Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Didn't the girl who was allegedly assaulted by Ukwuachu sue the school and the school settled? I'm just wondering what Baylor did wrong in that case.

---

Yes

Psychological help and academic accommodations. There is a whole litany of things a University should do to accommodate an alleged victim that was not up and running.

---

Yep she also transferred to north Texas where she accused two other men of sexual assault. Wonder if she got counseling over there too or their offices were set up. By the way do you think all 3 men raped that girl in under a year?

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Ummm....no.

If by "the whole thing" you mean the reason for Briles' firing.

He was fired for failure to follow university policies, including Title IX, to which he has basically admitted guilt.

Whether SU is convicted has no bearing on the causes for Briles' dismissal.

---

Soo they paid him millions because he didn't follow university policies?? Nice logic GT missed ya bud!

---

It's abundantly clear the nature of litigious situations and settlements evade your understanding in full.

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

Drunken hookup @ old main said:

---

Quote:

---

If Ukwuachu was cleared like he should have been do you think his "Baylor scandal" takes place?

---

Nope, but Briles would still be ducking JA and our Regents would still be sponsoring a rape victim shaming COO, so... yay us?

---

Lol classic moron. If he was ducking JA why didn't the regents fire him for that and not pay him a dime?? Your theory has holes buddy. And what proof do you have that they shamed coeds besides the media?? I thought so NEXT!!

---

Because Briles' attorney filed to separate him from Baylor's defense in the Hernandez case and substitute counsel. He asked for all the defense records. There was a pending mediation date set on the Hernandez case. Briles settled with Baylor and withdrew a day before the mediation. Hernandez ' s attorney claimed Briles attorney suggested Briles may side with her at the mediation. In short, Briles had some leverage and used it for his buy-out.

---

Innocence will give you pretty good leverage won't it?? That's why they paid him till he was filthy rich to walk away.

---

Weird how this guy can never work again then since his innocence is so cut and dry by your own claims.

He accepted a settlement and has kept his mouth shut because the damning evidence against him not coming out is in his best interests and the school would prefer not to put all of the dirty laundry in public view either.

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Didn't the girl who was allegedly assaulted by Ukwuachu sue the school and the school settled? I'm just wondering what Baylor did wrong in that case.

---

Yes

Psychological help and academic accommodations. There is a whole litany of things a University should do to accommodate an alleged victim that was not up and running.

---

Yep she also transferred to north Texas where she accused two other men of sexual assault. Wonder if she got counseling over there too or their offices were set up. By the way do you think all 3 men raped that girl in under a year?

---

Can you prove this claim or is this just the latest libelous lie you mistake for a healthy part of your unhinged fantasy life?

I also heard (from one of the moderators on this site) that she supposedly made other accusations against men after she transferred to UNT but have never seen any confirmation of it.

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Eball said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Ummm....no.

If by "the whole thing" you mean the reason for Briles' firing.

He was fired for failure to follow university policies, including Title IX, to which he has basically admitted guilt.

Whether SU is convicted has no bearing on the causes for Briles' dismissal.

---

He was not terminated for cause...BU decided to exercise their contractual right to buy him out.

---

Lol. Incorrect.

---

What is incorrect?

Eball said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Eball said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Ummm....no.

If by "the whole thing" you mean the reason for Briles' firing.

He was fired for failure to follow university policies, including Title IX, to which he has basically admitted guilt.

Whether SU is convicted has no bearing on the causes for Briles' dismissal.

---

He was not terminated for cause...BU decided to exercise their contractual right to buy him out.

---

Lol. Incorrect.

---

What is incorrect?

---

All of it.

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

Drunken hookup @ old main said:

---

Quote:

---

If Ukwuachu was cleared like he should have been do you think his "Baylor scandal" takes place?

---

Nope, but Briles would still be ducking JA and our Regents would still be sponsoring a rape victim shaming COO, so... yay us?

---

Lol classic moron. If he was ducking JA why didn't the regents fire him for that and not pay him a dime?? Your theory has holes buddy. And what proof do you have that they shamed coeds besides the media?? I thought so NEXT!!

---

Because Briles' attorney filed to separate him from Baylor's defense in the Hernandez case and substitute counsel. He asked for all the defense records. There was a pending mediation date set on the Hernandez case. Briles settled with Baylor and withdrew a day before the mediation. Hernandez ' s attorney claimed Briles attorney suggested Briles may side with her at the mediation. In short, Briles had some leverage and used it for his buy-out.

---

Innocence will give you pretty good leverage won't it?? That's why they paid him till he was filthy rich to walk away.

---

You can be right all day and have zero leverage. People with deep pockets for good lawyers count on that. He had a good possibility to mover out under his own counsel and hit BU defense records they did not want to share. Plus his attorney could leave the impression that he could side with complaintants and cause Baylor huge payouts. That was the threat reported to apologize and side with Hernandez. That is what got him the money.

Eball said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Eball said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Ummm....no.

If by "the whole thing" you mean the reason for Briles' firing.

He was fired for failure to follow university policies, including Title IX, to which he has basically admitted guilt.

Whether SU is convicted has no bearing on the causes for Briles' dismissal.

---

He was not terminated for cause...BU decided to exercise their contractual right to buy him out.

---

Lol. Incorrect.

---

What is incorrect?

---

Eball you are correct. That's the way it was explained to me because they had no cause and so Briles could coach somewhere else (which hasn't happened).

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Good heavens, I've stayed out of the CAB debate because very few people know all the details, and I became a fan of BU in significant part because of him, but this is preposterous. Formal complaints of assault/sex misconduct, including multiple gang rapes, against 19 players during CAB's tenure and more informal. No, however this case turns out the hole thing does NOT come down.

sombear said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Good heavens, I've stayed out of the CAB debate because very few people know all the details, and I became a fan of BU in significant part because of him, but this is preposterous. Formal complaints of assault/sex misconduct, including multiple gang rapes, against 19 players during CAB's tenure and more informal. No, however this case turns out the hole thing does NOT come down.

---

Where are the police reports of the gang rapes? Where is the reporting to the police? I haven't seen a damn thing. The regents who wrote the FOF labeled them "gang rapes" then the women did and chose to sue I guess money is more important than bringing these Assailants to justice.. NEXT!

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Good heavens, I've stayed out of the CAB debate because very few people know all the details, and I became a fan of BU in significant part because of him, but this is preposterous. Formal complaints of assault/sex misconduct, including multiple gang rapes, against 19 players during CAB's tenure and more informal. No, however this case turns out the hole thing does NOT come down.

---

Where are the police reports of the gang rapes? Where is the reporting to the police? I haven't seen a damn thing. The regents who wrote the FOF labeled them "gang rapes" then the women did and chose to sue I guess money is more important than bringing these Assailants to justice.. NEXT!

---

Thanks for stopping by Staley

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Didn't the girl who was allegedly assaulted by Ukwuachu sue the school and the school settled? I'm just wondering what Baylor did wrong in that case.

---

Yes

Psychological help and academic accommodations. There is a whole litany of things a University should do to accommodate an alleged victim that was not up and running.

---

I thought they offered those services. They were just poorly run. The weird thing is that JA found ol Sam innocent right? So do they still owe the alleged victim access to those things?

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Good heavens, I've stayed out of the CAB debate because very few people know all the details, and I became a fan of BU in significant part because of him, but this is preposterous. Formal complaints of assault/sex misconduct, including multiple gang rapes, against 19 players during CAB's tenure and more informal. No, however this case turns out the hole thing does NOT come down.

---

Where are the police reports of the gang rapes? Where is the reporting to the police? I haven't seen a damn thing. The regents who wrote the FOF labeled them "gang rapes" then the women did and chose to sue I guess money is more important than bringing these Assailants to justice.. NEXT!

---

Sadly very few went to the police and instead went to people internally they thought they could trust.

Chanceux said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Didn't the girl who was allegedly assaulted by Ukwuachu sue the school and the school settled? I'm just wondering what Baylor did wrong in that case.

---

Yes

Psychological help and academic accommodations. There is a whole litany of things a University should do to accommodate an alleged victim that was not up and running.

---

I thought they offered those services. They were just poorly run. The weird thing is that JA found ol Sam innocent right? So do they still owe the alleged victim access to those things?

---

Like a court, not guilty is more appropriate, did not find a preponderance of the evidence is best. Baylor's decision came almost exclusively from a polygraph which Sam passed. They deemed it a he said she said and 51% was needed. Baylor was criticized for a doing a poor investigation fwiw.

Alleged victim still owed access to accommodations regardless of ruling.

One example of Baylor's institutional failures was that there was as much as a one semester wait to see a counselor. Easy to see how unacceptable that is for an assault victim.

And easy to see how that is the responsibility of the football coach

sombear said:

---

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Robemcdo said:

---

Bona Fide Bear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

You are hopeful, huh? What personal investment do you have in this, oh that's right, you're a Canadian that claims ties to Ian McCaw.

Shouldn't your primary concern be trying to spring that convicted murderer Carlton Doton that you swear is innocent?

Isn't that the most vital domino in your scheme to paint the prosecutors you hate as invalid?

---

We all have a vested interest in justice being properly served. SU doesn't change anything that happened under CAB, even if the CABers will turn it into more proof that CAB was actually a really moral man, even though he let allegations stop at his door, regardless of how terrible the protocol was at the University as a whole and he accepted a settlement that keeps him from clearing his name. However, if SU is allowed to go free, then a wrongly accused, determined by the justice system, man will allowed to live a life as a free man.

---

Sam and Elliott form the foundation for this whole mess. Without these two blocks the whole thing comes down

---

Good heavens, I've stayed out of the CAB debate because very few people know all the details, and I became a fan of BU in significant part because of him, but this is preposterous. Formal complaints of assault/sex misconduct, including multiple gang rapes, against 19 players during CAB's tenure and more informal. No, however this case turns out the hole thing does NOT come down.

---

Where are the police reports of the gang rapes? Where is the reporting to the police? I haven't seen a damn thing. The regents who wrote the FOF labeled them "gang rapes" then the women did and chose to sue I guess money is more important than bringing these Assailants to justice.. NEXT!

---

Sadly very few went to the police and instead went to people internally they thought they could trust.

---

How many victims of gang rape went to the police? You said "very few" did, so that would imply more than one. Where are those reports? For those victims of gang rape who talked to someone "internally," to whom did they go "internally," and what is your evidence that they "thought they could trust" those people? Do you have individual level data on this?

People put a lot of trust in those writing the checks.

So gang bangs discovered by PH are highly questionable, but the faithful do nothing but star the post about the two rapes at UNT where the source seems to be nothing but a like minded poster.

If there really is anything to that sure would like to read the story

Answering D.C. Bear, the 19 are not in dispute, and it was widely reported that the alleged victims went to many different people - football coaches, other coaches, counselors, administrators, professors. Nobody disputed this. People did dispute and still do whether much of that was CAB's fault or responsibility, but they were reported along with an unknown additional number.

Well, why not go to the police? No one else is in charge of law enforcement.

Honest question: With what appears to be a pretty aggressive DA's office in Waco the past few years which didn't appear to be inclined to give Baylor any breaks (like the authorities seem to do elsewhere....think Norman, OK and Lawrence KS), why have so few of the men claimed to be guilty of assault not been arrested?

I truly have forgotten the numbers...but 19 and 50 something come to mind.

As far as I can recall, there have been two convictions (one under review by the appellate court), an arrest (and indictment?) of Oakman, and two others mentioned. Have the two others mentioned been formally charged?

If that's 6, what about the other 13? Why were they not arrested and charged?

I'm truly just seeking a better understanding from those who follow all of this closely. Why were these other guys allowed to stay free if they appear to be guilty of assault? Whose fault is that?

Bub4ever said:

---

Answering D.C. Bear, the 19 are not in dispute, and it was widely reported that the alleged victims went to many different people - football coaches, other coaches, counselors, administrators, professors. Nobody disputed this. People did dispute and still do whether much of that was CAB's fault or responsibility, but they were reported along with an unknown additional number.

---

There were 19 gang rapes?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bub4ever said:

---

Answering D.C. Bear, the 19 are not in dispute, and it was widely reported that the alleged victims went to many different people - football coaches, other coaches, counselors, administrators, professors. Nobody disputed this. People did dispute and still do whether much of that was CAB's fault or responsibility, but they were reported along with an unknown additional number.

---

There were 19 gang rapes?

---

No, 19 reports of assault/sex misconduct

GruntTuff said:

---

Honest question: With what appears to be a pretty aggressive DA's office in Waco the past few years which didn't appear to be inclined to give Baylor any breaks (like the authorities seem to do elsewhere....think Norman, OK and Lawrence KS), why have so few of the men claimed to be guilty of assault not been arrested?

I truly have forgotten the numbers...but 19 and 50 something come to mind.

As far as I can recall, there have been two convictions (one under review by the appellate court), an arrest (and indictment?) of Oakman, and two others mentioned. Have the two others mentioned been formally charged?

If that's 6, what about the other 13? Why were they not arrested and charged?

I'm truly just seeking a better understanding from those who follow all of this closely. Why were these other guys allowed to stay free if they appear to be guilty of assault? Whose fault is that?

---

Many of the cases were stuck in BU's system and too much time had passed to prosecute. Many decided not to press criminal charges, which is fairly common in these cases, and no, not all or even most settled for money. Still others the DA looked at and didn't think they could convict.

sombear said:

---

Bearwitness8223 said:

---

Where are the police reports of the gang rapes? Where is the reporting to the police? I haven't seen a damn thing. The regents who wrote the FOF labeled them "gang rapes" then the women did and chose to sue I guess money is more important than bringing these Assailants to justice.. NEXT!

---

Sadly very few went to the police and instead went to people internally they thought they could trust.

---

Could you please be more specific?

Bub4ever said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bub4ever said:

---

Answering D.C. Bear, the 19 are not in dispute, and it was widely reported that the alleged victims went to many different people - football coaches, other coaches, counselors, administrators, professors. Nobody disputed this. People did dispute and still do whether much of that was CAB's fault or responsibility, but they were reported along with an unknown additional number.

---

There were 19 gang rapes?

---

No, 19 reports of assault/sex misconduct

---

sombear was answering a question specifically about gang rapes. So, I'm still wondering if sombear has any actual knowledge.

Bub4ever said:

---

GruntTuff said:

---

Honest question: With what appears to be a pretty aggressive DA's office in Waco the past few years which didn't appear to be inclined to give Baylor any breaks (like the authorities seem to do elsewhere....think Norman, OK and Lawrence KS), why have so few of the men claimed to be guilty of assault not been arrested?

I truly have forgotten the numbers...but 19 and 50 something come to mind.

As far as I can recall, there have been two convictions (one under review by the appellate court), an arrest (and indictment?) of Oakman, and two others mentioned. Have the two others mentioned been formally charged?

If that's 6, what about the other 13? Why were they not arrested and charged?

I'm truly just seeking a better understanding from those who follow all of this closely. Why were these other guys allowed to stay free if they appear to be guilty of assault? Whose fault is that?

---

Many of the cases were stuck in BU's system and too much time had passed to prosecute. Many decided not to press criminal charges, which is fairly common in these cases, and no, not all or even most settled for money. Still others the DA looked at and didn't think they could convict.

---

1. Generally, there are no statutes of limitations regarding sexual assaults. Aggravated sexual assaults have no limitation.

2. There never were 52 rape cases. That was PI attorney exaggeration. It was unsubstantiated by any evidence whatsoever.

3. Most of the claimed cases were not prosecuted because (1) they never happened, (2) they were never reported to police, or (3) there was never any evidence corroborating the victims' claims.

4. Baylor did not have an obligation to report anything. In fact, if Baylor were to report a crime to police for which there was no corroborating evidence, Baylor could actually face civil liability if the accused were to be harmed.

5. The issue here had nothing to do with law enforcement or Baylor's relationship to law enforcement. The issue was failures in our Title IX compliance, internal student disciplinary procedures and internal disciplinary procedures within the football program itself.

The amount of incorrect information in this thread is rather staggering. Regardless, I bet if we keep discussing this it will definitely lead to Art being rehired.

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

I thought they offered those services. They were just poorly run. The weird thing is that JA found ol Sam innocent right? So do they still owe the alleged victim access to those things?

---

Like a court, not guilty is more appropriate, did not find a preponderance of the evidence is best. Baylor's decision came almost exclusively from a polygraph which Sam passed. They deemed it a he said she said and 51% was needed. Baylor was criticized for a doing a poor investigation fwiw.

Alleged victim still owed access to accommodations regardless of ruling. ...

---

So they owed accommodations to the alleged victim - what did they owe the alleged rapist (who was favored by the "preponderance of the evidence)?

Found the answers to my questions yet Keyser?

Gunny Hartman said:

---

The amount of incorrect information in this thread is rather staggering. Regardless, I bet if we keep discussing this it will definitely lead to Art being rehired.

---

While I would not call it "staggering," there is more than enough contradictory information to know a good deal of it is incorrect. If we keep discussing it, depending on who contributes and what they contribute, maybe we'll eventually have an understanding of what went wrong institutionally, since the institution did not seem to believe telling the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

The amount of incorrect information in this thread is rather staggering. Regardless, I bet if we keep discussing this it will definitely lead to Art being rehired.

---

While I would not call it "staggering," there is more than enough contradictory information to know a good deal of it is incorrect. If we keep discussing it, depending on who contributes and what they contribute, maybe we'll eventually have an understanding of what went wrong institutionally, since the institution did not seem to believe telling the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.

---

I know plenty, but I'm not going to waste my time typing it all out here. There would be no point in putting forth the time and effort because 99% of the people here already have their minds made up, and the facts be damned.

Gunny Hartman said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

The amount of incorrect information in this thread is rather staggering. Regardless, I bet if we keep discussing this it will definitely lead to Art being rehired.

---

While I would not call it "staggering," there is more than enough contradictory information to know a good deal of it is incorrect. If we keep discussing it, depending on who contributes and what they contribute, maybe we'll eventually have an understanding of what went wrong institutionally, since the institution did not seem to believe telling the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.

---

I know plenty, but I'm not going to waste my time typing it all out here. There would be no point in putting forth the time and effort because 99% of the people here already have their minds made up, and the facts be damned.

---

I suppose you are in the one percent who hasn't made up your mind?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

The amount of incorrect information in this thread is rather staggering. Regardless, I bet if we keep discussing this it will definitely lead to Art being rehired.

---

While I would not call it "staggering," there is more than enough contradictory information to know a good deal of it is incorrect. If we keep discussing it, depending on who contributes and what they contribute, maybe we'll eventually have an understanding of what went wrong institutionally, since the institution did not seem to believe telling the truth is a worthwhile endeavor.

---

I know plenty, but I'm not going to waste my time typing it all out here. There would be no point in putting forth the time and effort because 99% of the people here already have their minds made up, and the facts be damned.

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I suppose you are in the one percent who hasn't made up your mind?

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My mind is not made up about anything regarding the "Scandal" other than what I know to be fact.