This almost feels like a Babylon Bee article. I thought only pro teams threatened to leave if they didn't get what they wanted.

“If this isn’t approved by the city council for whatever reason, then we’re going to be looking at other (cities).”

Joseph Harroz Jr. says OU could look elsewhere to build its proposed arena and entertainment district: https://t.co/22N8xE6qIy

— OU Daily (@OUDaily) April 2, 2024

https://www.oudaily.com/news/joseph-harroz-entertainment-district-nil-dei-intercollegiate-athletics/article_7d877730-f13f-11ee-afca-4b7bf6bfb248.html

OU President Joseph Harroz Jr. sat down with OU Daily editors Tuesday afternoon to discuss Norman's proposed entertainment district, transition to the Southeastern Conference and commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion.

In his Evans Hall office, Harroz told OU Daily that if Norman City Council does not approve the proposed $1 billion entertainment district that would feature a new arena for OU athletics, then the university, alongside donors, would look to other cities to build an arena for which its basketball and women's gymnastics teams would be anchor tenants and possibly the entertainment district as a whole.

"I'm very hopeful and do everything I can to keep it here in Norman," Harroz said. "But if this isn't approved by the city council for whatever reason, then we're going to be looking at other (cities), Oklahoma City, Moore, surrounding areas and figure out where is there a group that wants to do this."

The Norman Planning Commission will meet on April 11 to possibly discuss and move forward development plans for the entertainment district, which was first proposed in September and would feature an 80/20 split of private donors and public financing through a tax increment finance district in the area.

Harroz compared the entertainment district to the arena overwhelmingly approved by voters in Oklahoma City in December. There, an approximately $900 million arena to house the Oklahoma City Thunder is being primarily financed by a citywide penny tax starting in 2028 with a smaller investment from private donors. The Thunder is contributing about $50 million, about 5.5%, and the city is offering about $70 million, about 7.7%, in MAPS 4 funds

Harroz said the proposed entertainment district in Norman is the complete reverse. On Facebook, Ward 8 Councilmember Matthew Peacock said he's seen several versions of proposed details, more than the public as a sitting council member, regarding the district and will take any detail regarding the district as a potential until the applicant has a concrete proposal.

The applicant, University North Park LLC, for the entertainment district development has asked that the item be postponed from the Planning Commission's deadline at its December, January and February meetings. At the last meeting, it was postponed to April 11.

Ward 7 Councilmember Stephen Tyler Holman told OU Daily that in his experience being on city council for the past 11 years, he has not seen something be postponed that many times, saying typically applicants have a plan when going to the commission or ask for postponement only once.

Norman City Council adopted a resolution in November creating a TIF review committee. The statutory review committee will meet Friday morning.

Harroz told OU Daily at the OU Board of Regents meeting in March that collaboration, especially to the caliber of the entertainment district, takes time and he was proud of how the group, made of university, city and private sector leaders, have created this plan. A full project plan for the entertainment district has not been released as of Tuesday.

"I know, it's a big ask," Harroz told OU Daily in March. "I really think that the future of Norman depends on it, and I don't think that's an overstatement. And so we need to get it right the first time. Obviously, we tried this a number of years back. I think it's different this time. … I'm optimistic. It's not certain, but I'm optimistic."

On Tuesday, Harroz was more direct, saying Norman has invested in OU in the past and needs to invest in it again.

"I was going back and reading over the history of the University of Oklahoma, and it was fascinating to read back in 1891, a territorial Legislature put (the university) together, and the city of Norman and Cleveland County stepped up in a huge way. They had to invest in (the university), and not with a TIF, but real money.

"There are places like in Nebraska where there's an actual dedicated tax for athletics there. We don't do any of that. I think this is really reasonable. We want to be an amazing partner and I hope it's here, but if not, then we'll have to look at Plan B."

According to the Nebraska Department of Revenue, political subdivisions in Nebraska can apply for state assistance to help finance certain sports arenas, including arenas between 3,000 to 7,000 seat capacity in an enclosed and temperature-controlled space.

Arenas created through this system can have up to 70% on state sales tax for events held within the arenas, ticket sales and retailers located within 600 yards of the facility.

The proposed arena in University North Park would be a roughly 8,000-seat venue and would be the centerpiece of the southern piece of the entertainment district development.

Is Harroz pronounced Harrah's? If so, they should add a Harrah's hotel/casino to the 'entertainment district' and make the project appealing to poker players and dice throwers too.

I went to Norman in 2022, I had a great time and I love their college town. They have an awesome bar area right off of campus. What else do they need?

Edmond Bear said:

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A few notes:

• The proposed arena is 8,000 seats, not much bigger than Foster. With 23k undergraduates in Norman, OU's undergrad population is 64% larger than Baylor.
• OU + Private Sources is proposing to fund 40% of arena costs and make Norman fund the remainder. If you do the math based on Foster size, Foster cost, subtract Waco cost, you get about $188m in arena costs which means OU + Private sources are offering $75m.

In short, this seems like a total scam.

Norman turned down another arena proposal from OU in 2017. Will be interesting to see if Norman feels hostage to this proposal.

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Not to mention that downtown Oklahoma City is 25 mins driving time from campus.

Imagine if Baylor's campus was 25 mins driving time from downtown Dallas

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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A few notes:

• The proposed arena is 8,000 seats, not much bigger than Foster. With 23k undergraduates in Norman, OU's undergrad population is 64% larger than Baylor.
• OU + Private Sources is proposing to fund 40% of arena costs and make Norman fund the remainder. If you do the math based on Foster size, Foster cost, subtract Waco cost, you get about $188m in arena costs which means OU + Private sources are offering $75m.

In short, this seems like a total scam.

Norman turned down another arena proposal from OU in 2017. Will be interesting to see if Norman feels hostage to this proposal.

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Not to mention that downtown Oklahoma City is 25 mins driving time from campus.

Imagine if Baylor's campus was 25 mins driving time from downtown Dallas

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SMU is barely within 25 minutes driving time of downtown Dallas!

This seems like a crazy ploy from OU. I don't remember how much the city of Waco contributed to Foster, but at least the city is a beneficiary. I'm not sure Norman can be more than the (surprisingly nice) college town it already is.

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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A few notes:

• The proposed arena is 8,000 seats, not much bigger than Foster. With 23k undergraduates in Norman, OU's undergrad population is 64% larger than Baylor.
• OU + Private Sources is proposing to fund 40% of arena costs and make Norman fund the remainder. If you do the math based on Foster size, Foster cost, subtract Waco cost, you get about $188m in arena costs which means OU + Private sources are offering $75m.

In short, this seems like a total scam.

Norman turned down another arena proposal from OU in 2017. Will be interesting to see if Norman feels hostage to this proposal.

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Not to mention that downtown Oklahoma City is 25 mins driving time from campus.

Imagine if Baylor's campus was 25 mins driving time from downtown Dallas

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FWIW, UConn's football stadium in Hartford is 23 miles from its campus. But then again, its campus is in a pasture in the middle of nowhere.

Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

SMU is 5 miles from downtown Dallas.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

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Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

Edmond Bear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

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Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

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I think we get kind of numb to these big figures....at least I know I do sometimes.

That is a wild amount of money. Are they splitting the funding between the city and the team?

boognish_bear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

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Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

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I think we get kind of numb to these big figures....at least I know I do sometimes.

That is a wild amount of money. Are they splitting the funding between the city and the team?

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Eh. Kinda. The team is throwing in $50m.

Funding is from the MAPS tax. OKC voters have approved a 1 penny sales tax every 4 years since 1994. It has funded a ton of city improvements.

In addition to this arena, the MAPS tax is funding a new pro soccer stadium next to downtown and a host of smaller projects.

In the past, MAPS has funded the creation of the riverwalk and ballpark in Bricktown. It funded the development of the downtown river and 1 mile Riversport center which is now an Olympic training facility.

MAPS for Kids funded $700 million on OKC neighborhood school renovations and new schools.

MAPS for Compassion funded a ton of neighborhood after-school centers, senior centers, homeless housing, and libraries. These were spread all over town but there was a heavy emphasis on the inner-city.

MAPS funded OKC's 'Central Park' running from downtown to the river, surrounded by a new Convention Center, Concert area, and Open-air Rollerskating area (which is alot of fun).

A few billion in tax investment has lead to a 4 to 1 investment in commercial development.

All of that development has turned OKC from a dusty town of nothing to an exciting, vibrant, and fun area.

That is probably more than you wanted to know. But, it has made an amazing difference here and is something I would love to see Waco implement.

Now that kids can do classes pretty much fully remote I guess they could move the entire athletics program to Atlanta and share facilities with the Falcons. It's not like the major media market is heavily invested in Georgia Tech these days anyway.

If I were Norman city leadership, I'd at least wait to see whether OU can maintain its historical football trajectory in coming years.

boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

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Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

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Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

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$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

Edmond Bear said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

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Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

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Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

Yeah I think Arkansas is both the better and more underrated education as well as experience. The entire scenic appeal of 95% of the state of OK is rather meh. The Ozarks are one of the most beautiful backdrops in all of the south/southeast. I'd put Fayetteville in over Clemson or Asheville. Boone, NC ain't a terrible place either.

If there was ever a place that was trying to go for the mid-size city resort town feel it's the cow pasture in College Station but at the end of the day one thing they can't pay their way out of is how flat and unappealing that it will always be.

Stillwater might be an option

parch said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

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Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

---

Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

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Their application rate is down significantly because it has the reputation of being extremely liberal in a deeply red state. Most of my OU alum friends will go to football games to cheer but they won't send their kids there.

parch said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

---

Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

---

Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

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Public schools have high acceptance rates due to their relationship with the state, and even when they are lower, they're still much higher than similar private schools. Basically, if a public schools has an acceptance rate below ~35%, they are essentially top shelf in terms of that variable - for private schools, that line is ~10%.

Oklahoma's president threatening to build a new basketball arena in another city like it's a pro sports team feels like one more step in college sports losing its soul. https://t.co/nSdnRcmvhZ

— Chris Vannini (@ChrisVannini) April 3, 2024

Aberzombie1892 said:

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parch said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

---

Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

---

Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

---

Public schools have high acceptance rates due to their relationship with the state, and even when they are lower, they're still much higher than similar private schools. Basically, if a public schools has an acceptance rate below ~35%, they are essentially top shelf in terms of that variable - for private schools, that line is ~10%.

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I don't think anyone was confusing OU with Ivy League. The numbers you are throwing around only apply to about 20 schools total.

I guess the sooners will not be looking to relocate in KC

The Chiefs may be heading for the exit in Kansas City after Jackson County voters rejected a sales tax to pay for renovations on Arrowhead Stadium.

The vote failed 78,352 to 56,606. Chiefs president has threatened to leave if the vote failed. https://t.co/pdWcJRJ1BO

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) April 3, 2024

“The People Took on the Billionaires, The People Won”: Kansas City voters deliver a powerful blow against billionaire sports franchise owners, rejecting a 40-year stadium tax in a decisive vote.https://t.co/lOodgjg6Zc

— The Kansas City Defender (@KCDefender) April 3, 2024

Aberzombie1892 said:

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parch said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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parch said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Universities seem to be more and more focused on turning into resorts now....and the tuition reflects that

---

Private ones maybe. OU is $9k/year for in-state students and $25k for out-of-state. Even at the highest payment tier with zero scholarships, which is rare, you can have your loan paid off by 30 with a normal payment plan. And the reciprocal effect from advancing your career means that on average that investment is well worth the cost once you retire.

Tuition runaway is largely hitting private schools, like Baylor. TCU costs an average in-state student almost six times in tuition what it costs to get an objectively better education and school experience at UT. Highway robbery.

---

$9k is tuition only. Total cost of attendance is around $32k. It's still a bargain compared to private schools.

I agree that OU is not interested in becoming a resort or even supporting their students. Have a lot of friends who are OU alums that had their kids look and were seriously disappointed in the campus activity and student life. And, those that did attend, were disappointed in classes. Most of those kids end up at Arkansas.

---

Looks like average cost with scholarships and aid factored is around $20K, which is not bad.

I don't know what I expected, but I was shocked to see OU's acceptance rate is around 75%. I'd thought they were more sought-after/exclusive than that, but not sure why. Maybe the influence of a historically successful football program, dunno. Have not heard great things from all but the most homer of football boosters though.

---

Public schools have high acceptance rates due to their relationship with the state, and even when they are lower, they're still much higher than similar private schools. Basically, if a public schools has an acceptance rate below ~35%, they are essentially top shelf in terms of that variable - for private schools, that line is ~10%.

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Besides Michigan, u.t. Austin, UC Berkeley, or UVA who would would fall in that category of great public with a low acceptance rate?

IU Bloomington for instance is a really good school…yet it has an 82% acceptable rate

Edmond Bear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Didn't Oklahoma just build an arena for the Thunder and it is building a new one?

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Yes - $900million. Should be nice.

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Thanks. Oklahoma and Arlenton will give sports owners billions like no one else.

boognish_bear said:

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I guess the sooners will not be looking to relocate in KC

The Chiefs may be heading for the exit in Kansas City after Jackson County voters rejected a sales tax to pay for renovations on Arrowhead Stadium.

The vote failed 78,352 to 56,606. Chiefs president has threatened to leave if the vote failed. https://t.co/pdWcJRJ1BO

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) April 3, 2024

“The People Took on the Billionaires, The People Won”: Kansas City voters deliver a powerful blow against billionaire sports franchise owners, rejecting a 40-year stadium tax in a decisive vote.https://t.co/lOodgjg6Zc

— The Kansas City Defender (@KCDefender) April 3, 2024

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Used to live in KCMO. Pretty shocked.

They'll probably end up in KCK hear the soccer stadium.

Stefano DiMera said:

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SMU is 5 miles from downtown Dallas.

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That's the joke! I guess it's back to the drawing board on traffic-related quips…

Harrison Bergeron said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I guess the sooners will not be looking to relocate in KC

The Chiefs may be heading for the exit in Kansas City after Jackson County voters rejected a sales tax to pay for renovations on Arrowhead Stadium.

The vote failed 78,352 to 56,606. Chiefs president has threatened to leave if the vote failed. https://t.co/pdWcJRJ1BO

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) April 3, 2024

“The People Took on the Billionaires, The People Won”: Kansas City voters deliver a powerful blow against billionaire sports franchise owners, rejecting a 40-year stadium tax in a decisive vote.https://t.co/lOodgjg6Zc

— The Kansas City Defender (@KCDefender) April 3, 2024

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Used to live in KCMO. Pretty shocked.

They'll probably end up in KCK hear the soccer stadium.

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Not shocking if you go read the Royals proposed plan, or continuous lack of a plan. A yes vote was basically a blank check for the royals to level some corner of the city that they still had no real plan for a stadium beyond a couple of thin renders.

If the Chiefs were smart they'd sever the tie with the Royals who can't get their act together and ask for another vote.

I agree though I think Royals end up in KCK which as someone who grew up on the Kansas side, I'll support haha.


OU is insane for this plan, this screams we're broke and desperate.

How many mobile homes does it take to make an entertainment district these days?