Kiss of death. Why them **** the bed this weekend against us

To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

Bandito said:

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Not saying he's the next Art Briles or even Mike Leech, but there's no denying had Mack chose Joey over Dave we would not be the current dumpster fire that we are. He took a bad program and made them a little better. Dave took a program near the top and drove them to the bottom. We get another head to head match up to prove the point on Saturday. This one's on Mack.

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They are 1-1 head to head. So, if BU wins Saturday Aranda will have beaten Joey 2 of 3. Does that validate Dave is better?

They are both bad to mediocre coaches. But I guess in the land of the blind...

Joeys incredibly overhyped. But at least he's able to get Tech bowling…. Something Dave can't seem to do even with incredibly weak schedules

FLBear5630 said:

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Bandito said:

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Not saying he's the next Art Briles or even Mike Leech, but there's no denying had Mack chose Joey over Dave we would not be the current dumpster fire that we are. He took a bad program and made them a little better. Dave took a program near the top and drove them to the bottom. We get another head to head match up to prove the point on Saturday. This one's on Mack.

---

They are 1-1 head to head. So, if BU wins Saturday Aranda will have beaten Joey 2 of 3. Does that validate Dave is better?

They are both bad to mediocre coaches. But I guess in the land of the blind...

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No coach with a .625 win percentage at Tech is bad ... or even mediocre, for that matter. Based on his tenure to date, Joey McGuire is at the very worst a good, competent coach.

bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

---

The flaw here is thinking that McGuire wouldn't have had a successful 2021 season with that same roster.

And he almost certainly would have exceeded Aranda's win total in 2020, did exceed it in 2022 and 2023, and will exceed it in 2024. I would 100 percent trade Aranda's tenure for Joey McGuire, even with the 2021 season.

Unfortunately, that ship sailed a long time ago and we'll be cleaning up Dave's mess for at least a couple of years after he's gone. Outside of a national championship, no single season is worth that cost.

---

This is nothing but pure speculation presented as absolute fact. And what ship has sailed? You act as if we are talking as if Rhoades passed over Sark or Deboer. Other than you and maybe one or two others here who post a lot, I have encountered no one wishing Rhoades had picked McGuire and upset about that ship having sailed in the real world as Abercrombie mentioned.

PartyBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

---

The flaw here is thinking that McGuire wouldn't have had a successful 2021 season with that same roster.

And he almost certainly would have exceeded Aranda's win total in 2020, did exceed it in 2022 and 2023, and will exceed it in 2024. I would 100 percent trade Aranda's tenure for Joey McGuire, even with the 2021 season.

Unfortunately, that ship sailed a long time ago and we'll be cleaning up Dave's mess for at least a couple of years after he's gone. Outside of a national championship, no single season is worth that cost.

---

This is nothing but pure speculation presented as absolute fact. And what ship has sailed? You act as if we are talking as if Rhoades passed over Sark or Deboer. Other than you and maybe one or two others here who post a lot, I have encountered no one wishing Rhoades had picked McGuire in the real world as Abercrombie mentioned.

---

McGuire could lose his next eight games and still have a slightly higher win percentage at Tech than Aranda has posted at Baylor. And that's with one inheriting a championship-caliber culture and product and the other inheriting the most mid program in the entire Big 12 in the midst of a down cycle.

Those still defending the Aranda hire with the benefit of hindsight are fools. And some of us had the foresight to know it was a bad one.

Joey should have absolutely gotten the job after Rhule left. Mack made a huge mistake. We are paying for that mistake right now in a big way. The AD needs to be held accountable for that monumental error.

bear2be2 said:

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PartyBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

---

The flaw here is thinking that McGuire wouldn't have had a successful 2021 season with that same roster.

And he almost certainly would have exceeded Aranda's win total in 2020, did exceed it in 2022 and 2023, and will exceed it in 2024. I would 100 percent trade Aranda's tenure for Joey McGuire, even with the 2021 season.

Unfortunately, that ship sailed a long time ago and we'll be cleaning up Dave's mess for at least a couple of years after he's gone. Outside of a national championship, no single season is worth that cost.

---

This is nothing but pure speculation presented as absolute fact. And what ship has sailed? You act as if we are talking as if Rhoades passed over Sark or Deboer. Other than you and maybe one or two others here who post a lot, I have encountered no one wishing Rhoades had picked McGuire in the real world as Abercrombie mentioned.

---

McGuire could lose his next eight games and still have a slightly higher win percentage at Tech than Aranda has posted at Baylor. And that's with one inheriting a championship-caliber culture and product and the other inheriting the most mid program in the entire Big 12 in the midst of a down cycle.

Those still defending the Aranda hire with the benefit of hindsight are fools. And some of us had the foresight to know it was a bad one.

---

The issue is McGuire has won nothing and appeared in zero Big 12 title games. He looks promising so far this season, but the beatdown loss to WSU suggests that he may not be winning the Big 12 this year either. He's essentially the new Holgorsen in the conference.

Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

This

I think most people really understand that it isnt defending Aranda to say "I dont wish McGuire was our HC". Other than 3-4 people on this board flooding the zone with it, I do not hear any Baylor people say that they wish McGuire was the HC.

I would just add to what Abercrombie said. If Tech had our schedule thus far, Tech is very likely sitting on the same w-l record we have as of right now.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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PartyBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

---

The flaw here is thinking that McGuire wouldn't have had a successful 2021 season with that same roster.

And he almost certainly would have exceeded Aranda's win total in 2020, did exceed it in 2022 and 2023, and will exceed it in 2024. I would 100 percent trade Aranda's tenure for Joey McGuire, even with the 2021 season.

Unfortunately, that ship sailed a long time ago and we'll be cleaning up Dave's mess for at least a couple of years after he's gone. Outside of a national championship, no single season is worth that cost.

---

This is nothing but pure speculation presented as absolute fact. And what ship has sailed? You act as if we are talking as if Rhoades passed over Sark or Deboer. Other than you and maybe one or two others here who post a lot, I have encountered no one wishing Rhoades had picked McGuire in the real world as Abercrombie mentioned.

---

McGuire could lose his next eight games and still have a slightly higher win percentage at Tech than Aranda has posted at Baylor. And that's with one inheriting a championship-caliber culture and product and the other inheriting the most mid program in the entire Big 12 in the midst of a down cycle.

Those still defending the Aranda hire with the benefit of hindsight are fools. And some of us had the foresight to know it was a bad one.

---

The issue is McGuire has won nothing and appeared in zero Big 12 title games. He looks promising so far this season, but the beatdown loss to WSU suggests that he may not be winning the Big 12 this year either. He's essentially the new Holgorsen in the conference.

---

Winning the Big 12 isn't the only standard of success. Matt Campbell may be the best coach in our league and he's never won one. Gundy and Klieman, both great coaches, have each won exactly one.

This is McGuire's third year, following a decade plus of below average results at Tech. His teams are never bad and frequently punch above their weight. The exact opposite is true of our program under Dave Aranda. And the one championship he has does nothing to change that.

Matt Wells was the HC for 29 games at Tech. McGuire in his first 29 games as HC had 4 more wins that Matt Wells in 29 games. Is it better yes but not at the dramatic level some here act, thus far.

PartyBear said:

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Matt Wells was the HC for 29 games at Tech. McGuire in his first 29 games as HC had 4 more wins that Matt Wells in 29 games. Is it better yes but not at the dramatic level some here act, thus far.

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Matt Wells left Tech with a .433 win percentage. McGuire's is almost 200 points higher currently. That is dramatically better. Any arguments to the contrary are silly.

bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

---

McGuire would definitely be an upgrade. It's indisputable based on the data. One coach has had one winning season in five years, the other has never had a losing season and there's a 160-point gap in their current win percentages.

You can say you don't think Joey McGuire is a great coach, and that's a fair, defensible position. You can't say he's a bad or mediocre coach or that he wouldn't be an upgrade over Aranda based on any relevant evidence or historical standard.

One might make the claim that Joey isn't a quality college head coach but he has plenty of bona fides about being able to coach and lead football players to team success. Argue the learning curve but not his success and ability.

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

---

McGuire would definitely be an upgrade. It's indisputable based on the data. One coach has had one winning season in five years, the other has never had a losing season and there's a 160-point gap in their current win percentages.

You can say you don't think Joey McGuire is a great coach, and that's a fair, defensible position. You can't say he's a bad or mediocre coach or that he wouldn't be an upgrade over Aranda based on any relevant evidence or historical standard.

---

I don't believe that records are transferrable. I do not think Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could win at Baylor (not that Maguire or Aranda are in the same galaxy as Saban or Meyer). We may be 500 or 1 game over 500, but not a contender. As for Maguire and Aranda, IMO they are interchangeable. Put Aranda at Tech, his winning percentage is similar to Maguire. Put Maguire at Baylor, his winning percentage is similar to Aranda.

Baylor's problems are deeper than Aranda. As long as Rhodes and this President is at Baylor, Baylor is an also-ran.

I am truly starting to believe that Rhule caught the residual of the McCaw/Starr reign that helped him recruit a level we have not come close to since. But we are allowed to disagree.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

---

McGuire would definitely be an upgrade. It's indisputable based on the data. One coach has had one winning season in five years, the other has never had a losing season and there's a 160-point gap in their current win percentages.

You can say you don't think Joey McGuire is a great coach, and that's a fair, defensible position. You can't say he's a bad or mediocre coach or that he wouldn't be an upgrade over Aranda based on any relevant evidence or historical standard.

---

I don't believe that records are transferrable. I do not think Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could win at Baylor (not that Maguire or Aranda are in the same galaxy as Saban or Meyer). We may be 500 or 1 game over 500, but not a contender. As for Maguire and Aranda, IMO they are interchangeable. Put Aranda at Tech, his winning percentage is similar to Maguire. Put Maguire at Baylor, his winning percentage is similar to Aranda.

Baylor's problems are deeper than Aranda. As long as Rhodes and this President is at Baylor, Baylor is an also-ran.

I am truly starting to believe that Rhule caught the residual of the McCaw/Starr reign that helped him recruit a level we have not come close to since. But we are allowed to disagree.

---

Tech is a harder place to win than Baylor is, and he started from a lower platform than Aranda did. Switch their situations and it's likely the gap between the two is even larger.

And both Rhule and Aranda have recruited at roughly the same level Briles did. The difference between Briles and Rhule and Aranda is that the first two are way better at evaluating, fitting and developing talent than the third is.

Our struggles aren't a Baylor problem. They're a Dave Aranda problem.

PartyBear said:

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I think most people really understand that it isnt defending Aranda to say "I dont wish McGuire was our HC". Other than 3-4 people on this board flooding the zone with it, I do not hear any Baylor people say that they wish McGuire was the HC.

I would just add to what Abercrombie said. If Tech had our schedule thus far, Tech is very likely sitting on the same w-l record we have as of right now.

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Well stated!

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

---

McGuire would definitely be an upgrade. It's indisputable based on the data. One coach has had one winning season in five years, the other has never had a losing season and there's a 160-point gap in their current win percentages.

You can say you don't think Joey McGuire is a great coach, and that's a fair, defensible position. You can't say he's a bad or mediocre coach or that he wouldn't be an upgrade over Aranda based on any relevant evidence or historical standard.

---

I don't believe that records are transferrable. I do not think Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could win at Baylor (not that Maguire or Aranda are in the same galaxy as Saban or Meyer). We may be 500 or 1 game over 500, but not a contender. As for Maguire and Aranda, IMO they are interchangeable. Put Aranda at Tech, his winning percentage is similar to Maguire. Put Maguire at Baylor, his winning percentage is similar to Aranda.

Baylor's problems are deeper than Aranda. As long as Rhodes and this President is at Baylor, Baylor is an also-ran.

I am truly starting to believe that Rhule caught the residual of the McCaw/Starr reign that helped him recruit a level we have not come close to since. But we are allowed to disagree.

---

Tech is a harder place to win than Baylor is, and he started from a lower platform than Aranda did. Switch their situations and it's likely the gap between the two is even larger.

And both Rhule and Aranda have recruited at roughly the same level Briles did. The difference between Briles and Rhule and Aranda is that the first two are way better at evaluating, fitting and developing talent than the third is.

Our struggles aren't a Baylor problem. They're a Dave Aranda problem.

---

Glad you have someone to look up to in the Coaching world. I do not agree.

It is a Baylor problem. I disagree Tech is harder to win than Baylor in the NIL world. This is not 2012 or 1985, Portal, NIL and recent success of Tech athletes make Lubbock a better landing spot than Waco. Will multiple years of NIL make a difference? Hopefully, but over the time period we are talking BU has been behind Tech in taking advantage of NIL and their famous Alumni. I blame the AD for the current situation, neither Aranda nor Maguire are P5 HCs. You do not make with one #29 recruiting class. But Maguire has a better "infrastructure" around him to be successful.

Texas Tech athletes reported nearly $8 million in NIL money through first two years (dallasnews.com)

Texas Tech football NIL deal, explained: 100 players to receive $25K each from Matador Club | Sporting News

Mahomes, adidas partnership could help Texas Tech separate from the Big 12 pack (texasfootball.com)

Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes delivers 'All In' speech to Texas Tech football team - Yahoo Sports

College football's top 50 programs ranked by NIL efforts (247sports.com) (Hint: Tech:23 BU: Not on list)

Top 5 players with the highest NIL valuation in Texas Tech ft. Tahj Brooks, Monroe Mills and more (sportskeeda.com)

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Just more food for thought, Dave Aranda has a .325 win percentage (13-27 record) in his four seasons around 2021.

1) Two of those four seasons followed Big 12 championship game appearances and New Year's bowls.
2) That's .015 better than the win percentage of Guy Morriss, who followed two of the three least successful coaches in our program's history.

I think the 2021 season -- and Dave's general likeability -- have blinded some fans to just how awful he has been for most of his Baylor tenure.

---

I agree with you Aranda is not a HC at the P5 level, I think he would be fantastic in the Ivy or at an Academy.
I just don't think Maguire is or was an upgrade.

---

McGuire would definitely be an upgrade. It's indisputable based on the data. One coach has had one winning season in five years, the other has never had a losing season and there's a 160-point gap in their current win percentages.

You can say you don't think Joey McGuire is a great coach, and that's a fair, defensible position. You can't say he's a bad or mediocre coach or that he wouldn't be an upgrade over Aranda based on any relevant evidence or historical standard.

---

I don't believe that records are transferrable. I do not think Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could win at Baylor (not that Maguire or Aranda are in the same galaxy as Saban or Meyer). We may be 500 or 1 game over 500, but not a contender. As for Maguire and Aranda, IMO they are interchangeable. Put Aranda at Tech, his winning percentage is similar to Maguire. Put Maguire at Baylor, his winning percentage is similar to Aranda.

Baylor's problems are deeper than Aranda. As long as Rhodes and this President is at Baylor, Baylor is an also-ran.

I am truly starting to believe that Rhule caught the residual of the McCaw/Starr reign that helped him recruit a level we have not come close to since. But we are allowed to disagree.

---

Tech is a harder place to win than Baylor is, and he started from a lower platform than Aranda did. Switch their situations and it's likely the gap between the two is even larger.

And both Rhule and Aranda have recruited at roughly the same level Briles did. The difference between Briles and Rhule and Aranda is that the first two are way better at evaluating, fitting and developing talent than the third is.

Our struggles aren't a Baylor problem. They're a Dave Aranda problem.

---

Glad you have someone to look up to in the Coaching world. I do not agree.

It is a Baylor problem. I disagree Tech is harder to win than Baylor in the NIL world. This is not 2012 or 1985, Portal, NIL and recent success of Tech athletes make Lubbock a better landing spot than Waco. Will multiple years of NIL make a difference? Hopefully, but over the time period we are talking BU has been behind Tech in taking advantage of NIL and their famous Alumni. I blame the AD for the current situation, neither Aranda nor Maguire are P5 HCs. You do not make with one #29 recruiting class. But Maguire has a better "infrastructure" around him to be successful.

Texas Tech athletes reported nearly $8 million in NIL money through first two years (dallasnews.com)

Texas Tech football NIL deal, explained: 100 players to receive $25K each from Matador Club | Sporting News

Mahomes, adidas partnership could help Texas Tech separate from the Big 12 pack (texasfootball.com)

Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes delivers 'All In' speech to Texas Tech football team - Yahoo Sports

College football's top 50 programs ranked by NIL efforts (247sports.com) (Hint: Tech:23 BU: Not on list)

Top 5 players with the highest NIL valuation in Texas Tech ft. Tahj Brooks, Monroe Mills and more (sportskeeda.com)

---

Our 2025 class -- basically the first in which we've taken NIL seriously -- is ranked third in the Big 12 ... well ahead of Tech in both team ranking and average recruit grade.

We don't have a talent acquisition problem. We have a talent evaluation and development problem. And that rests solely at the feet of Dave Aranda and the staff he's assembled ... and reassembled ... and reassembled again.

Baylor's last three coaches have all had seasons that match Tech's best in the last 45 or 50 years. That's our potential. And Tech fans, who have experienced one double-digit-win season since 1977 and zero Big 12 championships would trade us in a heartbeat.

Don't let Aranda's incompetence fool you into believing Baylor has a major institutional problem when it comes to fielding competitive football teams. We have a head coaching problem, and that's an impediment we need to remove sooner rather than later.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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To be fair, I have yet to come across a Baylor fan in real life that would trade Baylor's 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons for the same seasons turned in at Tech. 2024 may turn the tide if McGuire can make the Big 12 title game though.

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I get what you're saying but that's not necessarily a fair parallel. Matt Wells was in Lubbock those first 2 seasons you mentioned. He had no business being a Big 12 coach for anyone much like Harsin had no business running a SEC program.

Y'all remember Texas Tech is located in Lubbock, Texas. Anyone who truly believes it's easier to recruit TTU than Baylor has never been to Lubbock. Except for the 12 games a year, kids don't want to go to Lubbock.

Killing Floor said:

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Y'all remember Texas Tech is located in Lubbock, Texas. Anyone who truly believes it's easier to recruit TTU than Baylor has never been to Lubbock. Except for the 12 games a year, kids don't want to go to Lubbock.

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Who pays more? That's the primary driver. Lubock does suck, I won't deny that

We are talking about the same Joey that got blown out by WSU and was saved a loss vs Abilene Christian because the ACU coach made a bad call on a 2 pt conversion?

5-1 though. And gonna make three straight bowl games at tech.