IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

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I never said anything about elite. Just talent.

Talented doesn't have to mean elite.

But thank you for admitting there was talent on the roster.

So why include him? He didn't play on that 1-11 team. You're moving goalposts if that's the case.
Either way the guys you named. None were established players at the CFB level which furthers my point. We were bare bones when it comes to proven CFB level talent. Not to mention we had what 50 scholarship players that year? Most of which belonged in the MAC.
I didn't admit squat. I couldn't disagree more with your take. The players you listed became good CFB players. They sure as **** weren't during the 1-11 campaign. Rhule developed them

IowaBear said:

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So why include him? He didn't play on that 1-11 team. You're moving goalposts if that's the case.
Either way the guys you named. None were established players at the CFB level which furthers my point. We were bare bones when it comes to proven CFB level talent. Not to mention we had what 50 scholarship players that year? Most of which belonged in the MAC.
I didn't admit squat. I couldn't disagree more with your take. The players you listed became good CFB players. They sure as **** weren't during the 1-11 campaign. Rhule developed them

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Lol you are the ONLY one moving goalposts.

I said simply that we had talent on the team.

You said no we didn't.

I listed the players and you said

"Talented sure"

As in you admitted they had talent and were on the roster you claim had zero talent.

One does not have to be "established players at the CFB" to be talented.

They had talent. They were on the 2017 roster. Thus we had talent on that team.

You even agreed with it in your own words.

cowboycwr said:

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Stranger said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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I have never heard one Dallas Cowboys fan complain about Jimmy Johnson's 1-15 first season in Dallas.

And they had Troy . Michael..and Emmitt..he stripped the thing down to see who could play and build his culture...I'm sure they could have squeaked out 2-3 more wins playing washed up veterans.

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Internet message boards weren't a thing…..

ESPN did not have 15 different shows dedicated to the NFL, talking heads, fantasy sports shows, and was not as well known as today.

Otherwise I'm sure there would have been a lot of complaining.

Also, the win immediately attitude of the NFL and college did not exist as much yet

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are we still kicking little Matty around?

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I'm not kicking him around. I even called him a good coach in my first post.

I just pointed out his factual record overall and at Baylor, as others have done about his record against ranked teams, and that his first year was a failure and the excuse cannot be it was the worst roster Baylor ever had.

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. . . some might say he's a crook

Talent ready and talent on the team are 2 very different things… the players you listed aside from Chuck made very little impact that season because they weren't ready. Pitre, Roy, Hasty, Ebner none of those guys were talent ready meaning they could step in and immediately make an impact. You're literally used Jalen Hurd as an example of why we should have 1 more games while admitting he was redshirting
Will have to agree to disagree because that team has zero talent ready players.

IowaBear said:

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Talent ready and talent on the team are 2 very different things… the players you listed aside from Chuck made very little impact that season because they weren't ready. Pitre, Roy, Hasty, Ebner none of those guys were talent ready meaning they could step in and immediately make an impact.
Will have to agree to disagree because that team has zero talent ready players.

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Like I said, you are the one moving the goalposts.

That is not what your first post said.

Keep moving the goalposts to make yourself feel better

I mean was it not self explanatory? Or is your FB IQ that low?? I agreed those players were talented. I never agreed they were talent ready enough to step on the field and stacks dubs. There's a difference. Most football fans can figure that out
Answer my question is there a difference between Jalen Pitre year 1 and year 4? Because according to you they were the same player.
How many games should that Uber talented BU team have won in your eyes?

boykin_spaniel said:

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Mike Leach may never get an official HOF induction because his winning percentage is 59 but 60 is required to get in currently. No one doubts Leach isn't deserving because he coached 3 historically challenged teams to big wins and seasons.

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I'm more butt hurt about this than I am of Rhule leaving us....

Mike Leach not being in the College Hall of Fame is a travesty

[He doesn't meet the selection criteria.
The Hall of Fame requires coaching nominees to "have been a head football coach for a minimum of 10 years and coached at least 100 games with a .600 winning percentage."
Leach coached for 21 years and won 158 games.
But his career winning percentage is .596, and the Hall of Fame does not round up.]

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/wsu-cougar-football/why-former-wsu-coach-mike-leach-is-one-win-short-of-college-football-hall-of-fame/#:~:text=He%20doesn't%20meet%20the,years%20and%20won%20158%20games.

bear2be2 said:

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PartyBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Dave Aranda is loyal

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I like that Aranda is loyal, but you've got to win games for that to matter.

There are lot of things off the field and in the culture department that I like about Dave Aranda. But his job is win football games. If he can't do that part of his job, the other stuff simply doesn't matter.

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Do you understand this is the exact opposite of your anti Briles arguments over the years. That the other stuff doesn't matter and that it is only winning that matters when it comes to Aranda.

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running a disciplined program with integrity and winning aren't in any way, shape or form mutually exclusive.

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In a perfect world, sure.

When you lose 32 out of your last 33 conference games and you can't get good recruits to go to your program, mutually exclusive becomes a reality.

What I don't get is after we won the Heisman, he continued to gamble on guys. That just speaks to poor leadership and decision making.

IowaBear said:

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I mean was it not self explanatory? Or is your FB IQ that low?? I agreed those players were talented. I never agreed they were talent ready enough to step on the field and stacks dubs. There's a difference. Most football fans can figure that out
Answer my question is there a difference between Jalen Pitre year 1 and year 4? Because according to you they were the same player.
How many games should that Uber talented BU team have won in your eyes?

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Lol. I never said any such thing. But again keep moving the goalpost.

I simply said the roster had talent on it. You said it did not and then changed it to say it did.

There is a difference between talent and Uber talent.

Keep moving the goalpost.

IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

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Also, eight or nine good (mostly skill) players does not a good football team make. That team could have probably won two or three more games than it did, but it had a hard ceiling due to our lack of line talent on both sides of the football.

That offensive line, in particularly, was atrocious.

bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

---

Also, eight or nine good (mostly skill) players does not a good football team make. That team could have probably won two or three more games than it did, but it had a hard ceiling due to our lack of line talent on both sides of the football.

That offensive line, in particularly, was atrocious.

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Mo Porter, Xavier Newman, Patrick Lawrence, Blake Blackmar and Sam Tecklenburg (all of whom started on the offensive line against Kansas that season) were all good enough to get a least a look by the NFL.

D. C. Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

---

Also, eight or nine good (mostly skill) players does not a good football team make. That team could have probably won two or three more games than it did, but it had a hard ceiling due to our lack of line talent on both sides of the football.

That offensive line, in particularly, was atrocious.

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Mo Porter, Xavier Newman, Patrick Lawrence, Blake Blackmar and Sam Tecklenburg (all of whom started on the offensive line against Kansas that season) were all good enough to get a least a look by the NFL.

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Newman was a true freshman, Tecklenburg was a sophomore converted tight end and Porter, Lawrence and Blackmar, while experienced in Briles system, all struggled mightily with the transition to Nixon's more conventional blocking schemes. And because of the lack of returning talent and injuries suffered in preseason, we had no depth whatsoever behind that group.

The four that returned after that 2017 season all made huge strides in future years, but the stats that year speak for themselves. We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and allowed an astronomical 38 sacks.

Our only offense that season was the handful of explosives we got every game from Mims and/or Platt (before his injury).

bear2be2 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

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Also, eight or nine good (mostly skill) players does not a good football team make. That team could have probably won two or three more games than it did, but it had a hard ceiling due to our lack of line talent on both sides of the football.

That offensive line, in particularly, was atrocious.

---

Mo Porter, Xavier Newman, Patrick Lawrence, Blake Blackmar and Sam Tecklenburg (all of whom started on the offensive line against Kansas that season) were all good enough to get a least a look by the NFL.

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Newman was a true freshman, Tecklenburg was a sophomore converted tight end and Porter, Lawrence and Blackmar, while experienced in Briles system, all struggled mightily with the transition to Nixon's more conventional blocking schemes. And because of the lack of returning talent and injuries suffered in preseason, we had no depth whatsoever behind that group.

The four that returned after that 2017 season all made huge strides in future years, but the stats that year speak for themselves. We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and allowed an astronomical 38 sacks.

Our only offense that season was the handful of explosives we got every game from Mims and/or Platt (before his injury).

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Thank you. They were atrocious, but they didn't stay that way. Last year's offensive line was also atrocious with a lot of youth and not a lot of depth. I think we will see similar growth with the line we have now. I also suspect we would view their play differently had Finn been accurate last Saturday.

I'm not saying we didn't have talent. I'm saying it was young. He experimented with the roster to get guys reps and find their positions moving forward. Young talent classically melts down late in games just like against Liberty. With lessons learned from that season we went 7-6 the following year and 11-3 the year after that.

No one is arguing the man is Nick Saban but he's a solid coach with a track record for taking dumpster fires and morphing them into winning teams over 3 years.

He wasn't perfect. I wasn't super impressed with our offense. Worried for Charlie Brewer's brain. We somehow blew the big lead to OU. Phil Snow was a stud, the staff discovered some diamonds in the rough to setup 2021, and the team clearly responded to the culture in positive way. Just like Nebraska celebrating their win against Colorado.

Travesty indeed. They need to have a voting system that can override the requirements, like if majority of living members vote to override a statistic then the coach can get in. He's less than 1% away and he coached at historically downtrodden programs.

Leach is someone who defined college football in all its glory. Quirky, spoke his mind, innovated the game in a massive way, beloved by all fans of the sport (spectators, coaches, players, media), and is in two university sports HOF

D. C. Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Hurd wasn't on the 1-11 squad. He came the following year. The guys you listed were raw. Talented sure, but very raw. None of them truly reached their potential under Rhule until year 3-4.
Hasty, Blake Lynch, Ebner were never elite players. Solid pieces sure. But never elite. The only guy you listed with elite talent was Pitre and Mims and they were what Freshman in Rhules first year?

---

Also, eight or nine good (mostly skill) players does not a good football team make. That team could have probably won two or three more games than it did, but it had a hard ceiling due to our lack of line talent on both sides of the football.

That offensive line, in particularly, was atrocious.

---

Mo Porter, Xavier Newman, Patrick Lawrence, Blake Blackmar and Sam Tecklenburg (all of whom started on the offensive line against Kansas that season) were all good enough to get a least a look by the NFL.

---

Newman was a true freshman, Tecklenburg was a sophomore converted tight end and Porter, Lawrence and Blackmar, while experienced in Briles system, all struggled mightily with the transition to Nixon's more conventional blocking schemes. And because of the lack of returning talent and injuries suffered in preseason, we had no depth whatsoever behind that group.

The four that returned after that 2017 season all made huge strides in future years, but the stats that year speak for themselves. We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and allowed an astronomical 38 sacks.

Our only offense that season was the handful of explosives we got every game from Mims and/or Platt (before his injury).

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Thank you. They were atrocious, but they didn't stay that way. Last year's offensive line was also atrocious with a lot of youth and not a lot of depth. I think we will see similar growth with the line we have now. I also suspect we would view their play differently had Finn been accurate last Saturday.

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The 2017 group didn't get better that season.

And this one, which unlike the 2018 unit is starting over in a new system, is already off to an abysmal start. They have miles to travel just to reach a place where they're serviceable. I would hope they show some improvement over the course this season, but a) that's no guarantee, and b) it will likely be incremental, not transformational.

Based on what we've shown up front, I just can't see this year's offense ever being more than serviceable. That might be enough to win some games and get to a bowl with the defense we have this year. But it doesn't exactly inspire confidence going forward either.

boykin_spaniel said:

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I'm not saying we didn't have talent. I'm saying it was young. He experimented with the roster to get guys reps and find their positions moving forward. Young talent classically melts down late in games just like against Liberty. With lessons learned from that season we went 7-6 the following year and 11-3 the year after that.

No one is arguing the man is Nick Saban but he's a solid coach with a track record for taking dumpster fires and morphing them into winning teams over 3 years.

He wasn't perfect. I wasn't super impressed with our offense. Worried for Charlie Brewer's brain. We somehow blew the big lead to OU. Phil Snow was a stud, the staff discovered some diamonds in the rough to setup 2021, and the team clearly responded to the culture in positive way. Just like Nebraska celebrating their win against Colorado.

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The hate for the Jeff Nixon offense looks kind of silly in hindsight. It was only even remotely disappointing when compared to what Baylor had previously.

We averaged 29.5 points and 459.1 yards per game in 2018 and 33.6 points and 421.5 yards per game in 2019 (on almost eight fewer plays per game).

I would kill for that production right now. And would have last year as well.

I wonder if Rhule could beat Liberty with the extra NFL experience

Posting from the grave with your Alzheimer's I see ..

ron.reagan said:

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I wonder if Rhule could beat Liberty with the extra NFL experience

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Liberty program is vastly improved since he last faced them

ron.reagan said:

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I wonder if Rhule could beat Liberty with the extra NFL experience

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The legend of Buckshot Calvert.

I believe the Flames went 6-5 that year. They can thank us for their winning record.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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I hated that Rhule would do things like "Oklahoma Drill" before the game. It told me he cared more about his career than player safety.

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How does running that drill equate to him caring more about his career?

TBH it was one of my favorite drills in high school

When you go from 600 ypg and 40+ pts a game there is going to be negative comparisons usually.

My issue with the offense under Rhule was we would go conservative or have lapses where we would blow leads like OU or have to survive with last second field goals like TCU, Iowa St, WV. Rhule would start working in reserves up 20. Finish the opponent off. Those are my offensive complaints.

EVERY coach wants to coach in the top league, which is the NFL.
They all want to be in that rare air.
Now, coaching pro players is a bit different than coaching college players.
Ask Nick Sagan, or even Bud Wilkinson.
The fact that Rhule didn't have success in the NFL is not a knock on him.
But to hate on someone who wanted to move up the ladder makes no sense to me.

jikespingleton said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I hated that Rhule would do things like "Oklahoma Drill" before the game. It told me he cared more about his career than player safety.

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How does running that drill equate to him caring more about his career?

TBH it was one of my favorite drills in high school

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Did you run it on game day before strapping up against the best team in your conference?

I don't know your age. What today's coaches are doing is less contact to prevent head injuries.

It's still a physical game. If a player ain't physically ready by Wednesday, adding 5 more shots to the head before going up against Oklahoma ain't gonna do it.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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jikespingleton said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I hated that Rhule would do things like "Oklahoma Drill" before the game. It told me he cared more about his career than player safety.

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How does running that drill equate to him caring more about his career?

TBH it was one of my favorite drills in high school

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What today's coaches are doing is less contact to prevent head injuries.

It's still a physical game. If a player ain't physically ready by Wednesday, adding 5 more shots to the head before going up against Oklahoma ain't gonna do it.

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How does running that drill mean he cares more about his career, though?

If you helped cause injury to your players, wouldn't that be more likely to hurt your career?

Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

Pecos 45 said:

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Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

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A week after the Liberty loss, Matt Rhule lost to UTSA. At home. But don't forget, - "Trust the process!"

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

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A week after the Liberty loss, Matt Rhule lost to UTSA. At home. But don't forget, - "Trust the process!"

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Boy hidy, does any real fan miss little Matty?

Stranger said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

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A week after the Liberty loss, Matt Rhule lost to UTSA. At home. But don't forget, - "Trust the process!"

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Boy hidy, does any real fan miss little Matty?

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You should stick to complaining about the destruction of the alumni center because you obviously know little about improvement made by Rhule in his three years here.

Quote:

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Matt Rhule is in his third season as Baylor head coach in 2019. After leading the Bears to 11 wins, a No. 7 national ranking and their first berth in the Big 12 Championship, Rhule was voted the Chuck Neinas Coach of the Year by his peers.

Additionally, Rhule guided Baylor to its second-ever Sugar Bowl appearance and the 25th bowl berth in program history. Under his leadership, the Bears became the first Power 5 program to go from 11 losses to 11 wins within two seasons.

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Stranger said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

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A week after the Liberty loss, Matt Rhule lost to UTSA. At home. But don't forget, - "Trust the process!"

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Boy hidy, does any real fan miss little Matty?

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You should stick to complaining about the destruction of the alumni center because you obviously know little about improvement made by Rhule in his three years here.

Quote:

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Matt Rhule is in his third season as Baylor head coach in 2019. After leading the Bears to 11 wins, a No. 7 national ranking and their first berth in the Big 12 Championship, Rhule was voted the Chuck Neinas Coach of the Year by his peers.

Additionally, Rhule guided Baylor to its second-ever Sugar Bowl appearance and the 25th bowl berth in program history. Under his leadership, the Bears became the first Power 5 program to go from 11 losses to 11 wins within two seasons.

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so he left for more money, right? and how did that gig work out? did he get fired there? oh well, what did he care cause he got paid well.

Stranger said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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Grant Teaff lost to San Jose State so what's your point?

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A week after the Liberty loss, Matt Rhule lost to UTSA. At home. But don't forget, - "Trust the process!"

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Boy hidy, does any real fan miss little Matty?

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He was a lot better than what we currently are stuck with, so there's that. "Missing" someone is actually pretty nuanced. I think we can do better than Rhule, but we can obviously do a lot worse (like what we currently have)