Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

No, I am saying he wouldn't be back on the market unless he failed at Nebraska. I fully expect him to be successful there.

---

Ok, feel free to dodge the question. Honestly though, the question wasn't directed at you. You made a very sensible post in this thread. I'm just trying to see if the pro Rhule people love him enough that they would take him back if we had the opportunity.

I'm still hoping against hope that Aranda can turn things around, but time is running out.

---

I would take Rhule back in one second.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

---

Partial Qualifiers and pre-Prop 48 made Dr Tom what he was. Post -prop 48 Nebraska has been horrible.

---

Tom Osbourne is the biggest scumbag and hypocrite in coaching. That guy is a total jacka$$. Typical of the media bull****, he was 1,000x worse than Briles but because he was from a large program.

Me too.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

I'm saying if we had an opening right now. Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

No, I am saying he wouldn't be back on the market unless he failed at Nebraska. I fully expect him to be successful there.

---

Ok, feel free to dodge the question. Honestly though, the question wasn't directed at you. You made a very sensible post in this thread. I'm just trying to see if the pro Rhule people love him enough that they would take him back if we had the opportunity.

I'm still hoping against hope that Aranda can turn things around, but time is running out.

---

I would take Rhule back in one second.

---

I firmly believe his "style" (personality, recruiting, coaching) works really well at a place like Baylor.

I understand his desire to go to the NFL....but if he was gonna come back to college ball then a place like Baylor is really the best fit for him.

He could have had lots of sustained success in Waco.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

---

Partial Qualifiers and pre-Prop 48 made Dr Tom what he was. Post -prop 48 Nebraska has been horrible.

---

Tom Osbourne is the biggest scumbag and hypocrite in coaching. That guy is a total jacka$$. Typical of the media bull****, he was 1,000x worse than Briles but because he was from a large program.

---

Not to mention Phil Fulmer had a fake award named after him in the SEC for all the criminals he had playing for him.

https://edsbs.fandom.com/wiki/Fulmer_Cup

Barry Switzer at OU was a legendarily bad guy who recruited LOTS of bad dudes.

Some how Baylor and our coach took the heat for something that was common place at other programs.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

---

Partial Qualifiers and pre-Prop 48 made Dr Tom what he was. Post -prop 48 Nebraska has been horrible.

---

Tom Osbourne is the biggest scumbag and hypocrite in coaching. That guy is a total jacka$$. Typical of the media bull****, he was 1,000x worse than Briles but because he was from a large program.

---

And Nebraska probably knows how to handle itself far better than we did.

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

I'll admit I became spoiled by our 2010 - 2015 success. Toward the end of Briles tenure, we were for the most part dominating our own conference and even gaining momentum, especially in recruiting. We had a formula on offense that had put us squarely on the national radar. And we played with confidence and swagger.

My first opportunity to see Rhule's first team was the Duke road game which was his 3rd game after we had already lost to Liberty. I was dumfounded at how flat the team was on the sidelines and how we played with no emotion or heart. That team was not devoid of talent. I was also crushed that we had abandoned all semblance of our former identity. Our offense had absolutely no imagination.

After year 2 and even year 3, it just seemed that we would not be a conference champion caliber team on a consistent basis under Rhule. His recruiting was nothing special, and he was not innovative to the degree Baylor needs to be. If we had Rhule now, I believe we would be settling for a team that goes to some bowls and maybe has a breakout season with only 3 losses every few years in a conference full of middling to decent teams.

I may be asking for a lot, but I want to hire a young coach or even a coordinator that turns into the next Josh Heupel. I was hoping Aranda would be that guy, especially after his second year when we had a really great team. If Aranda doesn't pan out, I would prefer to keep swinging for the fences.

Rhule could recruit or at least his staff could. He admittedly wasn't a fan of being a road warrior but he brought in some dudes. His staff unearthed no star guys and offered them before they became 4* guys. Terrel Bernard, Tyquan Thornton, Tresten Ebner, Abram Smith, Connor Galvin, Brayvion Roy, Kalon Barnes, JT Woods, etc. All solid to great collegiate players with many being drafted or making a roster. His method of track times seemingly worked and found the team some diamonds in the rough.

Baylor will always struggle to recruit on par with Texas. We need to find some diamonds in the rough and Rhule landed 4* guys like Thornton, Galvin, and Roy and supplemented with diamond finds like Bernard.

I did not find the offense to have much of an identity but Phil Snow's defense in 2019 was salty.

boykin_spaniel said:

---

Rhule could recruit or at least his staff could. He admittedly wasn't a fan of being a road warrior but he brought in some dudes. His staff unearthed no star guys and offered them before they became 4* guys. Terrel Bernard, Tyquan Thornton, Tresten Ebner, Abram Smith, Connor Galvin, Brayvion Roy, Kalon Barnes, JT Woods, etc. All solid to great collegiate players with many being drafted or making a roster. His method of track times seemingly worked and found the team some diamonds in the rough.

Baylor will always struggle to recruit on par with Texas. We need to find some diamonds in the rough and Rhule landed 4* guys like Thornton, Galvin, and Roy and supplemented with diamond finds like Bernard.

I did not find the offense to have much of an identity but Phil Snow's defense in 2019 was salty.

---

Rhule identified and developed talent. He new exactly the body type and measurables he wanted for every position and he proved at both Temple and Baylor that he could get those guys on campus and turn them into studs, regardless of what they were ranked on signing day.

That's the kind of coach we need again. A guy with a proven system -- or process, for the haters -- that knows the type of players he can win with and how to develop them.

Fair point. And I sincerely mean that. Fair enough.

Pondering this, I pulled together some stats. Not sure exactly what to do with them (other than find another hobby), but they are interesting.

In 32 years of football in the post-Teaff era, Baylor is 170-206 (about a 45% winning percentage).

Briles was 65-37.

Other than Briles, we are 105-169 (about a 38% winning percentage). That is some extremely atrocious football across four decades.

The only other coaches who finished above .500 each did it by 1 game. Chuck Reedy (23-22 playing mostly SWC immediately post-Teaff) and Jim Grobe (7-6 in the Briles hangover season).

Roberts, Steele, Morriss, Rhule, and Aranda all had/have losing records. Of those 5, I think Rhule (who had shown he could run a program) was by far the most successful. Probably would've gone positive if he'd have stayed here (which he plainly had no desire to do).

Briles had shown he could be an HC in the past. So had Grobe. So had Rhule. GuyMo had 2 years at Kentucky in which he went 2-9 and 7-5 (negligible track record).

The career assistants were Roberts, Steele, and Aranda. I'd be inclined to throw GuyMo in with them.

Not a huge sample size, but I think that Baylor is a difficult place to be a head coach. I think it's a quite difficult place to learn to be a head coach. Probably moreso than many other places, I think Baylor benefits from hiring someone who has shown he knows how to run a program.

I'd be strongly inclined to look at HCs at downstream places versus hot shot coordinators. JMO.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Fair point. And I sincerely mean that. Fair enough.

Pondering this, I pulled together some stats. Not sure exactly what to do with them (other than find another hobby), but they are interesting.

In 32 years of football in the post-Teaff era, Baylor is 170-206 (about a 45% winning percentage).

Briles was 65-37.

Other than Briles, we are 105-169 (about a 38% winning percentage). That is some extremely atrocious football across four decades.

The only other coaches who finished above .500 each did it by 1 game. Chuck Reedy (23-22 playing mostly SWC immediately post-Teaff) and Jim Grobe (7-6 in the Briles hangover season).

Roberts, Steele, Morriss, Rhule, and Aranda all had/have losing records. Of those 5, I think Rhule (who had shown he could run a program) was by far the most successful. Probably would've gone positive if he'd have stayed here (which he plainly had no desire to do).

Briles had shown he could be an HC in the past. So had Grobe. So had Rhule. GuyMo had 2 years at Kentucky in which he went 2-9 and 7-5 (negligible track record).

The career assistants were Roberts, Steele, and Aranda. I'd be inclined to throw GuyMo in with them.

Not a huge sample size, but I think that Baylor is a difficult place to be a head coach. I think it's a quite difficult place to learn to be a head coach. Probably moreso than many other places, I think Baylor benefits from hiring someone who has shown he knows how to run a program.

I'd be strongly inclined to look at HCs at downstream places versus hot shot coordinators. JMO.

---

The one big caveat to your penultimate paragraph is that until Morriss, we didn't come close to committing the resources and energy necessary to competing at a high level on the football field. That was even true of the Teaff era, which makes what he did in Waco all the more impressive.

Since we started investing in our program, each of our last three coaches have either played for or won a conference championship and led teams to at least one New Year's bowl, which would likely put us in the playoff in the modern era.

I don't think Baylor is a terribly difficult place to coach. You can win at a reasonably high level without the ridiculous expectations you would find at other schools with our ceilings. You can't contend for national titles because you can't attract that level of talent to Waco, but you can do pretty much anything else you want at Baylor. You just have to be able to identify and develop the high three- and low four-star talent we have at our disposal.

Do you think Aranda would have pushed a "person over player" mantra at LSU? Gotten behind early on NL?

Robert Wilson said:

---

Do you think Aranda would have pushed a "person over player" mantra at LSU? Gotten behind early on NL?

---

He would have never been hired as a head coach by LSU. But no, probably not.

bear2be2 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Do you think Aranda would have pushed a "person over player" mantra at LSU? Gotten behind early on NL?

---

He would have never been hired as a head coach by LSU. But no, probably not.

---

Also, I'm not saying people cannot win here. Plainly they can. It has been illustrated. I just think we are better off with somebody who has proven they have the skill set to run an entire program.

Robert Wilson said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Do you think Aranda would have pushed a "person over player" mantra at LSU? Gotten behind early on NL?

---

He would have never been hired as a head coach by LSU. But no, probably not.

---

Also, I'm not saying people cannot win here. Plainly they can. It has been illustrated. I just think we are better off with somebody who has proven they have the skill set to run an entire program.

---

I'm 100 percent with you.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

Relax - it's an honest question. Assuming you are ready to move on from Aranda or think we could improve upon him, would you take Rhule? If not, then why are you giving me a hard time? I've given you the reasons I'd prefer someone else. You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

Rhule would probably need to be fired for failing a second time to be available. Would you hire someone who had failed at his last two stops?

---

Are you saying he has failed at Nebraska already?

---

I firmly believe that Nebraska is a "dead" program.

It might get back to 7-8 wins a year in the Big 10 but it will never be the old Nebraska of national title contender level.

It's a fly over state of 2 million people in an age of football when everyone can pay players and has great facilities.

Not to mention college kids today were not even born when Nebraska last played for a title

No one is going to bring Big Corn back to the glory years

---

Partial Qualifiers and pre-Prop 48 made Dr Tom what he was. Post -prop 48 Nebraska has been horrible.

---

Tom Osbourne is the biggest scumbag and hypocrite in coaching. That guy is a total jacka$$. Typical of the media bull****, he was 1,000x worse than Briles but because he was from a large program

---

Some how Baylor and our coach took the heat for something that was common place at other programs.

---

It's not a some how. The BOI deliberately trashed the program to make themselves look better.

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

What is the point of this exercise?

---

You seem to be of the belief that he's a program builder.

---

You lost me at apologize.

Apologize for what, exactly? Why is that a component of your question?

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives. It is the current Baylor way.

Look at the numbers, not too different. Some would say Aranda is dealing with worse times after Briles, Rhule jumping and NIL. Aranda is not too far off Teaff and much better than the typical BU hire.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives. It is the current Baylor way.

Look at the numbers, not too different. Some would say Aranda is dealing with worse times after Briles, Rhule jumping and NIL. Aranda is not too far off Teaff and much better than the typical BU hire.

---

What each coach inherited is no small detail. Like Briles, Teaff was tasked with cleaning up a giant mess. It was a true rebuilding job.

Outside of the COVID challenges that everyone faced in 2020, Aranda stepped into a good situation after Rhule, who did all the heavy lifting for him. Aranda had a full and talented roster, and didn't have to deal with constant comparisons to Briles or serve as a surrogate for a fan base's ire with Baylor's administration at the time. He also didn't have to answer any questions about a rape scandal that was behind us by that point.

Aranda gets credit for the 2021 season, but from an on-field perspective, that's pretty much the only positive in his tenure to date. He doesn't have another winning season besides that one despite taking over a healthier situation than any Baylor coach in the modern era.

So the fact that his record matches Teaff's through four-plus years is a black mark, not a feather.

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives. It is the current Baylor way.

Look at the numbers, not too different. Some would say Aranda is dealing with worse times after Briles, Rhule jumping and NIL. Aranda is not too far off Teaff and much better than the typical BU hire.

---

What each coach inherited is no small detail. Like Briles, Teaff was tasked with cleaning up a giant mess. It was a true rebuilding job.

Outside of the COVID challenges that everyone faced in 2020, Aranda stepped into a good situation after Rhule, who did all the heavy lifting for him. Aranda had a full and talented roster, and didn't have to deal with constant comparisons to Briles or serve as a surrogate for a fan base's ire with Baylor's administration at the time. He also didn't have to answer any questions about a rape scandal that was behind us by that point.

Aranda gets credit for the 2021 season, but from an on-field perspective, that's pretty much the only positive in his tenure to date. He doesn't have another winning season besides that one despite taking over a healthier situation than any Baylor coach in the modern era.

So the fact that his record matches Teaff's through four-plus years is a black mark, not a feather.

---

Really? When Rhule.left it was a good situation? Why did Rhule leave? He e had one roster and both him and Aranda cashed, but the infrastructure for long term success was not and is not here. Rhule bailed. Aranda stuck it out and is actually trying to fix it. Just like Teaff did, Grant tried to fix it. Aranda for his troubles is a pyriah.

I do agree that maybe he would be better in a different role. I would like to see him as AD and get someone better with game decisions. But BU needs an Aranda type. Someone willing to stay and fix it. Someone consistent with what BU is supposed to be.

Aranda got handed a pretty good ship. Rhule left a pretty well stocked cupboard, which showed in 2021. Ika and Estrada helped but Aranda struggled after to bring in and develop dudes.

I do agree that he's a better hire than many past hires like Roberts, Steele, and GuyMo. Heck, on paper he was a better hire than Teaff. Teaff was coaching small school ball and on no one's radar. Turned out he was a good coach and showed winning a conference title is possible at BU. Aranda was considered pretty much an A higher by every media outlet. Plenty of fans now bemoaning the hire were perfectly content.

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives. It is the current Baylor way.

Look at the numbers, not too different. Some would say Aranda is dealing with worse times after Briles, Rhule jumping and NIL. Aranda is not too far off Teaff and much better than the typical BU hire.

---

What each coach inherited is no small detail. Like Briles, Teaff was tasked with cleaning up a giant mess. It was a true rebuilding job.

Outside of the COVID challenges that everyone faced in 2020, Aranda stepped into a good situation after Rhule, who did all the heavy lifting for him. Aranda had a full and talented roster, and didn't have to deal with constant comparisons to Briles or serve as a surrogate for a fan base's ire with Baylor's administration at the time. He also didn't have to answer any questions about a rape scandal that was behind us by that point.

Aranda gets credit for the 2021 season, but from an on-field perspective, that's pretty much the only positive in his tenure to date. He doesn't have another winning season besides that one despite taking over a healthier situation than any Baylor coach in the modern era.

So the fact that his record matches Teaff's through four-plus years is a black mark, not a feather.

---

In fairness, not everyone faced the same challenges in COVID that Aranda did.

FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives. It is the current Baylor way.

Look at the numbers, not too different. Some would say Aranda is dealing with worse times after Briles, Rhule jumping and NIL. Aranda is not too far off Teaff and much better than the typical BU hire.

---

What each coach inherited is no small detail. Like Briles, Teaff was tasked with cleaning up a giant mess. It was a true rebuilding job.

Outside of the COVID challenges that everyone faced in 2020, Aranda stepped into a good situation after Rhule, who did all the heavy lifting for him. Aranda had a full and talented roster, and didn't have to deal with constant comparisons to Briles or serve as a surrogate for a fan base's ire with Baylor's administration at the time. He also didn't have to answer any questions about a rape scandal that was behind us by that point.

Aranda gets credit for the 2021 season, but from an on-field perspective, that's pretty much the only positive in his tenure to date. He doesn't have another winning season besides that one despite taking over a healthier situation than any Baylor coach in the modern era.

So the fact that his record matches Teaff's through four-plus years is a black mark, not a feather.

---

Really? When Rhule.left it was a good situation? Why did Rhule leave? He e had one roster and both him and Aranda cashed, but the infrastructure for long term success was not and is not here. Rhule bailed. Aranda stuck it out and is actually trying to fix it. Just like Teaff did, Grant tried to fix it. Aranda for his troubles is a pyriah.

I do agree that maybe he would be better in a different role. I would like to see him as AD and get someone better with game decisions. But BU needs an Aranda type. Someone willing to stay and fix it. Someone consistent with what BU is supposed to be.

---

Rhule left because he wanted to coach in the NFL and Carolina offered him a **** ton of money to do it. It had nothing at all to do with Baylor.

Phil Snow said as much in the interview posted here recently.

boykin_spaniel said:

---

Aranda got handed a pretty good ship. Rhule left a pretty well stocked cupboard, which showed in 2021. Ika and Estrada helped but Aranda struggled after to bring in and develop dudes.

I do agree that he's a better hire than many past hires like Roberts, Steele, and GuyMo. Heck, on paper he was a better hire than Teaff. Teaff was coaching small school ball and on no one's radar. Turned out he was a good coach and showed winning a conference title is possible at BU. Aranda was considered pretty much an A higher by every media outlet. Plenty of fans now bemoaning the hire were perfectly content.

---

I was bemoaning the hire then, but I was one of few.

Yeah I thinkk you and I were hoping for Joey but even with Dave's gigantic learning curve I'm not sure Joey would have been any better looking back.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives.

---

Yeah, that's what I said. Are you a pre-teen girl?

After 3 years, Aranda had 2 bowl appearances, one conference championship, and a sugar bowl victory and a #5 end of season ranking. The COVID year was the only non-bowl season, but a year like that shouldn't really be given much scrutiny anyway. That's a good start for a new head coach. It was the bad 4th season that has many giving up.

In year 5, we don't have a bad loss. A heartbreaking loss on the road to Colorado where we looked to be the better team is fresh on our minds. Aranda can't make the icing field goal or keep our RB from fumbling while crossing the goal line in OT. Without either, we're potentially 3-1 right now with a competitive team.

On the plus side, our recruiting has been improving and we seem to be in the NIL game now. I'm hoping this year's team is good enough to get into the bowl picture so that we don't lose all momentum.

I'm forever thankful to Aranda for the magical 2021 season which isn't too long ago and hope he can turn things around.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Yeah I thinkk you and I were hoping for Joey but even with Dave's gigantic learning curve I'm not sure Joey would have been any better looking back.

---

Joey's biggest failing at Tech IMO is continuing that program's unhealthy codependent relationship with the Air Raid offense. He's trying to play complementary football with a scheme that undermines that goal. If he'd been hired at Baylor, there would have been no such pressure to do that, and he likely would have just kept most of the staff, schemes and culture from the Rhule era.

But even still, McGuire has had more winning campaigns and as many bowl appearances in two seasons than/as Aranda has had in four. And even this year, which looked like it was going to be a disaster early for Tech will likely end up being a standard bowl season in Lubbock.

I still think we would have been better off trying to hold the Rhule staff together and continue that program culture than hiring someone who had never been a head coach at any level.

The 2021 season was awesome, but it's come at a really steep cost. And I think Joey could have won big with that roster too.

I'm sorry but losing on a Hail Mary is a bad loss anyway you slice it.

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Rhule had one good season at Baylor and is remembered for that Sugar Bowl run, but was that a truly great team?

We beat Rice in a one score game out of conference. We won many more one score games against Mountain West type of competition in our conference. No team was ranked except for Texas at #25. I also seem to recall that we had the good fortune of playing against backup QBs in a couple of games.

Oklahoma (who we lost to twice) was ostensibly a good team although they lost by 35 points to LSU in the playoff semis.

We got the benefit of having a great record coming out of a weak conference. We would have been middle of the pack in a better conference. We were not a great team, but some people act like losing Rhule was what killed our program and not losing Briles.

---

That defense was a top-15 unit by virtually any measure. And the offense, which finished 27th nationally in scoring, was more functional than any Briles defense but the 2013 unit.

Complementary football with elite defense is the most reliable path there is to college football success. You'll be in virtually every game you play that way.

---

Not arguing the metrics . . . but they were achieved against ho hum competition that year.

---

Crazy how Rhule parlayed the 2019 year with multiple near misses into a NFL job and then the Nebraska job.

---

It's only crazy to someone that is either butthurt about Rhule leaving us or otherwise dislikes him.

---

I'm certainly not upset that he left. Question for you: if Rhule apologized for leaving and said Baylor is where he wanted to spend the rest of his career, would you want him hired?

---

Interesting thought exercise. I would take him. He would make us better than we are now. He didn't want to be here before. He'd probably squirrel out on us again in 3-4 years, but we'd be better.

Plus, after canning Briles, we put ourselves on a likely coaching treadmill anyway. Absent finding another Teaff (unlikely but not impossible), we will have a coach a few years. He'll leave because he wins and moves on or because he's fired.

---

Check the records, Aranda and Teaff are uncanny how close their on field results are after 5 years.

---

They did not enter similar situations.

---

Yeah, Sorry forgot Dave can't have any positives.

---

Yeah, that's what I said. Are you a pre-teen girl?

---

Nah, just sick of listening to the one sided whining. Pre-teen girls would be less whiny.

Joey still would've been learning on the job. He'd have been a first time FBS head coach. I don't see Tech winning more than 6-8 games this year including a bowl victory. OT with ACU, flummoxed by Wazzu, and a conference win against a one dimensional Arizona State team will likely finish near the bottom of the conference. No way to know he'd be doing better than Aranda.

Yes, hence the plenty, and not the "all". You've been consistent and your argument of proven coaches at a lower level having better success at Baylor is statistically accurate. On paper Rhule and Aranda might be the best coaching hires in school history. Obviously paper doesn't matter, but it does show we put more resources into the program.