Compton (@_willcompton) October 12, 2023

Correct..all this ' we need to have a high flying offense because it's the only way to win' crowd is kinda pathetic.

As if Baylor can only win with gimmicky schemes .

We won with complimentary football under Rhule. Which by the way .right or wrong..is looked at more favorably by the folks on the CFB committee.

parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I never understand all the shxtting on CMR.

I would take him back right now. It sucked we were his stepping stone to the NFL....and he did have a little used car salesman to him (like a lot of successful HCs)...but he was good.

He gave us an identity, gave us toughness, knew how to hold leads, and was putting guys in the NFL. With Bell and Joey opening doors he eventually had THSCA singing his and Baylor's praises.

He made a lot of right moves and got us through a very precarious time when our program could have been set back 10 to 20 years.

---

I just assume everyone destroying Rhule for being a mercenary has never accepted a better job offer for more money, responsibility and prestige. Because otherwise they are the height of hypocrisy as they'd do the exact same thing in the exact same scenario. The only difference in this case is that they have green/gold glasses on.

Rhule took us to a conference title game two years after he got here while still mired in the aftershocks of one of the great CFB scandals of our time and laid the foundations for the greatest season in Baylor football history. As far as I'm concerned, that completely absolves him of any jilted lover fantasies so many on this board retain to this day.

---

I don't hate on Rhule for wanting to go to the NFL - he was always very clear on that. But when you start slacking off current job duties because you're concentrating on landing the new gig - yeah that's a problem.

So while you're right about what he did *for* Baylor, that doesn't magically absolve him of what he did *to* Baylor on his way out the door: it doesn't magically wave away his miss rate on recruiting over his last two years.

Russell Gym said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I never understand all the shxtting on CMR.

I would take him back right now. It sucked we were his stepping stone to the NFL....and he did have a little used car salesman to him (like a lot of successful HCs)...but he was good.

He gave us an identity, gave us toughness, knew how to hold leads, and was putting guys in the NFL. With Bell and Joey opening doors he eventually had THSCA singing his and Baylor's praises.

He made a lot of right moves and got us through a very precarious time when our program could have been set back 10 to 20 years.

---

I just assume everyone destroying Rhule for being a mercenary has never accepted a better job offer for more money, responsibility and prestige. Because otherwise they are the height of hypocrisy as they'd do the exact same thing in the exact same scenario. The only difference in this case is that they have green/gold glasses on.

Rhule took us to a conference title game two years after he got here while still mired in the aftershocks of one of the great CFB scandals of our time and laid the foundations for the greatest season in Baylor football history. As far as I'm concerned, that completely absolves him of any jilted lover fantasies so many on this board retain to this day.

---

I don't hate on Rhule for wanting to go to the NFL - he was always very clear on that. But when you start slacking off current job duties because you're concentrating on landing the new gig - yeah that's a problem.

So while you're right about what he did *for* Baylor, that doesn't magically absolve him of what he did *to* Baylor on his way out the door: it doesn't magically wave away his miss rate on recruiting over his last two years.

---

Yeah, I wish "slacking off" always included a run to the Big 12 Championship & Sugar Bowl, after a historic scandal and negativity coming from every direction at Baylor. If we could only be so lucky.

And, if only he could have left the next staff good enough players to win the Big 12 and Sugar Bowl with the next coach …

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

BUBBFAN said:

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PartyBear said:

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I dont think it is the fact he is a mercenary. All of them are. So is Aranda. That said he just isnt as great of a coach as a few adulators of him here continue to try to argue every chance they get even now.

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Certainly better than what we have now.

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Aranda inexplicably still has Rhule holdover staff members btw. I suspect if Aranda is fired and his successor wins a XII title or something in a few years the small number of Rhule adulators will be trying to tie the success to Rhule having been the coach here at some point in the past. Y'all just watch. Of course none of them will argue any losses post Rhule are due to Rhule only post Rhule wins are due to him having been a predecessor of his successor/s. It isnt Rhule's fault of course that a few year have gone cult over him on this site. But it is annoying and they sort of inadvertently make Rhule annoying by doing so.

Bearknuckle said:

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Russell Gym said:

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Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

I never understand all the shxtting on CMR.

I would take him back right now. It sucked we were his stepping stone to the NFL....and he did have a little used car salesman to him (like a lot of successful HCs)...but he was good.

He gave us an identity, gave us toughness, knew how to hold leads, and was putting guys in the NFL. With Bell and Joey opening doors he eventually had THSCA singing his and Baylor's praises.

He made a lot of right moves and got us through a very precarious time when our program could have been set back 10 to 20 years.

---

I just assume everyone destroying Rhule for being a mercenary has never accepted a better job offer for more money, responsibility and prestige. Because otherwise they are the height of hypocrisy as they'd do the exact same thing in the exact same scenario. The only difference in this case is that they have green/gold glasses on.

Rhule took us to a conference title game two years after he got here while still mired in the aftershocks of one of the great CFB scandals of our time and laid the foundations for the greatest season in Baylor football history. As far as I'm concerned, that completely absolves him of any jilted lover fantasies so many on this board retain to this day.

---

I don't hate on Rhule for wanting to go to the NFL - he was always very clear on that. But when you start slacking off current job duties because you're concentrating on landing the new gig - yeah that's a problem.

So while you're right about what he did *for* Baylor, that doesn't magically absolve him of what he did *to* Baylor on his way out the door: it doesn't magically wave away his miss rate on recruiting over his last two years.

---

Yeah, I wish "slacking off" always included a run to the Big 12 Championship & Sugar Bowl, after a historic scandal and negativity coming from every direction at Baylor. If we could only be so lucky.

And, if only he could have left the next staff good enough players to win the Big 12 and Sugar Bowl with the next coach …

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

Definitely got some breaks in 2019, no doubt. If Rhule had stayed another 2-4 years we would certainly know whether he'd continued the upward trajectory.

parch said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

Smoke and mirrors? Who cares? W's are what matters, no matter the path you take there. If it took "smoke and mirrors" to convince recruits to come and build what eventually became the best football team in a century of the program, what difference is it to you? At this time I'd take all the smoke and all the mirrors if it means we're playing relevant games in November again.

This is what I mean by the green/gold glasses. There's always a "yeah but" with some people and Rhule, as if none of what he did is really fully credible because of reasons. There are maybe a handful of guys in America who could've done what he did with the circumstances he was given, and why some folks can't just leave it there smacks of some weird deep wound they can't let go.

---

I don't understand why saying Rhule was great for Baylor, but his recruiting was a very mixed bag, the ugliest bits of which are bearing rotten fruit now - that's not nursing some old perceived slight, it's dealing with the final direct outcomes of Rhule's tenure.

FWIW, I think if he hadn't been so intent on the NFL, if he'd been truly trying to build his own empire in Waco, the recruiting trend would likely have been phenomenal given the available evidence. But that didn't happen because Rhule+Baylor was always a marriage of convenience on one side and necessity on the other. Unless Phil Snow was the majority of Rhule's CFB secret sauce, I think he'll build something special at NU eventually, as he does seem to be ready to be there for the long haul.

parch said:

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Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

Smoke and mirrors? Who cares? W's are what matters, no matter the path you take there. If it took "smoke and mirrors" to convince recruits to come and build what eventually became the best football team in a century of the program, what difference is it to you? At this time I'd take all the smoke and all the mirrors if it means we're playing relevant games in November again.

This is what I mean by the green/gold glasses. There's always a "yeah but" with some people and Rhule, as if none of what he did is really fully credible because of reasons. There are maybe a handful of guys in America who could've done what he did with the circumstances he was given, and why some folks can't just leave it there smacks of some weird deep wound they can't let go.

---

I don't understand why saying Rhule was great for Baylor, but his recruiting was a very mixed bag, the ugliest bits of which are bearing rotten fruit now - that's not nursing some old perceived slight, it's dealing with the final direct outcomes of Rhule's tenure.

FWIW, I think if he hadn't been so intent on the NFL, if he'd been truly trying to build his own empire in Waco, the recruiting trend would likely have been phenomenal given the available evidence. But that didn't happen because Rhule+Baylor was always a marriage of convenience on one side and necessity on the other. Unless Phil Snow was the majority of Rhule's CFB secret sauce, I think he'll build something special at NU eventually, as he does seem to be ready to be there for the long haul.

---

I guess you're going to have to explain what "bearing rotten fruit" means in this context. He recruited both of our Big 12 championship game teams in their entirety (minus Jalen Pitre). Aranda got a sprinting start as HC. Any rotten fruit borne out today is Aranda's.

---

I think you're a bit confused on the timeline here...
Apu Ika, Dillon Doyle, Jacob Gall, Grant Miller, Drew Estrada, Blake Shapen - all key contributors to that season who were Aranda recruits or tranfers.

parch said:

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Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

Smoke and mirrors? Who cares? W's are what matters, no matter the path you take there. If it took "smoke and mirrors" to convince recruits to come and build what eventually became the best football team in a century of the program, what difference is it to you? At this time I'd take all the smoke and all the mirrors if it means we're playing relevant games in November again.

This is what I mean by the green/gold glasses. There's always a "yeah but" with some people and Rhule, as if none of what he did is really fully credible because of reasons. There are maybe a handful of guys in America who could've done what he did with the circumstances he was given, and why some folks can't just leave it there smacks of some weird deep wound they can't let go.

---

I don't understand why saying Rhule was great for Baylor, but his recruiting was a very mixed bag, the ugliest bits of which are bearing rotten fruit now - that's not nursing some old perceived slight, it's dealing with the final direct outcomes of Rhule's tenure.

FWIW, I think if he hadn't been so intent on the NFL, if he'd been truly trying to build his own empire in Waco, the recruiting trend would likely have been phenomenal given the available evidence. But that didn't happen because Rhule+Baylor was always a marriage of convenience on one side and necessity on the other. Unless Phil Snow was the majority of Rhule's CFB secret sauce, I think he'll build something special at NU eventually, as he does seem to be ready to be there for the long haul.

---

I guess you're going to have to explain what "bearing rotten fruit" means in this context. He recruited both of our Big 12 championship game teams in their entirety (minus Jalen Pitre). Aranda got a sprinting start as HC. Any rotten fruit borne out today is Aranda's.

---

I think you're a bit confused on the timeline here...
Apu Ika, Dillon Doyle, Jacob Gall, Grant Miller, Drew Estrada, Blake Shapen - all key contributors to that season who were Aranda recruits or tranfers.

---

Fair enough, exaggeration on my part for the 2021 season. But point stands that the foundations for that team were set by Rhule, so I'm not sure where this "rotten fruit" argument comes from that somehow he's sabotaging this team from the grave four years after he left.

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then you've missed the endless discussion on this topic over the last four weeks. way too much to rehash here - Aranda & Co. bear the bulk of responsibility for what's happened roster-wise, but bottom line Rhule's 2019 class wasn't great, and Aranda's '20 class was super rushed because of the timeline of Rhule's departure.

While it's true that Rhule had a similarly compressed timeline when he got to Baylor, he had the benefit of bringing an established recruiting machine with him, and getting some super adds in McGuire, Wetzel and Bell.

Not really as I said just watch should we be really good again soon.

PartyBear said:

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Not really as I said just watch should we be really good again soon.

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If it's not a straw man then it's an appeal to ridicule because you are distorting the opposing sides viewpoint in a ridiculous manner.

I think CMR did a great job here. If aranda gets canned and a couple guys from Rhules staff somehow manage to stick and that new HC finds success - I would never give Rhule credit for it.

Bearknuckle said:

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parch said:

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Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

parch said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

Smoke and mirrors? Who cares? W's are what matters, no matter the path you take there. If it took "smoke and mirrors" to convince recruits to come and build what eventually became the best football team in a century of the program, what difference is it to you? At this time I'd take all the smoke and all the mirrors if it means we're playing relevant games in November again.

This is what I mean by the green/gold glasses. There's always a "yeah but" with some people and Rhule, as if none of what he did is really fully credible because of reasons. There are maybe a handful of guys in America who could've done what he did with the circumstances he was given, and why some folks can't just leave it there smacks of some weird deep wound they can't let go.

---

I don't understand why saying Rhule was great for Baylor, but his recruiting was a very mixed bag, the ugliest bits of which are bearing rotten fruit now - that's not nursing some old perceived slight, it's dealing with the final direct outcomes of Rhule's tenure.

FWIW, I think if he hadn't been so intent on the NFL, if he'd been truly trying to build his own empire in Waco, the recruiting trend would likely have been phenomenal given the available evidence. But that didn't happen because Rhule+Baylor was always a marriage of convenience on one side and necessity on the other. Unless Phil Snow was the majority of Rhule's CFB secret sauce, I think he'll build something special at NU eventually, as he does seem to be ready to be there for the long haul.

---

I guess you're going to have to explain what "bearing rotten fruit" means in this context. He recruited both of our Big 12 championship game teams in their entirety (minus Jalen Pitre). Aranda got a sprinting start as HC. Any rotten fruit borne out today is Aranda's.

---

I think you're a bit confused on the timeline here...
Apu Ika, Dillon Doyle, Jacob Gall, Grant Miller, Drew Estrada, Blake Shapen - all key contributors to that season who were Aranda recruits or tranfers.

---

Fair enough, exaggeration on my part for the 2021 season. But point stands that the foundations for that team were set by Rhule, so I'm not sure where this "rotten fruit" argument comes from that somehow he's sabotaging this team from the grave four years after he left.

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bottom line Rhule's 2019 class wasn't great,

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Has it been considered that it is perhaps not great because Aranda's staff is shyt and cannot develop, game plan nor lead a program?

parch said:

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I mean... isn't that Rhule's doing though? The staff he put together? Does he not get credit for that? Both who he brought with him and who he hired from Adam?

I think this is part of the main issue here. Rhule gets dinged for having a better staff than Aranda, and Aranda gets dinged for not putting together as good of a staff as Rhule. The coach is over all of it. Staff success is HC success, and vice versa.

I just think blaming Rhule for any part of Aranda's failures is weak sauce and smacks of agenda. Rhule left Aranda with more in the cupboard than most coaches get.

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"dinged" you're the one assigning values here - i'm just describing reality.

Matt Rhule was a long-time HC with long-tenured assistants in every facet of his program.

Dave Aranda was a DC who's HC career began just as the pandemic set in...

So I'm saying that Rhule's first recruiting class was far better than Dave's despite similar timelines, because Rhule came in both with a well developed staff of his own, and was gifted several Texas HC coaches with great connections.

Dave came into a situation needing to learn/develop his own roster building strategy while putting together a staff that was partially comprised of hold overs, one of whom had been the second place finisher in the job search.

That's about as apples to oranges as you're going to get.

Bearknuckle said:

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Russell Gym said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I never understand all the shxtting on CMR.

I would take him back right now. It sucked we were his stepping stone to the NFL....and he did have a little used car salesman to him (like a lot of successful HCs)...but he was good.

He gave us an identity, gave us toughness, knew how to hold leads, and was putting guys in the NFL. With Bell and Joey opening doors he eventually had THSCA singing his and Baylor's praises.

He made a lot of right moves and got us through a very precarious time when our program could have been set back 10 to 20 years.

---

I just assume everyone destroying Rhule for being a mercenary has never accepted a better job offer for more money, responsibility and prestige. Because otherwise they are the height of hypocrisy as they'd do the exact same thing in the exact same scenario. The only difference in this case is that they have green/gold glasses on.

Rhule took us to a conference title game two years after he got here while still mired in the aftershocks of one of the great CFB scandals of our time and laid the foundations for the greatest season in Baylor football history. As far as I'm concerned, that completely absolves him of any jilted lover fantasies so many on this board retain to this day.

---

I don't hate on Rhule for wanting to go to the NFL - he was always very clear on that. But when you start slacking off current job duties because you're concentrating on landing the new gig - yeah that's a problem.

So while you're right about what he did *for* Baylor, that doesn't magically absolve him of what he did *to* Baylor on his way out the door: it doesn't magically wave away his miss rate on recruiting over his last two years.

---

Yeah, I wish "slacking off" always included a run to the Big 12 Championship & Sugar Bowl, after a historic scandal and negativity coming from every direction at Baylor. If we could only be so lucky.

And, if only he could have left the next staff good enough players to win the Big 12 and Sugar Bowl with the next coach …

---

2019 was nearly as much smoke & mirrors as TCU's '22 - UGA exposed exactly how far from actually elite we were that year (much as LSU did with OU). We were on the lucky side of the bounces all year that year, had wonderful injury luck as well overall. It was a fun ride, but Rhule hadn't already built some juggernaut.

Everyone claims we give too much credit to Aranda for '21, but '19 is the outlier for Rhule at this point too...

---

26-14 versus Georgia compared to 65-7.

that game was never as close as the final score would indicate, and IIRC Georgia had several starters skip the game...bottom line '19 was a really fun season and good team that caught the lucky break more often than having it go against them...but it didn't portend a guaranteed dynasty under Rhule. cf '23 TCU.

Bearknuckle said:

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parch said:

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I mean... isn't that Rhule's doing though? The staff he put together? Does he not get credit for that? Both who he brought with him and who he hired from Adam?

I think this is part of the main issue here. Rhule gets dinged for having a better staff than Aranda, and Aranda gets dinged for not putting together as good of a staff as Rhule. The coach is over all of it. Staff success is HC success, and vice versa.

I just think blaming Rhule for any part of Aranda's failures is weak sauce and smacks of agenda. Rhule left Aranda with more in the cupboard than most coaches get.

---

"dinged" you're the one assigning values here - i'm just describing reality.

Matt Rhule was a long-time HC with long-tenured assistants in every facet of his program.

Dave Aranda was a DC who's HC career began just as the pandemic set in...

So I'm saying that Rhule's first recruiting class was far better than Dave's despite similar timelines, because Rhule came in both with a well developed staff of his own, and was gifted several Texas HC coaches with great connections.

Dave came into a situation needing to learn/develop his own roster building strategy while putting together a staff that was partially comprised of hold overs, one of whom had been the second place finisher in the job search.

That's about as apples to oranges as you're going to get.

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Then, what you are saying is Dave was just a really bad hire. This I agree with.