I don't think Baylor has quit, I think it's just the reality that we don't have the money to fire CDA. We signed him to a long-term deal because we didn't want to lose him to another program coming off of one of the best seasons in Baylor football history. With hindsight, we can say it was a bad idea to sign that deal, but at the time, it appeared to be the right move. We don't have the money that aggy has - we can't effectively pay two top dollar head coaches at the same time. But the fact is we have top-notch facilities, we just signed CDA to a lucrative contract 2 years ago, and we supposedly have a decent NIL program. If that is "quiet quitting", I might be misunderstanding what "quiet quitting" actually means.

canoso said:

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There are times I ask myself if CAB's biggest mistake/downfall here was his belief that BU really wanted to attain to 1st tier status.

---

Every time I read a post about CAB, I think about the meme "Sometimes I wonder if they are thinking about me too."

BU really wanted to attain 1st tier status, but Briles' biggest mistake/downfall was accepting the buyout money in exchange for his silence. He miscalculated how powerful the cancel culture is and he really believed this would all blow over and he would be coaching again after a year or two. The fact that this hasn't blown over and he is still a pariah just shows this was more than Briles misunderstanding BU's 1st tier status aspirations because many coaches have been given second chances after making big mistakes. Either what he did was as bad as the media says or his reputation is irreparably ruined because of his inability to defend himself due to NDAs.

Reading the amazing theories in this thread, I must ask:

Did Hitler get NIL $$??

Did anyone ever offer him a buyout to go away?



Adolf in the stadium of The-School-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

Not quit or quiet quit on football. But we are using next season as the kickoff for the next rebuild. Whoever is head coach after 2024 can take a couple seasons and build back better.

This is so dramatic. Yeah we quiet quit on the football program as long as you ignore the brand new football operations facility that's being built and the revamped/restructured NIL collective. Baylor made mistakes by not embracing NIL/transfer portal culture quick enough. They are working on fixing it. There is a chance that Mack looked at the coaching landscape and realized it wasn't the best year to tear it all down… Just look at the names of coaches being hired this year. Only Houston and Michigan state made coaching hires that everyone seems to agree that they were great hires

bear2be2 said:

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BUATX2000 said:

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A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.

---

The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.

---

I have to agree with this. We suck but I don't think the higher ups don't want to win. We couldn't afford to get rid of Aranda and pay top dollar to the next guy so might as well ride it out another year and hope with some other coaches in place he might get things in the right direction.

Not worried about our national brand. How about we win the Big 12 or at least position your self to be one of the top 12. Once you are in the playoffs it's free game

Remember what Coach Repass said at 2nd grade Pop Warner practice?

"Everybody wants to win. But the Winners are willing to do the work to win".

After another sub-5-win season Aranda will be fired. By then all the new facilities will be available to show recruits. That's "putting in the work" between the best facilities, embracing NIL and hiring a coach who will do the work to win. Be patient.

contrario said:

---

canoso said:

---

There are times I ask myself if CAB's biggest mistake/downfall here was his belief that BU really wanted to attain to 1st tier status.

---

Every time I read a post about CAB, I think about the meme "Sometimes I wonder if they are thinking about me too."

BU really wanted to attain 1st tier status, but Briles' biggest mistake/downfall was accepting the buyout money in exchange for his silence. He miscalculated how powerful the cancel culture is and he really believed this would all blow over and he would be coaching again after a year or two. The fact that this hasn't blown over and he is still a pariah just shows this was more than Briles misunderstanding BU's 1st tier status aspirations because many coaches have been given second chances after making big mistakes. Either what he did was as bad as the media says or his reputation is irreparably ruined because of his inability to defend himself due to NDAs.

---

Interesting observations. I agree that CAB hobbled himself with the NDAs, though they could not prevent his very effectively defending himself in the recent lawsuit. I disagree about BU really wanting to attain to 1st tier football status; if we had, we would have done it and would still be interested in doing it, and I'm convinced there would be at least 1 natty in the football trophy case. And his still being a pariah is entirely due to the malice of a handful of people whose passion was playing king of the hill. There are too many top level HCs still working after much worse (and proven) actions (or inactions) at big-time programs.

Killing Floor said:

---

Remember what Coach Repass said at 2nd grade Pop Warner practice?

"Everybody wants to win. But the Winners are willing to do the work to win".

After another sub-5-win season Aranda will be fired. By then all the new facilities will be available to show recruits. That's "putting in the work" between the best facilities, embracing NIL and hiring a coach who will do the work to win. Be patient.

---

I'm still pulling for Aranda to turn things around, even if I've lost faith/confidence that he will or even can. It would be better not to have to tear everything down if we could somehow get back to the place we were before the late-season collapse in 2022.

Can Dave get us there? I'm not holding my breath, but that's his challenge, and I'm certainly rooting for him to do so. Either way, we'll know pretty quickly next year whether it's time to move on or not.

guadalupeoso said:

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drahthaar said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

I'll agree with that.

Vanderbilt just committed to spending $300 million on athletic facilities.

But with a $11 billion dollar endowment and rich alumni this is just them catching up after neglecting their facilities for decades.

I don't think it can immediately be seen as a commitment by Vanderbilt to compete at the highest standard.

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

blackie said:

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The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.

---

It's really not even about the number of alumni a school has. Do you think all those legions of Texas and Alabama fans actually took a single course at either school? Baylor had a fun enough program to follow under Briles that non-alumni, "unwashed" folks started rooting for the Bears. The BOR and inept administration took care of that.

Selling alcohol to the unwashed masses at games might might bring some of them back. Baylor Athletics is like a caste system.

Without OUT the Big12 is not seen as big boy football. I believe that's why the commissioner is placing such a huge focus on basketball.

The B12 will be THE power conference for hoops!

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Underrated post is underrated.

BellCountyBear said:

---

blackie said:

---

The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.

---

It's really not even about the number of alumni a school has. Do you think all those legions of Texas and Alabama fans actually took a single course at either school? Baylor had a fun enough program to follow under Briles that non-alumni, "unwashed" folks started rooting for the Bears. The BOR and inept administration took care of that.

Selling alcohol to the unwashed masses at games might might bring some of them back. Baylor Athletics is like a caste system.

---

The problem as I see it is that we don't have a high enough base of supporters compared to the large state schools that have had those large student enrollment figures for decades. It is also unrealistic to think that Baylor could sustain consistently the high level of football that made them interesting in the mid-teens. Something always happens to interrupt it...key injuries that derail a season that knocks down interest, a coach that wants to move on, now players getting into the portal because they don't want to wait to get to play, etc. It doesn't take a scandal to do it.

Why should Baylor be any different from its true peers (smaller alumni bases). No one else in the conference outside of OUT has shown the real ability to retain the T-shirt fans you mention when there are hiccups in the program. When those hiccups occur those legions that might have found Baylor football an interesting product move on to the next one and you are left only with your base......a small base compared to those in P2 now. that is not what the creators of the P2s of the world want.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Without OUT the Big12 is not seen as big boy football. I believe that's why the commissioner is placing such a huge focus on basketball.

The B12 will be THE power conference for hoops!

---

I honestly couldn't care less about the national perception. I pretty much only watch Big 12 football anymore, at least in terms of full games. I'll watch a series here and there of national games, but I'm content to watch nothing but Big 12 football. The national college football scene has never been more boring to me, and the Big 12 plays consistently fun games. It was pretty much Big 12 and PAC-12 for me this season. I had no interest in watching a single Big Ten game because that league is boring as hell, and the SEC race is over before it starts every year.

Now that there are 14 teams, I can watch Big 12 games all day long and be entertained, so that's what I do.

This is why I don't even care that we've been "relegated." I find a conference of peers to be more fun anyway -- or will once we get back to a place where we're competing at the level we should be.

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

I think there is a large gap between, "Baylor isn't trying to stay competitive with Bama, Texas, Michigan" to "Baylor is quiet quitting football and the administration is secretly ok with a non-competitive, irrelevant football program."

Even if we tried, we will never be able to consistently compete with Bama, Texas, Michigan, etc. Even in the days of the Blessed Virgin Art Briles, the perception of our program was not on par with the blue blood programs and it never would have been. Those rules were written a long time ago. But that doesn't mean that this administration has given up or that our football program is complacent to just be mediocre. I think that is conflating results with intentions. The two are not the same.

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

blackie said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

blackie said:

---

The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.

---

It's really not even about the number of alumni a school has. Do you think all those legions of Texas and Alabama fans actually took a single course at either school? Baylor had a fun enough program to follow under Briles that non-alumni, "unwashed" folks started rooting for the Bears. The BOR and inept administration took care of that.

Selling alcohol to the unwashed masses at games might might bring some of them back. Baylor Athletics is like a caste system.

---

The problem as I see it is that we don't have a high enough base of supporters compared to the large state schools that have had those large student enrollment figures for decades. It is also unrealistic to think that Baylor could sustain consistently the high level of football that made them interesting in the mid-teens. Something always happens to interrupt it...key injuries that derail a season that knocks down interest, a coach that wants to move on, now players getting into the portal because they don't want to wait to get to play, etc. It doesn't take a scandal to do it.

Why should Baylor be any different from its true peers (smaller alumni bases). No one else in the conference outside of OUT has shown the real ability to retain the T-shirt fans you mention when there are hiccups in the program. When those hiccups occur those legions that might have found Baylor football an interesting product move on to the next one and you are left only with your base......a small base compared to those in P2 now. that is not what the creators of the P2s of the world want.

---

If our fake scandal coach were still here, how many of his players (not the current roster) would be considering, or jumping into, the portal?

canoso said:

---

blackie said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

blackie said:

---

The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.

---

It's really not even about the number of alumni a school has. Do you think all those legions of Texas and Alabama fans actually took a single course at either school? Baylor had a fun enough program to follow under Briles that non-alumni, "unwashed" folks started rooting for the Bears. The BOR and inept administration took care of that.

Selling alcohol to the unwashed masses at games might might bring some of them back. Baylor Athletics is like a caste system.

---

The problem as I see it is that we don't have a high enough base of supporters compared to the large state schools that have had those large student enrollment figures for decades. It is also unrealistic to think that Baylor could sustain consistently the high level of football that made them interesting in the mid-teens. Something always happens to interrupt it...key injuries that derail a season that knocks down interest, a coach that wants to move on, now players getting into the portal because they don't want to wait to get to play, etc. It doesn't take a scandal to do it.

Why should Baylor be any different from its true peers (smaller alumni bases). No one else in the conference outside of OUT has shown the real ability to retain the T-shirt fans you mention when there are hiccups in the program. When those hiccups occur those legions that might have found Baylor football an interesting product move on to the next one and you are left only with your base......a small base compared to those in P2 now. that is not what the creators of the P2s of the world want.

---

If our fake scandal coach were still here, how many of his players (not the current roster) would be considering, or jumping into, the portal?

---

That's an impossible hypothetical, however, the answer is that if they believed that they could make much more money elsewhere, there is a good chance that transferring would on the table.

canoso said:

---

blackie said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

blackie said:

---

The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.

---

It's really not even about the number of alumni a school has. Do you think all those legions of Texas and Alabama fans actually took a single course at either school? Baylor had a fun enough program to follow under Briles that non-alumni, "unwashed" folks started rooting for the Bears. The BOR and inept administration took care of that.

Selling alcohol to the unwashed masses at games might might bring some of them back. Baylor Athletics is like a caste system.

---

The problem as I see it is that we don't have a high enough base of supporters compared to the large state schools that have had those large student enrollment figures for decades. It is also unrealistic to think that Baylor could sustain consistently the high level of football that made them interesting in the mid-teens. Something always happens to interrupt it...key injuries that derail a season that knocks down interest, a coach that wants to move on, now players getting into the portal because they don't want to wait to get to play, etc. It doesn't take a scandal to do it.

Why should Baylor be any different from its true peers (smaller alumni bases). No one else in the conference outside of OUT has shown the real ability to retain the T-shirt fans you mention when there are hiccups in the program. When those hiccups occur those legions that might have found Baylor football an interesting product move on to the next one and you are left only with your base......a small base compared to those in P2 now. that is not what the creators of the P2s of the world want.

---

If our fake scandal coach were still here, how many of his players (not the current roster) would be considering, or jumping into, the portal?

---

Probably a lot more than you think. Just look at top players at top schools that are jumping into the portal. It really doesn't have a lot to do about how your team performs. It is either playing time or money. Back in Briles day here, if you wanted to transfer you had to sit out a year. I also think he wouldn't still be here. He never gave the vibe that he wanted Baylor to be his last stop.

Message board people can't be pleased. Winning? Not by enough. Losing? The worlds on fire. It's how every message board works. Baylor is in a pickle but so are tons of schools. Leadership is historically bad with sports going back decades which is where I think the lack of positivity comes from. I like the Spav hire and hope for the best… being a semi regular contender for the 12 team playoff

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

---

Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

drahthaar said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

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Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

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Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

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Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

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Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

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The key in the post you responded to is "Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table." Let's say Brile's stay was not terminated and Baylor continued at or near the top of the BIG XII going into 2021. Do you really think we would be going to the SEC with OUT or the B1G with the PAC12 schools? Winning has little to do with it.

Maybe, we're not getting into the football power league that will shortly be pulling away from the NCAA, might be smart to focus on B-ball where we have a recent Natty.

drahthaar said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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drahthaar said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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drahthaar said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

---

Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

---

The world for Baylor - and the rest of the legacy Big 12 teams for that matter - is different now than it was in 2016, and that is certainly playing a role in the decision making of the Baylor admin. Some posters here literally believe that if it were possible to hire Art Briles back as head coach (and give him a competitive salary pool), it would magically put Baylor on the fast track to: (1) becoming a program on the same tier as programs like Texas or Texas A&M, (2) joining the P2, (3) winning a national title, and/or (4) solving the rest of Baylor's athletics based challenges.

While everyone here sympathizes with posters that have that opinion, that take is quite unrealistic even if it were possible (which it's not).

drahthaar said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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drahthaar said:

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guadalupeoso said:

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drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

---

Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

---

The world for Baylor - and the rest of the legacy Big 12 teams for that matter - is different now than it was in 2016, and that is certainly playing a role in the decision making of the Baylor admin. Some posters here literally believe that if it were possible to hire Art Briles back as head coach (and give him a competitive salary pool), it would magically put Baylor on the fast track to: (1) becoming a program on the same tier as programs like Texas or Texas A&M, (2) joining the P2, (3) winning a national title, and/or (4) solving the rest of Baylor's athletics based challenges.

While everyone here sympathizes with posters that have that opinion, that take is quite unrealistic even if it were possible (which it's not).

drahthaar said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

---

Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

---

I think the interpretation of the Briles years is overstated by many on this board. Briles was a brilliant coach who showed us that it is possible to win and win big at Baylor in football. He did not show that it was possible to place Baylor on a level playing field with Bama, Texas, Michigan year in and year out. Briles had us consistently punching above our weight. But he never had us at the level where in any given year, the expectation was national championship contention. And he never would have gotten us there, because there are only about 10-12 programs who can realistically have that expectation: Bama, Texas, LSU, Michigan, USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Miami, Georgia, Florida State, Florida, Oklahoma. That's it. They are the only programs who have the combination of resources, fan support, history, and geography to reasonably expect a national championship level team in any given year.

Sure, maybe a couple other teams might catch lightning in a bottle and win one or two every once in a while, i.e. Clemson, Auburn. Baylor might have even reached the natty game under Briles like TCU did. But Briles did not show that it was possible for Baylor to be included in that list above, because it's not possible. What Briles did was show that Baylor was capable of being competitive and relevant year in an year out. And being competitive and relevant vs. being Alabama are two totally different things.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Without OUT the Big12 is not seen as big boy football.

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And yet the conference champion will be in the playoff next year and every year if they are in the top 12. It's up to the playoff rep to play well and advance to help the conference.

The Briles era's ship sailed and sank 7 years ago. Don't have any real desire to resurrect that, so that doesn't color any of my thinking.

I've always thought we could compete with horn, sooner and Aggy (and anyone else) and win consistently without looking like we have the past season and a half. Going "blue blood" like big state schools never was a possibility. So, yeah, being in with the "bigs" is unrelated to W's. It's $$$$, eyes and butts in seats to go with advertising. But that doesn't preclude winning and being competitive.

Evidently a bunch of folks have given up that idea even with threats of realignment. If so, then taking a passive response to this year's coaching jobs is the correct one, as is mandating the character of recruits to a narrow niche.

guadalupeoso said:

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drahthaar said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?

---

This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.

---

Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.

---

Not saying that at all. Building facilities is par for any institution's athletic or academic endeavor and isn't clear evidence of commitment to playing on a competitive level with Bama, Texas, Michigan etc. Being openly aggressive in managing a coaching staff, networking with supporters, providing a high-class game day experience including tailgating, not hamstringing coaching staff recruiting with silly rules or untimely decisions on admissions speaks more about intent than taking a donor's wealth for a building, no matter how well intended or how well the university markets themselves through that.

---

Baylor has not shot at playing at the highest level of college football consistently. If we are benchmarking Baylor against Alabama and Michigan, we are already outside the realm of what is realistically possible.

One of the major challenges for Baylor is that does it make sense to financially leverage the future when by 2030/2031, the big money teams may have moved on and Baylor would be stuck with that leverage despite not having a clear path to pay it off - whatever that may look like. To be clear here, Baylor cannot win its way to the big boys table.

---

Briles showed it is indeed possible to do just that. We just read history differently. Now the question of the unmanaged NIL and its final paradigm is another matter and likely is what colors a "we can't do that mindset". Or perhaps it is a "we aren't doing that" philosophy that is the real issue? If so, we ought to say that.

---

I think the interpretation of the Briles years is overstated by many on this board. Briles was a brilliant coach who showed us that it is possible to win and win big at Baylor in football. He did not show that it was possible to place Baylor on a level playing field with Bama, Texas, Michigan year in and year out. Briles had us consistently punching above our weight. But he never had us at the level where in any given year, the expectation was national championship contention. And he never would have gotten us there, because there are only about 10-12 programs who can realistically have that expectation: Bama, Texas, LSU, Michigan, USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Miami, Georgia, Florida State, Florida, Oklahoma. That's it. They are the only programs who have the combination of resources, fan support, history, and geography to reasonably expect a national championship level team in any given year.

Sure, maybe a couple other teams might catch lightning in a bottle and win one or two every once in a while, i.e. Clemson, Auburn. Baylor might have even reached the natty game under Briles like TCU did. But Briles did not show that it was possible for Baylor to be included in that list above, because it's not possible. What Briles did was show that Baylor was capable of being competitive and relevant year in an year out. And being competitive and relevant vs. being Alabama are two totally different things.

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Florida state was a nursing college, Miami is SMU with better cocaine, Georgia was an afterthought for over a decade, so were Texas and Michigan. You left off Florida and Oregon….

The point is Baylor could have a seat at that table once in a while. It doesn't need to be 5 to 10 years on and then 40 years in the wilderness which seems to be the pattern.

It's like blackjack. Count cards and know when to bet big.

Some here will never be happy until we hire CAB back as our coach. News flash, it is not going to happen. Many of the complainers are the same ones who howled when we hired Ruhle as the coach. Oh, he wasn't a P5 coach, his offenses suck, he talks funny. Yet they loved him when he took us to the Sugar Bowl. We loved CDA for his Big 12 Championship and his Sugar Bowl win. We wanted Baylor to extend his contract and keep him from being poached by another school. Now these same "experts" on this forum think he can't coach.

We sound as bad, if not worse, than the Aggie fans on their forum.


I am going to give Aranda and the new OC a chance and see what happens. I think Aranda is a good coach and can get us back to where we compete for a Big 12 championship.

Of course, I think CNC can get the Women's program back to the top also. Call me optimistic.


Sic em Bears!

guadalupeoso said:

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oorahpa said:

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Linda is Woke and has shown no interest in returning Baylor to our former position in football.

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We literally had the best season in school history during her tenure as president. literally.

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We had the best season in history despite her, not because of her. Akin to the Astros managing to win the WS last year despite Dusty Baker.