Every team plays patsies dude!! Have you looked at these B12 schedules in the OOC?
You all act like the SEC is the only one playing ooc patsies which is utterly hilarious

IowaBear said:

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I follow ISU closer than anyone here and I can guarantee Ole Miss beats them handily. Even my die hard ISU friends would agree. KSU was lucky to get by Tulane. Okie St needed a miracle to beat Arky. Utah without Cam Rising is hott garbage

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This is why we spar so much. You can't "guarantee" that. And your predictions (like everyone else's) are frequently wrong -- sometimes by a lot.

The absolute declarations are what bother me. And then you dismiss the many times Ole Miss or Missouri got a chance to play good teams out of conference and **** the bed.

At some point, what happens on the field has to matter. That it doesn't in college football for certain teams and conferences is the worst aspect of the sport IMO.

bear2be2 said:

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jikespingleton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Jorkel said:

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IowaBear said:

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Customary 3 blowout loses as Ole Miss went 11-2 last year…

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Any team in the big 12 who goes 11-2 any given year had an incredible year

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I agree. Ole Miss has literally had one such year in over five decades. That's why I'm loathe to put them in any sentence that includes the SEC's actual powers.

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This reads like a misunderstanding of what posters are saying in this thread. Ole Miss/Missouri are probably not within 10 points of Georgia/Texas/Alabama, and the difference here is that posters are saying Oklahoma State/Kansas State, and utah are probably not within 10 points of Ole Miss/Missouri. If it's easier to visualize, imagine the top of the Big 12 is tier 3 overall and not tier 2.

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This is what I'm talking about. SEC teams never have to prove anything on the field. People just talk out of our asses about their strength constantly.

Every other team in every other conference has a burden of proof on them that SEC also-rans don't. I'm fine giving Georgia and Alabama that respect/benefit of the doubt. They've earned it. Literally no one else in that league has.

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It's a hill that I've died on many times over the years.

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It's why we have to pretend that A&M is a good team every season until that zeppelin comes crashing back to earth in a fiery heap. It's exhausting.

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aggy has never been anything but a source of laughter for me..

What happens on the field has to matter yet… while ignoring the clear and obvious talent discrepancies between ISU and Ole Miss. you're sitting here crapping on Ole Miss trying to convince everyone they aren't worth a crao because 50 years ago they were terrible. Your examples are Isu ksu Utah and Okie St 2 of which historically are absolutely garbage. There's zero way you actually believe any of those 4 would beat Ole Miss if they played tomm. Especially with Utah having no Rising. You e been slow to credit ISU now all the sudden they can hang with Ole Miss? Give me a break. I'm no more wrong with any of my takes than you are

jikespingleton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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jikespingleton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Jorkel said:

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IowaBear said:

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Customary 3 blowout loses as Ole Miss went 11-2 last year…

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Any team in the big 12 who goes 11-2 any given year had an incredible year

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I agree. Ole Miss has literally had one such year in over five decades. That's why I'm loathe to put them in any sentence that includes the SEC's actual powers.

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This reads like a misunderstanding of what posters are saying in this thread. Ole Miss/Missouri are probably not within 10 points of Georgia/Texas/Alabama, and the difference here is that posters are saying Oklahoma State/Kansas State, and utah are probably not within 10 points of Ole Miss/Missouri. If it's easier to visualize, imagine the top of the Big 12 is tier 3 overall and not tier 2.

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This is what I'm talking about. SEC teams never have to prove anything on the field. People just talk out of our asses about their strength constantly.

Every other team in every other conference has a burden of proof on them that SEC also-rans don't. I'm fine giving Georgia and Alabama that respect/benefit of the doubt. They've earned it. Literally no one else in that league has.

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It's a hill that I've died on many times over the years.

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It's why we have to pretend that A&M is a good team every season until that zeppelin comes crashing back to earth in a fiery heap. It's exhausting.

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For me aggy is different. I just laugh at them..

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It was fine when that was just an Aggie tradition. But that same diagram can now be used to describe the way they're viewed and perceived nationally as well for some reason.

IowaBear said:

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What happens on the field has to matter yet… while ignoring the clear and obvious talent discrepancies between ISU and Ole Miss.

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I've seen Ole Miss get its ass absolutely handed to it by TCU, Baylor and Tech -- two of those in the Lane Kiffin era. It didn't have a clear talent advantage in any of those games.

Ole Miss isn't Alabama. They don't deserve the same level of respect.

IowaBear said:

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I follow ISU closer than anyone here and I can guarantee Ole Miss beats them handily. Even my die hard ISU friends would agree. KSU was lucky to get by Tulane. Okie St needed a miracle to beat Arky. Utah without Cam Rising is hott garbage

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All of this. For this season and for today (9/15), based on what's been seen so far it would probably look something like this between SEC/Big 12 (no order in Tiers):

Tier 1
Texas
Georgia
Alabama

Tier 2
Tennessee
Ole Miss
Missouri

Tier 3
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
South Carolina
LSU
Arkansas
Utah (w/Rising)
Oklahoma State
Kansas State
Iowa State

Tier 4 and on
Who cares?

In the last 20 years the SEC has ruled. Alabama 6, LSU 3, Georgia 2,Florida 2 and Auburn 1 national titles. End of discussion.

"Bowl games are meaningless" words that have come straight from your mouth. Yet when it's convenient you'll use bowl games as bullet point

IowaBear said:

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Every team plays patsies dude!!

You all act like the SEC is the only one playing ooc patsies which is utterly hilarious

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Straw man argument.

I've never stated that the sec is the only conference who plays patsies.

I'm asking why the best conference plays so many of them and so many more than the other conferences. Why is that the case?

Aberzombie1892 said:

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IowaBear said:

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I follow ISU closer than anyone here and I can guarantee Ole Miss beats them handily. Even my die hard ISU friends would agree. KSU was lucky to get by Tulane. Okie St needed a miracle to beat Arky. Utah without Cam Rising is hott garbage

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All of this. For this season and for today (9/15), based on what's been seen so far it would probably look something like this between SEC/Big 10 (no order in Tiers):

Tier 1
Texas
Georgia
Alabama

Tier 2
Tennessee
Ole Miss
Missouri

Tier 3
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
South Carolina
LSU
Arkansas
Utah (w/Rising)
Oklahoma State
Kansas State
Iowa State

Tier 4 and on
Who cares?

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Now plug in big 12 teams on that list

IowaBear said:

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"Bowl games are meaningless" words that have come straight from your mouth. Yet when it's convenient you'll use bowl games as bullet point

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We can only judge teams based on the data points available. And as I've already pointed out, nonconference scheduling in this sport is an absolute joke, so there aren't nearly enough comparison points through those games.

I don't personally care about bowl games because I think the whole bowl system is stupid. But any team that lines up to play at any time deserves to be judged for the product it puts on the field.

Ole Miss has never been anything special talent-wise.

We've seen what a talent discrepancy looks like. Michigan State was more talented than us up front by a long shot in in 2014 (we still should have won, but they completely shut down our run game). Georgia was more talented than us in 2019 by a long shot (we still made a decent game of it, but we didn't stack up roster-wise). Ole Miss was literally incapable of blocking us on defense in 2021.

And the same thing happens almost every time they play Alabama -- and Georgia in the Kirby Smart era.

That program -- and Missouri, as well -- simply is not what you're trying to sell it as. It has never been.

Maybe you should ask Greg Sankey that question. Does it really matter? When it comes time for the SEC big boys to play the other conferences top dawgs they typically dominate.

bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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I follow ISU closer than anyone here and I can guarantee Ole Miss beats them handily. Even my die hard ISU friends would agree. KSU was lucky to get by Tulane. Okie St needed a miracle to beat Arky. Utah without Cam Rising is hott garbage

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This is why we spar so much.

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You guys spar so much because he has the sports acuity of a 6th grader

Where was I trying to sell Ole Miss or Mizzou was on the level of GA or Bama? Quit making **** up. What I am selling is those 2 win the B12 rather easily this year.
And yes I GUARANTEE Ole Miss would stomp my Clones.

Question my sports knowledge while trying to convince people the SEC isn't the top conference… good one

IowaBear said:

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Where was I trying to sell Ole Miss or Mizzou was on the level of GA or Bama? Quit making **** up. What I am selling is those 2 win the B12 rather easily this year.
And yes I GUARANTEE Ole Miss would stomp my Clones.

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You've said Ole Miss and Missouri would whip every team in the Big 12, which implies they've reached a status as a program that neither has ever achieved.

They're good teams, but there's nothing particularly special about either. And we'll get to see that firsthand on the rare occasions they play a real elite program.

You're using them losing to Bama and GA as a data point as to why they wouldn't wreck the B12 this year makes zero sense. Bama and GA are the standard across CFB. They wouldn't see a single team in the B12 in the same stratosphere as those 2. The big 12 is loaded with hott garbage.

I think it's funny that TCU won 13 games (two more than Ole Miss has ever won) and reached the national title game in 2022, and we still have people here who would say that wasn't really a good team.

And now we have Ole Miss and Missouri, who have four 10-win seasons between them in the last decade, and we're supposed to bow down and kiss the ring because SEC! SEC!

If you want an example of how and why college football is broken, that's it in a nutshell. We have people who are wrong literally all the time making guarantees about who would beat who in games that should be but are never played. And the ones that aren't played don't have any impact whatsoever on national perception.

IowaBear said:

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Question my sports knowledge while trying to convince people the SEC isn't the top conference… good one

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That's another straw man argument. I never said the sec wasn't the top conference.

Who's the best conference in America? In your opinion ?

No body ask you to kiss Mizzou or Ole Miss on the ass. Quite the contrary you advised we can't respect them as programs. Btw how did TCU fare in that title game vs GA?

And just for the record, I leave open the possibility that I'm wrong about Ole Miss and Missouri. There's a chance they are as good as you guys think they are. But those two programs are going to have to prove that on the field against the meat of their schedule before I'm going to buy into the hype.

It should be that way for all teams. Outside of a handful of historic pro sports franchises, it is in every sport but college football.

bear2be2 said:

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I think it's funny that TCU won 13 games (two more than Ole Miss has ever won) and reached the national title game in 2022, and we still have people here who would say that wasn't really a good team.

And now we have Ole Miss and Missouri, who have four 10-win seasons between them in the last decade, and we're supposed to bow down and kiss the ring because SEC! SEC!

If you want an example of how and why college football is broken, that's it in a nutshell. We have people who are wrong literally all the time making guarantees about who would beat who in games that should be but are never played. And the ones that aren't played don't have any impact whatsoever on national perception.

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This is conflating topics. Georgia wasn't the only team from the SEC that would have blown out TCU that year despite TCU making the national title game, and everyone openly acknowledges this.

IowaBear said:

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No body ask you to kiss Mizzou or Ole Miss on the ass. Quite the contrary you advised we can't respect them as programs. Btw how did TCU fare in that title game vs GA?

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Better than Michigan.

If I'm wrong all the time please explain me predicting UNLV over KU? Or that Finn was terrible (told everyone that in May) or that Nebby would smoke CO weeks before they played. Please explain all these things that I'm "always wrong about"

Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I think it's funny that TCU won 13 games (two more than Ole Miss has ever won) and reached the national title game in 2022, and we still have people here who would say that wasn't really a good team.

And now we have Ole Miss and Missouri, who have four 10-win seasons between them in the last decade, and we're supposed to bow down and kiss the ring because SEC! SEC!

If you want an example of how and why college football is broken, that's it in a nutshell. We have people who are wrong literally all the time making guarantees about who would beat who in games that should be but are never played. And the ones that aren't played don't have any impact whatsoever on national perception.

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This is conflating topics. Georgia wasn't the only team from the SEC that would have blown out TCU that year despite TCU making the national title game, and everyone openly acknowledges this.

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The same people who make this claim told me Michigan would blow out TCU. Repeatedly for weeks. I would bet you were one of them.

As it turns out, when teams actually play on the field, some guarantees are worth jack *****

Yeah because you're NEVER wrong….

IowaBear said:

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Yeah because you're NEVER wrong….

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Like everyone else, I'm frequently wrong. But unlike you, I rarely speak in absolutes and try to abstain from hyperbole I'll regret later.

Speaking of TCU - the post season setup is just whack. TCU shouldn't have been invited.

KSU won the Big 12 Championship game - KSU should have gone to the invitationals that year.

I have zero regret. When I'm wrong I openly come on here and eat crow.

bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I think it's funny that TCU won 13 games (two more than Ole Miss has ever won) and reached the national title game in 2022, and we still have people here who would say that wasn't really a good team.

And now we have Ole Miss and Missouri, who have four 10-win seasons between them in the last decade, and we're supposed to bow down and kiss the ring because SEC! SEC!

If you want an example of how and why college football is broken, that's it in a nutshell. We have people who are wrong literally all the time making guarantees about who would beat who in games that should be but are never played. And the ones that aren't played don't have any impact whatsoever on national perception.

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This is conflating topics. Georgia wasn't the only team from the SEC that would have blown out TCU that year despite TCU making the national title game, and everyone openly acknowledges this.

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The same people who make this claim told me Michigan would blow out TCU. Repeatedly for weeks. I would bet you were one of them.

As it turns out, when teams actually play on the field, some guarantees are worth jack *****

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Alabama would've massacred TCU the same way they massacred the team that beat TCU for the Big 12 title that season. No one seriously believes otherwise and that's okay because they're right.

IowaBear said:

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I have zero regret. When I'm wrong I openly come on here and eat crow.

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Fair enough, but your constant hyperbole and frequent fatalism has colored the way others read and interact with your posts.

Believe it or not, I've come to appreciate our banter here and respect you as a poster, in general. I think you're more knowledgeable than you often get credit for being. But I've learned that much of what you say on this and the men's basketball board has to be taken with a grain of salt because it's frequently driven by emotion.

There's nothing wrong with that. This is a message board. But we're different in that way. I don't feel any need to make bold predictions or definitive judgments on limited sample sizes. I'm fine waiting to see if my thoughts on a player or team turn out to be true and changing my opinion when they're not.

We'll see how this discussion plays out over the course of the season. And we'll likely have plenty of other things to argue about in the meantime.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I think it's funny that TCU won 13 games (two more than Ole Miss has ever won) and reached the national title game in 2022, and we still have people here who would say that wasn't really a good team.

And now we have Ole Miss and Missouri, who have four 10-win seasons between them in the last decade, and we're supposed to bow down and kiss the ring because SEC! SEC!

If you want an example of how and why college football is broken, that's it in a nutshell. We have people who are wrong literally all the time making guarantees about who would beat who in games that should be but are never played. And the ones that aren't played don't have any impact whatsoever on national perception.

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This is conflating topics. Georgia wasn't the only team from the SEC that would have blown out TCU that year despite TCU making the national title game, and everyone openly acknowledges this.

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The same people who make this claim told me Michigan would blow out TCU. Repeatedly for weeks. I would bet you were one of them.

As it turns out, when teams actually play on the field, some guarantees are worth jack *****

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Alabama would've massacred TCU the same way they massacred the team that beat TCU for the Big 12 title that season. No one seriously believes otherwise and that's okay because they're right.

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The best thing about an expanded playoff is we no longer have to take opinions about who would massacre who based on imaginary games and limited relevant data seriously.

I don't know what some college football talking heads are going to do now that things will actually be decided on the field.

Solid post! I enjoy our banter. IMO this is what message boards are for. Differing opinions are what makes these boards fun for me. Feel like it would be boring if we all agreed 24/7.
I've always thought you were knowledgeable poster across the sports landscape as our a bunch of other posters on here.