BaylorOkie said:

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Booray said:

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We already can't get on TV.

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I'm going to unfriend and unfollow you.

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Ouch

MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

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This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

Doc Holliday said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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He said he doesn't question himself after games. Ugh.
Blames everything on the team lacking confidence.

Somehow him questioning his own coaching philosophy is out of the question.

So Stubborn.

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Gary Patterson realized in year 2 of their Big 12 play they'd need to change offensive philosophies to answer the "air raid" in the Big 12. Hello new OC Sonny Cumbie.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

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I mean Rhule could win at Baylor if he would adapt and open up the offense with speed and spread...but he won't.

The guy is a total wh0re for trying to win in the trenches which about as dumb as it gets in the Big12 and with Texas HS recruits.

He fails to understand that depth is strength and speed is points on the board.

Briles was successful not because of his play style...but his ability to recruit that catered to his playing style. It's a very simplistic approach to football but highly effective...and the key to winning was depth.

A good coach is a good recruiter. But Rhule is recruiting spread/speed and trying to get strength and toughness out of them.

Our recruits are 18 year old spread players that played 7 on 7 during the weekend.

It's like trying to make a smoothie by putting a brick in a blender.

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Um, if you don't win "in the trenches," you don't win. Art's OL in 2015, anyone?

Ridiculous to think adding toughness to a football team is a bad thing. He's not asking his record-breaking track athletes to run slower.

PartyBear said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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If the comments here are what he really said, DoorMatt has already lost the team.

Turning down personal givaAf dial for a couple more years until he moves on

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We seriously cant afford to allow this to go on another couple of years. I dont think we afford to let it go on beyond a couple of more months. He has lost the alums and fans including many who were still in the supporter column after last season.

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It doesn't matter what you think ... or repeat here ad nauseam.

Rhule will get a fair timetable to rebuild the program from a scandal that had a far greater impact than most here want to admit. Barring something extreme occurring, he'll get four years.

At the end of that period, he'll have either succeeded or failed. But they're not going to fire him after two years.

Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

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This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

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History says never be able to recruit the depth inside to play that way. One philosophy is gotta go outside the box here...another is what Coach (and others) try. Then, I'd guess you have to factor in conf. competition and 21st century trends.

Bearish said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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He said he doesn't question himself after games. Ugh.
Blames everything on the team lacking confidence.

Somehow him questioning his own coaching philosophy is out of the question.

So Stubborn.

---

Gary Patterson realized in year 2 of their Big 12 play they'd need to change offensive philosophies to answer the "air raid" in the Big 12. Hello new OC Sonny Cumbie.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

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I mean Rhule could win at Baylor if he would adapt and open up the offense with speed and spread...but he won't.

The guy is a total wh0re for trying to win in the trenches which about as dumb as it gets in the Big12 and with Texas HS recruits.

He fails to understand that depth is strength and speed is points on the board.

Briles was successful not because of his play style...but his ability to recruit that catered to his playing style. It's a very simplistic approach to football but highly effective...and the key to winning was depth.

A good coach is a good recruiter. But Rhule is recruiting spread/speed and trying to get strength and toughness out of them.

Our recruits are 18 year old spread players that played 7 on 7 during the weekend.

It's like trying to make a smoothie by putting a brick in a blender.

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Um, if you don't win "in the trenches," you don't win. Art's OL in 2015, anyone?

Ridiculous to think adding toughness to a football team is a bad thing. He's not asking his record-breaking track athletes to run slower.

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You can win in the trenches after building some wins and getting recruits that can handle it...but not off the bat with sloppy players.

We won the Big12 in 2013 and attracted the best recruiting classes Baylor has ever seen.

He is asking record breaking track athletes to run LESS.

SPREAD or DEAD.

Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

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This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

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This is a great post and one that will likely fall on deaf ears here.

I don't have any idea if Matt Rhule and his philosophies will work out at Baylor or in the Big 12, but I know he's playing a long game and it will take some time to find out. If it works, he'll look like a genius two years from now, and everyone here will be eating crow. If it doesn't, he'll likely join Beal and Steele near the bottom of the Baylor coaching hierarchy.

But it's clear from both his words and actions that he's always viewed this as a long-term rebuilding process and his recruiting strategies and personnel decisions have reflected that. As long as positive progress is being made, I'm willing to be patient and see if that light bulb goes on at some point. But frankly, it doesn't matter what I'm willing or unwilling to put up with because he will (and should be) given a fair amount of time to put his words and philosophies to action.

Redbrickbear said:

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Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

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This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

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Agree......this is his over all idea.

Problem is we don't know if it will work out in 4 years.

And if it does not....we will have had 4 years of 2 wins seasons.......that will leave the next coach having to dig the program out of a deep grave.

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You never know how any coach is going to work out. Every hire is a crapshoot, and most take at least a little time for results to manifest. Hell, we had people calling for Briles' firing after two years on baylorfans.

The scenario you describe in the final paragraph could well happen. But it would be no less damaging to the program than pulling the plug on a staff a year or two before it starts yielding positive results and/or starting the rotating door of coaches/philosophies we experienced between Teaff and Briles.

With every new hire, you're committing a minimum of three or four years to that staff to produce the type of results they've told you they can produce. That's especially true in a program like ours that has been rocked by scandal and had three coaches in four years. Like it or not, we have no real choice but to sit back and see if the confidence this staff has in its process is warranted or misplaced. The early returns don't look particularly promising, but it's still very early in what is by any measure a significant transition.

bear2be2 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

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This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

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Agree......this is his over all idea.

Problem is we don't know if it will work out in 4 years.

And if it does not....we will have had 4 years of 2 wins seasons.......that will leave the next coach having to dig the program out of a deep grave.

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You never know how any coach is going to work out. Every hire is a crapshoot, and most take at least a little time for results to manifest. Hell, we had people calling for Briles' firing after two years on baylorfans.

The scenario you describe in the final paragraph could well happen. But it would be no less damaging to the program than pulling the plug on a staff a year or two before it starts yielding positive results and/or starting the rotating door of coaches/philosophies we experienced between Teaff and Briles.

With every new hire, you're committing a minimum of three or four years to that staff to produce the type of results they've told you they can produce. That's especially true in a program like ours that has been rocked by scandal and had three coaches in four years. Like it or not, we have no real choice but to sit back and see if the confidence this staff has in its process is warranted or misplaced. The early returns don't look particularly promising, but it's still very early in what is by any measure a significant transition.

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It's just frustrating because a 6-6 or even 5-7 season would do wonders to get the fanbase to coalesce around the program and move on from the past.

Instead, we hear the lingering hurt feelings from those that either don't understand or don't want to understand that a coaching change was mandatory.

Redbrickbear said:

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Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

---

I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

---

This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

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Agree......this is his over all idea.

Problem is we don't know if it will work out in 4 years.

And if it does not....we will have had 4 years of 2 wins seasons.......that will leave the next coach having to dig the program out of a deep grave.

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This. 100%.

MilliVanilli said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Bearish said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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PartyBear said:

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I completely agree. I'm just saying what his overall record here could very easily be as of today but yet it is way short of that.

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I give 2017 a mulligan for transition, but you should've learned by now that you're not running in a blizzard in South Bend, Indiana at any time in the Big 12.

Having a team that can is nice, so we can run out the clock in a Cotton Bowl, but if we can't even get to a Cotton Bowl to begin with what good is it.

---

This is the biggest difference with Rhule vs. Art.

Art's offense in years 1 and 2 looked nothing like what he ultimately wanted in 2013 and 2014. Art ran RG3 nearly to death as a freshman because he had to (it was the only way to pick up a couple of wins). He was a "throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks" guy for the first couple of years. (People wanted him gone after back to back 4-win seasons, also).

Rhule, by contrast, believes there is a "correct" way to play. He's getting guys for what he ultimately wants to do, betting that once his recruits are Juniors/Seniors (having played the same way - day in and day out - for 3 or 4 years), we will finally be the team he wants. That's the "process." He doesn't want to run Charlie to death (or at least ACL surgery like RG3), in order to be 4-8 vs 1-11. I'm hoping he's right in the end, but it's way too early to say he's not.

---

Agree......this is his over all idea.

Problem is we don't know if it will work out in 4 years.

And if it does not....we will have had 4 years of 2 wins seasons.......that will leave the next coach having to dig the program out of a deep grave.

---

You never know how any coach is going to work out. Every hire is a crapshoot, and most take at least a little time for results to manifest. Hell, we had people calling for Briles' firing after two years on baylorfans.

The scenario you describe in the final paragraph could well happen. But it would be no less damaging to the program than pulling the plug on a staff a year or two before it starts yielding positive results and/or starting the rotating door of coaches/philosophies we experienced between Teaff and Briles.

With every new hire, you're committing a minimum of three or four years to that staff to produce the type of results they've told you they can produce. That's especially true in a program like ours that has been rocked by scandal and had three coaches in four years. Like it or not, we have no real choice but to sit back and see if the confidence this staff has in its process is warranted or misplaced. The early returns don't look particularly promising, but it's still very early in what is by any measure a significant transition.

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It's just frustrating because a 6-6 or even 5-7 season would do wonders to get the fanbase to coalesce around the program and move on from the past.

Instead, we hear the lingering hurt feelings from those that either don't understand or don't want to understand that a coaching change was mandatory.

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There's a lot to be frustrated by these days -- on and off the field.

Like everyone else, I wish wins were coming more easily and progress more quickly. It's hard to be optimistic when you have a performance like we had in the first half Saturday. But I find my hope in two things: Rhule's confidence and this staff's track record.

While acknowledging up front that this staff could well fail here, I think it significant that these guys came here with a plan that they believe in, won't waver from and has generated results in the past. Some may view that as foolish, but I'd be far more concerned if the lack of immediate results were generating panic or exposing a lack of conviction among our coaching ranks. But to this point, it hasn't, and I think that's a good thing.

Why? Because they have succeeded at a high level before with this same blueprint, so they know what it's supposed to look like. If this staff, like Kevin Steele's, was full of guys who had never performed the roles they were being asked to fill here, I'd be right there with everyone else calling them clowns. But I can't reconcile these guys' past with the facts that they're idiots all of the sudden. Matt Rhule took Temple to unprecedented heights in his four years there, and utilized the same tear-down-to-build-up philosophy we've seen here. Will it work here? Who knows? But I don't think he forgot how to coach. Same with Phil Snow, who has been successful literally everywhere else he's been.

These guys know football. The question is whether they can turn that knowledge and their philosophies on how the game should be played into winning results. They haven't yet, but it's still very early in their tenure here and there are more factors at play than most are willing to admit. Ultimately, though, they'll have stand on their own record in Waco. And I'm hoping by that time, the results will more closely reflect those they've forecasted than what we've seen to date.

LavacaBear said:

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In Briles early seasons that we're a struggle, we saw good progress. Positive trends. We look terribly confused.

Even later with Briles in our best years we'd see a poor first half... but a hellacious 2nd half, or vice versa.

We look empty and lost.

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I think you're romanticizing Briles' first two seasons. Griffin was about the only cause for excitement in Year 1, and outside of one inexplicable game in Missouri, Year 2 was a disaster. Even Year 3 had its share of frustrations, though they were easy to overlook because of the tangible progress made that season.

Anything worth building takes time. And since we have no choice or control in the matter, we might as well be patient and see how this thing plays out. The pitchfork mob could well end up being right. Rhule could be an abject failure here. But it's going to take more than 15 games to determine that, and he'll be given three seasons at a minimum to get the ship righted.

Booray said:

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Year 1 under Briles was pretty big step up from where we had been. Upped the win total and went from an 0-fer in conference to 2 wins. One of those wins was eATMe, which counts for 2 wins. Plus very competitive games against top-10 tech, #14 Missouri and a good UConn squad.

That made season 2 easier to take, particularly knowing we had lightning in a bottle recovering in the bench.

Haven't seen much like that yet. Last year's OU and WVU games gave some hope, and maybe we will see some more.

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I think that's fair. But that improvement/optimism had more to do with the infusion of Griffin and Wright to the offense than it did Briles' system, which was a shell of what it would become at that point.

That's my only point here. You can't tell a whole lot from the first year or two in most rebuilding situations. You want to see signs, obviously, and hopefully we will this year. But it generally takes time for programs to be built/rebuilt and real progress to be made.

Bunch of yall act like Rhule took over the team STACKED with Art Briles players and a full roster with a great signing class coming in

AND with a proven QB talent like Stidham in his Jr season

The mere FACT that Baylor allowed almost ALL of Arts stellar recruiting class transfer before Grobe took over pretty much doomed us for a few years of yuckness on the field

We are lucky so far that Rhule has recruited unbelievably given what had happened

Did yall forget all of this or are yall just feeling the outrage


I dont get it

I predicted 5 wins this year, and I would have been good with that if the team were getting more competitive and more competent and looking like they were trending most definitely upwards. And I was even saying then I don't know if Duke will be one of those wins. I thought Duke had a better team...but that was before they lost their QB and best defensive player, and then lost two or three other guys early in the game.

I would still feel fairly content with FOUR wins, minimum. I don't care where those other two come from, but I need to see something taking shape and getting some identity.

Right now my confidence in seeing even just those other two or three wins is really waning. I don't like where it sits right now.

Please change my mind soon, coach Rhule. You're not just losing games and losing fans. It's going to be a lot deeper than that if it doesn't start looking like something.

Dia del DougO said:

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RG3 didn't injure his knee running the ball, being run to death. He got hit behind the line of scrimmage, under pressure from a team that wasn't even very good...much like what's happening these days. We're lucky we haven't had a QB knocked out for a long period, as we did last year.

Nobody, other than maybe an oddball or two, was calling for Briles to be fired after two seasons. That's just total nonsense. We could all see the improvement taking place and optimism for Baylor football.

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Yeah, he was injured on a designed QB option on a fourth down play on Northwestern State's 25 yard line because Art didn't want to kick a field goal - on our opening series for God's sake. Sorry, but if Rhule pulled that crap today with Charlie, everyone would be livid.