Chuckroast said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Can't argue with that. Rhule's sugar bowl team was in no way dominant and won mostly by smoke and mirrors in an extremely down conference year. He then followed that with a very mediocre year and bolted. I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. I was not sad to see him go.

I believe Aranda's sugar bowl champion team was far and away the best team we have had since the Briles era. It's just too bad that we have been in a downward spiral ever since. I really like Aranda and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don't think we have to be world beaters to have a chance to win our conference, so at least there's always hope with the dawn of a new season.

---

Do you just make stuff up or is your memory really that bad? Rhule left immediately after his best year.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Can't argue with that. Rhule's sugar bowl team was in no way dominant and won mostly by smoke and mirrors in an extremely down conference year. He then followed that with a very mediocre year and bolted. I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. I was not sad to see him go.

I believe Aranda's sugar bowl champion team was far and away the best team we have had since the Briles era. It's just too bad that we have been in a downward spiral ever since. I really like Aranda and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don't think we have to be world beaters to have a chance to win our conference, so at least there's always hope with the dawn of a new season.

---

Do you just make stuff up or is your memory really that bad? Rhule left immediately after his best year.

---

I guess so - I flip-flopped year 2 and year 3 in my mind.

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Can't argue with that. Rhule's sugar bowl team was in no way dominant and won mostly by smoke and mirrors in an extremely down conference year. He then followed that with a very mediocre year and bolted. I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. I was not sad to see him go.

I believe Aranda's sugar bowl champion team was far and away the best team we have had since the Briles era. It's just too bad that we have been in a downward spiral ever since. I really like Aranda and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don't think we have to be world beaters to have a chance to win our conference, so at least there's always hope with the dawn of a new season.

---

Do you just make stuff up or is your memory really that bad? Rhule left immediately after his best year.

---

I guess so - I flip-flopped year 2 and year 3 in my mind.

---

I think I was just underwhelmed by our sugar bowl team in spite of our record. The way we were dominated in the trenches in that sugar bowl exposed that team. We won a lot of close games against mediocre competition that year. That team could've easily been 7-6 in a normal big 12 conference year. I think Rhule realized he had reached his ceiling at Baylor

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Can't argue with that. Rhule's sugar bowl team was in no way dominant and won mostly by smoke and mirrors in an extremely down conference year. He then followed that with a very mediocre year and bolted. I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. I was not sad to see him go.

I believe Aranda's sugar bowl champion team was far and away the best team we have had since the Briles era. It's just too bad that we have been in a downward spiral ever since. I really like Aranda and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don't think we have to be world beaters to have a chance to win our conference, so at least there's always hope with the dawn of a new season.

---

Do you just make stuff up or is your memory really that bad? Rhule left immediately after his best year.

---

I guess so - I flip-flopped year 2 and year 3 in my mind.

---

I think I was just underwhelmed by our sugar bowl team in spite of our record. The way we were dominated in the trenches in that sugar bowl exposed that team. We won a lot of close games against mediocre competition that year. That team could've easily been 7-6 in a normal big 12 conference year.

---

Maybe we should officially change that seasons record to 7-6 to show our contempt for that team and its coach

I think post Briles we have been back at our historical form. We have generally been mediocre. The 97-08 period was actually the outlier as much as the Briles era but on different ends of the spectrum. I agree however by around 14 or 15 the tectonic plates of college football were shifting and we were on the verge of being a nouveau riche elite. The big beneficiary of the restoration of the historic order by our own board? Look in Austin arent they number 1 or 2 again and at that level for the long haul again it appears?

FLBear5630 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Difference is Rhule knows when to get out. When he got all the juice he is going to get. Dave, just stayed.

---

The difference is Matt Rhule took on three rebuilds and improved all three programs on his watch. Dave Aranda took a house with championship bones and burned it to the ground in four years.

Anyone comparing the head coaching careers of Matt Rhule and Dave Aranda doesn't know ball. There's a reason Matt Rhule keeps getting better jobs and Dave Aranda will be back calling defenses exclusively once he's inevitably fired.

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Difference is Rhule knows when to get out. When he got all the juice he is going to get. Dave, just stayed.

---

The difference is Matt Rhule took on three rebuilds and improved all three programs on his watch. Dave Aranda took a house with championship bones and burned it to the ground in four years.

Anyone comparing the head coaching careers of Matt Rhule and Dave Aranda doesn't know ball. There's a reason Matt Rhule keeps getting better jobs and Dave Aranda will be back calling defenses exclusively once he's inevitably fired.

---

Do not disagree on Rhule. He has a better sense of what is sustainable and what is not. Maybe THAT makes him a better coach.

You really think that BU had Champion Bones? I don't. We had the remains of a flash in the pan that Aranda MISTOOK as Champion Bones and he stayed when he should have gone to Stanford for big money. He would fit Stanford and can recruit Stanford (recruits itself). His MISREAD on the BU "Infrastructure" will be his downfall. BU does not have the pipelines to be any more than what it is. Down 3, compete 1 and win 1 per recycling cycle.

I agree he will end up a DC at a top program that has the talent to do what he wants. OR, the NFL where he can get as sophisticated as he wants. Those players are pros and can handle it.

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Can't argue with that. Rhule's sugar bowl team was in no way dominant and won mostly by smoke and mirrors in an extremely down conference year. He then followed that with a very mediocre year and bolted. I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. I was not sad to see him go.

I believe Aranda's sugar bowl champion team was far and away the best team we have had since the Briles era. It's just too bad that we have been in a downward spiral ever since. I really like Aranda and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don't think we have to be world beaters to have a chance to win our conference, so at least there's always hope with the dawn of a new season.

---

Do you just make stuff up or is your memory really that bad? Rhule left immediately after his best year.

---

I guess so - I flip-flopped year 2 and year 3 in my mind.

---

I think I was just underwhelmed by our sugar bowl team in spite of our record. The way we were dominated in the trenches in that sugar bowl exposed that team. We won a lot of close games against mediocre competition that year. That team could've easily been 7-6 in a normal big 12 conference year.

---

Maybe we should officially change that seasons record to 7-6 to show our contempt for that team and its coach

---

I just think that Rhule was generally overhyped . . . and I never really liked the guy. He seemed to go to great lenghts to abandon the offensive formula that had worked for us and take us to an old school 3 yards and a cloud of dust tough guy approach. Except, it's mostly bluebloods that truly win in the trenches. His approach was not going to be successful any time soon at Baylor. A school like Baylor has to be innovative. Kids also want to play in a fun system. Since Briles left, Baylor football has just been floating along without an identity.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Difference is Rhule knows when to get out. When he got all the juice he is going to get. Dave, just stayed.

---

The difference is Matt Rhule took on three rebuilds and improved all three programs on his watch. Dave Aranda took a house with championship bones and burned it to the ground in four years.

Anyone comparing the head coaching careers of Matt Rhule and Dave Aranda doesn't know ball. There's a reason Matt Rhule keeps getting better jobs and Dave Aranda will be back calling defenses exclusively once he's inevitably fired.

---

Do not disagree on Rhule. He has a better sense of what is sustainable and what is not. Maybe THAT makes him a better coach.

You really think that BU had Champion Bones? I don't. We had the remains of a flash in the pan that Aranda MISTOOK as Champion Bones and he stayed when he should have gone to Stanford for big money. He would fit Stanford and can recruit Stanford (recruits itself). His MISREAD on the BU "Infrastructure" will be his downfall. BU does not have the pipelines to be any more than what it is. Down 3, compete 1 and win 1 per recycling cycle.

I agree he will end up a DC at a top program that has the talent to do what he wants. OR, the NFL where he can get as sophisticated as he wants. Those players are pros and can handle it.

---

We played for a Big 12 championship the year Rhule left, losing to Oklahoma in overtime, and watched the players Rhule left Aranda win one two years later.

I don't think we had championship bones. It was a fact.

We went from playing for two conference titles in three years and winning one to finishing 3-9 and praying for bowl eligibility two and three years later.

The problem in this equation is Aranda, not our program.

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

jikespingleton said:

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Yogi said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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Good post. This board views appreciation for Briles and Rhule as mutually exclusive. It's absurd.

---

Agreed. I do not get why there is some sort of Briles vs. Rhule tribalism.

Briles should be revered for where he took Baylor football to heights where we never thought possible.

Rhule came in at our lowest point and brought remarkable success.

Both should be celebrated for what they did for the university.

Yes, I wish Rhule was still coaching here, but it is not like he left Baylor for Texas or TCU.

---

My main issue with Briles is that his own lack of leadership and integrity ruined what was and should have remained a very good thing at Baylor.

He cut corners you can't cut, especially at a place like Baylor, that a) claims to hold a higher standard, and b) won't get the media indifference/protection that large state schools do.

And it wasn't something that happened to him. It was conscious decisions he made, as his illicit use of and incriminating conversations with a low-rent fixer would prove.

Art Briles was an offensive genius. He should have gone down as one of the great college football coaches of all time. Unfortunately, his own failures kept that from happening, and he took us down with him.

I have good memories from his time in Waco. But I don't have any real reverence for him for that reason.

I have a lot more respect for Rhule, who brought us a high-level of success without sacrificing what we claim to stand for as a university. Same for Aranda as well. He just hasn't won enough, unfortunately.

---

1. This was an issue of Baylor's compliance department being ignorant of new executive orders that were issued in 2011 by President Obama that fundamentally changed the manner in which sexual assault cases are handled under Title IX.

2. for turning down UT's offer to interview in 2013.


3. And, FWIW, Baylor conducted its own investigation that found no violations by CAB.

4. We're just a society that has a knee jerk reaction to the words "sexual assault" and so we like to jump to conclusions in nearly all those cases without rationally reviewing the situation.

---

Thanks for adding your takes.


1. Ignorance. Being ignorant of the law does not excuse breaking it. Why were we ignorant? Well there is a deeper story here. It seem Starr took issue with the law(s) and felt it was overreaching. So instead of making sure his University was compliant, he basically said the DOE had overstepped its power and dragged his feet on compliance. We all know how that worked out.

2. Conspiracy. This is one of my favorites that I've seen over the years. UT was spurned, so they were out to get Briles. Cool story bro.

3. Fox guarding the hen house. An entity found no violations committed by....itself. Impressive!

4. Knee jerk. Knee jerk reaction to...the information that Baylor put out in the media to bury itself.


I don't think Briles nor the program was nearly as corrupt/bad/rogue as it was made out to be. It's also clear that there was a distinct lack of oversight and leadership. Perhaps someone or some people in the BOI saw that was the case, and decided to place all the schools shortcomings on it. If that is true, or if the depth of 'lawlessness' in the football program was true or if the truth is in the middle, my conclusion is still the same: There was a void of leadership at Baylor, across many levels.

---

Thank you for getting to the heart of the matter.

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Difference is Rhule knows when to get out. When he got all the juice he is going to get. Dave, just stayed.

---

The difference is Matt Rhule took on three rebuilds and improved all three programs on his watch. Dave Aranda took a house with championship bones and burned it to the ground in four years.

Anyone comparing the head coaching careers of Matt Rhule and Dave Aranda doesn't know ball. There's a reason Matt Rhule keeps getting better jobs and Dave Aranda will be back calling defenses exclusively once he's inevitably fired.

---

Do not disagree on Rhule. He has a better sense of what is sustainable and what is not. Maybe THAT makes him a better coach.

You really think that BU had Champion Bones? I don't. We had the remains of a flash in the pan that Aranda MISTOOK as Champion Bones and he stayed when he should have gone to Stanford for big money. He would fit Stanford and can recruit Stanford (recruits itself). His MISREAD on the BU "Infrastructure" will be his downfall. BU does not have the pipelines to be any more than what it is. Down 3, compete 1 and win 1 per recycling cycle.

I agree he will end up a DC at a top program that has the talent to do what he wants. OR, the NFL where he can get as sophisticated as he wants. Those players are pros and can handle it.

---

We played for a Big 12 championship the year Rhule left, losing to Oklahoma in overtime, and watched the players Rhule left Aranda win one two years later.

I don't think we had championship bones. It was a fact.

We went from playing for two conference titles in three years and winning one to finishing 3-9 and praying for bowl eligibility two and three years later.

The problem in this equation is Aranda, not our program.

---

The problem is that the variability in the equation outside of the coaching may be more than sufficient to account for the recent poor records. If it does, then replacing Aranda would be an unnecessary and costly step both in terms of money and time.

In baseball, momentum is as good as your next day starting pitcher. In college football, momentum is as good as your recent recruiting classes. In 2020 we our recruiting class was about 50th. That's not good enough. Some folks say that Rhule basically quit recruiting. Whether he did or not, there weren't any "championship bones" in that 2020 class. We also had COVID in the middle of an off-schedule coaching transition. The decision was made to slow play NIL when it started in 2021. This was probably Aranda's decision in collaboration with ADMR. There weren't a lot of "championship bones" in the 2021 class, either. We have only recent started to compete in the NIL space which has allowed us to utilize the transfer portal more effectively. The jury's still out on whether the recent changes will be effective. Fortunately, as a fan evaluating all of that is not my responsibility.

Rhule's title game appearance and Aranda's Big 12 championship show what can be done, but Rhule quit at a very inconvenient time, and we didn't know the world was about to shut down when Aranda was hired. I think if he had known it, ADMR would probably have tried to hire someone who could bring a ready-made staff and a chunk of recruits.

Robert Wilson said:

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Why are we still talking about Briles on here? In the 15 years prior to his coming to Baylor, we were abysmal. In the 8 years since he left, we are overall playing below .500 football. That's a quarter century of well below.500 football surrounding the Briles era. And we didn't have to fire him. That's why we are still talking about him.

We screwed up royally by letting the football program take the #metoo era heat from a much larger story of institutional failing. It was cowardice and a lack of judgment on the part of Baylor's leadership.

Briles was far from perfect, but he could have been saved, and it would have been worth it over the long run. In the end, we are now basically Texas Tech after they ran off Leach. We will struggle to ever find any consistent footing. Briles had us at the early stages of what would've been a long and elite run. It could've changed the trajectory of our entire athletics program. Instead, ATM, we are basically a one trick pony men's basketball school. Not the worst thing in the world. I mean I think pretty highly of Villanova. But we are in Texas, so...

---

Thank you for speaking the truth.

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Bottom line. Rhule and Aranda are both about .500 college HCs over a good several year sample. Rhule now in year 9 and Aranda in year 5 to be exact.

---

Difference is Rhule knows when to get out. When he got all the juice he is going to get. Dave, just stayed.

---

The difference is Matt Rhule took on three rebuilds and improved all three programs on his watch. Dave Aranda took a house with championship bones and burned it to the ground in four years.

Anyone comparing the head coaching careers of Matt Rhule and Dave Aranda doesn't know ball. There's a reason Matt Rhule keeps getting better jobs and Dave Aranda will be back calling defenses exclusively once he's inevitably fired.

---

Do not disagree on Rhule. He has a better sense of what is sustainable and what is not. Maybe THAT makes him a better coach.

You really think that BU had Champion Bones? I don't. We had the remains of a flash in the pan that Aranda MISTOOK as Champion Bones and he stayed when he should have gone to Stanford for big money. He would fit Stanford and can recruit Stanford (recruits itself). His MISREAD on the BU "Infrastructure" will be his downfall. BU does not have the pipelines to be any more than what it is. Down 3, compete 1 and win 1 per recycling cycle.

I agree he will end up a DC at a top program that has the talent to do what he wants. OR, the NFL where he can get as sophisticated as he wants. Those players are pros and can handle it.

---

We played for a Big 12 championship the year Rhule left, losing to Oklahoma in overtime, and watched the players Rhule left Aranda win one two years later.

I don't think we had championship bones. It was a fact.

We went from playing for two conference titles in three years and winning one to finishing 3-9 and praying for bowl eligibility two and three years later.

The problem in this equation is Aranda, not our program.

---

We think of bones differently. I think of bones as the infrastructure to win repeatedly over time. Not one goo roster that has a 3 or 4 year winning lifespan. OU, UT, or OSU have the bones in place to win repeatedly, sustainable winning.

Having a good roster because you hit on several good kids is not the same. That is not Championship, it is a stepping stone. Rhule correctly read the room. Aranda didn't.

BU has NEVER had the bones, infrastructure, pipeline, or whatever you want to call it. We have a few big years followed by a lot of mediocrity until we hit the Singeltary teams, RG3 teams, or the Rhule teams. But they are in no way the structure for consistent winning. A coach doesn't do that. You need an AD and Athletic Dept that is reaching out to the HS and handlers to get the talent. Briles was the closest we came to having what you describe and he even had to take kids no one else would touch.

Aranda is getting the good kids that want an education. He would be great at a Service Academy, Stanford, NU, Rice or Vandy.

bear2be2 said:

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Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job. Maybe he will get Nebraska back to a level of respectability. Don't see them competing for a conference championship though.

Crazy also that that year of multiple near misses is considered by some to be a new Baylor standard. Aranda's team 2 years later was better. Multiple Briles' teams would have mopped the floor with the 2019 team.

Aranda's 2021 team beat multiple ranked teams . . . some highly ranked, and they won convincingly. We have certainly fallen since then, but that was a great team.

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25.

---

Texas wasn't ranked. Matt Rhule hasn't defeated a ranked team since 2016 when he was at Temple, as a Twitter graphic I posted earlier in this thread indicates.

The luckiest win came at home against Tech that went to 2OT. Our center fumbled the snap and the game was over. Refs bailed us out.

Big12Bear said:

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Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25.

---

Texas wasn't ranked. Matt Rhule hasn't defeated a ranked team since 2016 when he was at Temple, as a Twitter graphic I posted earlier in this thread indicates.

The luckiest win came at home against Tech that went to 2OT. Our center fumbled the snap and the game was over. Refs bailed us out.

---

You may be right. The AP ranked Texas #25 at the end of the year, but at the time we played them, they may not have been ranked.

Chuckroast said:

---

Big12Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25.

---

Texas wasn't ranked. Matt Rhule hasn't defeated a ranked team since 2016 when he was at Temple, as a Twitter graphic I posted earlier in this thread indicates.

The luckiest win came at home against Tech that went to 2OT. Our center fumbled the snap and the game was over. Refs bailed us out.

---

You may be right. The AP ranked Texas #25 at the end of the year, but at the time we played them, they may not have been ranked.

---

That's correct - they finished the season #25.

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

jikespingleton said:

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Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

No, I am saying he wouldn't be back on the market unless he failed at Nebraska. I fully expect him to be successful there.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

No, I am saying he wouldn't be back on the market unless he failed at Nebraska. I fully expect him to be successful there.

---

Ok, feel free to dodge the question. Honestly though, the question wasn't directed at you. You made a very sensible post in this thread. I'm just trying to see if the pro Rhule people love him enough that they would take him back if we had the opportunity.

I'm still hoping against hope that Aranda can turn things around, but time is running out.

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

No, I am saying he wouldn't be back on the market unless he failed at Nebraska. I fully expect him to be successful there.

---

Ok, feel free to dodge the question. Honestly though, the question wasn't directed at you. You made a very sensible post in this thread. I'm just trying to see if the pro Rhule people love him enough that they would take him back if we had the opportunity.

I'm still hoping against hope that Aranda can turn things around, but time is running out.

---

I would

And I am not (and never was) a Rhule fan.

I have just never connected with the guy. (Northerner, mercenary, preacher kid thing, etc)

But I would hire him back in a heart beat

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

Redbrickbear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

---

Partial Qualifiers and pre-Prop 48 made Dr Tom what he was. Post -prop 48 Nebraska has been horrible.

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

I'll answer your question. Hell yes.

And I'll go a step further and say anyone who wouldn't take Rhule back at Baylor in a heartbeat is a terrible evaluator of head coaching talent.

PartyBear said:

---

I think post Briles we have been back at our historical form. We have generally been mediocre. The 97-08 period was actually the outlier as much as the Briles era but on different ends of the spectrum.

---

Man...that is sad but true