Finn started and sucked against freaking Tarleton St… there's ample evidence the guy is ass. I told yall that prior to the season. There's nothing yet to support Sawyer being bad with this team. He wasn't great last year. However those were his first few starts. Finn has like 40 under his belt.
Btw in Robertsons limited time vs Tarleton he looked WAY better than Finn way freaking better

IowaBear said:

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Finn started and sucked against freaking Tarleton St… there's ample evidence the guy is ass. I told yall that prior to the season. There's nothing yet to support Sawyer being bad with this team. He wasn't great last year. However those were his first few starts. Finn has like 40 under his belt.

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Your posts on Finn are tainted by confirmation bias. You may well be right and he may just be bad. But we haven't seen a nearly large or representative enough sample to draw that conclusion yet.

You took the contrarian view before he even took a snap here that he sucks, and are using two games -- each with their own mitigating circumstances -- as confirmation of a preconceived notion.

But again, neither Finn (in the two games we've seen him) or Robertson (in what we saw last year) has played enough at Baylor to support any strong opinions good or bad. Finn is off to a terrible start, certainly, but before the West Virginia game last year, most here (not me, incidentally) had concluded Robertson wasn't a Big 12-caliber quarterback.

We're still in the answer-searching stage. If we're earnestly intent on finding the right one, we should play both the next two games and let their play dictate who starts the rest of the season.

Wrong… I watched a ton of MAC games to draw that conclusion.. I even referenced that when he committed. I warned everyone who was just looking at his stats that there's more than meets the eye. Quit making up **** up to form your agenda. I'm basing my opinion that he blows (backed up nicely) based off what he did at Toledo. He's just reinforcing it at BU.
You thought he was some stud and are having a tough time handling being dead wrong.
My bold prediction is the moment Finn has a decent game you'll ramble about how we should have been patient and blah blah blah. Every QB even garbage ones have good days. Eventually will see Finn pull a rabbit out of his ass and play a good game or 2

IowaBear said:

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Wrong… I watched a ton of MAC games to draw that conclusion.. I even referenced that when he committed. I warned everyone who was just looking at his stats that there's more than meets the eye. Quit making up shot to form your agenda. I'm basing my opinion that he blows (backed up nicely) based off what he did at Toledo. He's just reinforcing it at BU.
You thought he was some stud and are having a tough time handling being dead wrong

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I have no agenda. My only agenda is Baylor putting the right quarterback on the field so we can win some damn games.

If anyone has an agenda, it's the one who has spent the past four months telling everyone Finn sucks.

I don't have any strong opinions on Finn one way or the other. And I'm a big Sawyer Robertson fan. The only thing I want is for the staff to make the best, most informed decision on our quarterback situation so that we can be as competitive as possible in our next 10 games.

Yeah that's the thing. If Finn was a freshman playing the way he is, I would be more forgiving. But expecting a fifth year senior or whatever he is to make drastic improvements to his mechanics from one week to the next generally doesn't happen. What you see is what you get. Carolina Panthers fans heard the same talk about Bryce Young working on his mechanics over the off-season, and we saw how that went yesterday. most of the time, you can look at a quarterback and tell if they have raw arm talent or not, and Finn does not have it. Even his highlight reel is mostly him dancing around and throwing to wide-open dudes, or scrambling against Ohio State when they were likely already in prevent mode.

My prediction about Finn's future this season is that he looks OK against Air Force this week which will give some folks a lot of false hope, then he'll poop the bed against Colorado and force Dave to make a change the week after

Daveisabovereproach said:

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Yeah that's the thing. If Finn was a freshman playing the way he is, I would be more forgiving. But expecting a fifth year senior or whatever he is to make drastic improvements to his mechanics from one week to the next generally doesn't happen. What you see is what you get. Carolina Panthers fans heard the same talk about Bryce Young working on his mechanics over the off-season, and we saw how that went yesterday. most of the time, you can look at a quarterback and tell if they have raw arm talent or not, and Finn does not have it. Even his highlight reel is mostly him dancing around and throwing to wide-open dudes, or scrambling against Ohio State when they were likely already in prevent mode.

My prediction about Finn's future this season is that he looks OK against Air Force this week which will give some folks a lot of false hope, then he'll poop the bed against Colorado and force Dave to make a change the week after

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Air Force will be better defensively than Colorado is. They'll certainly be more sound on that side of the ball.

So being straightforward about a recruit is agenda driven?? Got it…
Or maybe I just knew based off actually watching the kid that he wasn't good. I look forward to your excuses as he continues sucking it up for the majority of the season. I look forward to you blaming Spav for being too vanilla

If he looks ok against AF you'll have people like Bear2 playing the I told you so game and completely ignoring the first 2 games.

bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Finn started and sucked against freaking Tarleton St… there's ample evidence the guy is ass. I told yall that prior to the season. There's nothing yet to support Sawyer being bad with this team. He wasn't great last year. However those were his first few starts. Finn has like 40 under his belt.

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Your posts on Finn are tainted by confirmation bias. You may well be right and he may just be bad. But we haven't seen a nearly large or representative enough sample to draw that conclusion yet.

You took the contrarian view before he even took a snap here that he sucks, and are using two games -- each with their own mitigating circumstances -- as confirmation of a preconceived notion.

But again, neither Finn (in the two games we've seen him) or Robertson (in what we saw last year) has played enough at Baylor to support any strong opinions good or bad. Finn is off to a terrible start, certainly, but before the West Virginia game last year, most here (not me, incidentally) had concluded Robertson wasn't a Big 12-caliber quarterback.

We're still in the answer-searching stage. If we're earnestly intent on finding the right one, we should play both the next two games and let their play dictate who starts the rest of the season.

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There's a lot more evidence to support the conclusion that Finn is bad than to support the conclusion that he is good. I'm curious, what EVIDENCE* do you have right now that supports the conclusion that he is good. If you're not gonna provide that evidence, you need do the unthinkable and stop posting dozens and dozens of times a day about the exact same topics


* Evidence does not mean "trust me bro"

IowaBear said:

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So being straightforward about a recruit is agenda driven?? Got it…
Or maybe I just knew based off actually watching the kid that he wasn't good. I look forward to your excuses as he continues sucking it up for the majority of the season. I look forward to you blaming Spav for being too vanilla

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I won't have any excuses if that happens because, unlike you, I don't have any stake in this other than wanting the best player to play.

That's why I want to see both play the next two weeks, when there will be no excuses or variables to fall back on.

Against both Air Force and Colorado, we should be able to run Spavital's offense with some level of success in a way that highlights our quarterbacks' strengths and weaknesses. Play both and see who performs better.

Drawing definitive conclusions based on one game where we didn't show anything and one where we couldn't run our base stuff could lead to a bad decision and more losses. I want to open up the competition in games and let the best player earn the job.

IowaBear said:

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If he looks ok against AF you'll have people like Bear2 playing the I told you so game and completely ignoring the first 2 games.

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No, I won't. If he plays, I hope he does so well because I want Baylor to win.

But I have no personal stake in either of our quarterbacks over the other. I want the best player to play. Period. I'm just not as certain as you seem to be on which is the best option yet based on what both have put on film.

This isn't based off 2 games… it's based off 5 damm years. I have zero agenda against Dequan Finn as you seem to think. I call a spade a spade. I watch a ton of MAC ball (only because it's on mid week) and he was never all that impressive. The flaws have always been there. They were just masked by the talent level he faced
. I never said I was certain Robertson was better. I said play him the entire AF game and see if he is. Finn got the Tarleton game and looked like garbage. Give Sawyer the AF game. If he's not better than stick with our glorified RB. One thing I am 100% certain of is that Sawyer is the vastly superior passer

IowaBear said:

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If he looks ok against AF you'll have people like Bear2 playing the I told you so game and completely ignoring the first 2 games.

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Oh I know. He will post probably 200 times (no exaggeration, he posts more than the top several posters on the free board combined. It's like he's getting paid by the post) various iterations of the exact same argument. An argument that amounts to little more than 'trust me bro.'

bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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If he looks ok against AF you'll have people like Bear2 playing the I told you so game and completely ignoring the first 2 games.

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No, I won't. If he plays, I hope he does so well because I want Baylor to win.

But I have no personal stake in either of our quarterbacks over the other. I want the best player to play. Period. I'm just not as certain as you seem to be on which is the best option yet based on what both have put on film.

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Please use evidence to support the conclusion that Finn is the best player.

Daveisabovereproach said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Finn started and sucked against freaking Tarleton St… there's ample evidence the guy is ass. I told yall that prior to the season. There's nothing yet to support Sawyer being bad with this team. He wasn't great last year. However those were his first few starts. Finn has like 40 under his belt.

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Your posts on Finn are tainted by confirmation bias. You may well be right and he may just be bad. But we haven't seen a nearly large or representative enough sample to draw that conclusion yet.

You took the contrarian view before he even took a snap here that he sucks, and are using two games -- each with their own mitigating circumstances -- as confirmation of a preconceived notion.

But again, neither Finn (in the two games we've seen him) or Robertson (in what we saw last year) has played enough at Baylor to support any strong opinions good or bad. Finn is off to a terrible start, certainly, but before the West Virginia game last year, most here (not me, incidentally) had concluded Robertson wasn't a Big 12-caliber quarterback.

We're still in the answer-searching stage. If we're earnestly intent on finding the right one, we should play both the next two games and let their play dictate who starts the rest of the season.

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There's a lot more evidence to support the conclusion that Finn is bad than to support the conclusion that he is good. I'm curious, what EVIDENCE* do you have right now that supports the conclusion that he is good. If you're not gonna provide that evidence, you need do the unthinkable and stop posting dozens and dozens of times a day about the exact same topics


* Evidence does not mean "trust me bro"

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I didn't select DeQuan Finn the MAC Player of the Year last year or rank him the No. 11 quarterback in last year's portal class.

But those are things that suggest he's probably got more in the tank than he's shown us through two games.

I'm not even saying he does. I'm just more patient than you are when it comes to finding out on a player that is playing at a higher level and with more pressure than he ever has before.

If he sucks, he sucks. Start Robertson and move on. But I'm not quite ready to draw that conclusion yet.

Daveisabovereproach said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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If he looks ok against AF you'll have people like Bear2 playing the I told you so game and completely ignoring the first 2 games.

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No, I won't. If he plays, I hope he does so well because I want Baylor to win.

But I have no personal stake in either of our quarterbacks over the other. I want the best player to play. Period. I'm just not as certain as you seem to be on which is the best option yet based on what both have put on film.

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Please use evidence to support the conclusion that Finn is the best player.

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I've never said he is the best player, you clown. That's literally why I want to see both play in the same games.

Did you not see both play in the Tarleton game ? Or maybe you missed that?

bear2be2 said:

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Daveisabovereproach said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Finn started and sucked against freaking Tarleton St… there's ample evidence the guy is ass. I told yall that prior to the season. There's nothing yet to support Sawyer being bad with this team. He wasn't great last year. However those were his first few starts. Finn has like 40 under his belt.

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Your posts on Finn are tainted by confirmation bias. You may well be right and he may just be bad. But we haven't seen a nearly large or representative enough sample to draw that conclusion yet.

You took the contrarian view before he even took a snap here that he sucks, and are using two games -- each with their own mitigating circumstances -- as confirmation of a preconceived notion.

But again, neither Finn (in the two games we've seen him) or Robertson (in what we saw last year) has played enough at Baylor to support any strong opinions good or bad. Finn is off to a terrible start, certainly, but before the West Virginia game last year, most here (not me, incidentally) had concluded Robertson wasn't a Big 12-caliber quarterback.

We're still in the answer-searching stage. If we're earnestly intent on finding the right one, we should play both the next two games and let their play dictate who starts the rest of the season.

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There's a lot more evidence to support the conclusion that Finn is bad than to support the conclusion that he is good. I'm curious, what EVIDENCE* do you have right now that supports the conclusion that he is good. If you're not gonna provide that evidence, you need do the unthinkable and stop posting dozens and dozens of times a day about the exact same topics


* Evidence does not mean "trust me bro"

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I didn't select DeQuan Finn the MAC Player of the Year last year or rank him the No. 11 quarterback in last year's portal class.

But those are things that suggest he's probably got more in the tank than he's shown us through two games.

I'm not even saying he does. I'm just more patient than you are when it comes to finding out on a player that is playing at a higher level and with more pressure than he ever has before.

If he sucks, he sucks. Start Robertson and move on. But I'm not quite ready to draw that conclusion yet.

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If you're going to use his previous career before Baylor to support the good, you need to look at all of the data points from his previous career to calculate the bad as well.

this is about like playing a freshman that was formerly the TAPPS 4A player of the year, watching them struggle, then pointing to their high school career as a reason that they should keep their starting job in college. We have other guys on our current team that were pretty good on their previous teams that we picked up through the transfer portal. No one is going to use the 'they were good at their previous stop' argument should they start the struggle.

IowaBear said:

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Did you not see both play in the Tarleton game ? Or maybe you missed that?

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I saw Finn do some really nice things in the first half and Sawyer get one garbage-time drive. He did well in that drive, but that wasn't exactly definitive proof that he'll repeat that while starting against better defenses.

And for the record, I wanted Sawyer to get most of the second half against Tarleton and to get a shot late in the first half against Utah.

I want to see him get the same types of opportunities Finn has gotten. I'm just not ready to declare Finn a complete failure or Robertson the answer yet. I want to see more of both in meaningful situations against the same defenses.

At the end of the day no one even me want Finn to fail. Because that likely means BU took an L. I hope for the programs sake if he continues to start that he at least has a few really good games because that likely means a dub. But I'm firmly in the boat of giving Sawyer a whole game. Give him a chance to build confidence and find a rhythm. And if he doesn't we roll with Finn and pray he has a few big games down the stretch.

IowaBear said:

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At the end of the day no one even me want Finn to fail. Because that likely means BU took an L. I hope for the programs sake if he continues to start that he at least has a few really good games because that likely means a dub. But I'm firmly in the boat of giving Sawyer a whole game. Give him a chance to build confidence and find a rhythm. And if he doesn't we roll with Finn and pray he has a few big games down the stretch.

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I don't doubt any of this. I think you viewed some of my posts above as overly accusatory, and they weren't meant to be. I think your mind is already made up on Finn, and it shapes the way you view him and his weaknesses, but I've never gotten the impression that you were rooting for him to fail.

And I'm not about to tell you that Finn has been good in his last six quarters of football. He pretty obviously has not been. But I'm willing to have a little bit more grace for a guy that has had a fair amount of success in the past and is transitioning to a much higher level of play with more pressure than he's ever faced before.

If he continues to look like has the first two games for another game or two, I fully support a change at that position. I'm already for giving Sawyer some opportunities and rolling with him if he's more effective.

I do think the level of defenses we're facing the next three games will allow more opportunities for Finn to do the things he does well. But he's got to do it. And if he can't, it will be time to admit that he's just not up to quarterbacking a team at this level. I'm just not there quite yet.

Finn absolutely has chances in the coming weeks against defenses that quite frankly aren't good. Ultimately as a kid I like Dequan he clearly has a good head on his shoulders. I just don't like him as a player. It's nothing personal. That said I would love for Dequan to prove me wrong and come on strong starting with AF. Hell I'd be ok if we get even 3-4 strong games from him. Because like I said that likely results in dubs.
But with all that said I think Sawyer has earned the chance at extended playing time vs AF. And I think unfortunately Dequan's play has warranted Sawyer getting extended run to at least see what we have with him.

IowaBear said:

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Finn absolutely has chances in the coming weeks against defenses that quite frankly aren't good. Ultimately as a kid I like Dequan he clearly has a good head on his shoulders. I just don't like him as a player. It's nothing personal. That said I would love for Dequan to prove me wrong and come on strong starting with AF. Hell I'd be ok if we get even 3-4 strong games from him. Because like I said that likely results in dubs.
But with all that said I think Sawyer has earned the chance at extended playing time vs AF. And I think unfortunately Dequan's play has warranted Sawyer getting extended run to at least see what we have with him.

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I'm a big Sawyer Robertson fan. I loved him out of high school was stoked when he got him as a transfer. I would have been perfectly content to hand the offense over to him this season and see if he can do the job effectively.

But I am intrigued by some of the things that Finn can do with his legs. We haven't unlocked that yet, and if we can't, it will shine a brighter spotlight on the things he can't do with his arm. But I'm willing to wait and see what he looks like these next few weeks before giving up on him.

I would like to see Sawyer get some real opportunities in the meantime, though. A) I think he's earned them. And B) I don't think it's fair to wait until things are really dire and the future of our staff is on the line before we drop the weight of the season on his shoulders without any chance to ease into a starting role.

The idea of playing 2 QB's "equal time" in a game, both in equal situations, never works, unless you're absolutely committed to it. And that commitment usually changes based on performance and momentum.

If was the coach, with my job on the line, I'd start Sawyer. He wasn't a world beater last year, but he was better than anything I've seen out of Finn.

I don't go to Baylor practice.

But Sawyer was IMO the 3rd best QB last year and if you want to say he was the 2nd that's fine, not gonna fight about it.

But some of us are basing "Sawyer better than Finn" on the drive of Sawyer in the final minutes against a completely gassed Tarleton State defense. Sawyer didn't tire them out first half. I'm not opposed to seeing him play. But let's be rational. He didn't do enough to beat Finn outright in the summer.
I'm guilty as anyone of loving backup QBs. But Sawyer sucks. Finn sucks too. Up to Dave A to decide who is the nicest fella among them. Only way Sawyer starts a game at Baylor is via injury or if Finn says a cuss word.

Sawyer and Finn are bad qb's. All we are doing is trying to start the one that isn't as bad as the other at this point.

You know how hard it is to come off the bench as a qb in the middle of the game when everyone else is warm and in their rhythm. Then as soon as you finally get some rhythm and confidence and get it going then your worried about being pulled. That's hard to do , Maybe it's easy for some people I dunno ?

Playing two QBs for an entire year is not the way to go. Other than specific situations where you bring in the back up to run or for certain plays or to line up at WR to set up a double pass it is not good to rotate them every series or quarter.

But

For one game to figure out who the starter should be it can and does work all the time. Especially early in the season when the competition is not as tough (usually) but you get live game action to see who steps up.

Even the best coaches have done that. Saban did it a few times that I can think of in the first game of the season.

Reverend said:

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The idea of playing 2 QB's "equal time" in a game, both in equal situations, never works, unless you're absolutely committed to it. And that commitment usually changes based on performance and momentum.

If was the coach, with my job on the line, I'd start Sawyer. He wasn't a world beater last year, but he was better than anything I've seen out of Finn.

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One of the local high schools I cover did it through the first two games last year and it revealed the best option quickly. From that point forward, they committed to him and continued to improve throughout the season.

It's best as a temporary solution IMO, but it's a really good way to get a direct comparison between two players when you're not sure from practice alone which gives you the best chance to win.

Killing Floor said:

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I don't go to Baylor practice.

But Sawyer was IMO the 3rd best QB last year and if you want to say he was the 2nd that's fine, not gonna fight about it.

But some of us are basing "Sawyer better than Finn" on the drive of Sawyer in the final minutes against a completely gassed Tarleton State defense. Sawyer didn't tire them out first half. I'm not opposed to seeing him play. But let's be rational. He didn't do enough to beat Finn outright in the summer.
I'm guilty as anyone of loving backup QBs. But Sawyer sucks. Finn sucks too. Up to Dave A to decide who is the nicest fella among them. Only way Sawyer starts a game at Baylor is via injury or if Finn says a cuss word.

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Sawyer played really well against West Virginia last year. He was fully healthy and played a legitimately excellent game. There's reason based on his last two appearances for us to be optimistic about his ability to guide our offense.

I agree he still comes with some question marks, but I don't think it's fair to say he sucks based on his limited body of work either.

Robertson can move the chains more consistently I believe. That is what you need in a QB. Finn will get injured if he runs as much as he did against Utah.

dstaylor57 said:

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Robertson can move the chains more consistently I believe. That is what you need in a QB. Finn will get injured if he runs as much as he did against Utah.

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Ultimately, behind this O Line, they'll both probably start multiple games this year.

Nice discussion about who is better between Robertson and Finn, Let me throw out a different possibility, Aranda had to make a decision about which to start, even though he went to the last week to choose who would start. Sounds like Aranda considered them as equals in ability. If you were Aranda and spent a considerable amount of NIL money to get Finn, do you really want to go back to the backers, who put up the money in the forst place, and tell them your starting QB was already on the roster ?

BEAR 45 said:

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Nice discussion about who is better between Robertson and Finn, Let me throw out a different possibility, Aranda had to make a decision about which to start, even though he went to the last week to choose who would start. Sounds like Aranda considered them as equals in ability. If you were Aranda and spent a considerable amount of NIL money to get Finn, do you really want to go back to the backers, who put up the money in the forst place, and tell them your starting QB was already on the roster ?

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If you're Aranda, you start whoever you think gives you the best chance to win. Period. Otherwise you're probably out of a job soon.

bear2be2 said:

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CaliBear00 said:

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Jeff Watson enters the discussion. Finn is clearly a NIL bust, but worst QB in Baylor history? Goodness, no.

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This is a program that started Michael Odom, Guy Tomchek, Kerry Dixon, Davon Vinson, Terrance Parks, etc. We've had worse QBs, for sure.

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please stop, it took me years to bury those awful memories and here you go digging them up again.