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If you believe in Art...

38,408 Views | 299 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Forest Bueller
SATXBear
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Malbec said:

You've NEVER seen me ascribe to the theory of 0/0/0. I wouldn't say that about tennis or basketball either. But, I also do not abide 17/19/4 and the slick spin with which it was created. But to blame the coach for one or more of his players committing a SA is wrong, and suggesting whether directly or by silence, that a coach participated in covering up SA is even more wrong.

I think you are applying a stigma to the word "scapegoat" that over extends the nature of the beast. What happened to Briles at BU was not a first on our campus, it was just the most overt. When the press gets wind, or even if there is a possibility that the press might get wind of something embarrassing, someone is going to get saddled with the blame. And when you think the culture you have constructed is just (for whatever purpose you deem it to be just), you will seek to maintain the order that built the culture, and you will do so at the expense of those on the periphery of that culture. And, often, as that order has proven at BU, you will ease your guilt in doing so with the only thing you have that can allow you to perpetuate that order - money.

Now, there are those that will remain nameless, that like to suggest that the resultant brouhaha that created a worsening of the "scandal" was the action of Briles after he was terminated; that if he had just taken his money and gone away, he would be working now at another college, and that he was fully to blame for the way the press treated him, since he gave interviews and showed up at a ball game in another city. Well, let me give you something to think about here.

If Baylor had simply come out with a definitive statement that said, "Art Briles is a good man. We must make this clear. He did not attempt to cover up sexual assault. Nobody at Baylor attempted to cover up sexual assault. We take the safety of our students at Baylor with the utmost sincerity and will always put the welfare of our students before anything else. There simply was an attitude of relaxed discipline and accountability within the football program that the university doesn't wish to falsely portray Baylor as a school willing to win at any cost and we feel it is better to start fresh. We have paid Coach Briles a settlement of $15 million to honor our contractual obligation to him. We wish Coach Briles the best, and know that he will make another university an outstanding coach."

Instead the university chose to let the press run wild with false stories and allow a false narrative to be created and sustained. BU didn't even tell the press that they paid Briles and how much they paid him. It took required tax information filings to bring that info out. Had that information been released from the start, it would have quelled much negative press against Briles and there would have been no need for him to defend himself to the media. It is amazing that the very same critics that blame Briles for defending himself in the press, also claim that if he was wronged he would have sued Baylor and not dropped his lawsuit against the Regents. He shouldn't have defended himself! He should have defended himself! You guys have to make up your mind on this one.

I think all Briles wanted when he filed his suit was to have the Regents involved stop throwing gasoline on the fire. If they had not tossed out that 17/19/4 garbage, and had just made a statement that Briles was not a rape enabler, that lawsuit would have never been filed.


Nice post. That is a reasonable alternative that might have worked. I do not believe Briles' post firings actions were as altruistic as you make them out to be.
Keyser Soze
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Malbec said:

You've NEVER seen me ascribe to the theory of 0/0/0. I wouldn't say that about tennis or basketball either. But, I also do not abide 17/19/4 and the slick spin with which it was created. But to blame the coach for one or more of his players committing a SA is wrong, and suggesting whether directly or by silence, that a coach participated in covering up SA is even more wrong.

I think you are applying a stigma to the word "scapegoat" that over extends the nature of the beast. What happened to Briles at BU was not a first on our campus, it was just the most overt. When the press gets wind, or even if there is a possibility that the press might get wind of something embarrassing, someone is going to get saddled with the blame. And when you think the culture you have constructed is just (for whatever purpose you deem it to be just), you will seek to maintain the order that built the culture, and you will do so at the expense of those on the periphery of that culture. And, often, as that order has proven at BU, you will ease your guilt in doing so with the only thing you have that can allow you to perpetuate that order - money.

Now, there are those that will remain nameless, that like to suggest that the resultant brouhaha that created a worsening of the "scandal" was the action of Briles after he was terminated; that if he had just taken his money and gone away, he would be working now at another college, and that he was fully to blame for the way the press treated him, since he gave interviews and showed /up at a ball game in another city. Well, let me give you something to think about here.

If Baylor had simply come out with a definitive statement that said, "Art Briles is a good man. We must make this clear. He did not attempt to cover up sexual assault. Nobody at Baylor attempted to cover up sexual assault. We take the safety of our students at Baylor with the utmost sincerity and will always put the welfare of our students before anything else. There simply was an attitude of relaxed discipline and accountability within the football program that the university doesn't wish to falsely portray Baylor as a school willing to win at any cost and we feel it is better to start fresh. We have paid Coach Briles a settlement of $15 million to honor our contractual obligation to him. We wish Coach Briles the best, and know that he will make another university an outstanding coach."

Instead the university chose to let the press run wild with false stories and allow a false narrative to be created and sustained. BU didn't even tell the press that they paid Briles and how much they paid him. It took required tax information filings to bring that info out. Had that information been released from the start, it would have quelled much negative press against Briles and there would have been no need for him to defend himself to the media. It is amazing that the very same critics that blame Briles for defending himself in the press, also claim that if he was wronged he would have sued Baylor and not dropped his lawsuit against the Regents. He shouldn't have defended himself! He should have defended himself! You guys have to make up your mind on this one.


I think all Briles wanted when he filed his suit was to have the Regents involved stop throwing gasoline on the fire. If they had not tossed out that 17/19/4 garbage, and had just made a statement that Briles was not a rape enabler, that lawsuit would have never been filed.
Agree for the most part

Things turned nasty quickly. Briles made a not so subtle move to let them know he would be very pro-Hernandez friendly in upcoming litigation. They settled with Briles and Hernandez shortly after that but the bridges were ablaze. They were not about to lend a helping hand after that. Hard to turn the clock back once sides were in full screw you mode.

17/19/4 when read properly is not garbage at all - it is allegations and we can put a name to most

















Malbec
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SATXBear said:

Malbec said:

You've NEVER seen me ascribe to the theory of 0/0/0. I wouldn't say that about tennis or basketball either. But, I also do not abide 17/19/4 and the slick spin with which it was created. But to blame the coach for one or more of his players committing a SA is wrong, and suggesting whether directly or by silence, that a coach participated in covering up SA is even more wrong.

I think you are applying a stigma to the word "scapegoat" that over extends the nature of the beast. What happened to Briles at BU was not a first on our campus, it was just the most overt. When the press gets wind, or even if there is a possibility that the press might get wind of something embarrassing, someone is going to get saddled with the blame. And when you think the culture you have constructed is just (for whatever purpose you deem it to be just), you will seek to maintain the order that built the culture, and you will do so at the expense of those on the periphery of that culture. And, often, as that order has proven at BU, you will ease your guilt in doing so with the only thing you have that can allow you to perpetuate that order - money.

Now, there are those that will remain nameless, that like to suggest that the resultant brouhaha that created a worsening of the "scandal" was the action of Briles after he was terminated; that if he had just taken his money and gone away, he would be working now at another college, and that he was fully to blame for the way the press treated him, since he gave interviews and showed up at a ball game in another city. Well, let me give you something to think about here.

If Baylor had simply come out with a definitive statement that said, "Art Briles is a good man. We must make this clear. He did not attempt to cover up sexual assault. Nobody at Baylor attempted to cover up sexual assault. We take the safety of our students at Baylor with the utmost sincerity and will always put the welfare of our students before anything else. There simply was an attitude of relaxed discipline and accountability within the football program that the university doesn't wish to falsely portray Baylor as a school willing to win at any cost and we feel it is better to start fresh. We have paid Coach Briles a settlement of $15 million to honor our contractual obligation to him. We wish Coach Briles the best, and know that he will make another university an outstanding coach."

Instead the university chose to let the press run wild with false stories and allow a false narrative to be created and sustained. BU didn't even tell the press that they paid Briles and how much they paid him. It took required tax information filings to bring that info out. Had that information been released from the start, it would have quelled much negative press against Briles and there would have been no need for him to defend himself to the media. It is amazing that the very same critics that blame Briles for defending himself in the press, also claim that if he was wronged he would have sued Baylor and not dropped his lawsuit against the Regents. He shouldn't have defended himself! He should have defended himself! You guys have to make up your mind on this one.

I think all Briles wanted when he filed his suit was to have the Regents involved stop throwing gasoline on the fire. If they had not tossed out that 17/19/4 garbage, and had just made a statement that Briles was not a rape enabler, that lawsuit would have never been filed.


Nice post. That is a reasonable alternative that might have worked. I do not believe Briles' post firings actions were as altruistic as you make them out to be.
Where did I suggest such a thing? His post-firing actions were self-serving. Honestly, wouldn't yours have been if you were in the same boat...alone? His only altruistic action was to drop his suit against the Regents to clear a path for his assistant coaches and his son.

The thing that galls me the most is that certain people at BU thought that money was enough. Sometimes, you have to give something else. Less money and more character would have gone a long way to making this whole thing less of a catastrophe for everyone.
Dman
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Thee University said:

Dman said:

Thee University said:

Timbear said:

Wow, the fact that Art is merely being interviewed certainly has the resident boo birds energized today.
Wrong.

The fact that so many of you losers, still, 2+ years later, clinging to the robe of a disgraced coach who ran a program which allowed "very bad things" to taint the reputation of Baylor are stroking each other into orgasmic orbit makes me feel "dirty".




Again. The hypocrisy. If Briles "allowed very bad things to happen". So did the BoR...campus wide...before Briles ever knew where Waco was on a map. But you praise your friends on the BoR regularly for doing such a great job.

Two. You have a pen!s complex. Is it because of your age, obesity, and the fact that you probably haven't seen yours in years? See...it's easy to go gutter,...it's just not called for.
I didn't think you had it in you!

You got it all wrong though. I have a complex *****.

I'll put my % of body fat up against yours any day.


Just now getting back over after a few days of traveling. Some of us have real lives.

I see those on the payroll are still spinning. Earning that check. Keyser is even Going for some overtime pay in fact.

But this post is one of the best. I see we've hit a sore spot. No worries. It's normal around your age, weight, condition, etc. I can have some partners in your area recommend a good urologists. No need to go through life challenging people to body fat percentage competition on a public forum (let that desperation level sink in) or outwardly showing this degree of insecurity on so many posts. Pen!s this...pen!s that. Your cry for help won't go unnoticed.


xiledinok
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Soft hands, when is Briles going to stop sticking his ignorant boy head out of the bunker and stop getting blasted?

Art just might knocked off Coach Hopson. I guess Art is a weapon if you can tie him up with an enemy.

Could someone not associated with Briles hatch a plan to tie Art up with the North Koreans?
YoakDaddy
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SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

Thee University said:

rileyroo said:

Here is what I believe:

1) Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies.

2) BU failed some women and didn't want the facts to come out (so they opened the university pocket books and bought their silence). For that, I say shame on our University.

3) Art was not a bad man and took for the fall for many of the university failures. He is not completely blameless, but the hysteria about him was over the top.

4) BU took chances on athletes, but the same thing is done by all universities.

The saddest part of all of this is that we will probably never know the truth. The media posted outrageous statements over and over and the public bought it. We are forever labeled as the "rape" university. Where are all of the gang rapists? Why haven't they been prosecuted?

If anything good came out of this, it is that BU finally realized that they are a major university and cannot pretend to be a vacation bible school anymore. We have real problems.

It is too bad that Briles and company cannot ever tell their story without being dragged throught the mud again. I hope he gets to coach again because I believe in second chances and I truly believe that we didn't hear the whole story. I refuse to judge someone without knowing the facts in their entirety. I would want the same if I was accused of something so egregious.
Well congratulations poindexter. You judged without FACTS in their entirety. Thanks for telling us what you believe.

#1. Blame Ian instead of the BOR.
#2. That is a wild-@$$ed guess on your part. Who failed the women? Who bought silence?
#3. Art was a bad man for not doing his entire job and bringing in a cancerous element to his team. He built it. He drove it until it overheated, pulled to the side of the road with a strange smoke wafting out from underneath the Yugo, hopped out of the green and gold car and into the burnt orange Cadillac. Unfortunately for him the Caddy never had any intention of taking him to Austin.
#4 Great. Blame it all on the other schools. Baylor has made a few mistakes over the years but for the most part either vetted the bad apples out prior to arrival or let them go after one or two strikes.

We have a chance to shed the "rape U" image you mentioned above. We are working on it but it appears we earned a great deal of it.


My point you ask? You did a lot of judging without knowing the facts in their entirety.


His items 1 and 2 are utter nonsenses and is something repeated frequently on this free board.

Not only is it judging, but also lunacy.

Not lunacy; truth. Riley's #1 and #2 are true. 1) There was a Baylor commissioned study done by Margolis-Healy in 2014 specifically outlining our T9 deficiencies and non-compliance. That's why Patty Crawford was hired. The BOFR dang sure knew. 2) There were women coming out of the shadows to report SA claims with one going as far back as 1997. You bet the checkbook was open.


And that is why Starr was fired. He refused to implement title 9 reform. PH report helped expose more problems, so people got fired. No cover up.

No shlt, Sherlock. Old news. To Riley's point, "Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies." that you said was false is definitely true as I noted above with the regents knowing about T9 non-compliance through the 2014 Margolis-Healy report. Compliance was not a top priority (it was a Tier2 priority according to depos) and they didn't hold Starr accountable for 2 years until they fired him. Yeah, the verbal PH presentation identified even more.


Wrong again. They cleaned house to get rid of people not doing their job. You really love living in the crazy conspiracy world, don't you.

Hold on there, Clueless. If we cleaned house, why are Jackson, Holmes, Murdock, McCraw, and MLS still employed? RR and TLD are riding off into the sunset with no accountability while Livingstone herself stated in a recent article, "If you look at the actual changes that have taken place on campus, the vast majority of them were not related to the athletic department," she said. "Clearly the university understood that this was a much broader issue."

Just from the timeline below for Tevin Elliott, it's documented that 5 folks in leadership knew of allegations against him and watched him for >6 months before Briles was notified of the breadth of TE's activities. And that's not to mention a BOFR that knew of T9 non-compliances in 2014 with recommendations to fix.

So we've got documentation:
- October 5, 2011 email showing Doak and RR knew TE was "assaulting young women" (note the plural used from report)
- November 7, 2011 email noting that administration (Murdock, McCraw, and Martha Lou) knew of TE's "assaults" (note plural used from report),
- November 2011 football told of "an incident" (note singular used from report-unwanted contact)
- TE allegedly rapes a student on 4/15/12,
- Administration fully notifies football program on 4/25/12,
- Football program suspends Elliott on 4/27/12 the same day they learn Waco PD wants a cheek swab for their investigation.

From dated documents it appears football was never notified of breadth of the situation until 4/25/12. It further appears to me that that the clown show of RR, Doak, Murdock, McCraw, Martha Lou, were the problem. That's 5 senior folks in the administration that knew and did nothing. IMO they need to do time with TE. Fulking shameful!


You must be one of the attorneys sueing Baylor? It is common knowledge that a hundred employees in administration were relieved of duties after the scandal. What is your point? At least the BOR finally woke up and made serious changes.

Name one regent that resigned or one exec admin fired as a result of this scandal. Name just one.


Come over to the pay board. The mods have posted that many administrative people have been turned over since 2016. Also, many BOR members prior to 2014 are gone. The BOR that handled the 2016 scandal were just firemen putting out problems of the past. Maybe you should quit hating the school. Did you even attend Baylor?

You can't even name one outside of Athletics and Starr. Referral to the pay side is no way to live life kid. Research for yourself; ask serious questions. Baylor taught us to question.

BTW...I don't hate Baylor. I love Baylor; she's is in my genetic code so to speak. I am not a lawyer. I am a Baylor alum that's ashamed as to how our "leaders" treated victims, failed to deal with serious issues head-on, and refused to accept accountability and consequences then proclaimed "Christian Mission" when actions said otherwise. I'm happy that we're getting better, but we've still got decades of work to repair shattered lives and Baylor's reputation.


I can't help you anymore young man.

You never did.


If you consider yourself a friend of Baylor, she does not need enemies.

I'm heritage-alumni of Baylor. It's not about being an enemy; it's about stepping up and accepting accountability and consequences for all involved in our failures. Our scandal was not 100% football/athletics related. If you think I'm an enemy, go to your safe space, snowflake. Head in the sand, never question mentality is a huge reason why we are where we are. Adios.
57Bear
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In response to claims that Baylor singled out the football program in something that was a broader school-wide issue, Gray responded, "football is just a fraction, but it is a bad fraction." According to the Wall Street Journal, football players accounted for 10.4 percent of Title IX reported incidents over the four year period that ended in 2014-15.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/four-things-to-know-baylor-regents-detail-briles-response-to-sexual-assault-scandal/

Dman
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Keyser Soze said:

Malbec said:

You will never get it. I have long been convinced of that, and you continue to reinforce that reality. Honestly, I am so tired of trying to get you to see what had been the method at BU going back over 40 years, not just in football, but in every sport, and in every department. You seemed at one time to understand how Baylor handled women that reported SA, but you put that in a separate box; except that you want to dump the contents of all the boxes together when it comes to Briles for some reason. You admit to the university culture when it comes to how the university discouraged SA reporting and publicity, but you can't seem to reconcile that they might do something similar when it came to somewhat less distasteful offenses.

Just think about what you know. You know the university routinely and for many decades dissuaded women from reporting SA using the student conduct code about drugs and alcohol and the threat of parental involvement as tools to avoid action and disclosure. You know this is a direct violation of Title IX protocol, yet you conveniently ignore this blatant and repeated violation and suggest that even though such was part and parcel of university-wide culture, that somehow the football program was expected to unilaterally break the long entrenched regimen; that finally after all of the regents, JA officials, administrators, professors, other coaches, campus police officers (all, both former and current) had utilized this system for years and years and were still operating under it despite Title IX guidance, that it was up to Art Briles to stand up and change the culture and be responsible for following a reporting protocol for which he had never even been trained?

This is why so many people think of you as a BOR shill. It's not because you back the ultimate decision of the Board to fire Briles, it's that you ignore what you already know and admit about BU disciplinary culture and refuse to apply it evenly. You think that Briles trying to avoid JA and publicity was done for his own benefit. It was done because that's how things were done at Baylor. If you applied your theory equally and fairly, I doubt you would need all the fingers on your left hand to count how many coaches and others with direct supervision of students at Baylor over the past few decades would have escaped the axe; and that's even if an unfortunate shop class accident had taken a finger or two. It may not have been Job 1 to protect the BU image, but it was always near the top of the list. It seems that you may be mad because Briles was simply the one with the baton when the times caught up to the university, even though the sweat hadn't even dried on the relay legs before him.

I hope that things have changed, but I fear that the beating that BU has taken in the press, and its relentless nature to blow every happening on campus into an extended scandal will make those running the school gun-shy and send everyone back into their trenches. After all, Briles isn't around to pin it on anymore. I hope they understand that it's on them now; to not accept that would be more than just unfortunate.


My post are almost entirely responses to incorrect or misleading information - most of such posts of that nature are of the nature "Briles is a scapegoat". I feel strongly such things should not go unchallenged in a public forum - that hurts Baylor and I have great affection for Baylor.

You want me to say the admin was wrong - start a thread about how Starr was wronged or scapegoated. I'll be there





Here's the rub and the intellectual dishonesty you have shown for YEARS. You take allegations and use them as points of argument when it works In your favor..ONLY against Briles. Yet dismiss the same allegations and demand only facts with eye witnesses and notarized documentation when against the BOR. Even "facts" are twisted per the eye of the beholder. But that twisting with you..is a one way street.

Did Briles fail. Yes. Did he cover up rape..nope. Did the BoR fail. Yes. Did they intentionally sabotage the university, nope. But they made big mistakes before Briles was ever on campus and after.. and we're in way over their head once the **** started flying.

Once that started. THEY ALL
STARTED LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR OWN INTEREST. Including Briles. Including the BoR. For you to disagree with that and say "no, the BoR only acted on what was best for Baylor" highlights your personal bias. Which is fine. We all have them. But don't claim impartiality or intellectual honesty.


This BoR would not be in place if they answered to any independent 3rd party..anyone but themselves. Maybe Briles wouldn't either. We've moved on with Rhule (who I've suppoeted from day 1). But Baylor deserves and has better options available to lead us.
Keyser Soze
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And you have said over and over that they committed acts that created great personal liability - not just failure to hold Starr's feet to the fire, not just being behind on T9, but acts of gross negligence creating liability - thus the deliberate hiding of things.

Repeatedly asked, who are and what did the do we get crickets from you over and over. Worry about you own lack of credibility and back up what you say.

Who, what, when

(Of course we all know you can't answer that question ...... three paragraph rant coming in 3, 2 .....)
Dman
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YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

Thee University said:

rileyroo said:

Here is what I believe:

1) Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies.

2) BU failed some women and didn't want the facts to come out (so they opened the university pocket books and bought their silence). For that, I say shame on our University.

3) Art was not a bad man and took for the fall for many of the university failures. He is not completely blameless, but the hysteria about him was over the top.

4) BU took chances on athletes, but the same thing is done by all universities.

The saddest part of all of this is that we will probably never know the truth. The media posted outrageous statements over and over and the public bought it. We are forever labeled as the "rape" university. Where are all of the gang rapists? Why haven't they been prosecuted?

If anything good came out of this, it is that BU finally realized that they are a major university and cannot pretend to be a vacation bible school anymore. We have real problems.

It is too bad that Briles and company cannot ever tell their story without being dragged throught the mud again. I hope he gets to coach again because I believe in second chances and I truly believe that we didn't hear the whole story. I refuse to judge someone without knowing the facts in their entirety. I would want the same if I was accused of something so egregious.
Well congratulations poindexter. You judged without FACTS in their entirety. Thanks for telling us what you believe.

#1. Blame Ian instead of the BOR.
#2. That is a wild-@$$ed guess on your part. Who failed the women? Who bought silence?
#3. Art was a bad man for not doing his entire job and bringing in a cancerous element to his team. He built it. He drove it until it overheated, pulled to the side of the road with a strange smoke wafting out from underneath the Yugo, hopped out of the green and gold car and into the burnt orange Cadillac. Unfortunately for him the Caddy never had any intention of taking him to Austin.
#4 Great. Blame it all on the other schools. Baylor has made a few mistakes over the years but for the most part either vetted the bad apples out prior to arrival or let them go after one or two strikes.

We have a chance to shed the "rape U" image you mentioned above. We are working on it but it appears we earned a great deal of it.


My point you ask? You did a lot of judging without knowing the facts in their entirety.


His items 1 and 2 are utter nonsenses and is something repeated frequently on this free board.

Not only is it judging, but also lunacy.

Not lunacy; truth. Riley's #1 and #2 are true. 1) There was a Baylor commissioned study done by Margolis-Healy in 2014 specifically outlining our T9 deficiencies and non-compliance. That's why Patty Crawford was hired. The BOFR dang sure knew. 2) There were women coming out of the shadows to report SA claims with one going as far back as 1997. You bet the checkbook was open.


And that is why Starr was fired. He refused to implement title 9 reform. PH report helped expose more problems, so people got fired. No cover up.

No shlt, Sherlock. Old news. To Riley's point, "Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies." that you said was false is definitely true as I noted above with the regents knowing about T9 non-compliance through the 2014 Margolis-Healy report. Compliance was not a top priority (it was a Tier2 priority according to depos) and they didn't hold Starr accountable for 2 years until they fired him. Yeah, the verbal PH presentation identified even more.


Wrong again. They cleaned house to get rid of people not doing their job. You really love living in the crazy conspiracy world, don't you.

Hold on there, Clueless. If we cleaned house, why are Jackson, Holmes, Murdock, McCraw, and MLS still employed? RR and TLD are riding off into the sunset with no accountability while Livingstone herself stated in a recent article, "If you look at the actual changes that have taken place on campus, the vast majority of them were not related to the athletic department," she said. "Clearly the university understood that this was a much broader issue."

Just from the timeline below for Tevin Elliott, it's documented that 5 folks in leadership knew of allegations against him and watched him for >6 months before Briles was notified of the breadth of TE's activities. And that's not to mention a BOFR that knew of T9 non-compliances in 2014 with recommendations to fix.

So we've got documentation:
- October 5, 2011 email showing Doak and RR knew TE was "assaulting young women" (note the plural used from report)
- November 7, 2011 email noting that administration (Murdock, McCraw, and Martha Lou) knew of TE's "assaults" (note plural used from report),
- November 2011 football told of "an incident" (note singular used from report-unwanted contact)
- TE allegedly rapes a student on 4/15/12,
- Administration fully notifies football program on 4/25/12,
- Football program suspends Elliott on 4/27/12 the same day they learn Waco PD wants a cheek swab for their investigation.

From dated documents it appears football was never notified of breadth of the situation until 4/25/12. It further appears to me that that the clown show of RR, Doak, Murdock, McCraw, Martha Lou, were the problem. That's 5 senior folks in the administration that knew and did nothing. IMO they need to do time with TE. Fulking shameful!


You must be one of the attorneys sueing Baylor? It is common knowledge that a hundred employees in administration were relieved of duties after the scandal. What is your point? At least the BOR finally woke up and made serious changes.

Name one regent that resigned or one exec admin fired as a result of this scandal. Name just one.


Come over to the pay board. The mods have posted that many administrative people have been turned over since 2016. Also, many BOR members prior to 2014 are gone. The BOR that handled the 2016 scandal were just firemen putting out problems of the past. Maybe you should quit hating the school. Did you even attend Baylor?

You can't even name one outside of Athletics and Starr. Referral to the pay side is no way to live life kid. Research for yourself; ask serious questions. Baylor taught us to question.

BTW...I don't hate Baylor. I love Baylor; she's is in my genetic code so to speak. I am not a lawyer. I am a Baylor alum that's ashamed as to how our "leaders" treated victims, failed to deal with serious issues head-on, and refused to accept accountability and consequences then proclaimed "Christian Mission" when actions said otherwise. I'm happy that we're getting better, but we've still got decades of work to repair shattered lives and Baylor's reputation.


I can't help you anymore young man.

You never did.


If you consider yourself a friend of Baylor, she does not need enemies.

I'm heritage-alumni of Baylor. It's not about being an enemy; it's about stepping up and accepting accountability and consequences for all involved in our failures. Our scandal was not 100% football/athletics related. If you think I'm an enemy, go to your safe space, snowflake. Head in the sand, never question mentality is a huge reason why we are where we are. Adios.


So let me get this straight. According to SA.."friends
Of Baylor" look at this body of leaders who were
In charge of Baylor during the biggest University wide scandal (not just football), that has cost hundreds of milllions of dollars..who were reprimanded by their own FoF for meddling, conflicts, mismanagement, lack of oversight....I could go on. And then say "atta boy! Great job! Keep up the good work! Baylor is in great hands". Those are the friends.

"Enemies" of Baylor, those who step up and say..wow. These guys were asleep at the wheel. They needed a scandal that cost hundreds of millions of dollars and public black eye, and being under the public microscope and scrutiny to initiate MUCH needed reform, much of it aimed at them specifically. Maybe we can do better. We have qualified alternatives. You don't get to be a part of the problem and the solution. Those are the enemies?!

Who loves Baylor?
Dman
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Keyser Soze said:


And you have said over and over that they committed acts that created great personal liability - not just failure to hold Starr's feet to the fire, not just being behind on T9, but acts of gross negligence creating liability - thus the deliberate hiding of things.

Repeatedly asked, who are and what did the do we get crickets from you over and over. Worry about you own lack of credibility and back up what you say.

Who, what, when

(Of course we all know you can't answer that question ...... three paragraph rant coming in 3, 2 .....)



Actually, I stated they are not immune from personal lawsuits. Counter to what you implied. That is all. I also said, we'd never know and they went to great lengths to ensure that.

I stated that when the **** hit the fan. EVERYONE stated looking out for themselves. Briles and the BoR, Ian, Star. EVERYONE. But according to you...nope. Not the BoR.

Now..since we got that straight. I've noticed You don't deny using allegations when it fits your narrative and a completely different criteria full of twisting and turning to counter allegations and/or facts when it doesn't?

So don't get in here and say you only come on here to clear up misunderstandings. You come on here to protect and serve...and we know who.
Keyser Soze
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Knew you would give an answer
Keyser Soze
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Dman said:

Keyser Soze said:


And you have said over and over that they committed acts that created great personal liability - not just failure to hold Starr's feet to the fire, not just being behind on T9, but acts of gross negligence creating liability - thus the deliberate hiding of things.

Repeatedly asked, who are and what did the do we get crickets from you over and over. Worry about you own lack of credibility and back up what you say.

Who, what, when

(Of course we all know you can't answer that question ...... three paragraph rant coming in 3, 2 .....)



Actually, I stated they are not immune from personal lawsuits. Counter to what you implied. That is all. I also said, we'd never know and they went to great lengths to ensure that.

I stated that when the **** hit the fan. EVERYONE stated looking out for themselves. Briles and the BoR, Ian, Star. EVERYONE. But according to you...nope. Not the BoR.

Now..since we got that straight. I've noticed You don't deny using allegations when it fits your narrative and a completely different criteria full of twisting and turning to counter allegations and/or facts when it doesn't?

So don't get in here and say you only come on here to clear up misunderstandings. You come on here to protect and serve...and we know who.

I do believe people act in their best interest most all the time. I don't think the BOR are any different.

That said I do not believe their exist any real personal liability to them other than public blow back which they got from early on. Thus, I reject the conspiracies of them hiding stuff for their own gain - to protect Baylor sure, just not their own gain.

And you have said far more than they are not immune from personal lawsuits - you have repeatedly implied valid reasons exist for them to deliberately hide things for their own self interest. I have repeated asked you to name names and acts .... and I get crickets from you.






Dman
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Keyser Soze said:

Knew you would give an answer


Is this the best you have? Repeating yourself? You literally make my point for me with every post.

I gave you credit for "intellectual" dishonesty. My bad.
Keyser Soze
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Dman said:

Keyser Soze said:

Malbec said:

You will never get it. I have long been convinced of that, and you continue to reinforce that reality. Honestly, I am so tired of trying to get you to see what had been the method at BU going back over 40 years, not just in football, but in every sport, and in every department. You seemed at one time to understand how Baylor handled women that reported SA, but you put that in a separate box; except that you want to dump the contents of all the boxes together when it comes to Briles for some reason. You admit to the university culture when it comes to how the university discouraged SA reporting and publicity, but you can't seem to reconcile that they might do something similar when it came to somewhat less distasteful offenses.

Just think about what you know. You know the university routinely and for many decades dissuaded women from reporting SA using the student conduct code about drugs and alcohol and the threat of parental involvement as tools to avoid action and disclosure. You know this is a direct violation of Title IX protocol, yet you conveniently ignore this blatant and repeated violation and suggest that even though such was part and parcel of university-wide culture, that somehow the football program was expected to unilaterally break the long entrenched regimen; that finally after all of the regents, JA officials, administrators, professors, other coaches, campus police officers (all, both former and current) had utilized this system for years and years and were still operating under it despite Title IX guidance, that it was up to Art Briles to stand up and change the culture and be responsible for following a reporting protocol for which he had never even been trained?

This is why so many people think of you as a BOR shill. It's not because you back the ultimate decision of the Board to fire Briles, it's that you ignore what you already know and admit about BU disciplinary culture and refuse to apply it evenly. You think that Briles trying to avoid JA and publicity was done for his own benefit. It was done because that's how things were done at Baylor. If you applied your theory equally and fairly, I doubt you would need all the fingers on your left hand to count how many coaches and others with direct supervision of students at Baylor over the past few decades would have escaped the axe; and that's even if an unfortunate shop class accident had taken a finger or two. It may not have been Job 1 to protect the BU image, but it was always near the top of the list. It seems that you may be mad because Briles was simply the one with the baton when the times caught up to the university, even though the sweat hadn't even dried on the relay legs before him.

I hope that things have changed, but I fear that the beating that BU has taken in the press, and its relentless nature to blow every happening on campus into an extended scandal will make those running the school gun-shy and send everyone back into their trenches. After all, Briles isn't around to pin it on anymore. I hope they understand that it's on them now; to not accept that would be more than just unfortunate.


My post are almost entirely responses to incorrect or misleading information - most of such posts of that nature are of the nature "Briles is a scapegoat". I feel strongly such things should not go unchallenged in a public forum - that hurts Baylor and I have great affection for Baylor.

You want me to say the admin was wrong - start a thread about how Starr was wronged or scapegoated. I'll be there





Here's the rub and the intellectual dishonesty you have shown for YEARS. You take allegations and use them as points of argument when it works In your favor..ONLY against Briles. Yet dismiss the same allegations and demand only facts with eye witnesses and notarized documentation when against the BOR. Even "facts" are twisted per the eye of the beholder. But that twisting with you..is a one way street.

Did Briles fail. Yes. Did he cover up rape..nope. Did the BoR fail. Yes. Did they intentionally sabotage the university, nope. But they made big mistakes before Briles was ever on campus and after.. and we're in way over their head once the **** started flying.

Once that started. THEY ALL
STARTED LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR OWN INTEREST. Including Briles. Including the BoR. For you to disagree with that and say "no, the BoR only acted on what was best for Baylor" highlights your personal bias. Which is fine. We all have them. But don't claim impartiality or intellectual honesty.


This BoR would not be in place if they answered to any independent 3rd party..anyone but themselves. Maybe Briles wouldn't either. We've moved on with Rhule (who I've suppoeted from day 1). But Baylor deserves and has better options available to lead us.




It is a FACT that allegations of misdeeds went unreported to university officials. That is not using allegations to make an argument.

When Ian repeats an allegation, even under oath, that act neither validates or invalidates the allegation - it merely puts in the record Ian knew of it.







Thee University
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Dman said:

Thee University said:

Dman said:

Thee University said:

Timbear said:

Wow, the fact that Art is merely being interviewed certainly has the resident boo birds energized today.
Wrong.

The fact that so many of you losers, still, 2+ years later, clinging to the robe of a disgraced coach who ran a program which allowed "very bad things" to taint the reputation of Baylor are stroking each other into orgasmic orbit makes me feel "dirty".




Again. The hypocrisy. If Briles "allowed very bad things to happen". So did the BoR...campus wide...before Briles ever knew where Waco was on a map. But you praise your friends on the BoR regularly for doing such a great job.

Two. You have a pen!s complex. Is it because of your age, obesity, and the fact that you probably haven't seen yours in years? See...it's easy to go gutter,...it's just not called for.
I didn't think you had it in you!

You got it all wrong though. I have a complex *****.

I'll put my % of body fat up against yours any day.


Just now getting back over after a few days of traveling. Some of us have real lives.

I see those on the payroll are still spinning. Earning that check. Keyser is even Going for some overtime pay in fact.

But this post is one of the best. I see we've hit a sore spot. No worries. It's normal around your age, weight, condition, etc. I can have some partners in your area recommend a good urologists. No need to go through life challenging people to body fat percentage competition on a public forum (let that desperation level sink in) or outwardly showing this degree of insecurity on so many posts. Pen!s this...pen!s that. Your cry for help won't go unnoticed.



Get back to traveling. That was weak BS.

Sore spot? I'll bet you have a huge sore spot!
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
Reverend
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Body fat percentage is damn important. Percentage of dead brain cells is even more important.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Dman said:





Just now getting back over after a few days of traveling. Some of us have real lives.

I see those on the payroll are still spinning. Earning that check. Keyser is even Going for some overtime pay in fact.

But this post is one of the best. I see we've hit a sore spot. No worries. It's normal around your age, weight, condition, etc. I can have some partners in your area recommend a good urologists. No need to go through life challenging people to body fat percentage competition on a public forum (let that desperation level sink in) or outwardly showing this degree of insecurity on so many posts. Pen!s this...pen!s that. Your cry for help won't go unnoticed.



Even I noticed his use of "we".
Quote:

it is allegations and we can put a name to most
Casual use of the pronoun or a true insider?
SATXBear
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Dman said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

Thee University said:

rileyroo said:

Here is what I believe:

1) Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies.

2) BU failed some women and didn't want the facts to come out (so they opened the university pocket books and bought their silence). For that, I say shame on our University.

3) Art was not a bad man and took for the fall for many of the university failures. He is not completely blameless, but the hysteria about him was over the top.

4) BU took chances on athletes, but the same thing is done by all universities.

The saddest part of all of this is that we will probably never know the truth. The media posted outrageous statements over and over and the public bought it. We are forever labeled as the "rape" university. Where are all of the gang rapists? Why haven't they been prosecuted?

If anything good came out of this, it is that BU finally realized that they are a major university and cannot pretend to be a vacation bible school anymore. We have real problems.

It is too bad that Briles and company cannot ever tell their story without being dragged throught the mud again. I hope he gets to coach again because I believe in second chances and I truly believe that we didn't hear the whole story. I refuse to judge someone without knowing the facts in their entirety. I would want the same if I was accused of something so egregious.
Well congratulations poindexter. You judged without FACTS in their entirety. Thanks for telling us what you believe.

#1. Blame Ian instead of the BOR.
#2. That is a wild-@$$ed guess on your part. Who failed the women? Who bought silence?
#3. Art was a bad man for not doing his entire job and bringing in a cancerous element to his team. He built it. He drove it until it overheated, pulled to the side of the road with a strange smoke wafting out from underneath the Yugo, hopped out of the green and gold car and into the burnt orange Cadillac. Unfortunately for him the Caddy never had any intention of taking him to Austin.
#4 Great. Blame it all on the other schools. Baylor has made a few mistakes over the years but for the most part either vetted the bad apples out prior to arrival or let them go after one or two strikes.

We have a chance to shed the "rape U" image you mentioned above. We are working on it but it appears we earned a great deal of it.


My point you ask? You did a lot of judging without knowing the facts in their entirety.


His items 1 and 2 are utter nonsenses and is something repeated frequently on this free board.

Not only is it judging, but also lunacy.

Not lunacy; truth. Riley's #1 and #2 are true. 1) There was a Baylor commissioned study done by Margolis-Healy in 2014 specifically outlining our T9 deficiencies and non-compliance. That's why Patty Crawford was hired. The BOFR dang sure knew. 2) There were women coming out of the shadows to report SA claims with one going as far back as 1997. You bet the checkbook was open.


And that is why Starr was fired. He refused to implement title 9 reform. PH report helped expose more problems, so people got fired. No cover up.

No shlt, Sherlock. Old news. To Riley's point, "Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies." that you said was false is definitely true as I noted above with the regents knowing about T9 non-compliance through the 2014 Margolis-Healy report. Compliance was not a top priority (it was a Tier2 priority according to depos) and they didn't hold Starr accountable for 2 years until they fired him. Yeah, the verbal PH presentation identified even more.


Wrong again. They cleaned house to get rid of people not doing their job. You really love living in the crazy conspiracy world, don't you.

Hold on there, Clueless. If we cleaned house, why are Jackson, Holmes, Murdock, McCraw, and MLS still employed? RR and TLD are riding off into the sunset with no accountability while Livingstone herself stated in a recent article, "If you look at the actual changes that have taken place on campus, the vast majority of them were not related to the athletic department," she said. "Clearly the university understood that this was a much broader issue."

Just from the timeline below for Tevin Elliott, it's documented that 5 folks in leadership knew of allegations against him and watched him for >6 months before Briles was notified of the breadth of TE's activities. And that's not to mention a BOFR that knew of T9 non-compliances in 2014 with recommendations to fix.

So we've got documentation:
- October 5, 2011 email showing Doak and RR knew TE was "assaulting young women" (note the plural used from report)
- November 7, 2011 email noting that administration (Murdock, McCraw, and Martha Lou) knew of TE's "assaults" (note plural used from report),
- November 2011 football told of "an incident" (note singular used from report-unwanted contact)
- TE allegedly rapes a student on 4/15/12,
- Administration fully notifies football program on 4/25/12,
- Football program suspends Elliott on 4/27/12 the same day they learn Waco PD wants a cheek swab for their investigation.

From dated documents it appears football was never notified of breadth of the situation until 4/25/12. It further appears to me that that the clown show of RR, Doak, Murdock, McCraw, Martha Lou, were the problem. That's 5 senior folks in the administration that knew and did nothing. IMO they need to do time with TE. Fulking shameful!


You must be one of the attorneys sueing Baylor? It is common knowledge that a hundred employees in administration were relieved of duties after the scandal. What is your point? At least the BOR finally woke up and made serious changes.

Name one regent that resigned or one exec admin fired as a result of this scandal. Name just one.


Come over to the pay board. The mods have posted that many administrative people have been turned over since 2016. Also, many BOR members prior to 2014 are gone. The BOR that handled the 2016 scandal were just firemen putting out problems of the past. Maybe you should quit hating the school. Did you even attend Baylor?

You can't even name one outside of Athletics and Starr. Referral to the pay side is no way to live life kid. Research for yourself; ask serious questions. Baylor taught us to question.

BTW...I don't hate Baylor. I love Baylor; she's is in my genetic code so to speak. I am not a lawyer. I am a Baylor alum that's ashamed as to how our "leaders" treated victims, failed to deal with serious issues head-on, and refused to accept accountability and consequences then proclaimed "Christian Mission" when actions said otherwise. I'm happy that we're getting better, but we've still got decades of work to repair shattered lives and Baylor's reputation.


I can't help you anymore young man.

You never did.


If you consider yourself a friend of Baylor, she does not need enemies.

I'm heritage-alumni of Baylor. It's not about being an enemy; it's about stepping up and accepting accountability and consequences for all involved in our failures. Our scandal was not 100% football/athletics related. If you think I'm an enemy, go to your safe space, snowflake. Head in the sand, never question mentality is a huge reason why we are where we are. Adios.


So let me get this straight. According to SA.."friends
Of Baylor" look at this body of leaders who were
In charge of Baylor during the biggest University wide scandal (not just football), that has cost hundreds of milllions of dollars..who were reprimanded by their own FoF for meddling, conflicts, mismanagement, lack of oversight....I could go on. And then say "atta boy! Great job! Keep up the good work! Baylor is in great hands". Those are the friends.

"Enemies" of Baylor, those who step up and say..wow. These guys were asleep at the wheel. They needed a scandal that cost hundreds of millions of dollars and public black eye, and being under the public microscope and scrutiny to initiate MUCH needed reform, much of it aimed at them specifically. Maybe we can do better. We have qualified alternatives. You don't get to be a part of the problem and the solution. Those are the enemies?!

Who loves Baylor?


Nope. You misinterpret me.

Prior to 2015, the BOR were asleep at the wheel. After 2015, the BOR finally woke up and paid attention. Many of the BOR prior to 2015 were gone by 2016. Since 2016, several on the BOR have transitioned off and a hundred from the administration and athletic departments are gone. Just ask the moderators.

It seems like you and Yoak wake up everyday breathing fire and looking for a fight. Keep bashing our school and being haters if that makes you happy.
bear2be2
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SATXBear said:

Dman said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

YoakDaddy said:

SATXBear said:

Thee University said:

rileyroo said:

Here is what I believe:

1) Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies.

2) BU failed some women and didn't want the facts to come out (so they opened the university pocket books and bought their silence). For that, I say shame on our University.

3) Art was not a bad man and took for the fall for many of the university failures. He is not completely blameless, but the hysteria about him was over the top.

4) BU took chances on athletes, but the same thing is done by all universities.

The saddest part of all of this is that we will probably never know the truth. The media posted outrageous statements over and over and the public bought it. We are forever labeled as the "rape" university. Where are all of the gang rapists? Why haven't they been prosecuted?

If anything good came out of this, it is that BU finally realized that they are a major university and cannot pretend to be a vacation bible school anymore. We have real problems.

It is too bad that Briles and company cannot ever tell their story without being dragged throught the mud again. I hope he gets to coach again because I believe in second chances and I truly believe that we didn't hear the whole story. I refuse to judge someone without knowing the facts in their entirety. I would want the same if I was accused of something so egregious.
Well congratulations poindexter. You judged without FACTS in their entirety. Thanks for telling us what you believe.

#1. Blame Ian instead of the BOR.
#2. That is a wild-@$$ed guess on your part. Who failed the women? Who bought silence?
#3. Art was a bad man for not doing his entire job and bringing in a cancerous element to his team. He built it. He drove it until it overheated, pulled to the side of the road with a strange smoke wafting out from underneath the Yugo, hopped out of the green and gold car and into the burnt orange Cadillac. Unfortunately for him the Caddy never had any intention of taking him to Austin.
#4 Great. Blame it all on the other schools. Baylor has made a few mistakes over the years but for the most part either vetted the bad apples out prior to arrival or let them go after one or two strikes.

We have a chance to shed the "rape U" image you mentioned above. We are working on it but it appears we earned a great deal of it.


My point you ask? You did a lot of judging without knowing the facts in their entirety.


His items 1 and 2 are utter nonsenses and is something repeated frequently on this free board.

Not only is it judging, but also lunacy.

Not lunacy; truth. Riley's #1 and #2 are true. 1) There was a Baylor commissioned study done by Margolis-Healy in 2014 specifically outlining our T9 deficiencies and non-compliance. That's why Patty Crawford was hired. The BOFR dang sure knew. 2) There were women coming out of the shadows to report SA claims with one going as far back as 1997. You bet the checkbook was open.


And that is why Starr was fired. He refused to implement title 9 reform. PH report helped expose more problems, so people got fired. No cover up.

No shlt, Sherlock. Old news. To Riley's point, "Our board of regents knew that BU screwed up by not having an adequate Title IX office in place (and that they were partially responsible). They proceeded to clean house to distract from their inadequacies." that you said was false is definitely true as I noted above with the regents knowing about T9 non-compliance through the 2014 Margolis-Healy report. Compliance was not a top priority (it was a Tier2 priority according to depos) and they didn't hold Starr accountable for 2 years until they fired him. Yeah, the verbal PH presentation identified even more.


Wrong again. They cleaned house to get rid of people not doing their job. You really love living in the crazy conspiracy world, don't you.

Hold on there, Clueless. If we cleaned house, why are Jackson, Holmes, Murdock, McCraw, and MLS still employed? RR and TLD are riding off into the sunset with no accountability while Livingstone herself stated in a recent article, "If you look at the actual changes that have taken place on campus, the vast majority of them were not related to the athletic department," she said. "Clearly the university understood that this was a much broader issue."

Just from the timeline below for Tevin Elliott, it's documented that 5 folks in leadership knew of allegations against him and watched him for >6 months before Briles was notified of the breadth of TE's activities. And that's not to mention a BOFR that knew of T9 non-compliances in 2014 with recommendations to fix.

So we've got documentation:
- October 5, 2011 email showing Doak and RR knew TE was "assaulting young women" (note the plural used from report)
- November 7, 2011 email noting that administration (Murdock, McCraw, and Martha Lou) knew of TE's "assaults" (note plural used from report),
- November 2011 football told of "an incident" (note singular used from report-unwanted contact)
- TE allegedly rapes a student on 4/15/12,
- Administration fully notifies football program on 4/25/12,
- Football program suspends Elliott on 4/27/12 the same day they learn Waco PD wants a cheek swab for their investigation.

From dated documents it appears football was never notified of breadth of the situation until 4/25/12. It further appears to me that that the clown show of RR, Doak, Murdock, McCraw, Martha Lou, were the problem. That's 5 senior folks in the administration that knew and did nothing. IMO they need to do time with TE. Fulking shameful!


You must be one of the attorneys sueing Baylor? It is common knowledge that a hundred employees in administration were relieved of duties after the scandal. What is your point? At least the BOR finally woke up and made serious changes.

Name one regent that resigned or one exec admin fired as a result of this scandal. Name just one.


Come over to the pay board. The mods have posted that many administrative people have been turned over since 2016. Also, many BOR members prior to 2014 are gone. The BOR that handled the 2016 scandal were just firemen putting out problems of the past. Maybe you should quit hating the school. Did you even attend Baylor?

You can't even name one outside of Athletics and Starr. Referral to the pay side is no way to live life kid. Research for yourself; ask serious questions. Baylor taught us to question.

BTW...I don't hate Baylor. I love Baylor; she's is in my genetic code so to speak. I am not a lawyer. I am a Baylor alum that's ashamed as to how our "leaders" treated victims, failed to deal with serious issues head-on, and refused to accept accountability and consequences then proclaimed "Christian Mission" when actions said otherwise. I'm happy that we're getting better, but we've still got decades of work to repair shattered lives and Baylor's reputation.


I can't help you anymore young man.

You never did.


If you consider yourself a friend of Baylor, she does not need enemies.

I'm heritage-alumni of Baylor. It's not about being an enemy; it's about stepping up and accepting accountability and consequences for all involved in our failures. Our scandal was not 100% football/athletics related. If you think I'm an enemy, go to your safe space, snowflake. Head in the sand, never question mentality is a huge reason why we are where we are. Adios.


So let me get this straight. According to SA.."friends
Of Baylor" look at this body of leaders who were
In charge of Baylor during the biggest University wide scandal (not just football), that has cost hundreds of milllions of dollars..who were reprimanded by their own FoF for meddling, conflicts, mismanagement, lack of oversight....I could go on. And then say "atta boy! Great job! Keep up the good work! Baylor is in great hands". Those are the friends.

"Enemies" of Baylor, those who step up and say..wow. These guys were asleep at the wheel. They needed a scandal that cost hundreds of millions of dollars and public black eye, and being under the public microscope and scrutiny to initiate MUCH needed reform, much of it aimed at them specifically. Maybe we can do better. We have qualified alternatives. You don't get to be a part of the problem and the solution. Those are the enemies?!

Who loves Baylor?


Nope. You midoninterpret me.

Prior to 2015, BOR were asleep at the wheel. After 2015, BOR finally woke up and paid attention. Many of the BOR prior to 2015, were gone by 2016. Since 2016, several on BOR transitioned on and a hundred from the admin and athletic depts are gone. Just ask the moderators.

It seems like you and Yoak wake up everyday breathing fire and looking for fight. Keeping bashing our school and being haters if that makes you happy.
My biggest problem with Dman (and many of those in his camp) is it's a disingenuous war he's waging. You can't call for accountability in one breath and cry for Art Briles in the next. If you're for accountability and leadership reform, you have to call out leadership failures at all levels ... or else it makes all such cries look empty and conditional.

But at the end of the day, this is conditional for too many. A lot of the guys in this thread wouldn't care at all about the BoR if it hadn't decided to ax a winning football coach. And the fight they've taken up now has more to do with evening the score than actual accountability.

Reverend
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The score can't be evened because there is no accountability for the BoR. But they can still be criticized for covering their asses and ruining a man. There's not a lot of satisfaction in that, but it can damn sure be said. Anybody that's got a problem with that, too bad.
Thee University
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Reverend said:

The score can't be evened because there is no accountability for the BoR. But they can still be criticized for covering their asses and ruining a man. There's not a lot of satisfaction in that, but it can damn sure be said. Anybody that's got a problem with that, too bad.
The man ruined himself. I find it a crime that he could not do what GT did...........realize the Baylor rules and regulations. Honor them. Respect them. Play the game within them. Learn the Baylor ways and follow them.

That's all he had to do. He had the Big 12 by the tail but for whatever reason (ego, stupidity, listening to the wrong side, lobbying for the UT job, etc.) he let it all get away from him and it consumed him.

Ian should have done something but I suspect he was too weak and scared to act. Ken should have done something but he did not even know what was going on and did not want to know. It fell upon the BOR to clean up the mess. The BOR had to put on the rubber gloves and administer the enema.

That's all there is.
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
SATXBear
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Thee University said:

Reverend said:

The score can't be evened because there is no accountability for the BoR. But they can still be criticized for covering their asses and ruining a man. There's not a lot of satisfaction in that, but it can damn sure be said. Anybody that's got a problem with that, too bad.
The man ruined himself. I find it a crime that he could not do what GT did...........realize the Baylor rules and regulations. Honor them. Respect them. Play the game within them. Learn the Baylor ways and follow them.

That's all he had to do. He had the Big 12 by the tail but for whatever reason (ego, stupidity, listening to the wrong side, lobbying for the UT job, etc.) he let it all get away from him and it consumed him.

Ian should have done something but I suspect he was too weak and scared to act. Ken should have done something but he did not even know what was going on and did not want to know. It fell upon the BOR to clean up the mess. The BOR had to put on the rubber gloves and administer the enema.

That's all there is.


This is the truth. Drop the mic.
Malbec
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SATXBear said:

Thee University said:

Reverend said:

The score can't be evened because there is no accountability for the BoR. But they can still be criticized for covering their asses and ruining a man. There's not a lot of satisfaction in that, but it can damn sure be said. Anybody that's got a problem with that, too bad.
The man ruined himself. I find it a crime that he could not do what GT did...........realize the Baylor rules and regulations. Honor them. Respect them. Play the game within them. Learn the Baylor ways and follow them.

That's all he had to do. He had the Big 12 by the tail but for whatever reason (ego, stupidity, listening to the wrong side, lobbying for the UT job, etc.) he let it all get away from him and it consumed him.

Ian should have done something but I suspect he was too weak and scared to act. Ken should have done something but he did not even know what was going on and did not want to know. It fell upon the BOR to clean up the mess. The BOR had to put on the rubber gloves and administer the enema.

That's all there is.


This is the truth. Drop the mic.
Sorry, but you are wrong. His first paragraph is a complete joke. And he knows it. He knows it well.
Reverend
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How much more flesh do you jackasses want from Briles? Shut up and this endless debate will stop.
bear2be2
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Reverend said:

How much more flesh do you jackasses want from Briles? Shut up and this endless debate will stop.
It's not about Briles anymore. He's paid handsomely for his sins. It's his minions here that weep for him while ignoring his role in our mess that draw responses at this point.
Reverend
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It's the sick minions of hate that draw the responses. You all dance around your bonfire and make yourselves feel big. Shrink back in your holes and come back later when there are other bones to pick.
bear2be2
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Reverend said:

It's the sick minions of hate that draw the responses. You all dance around your bonfire and make yourselves feel big. Shrink back in your holes and come back later when there are other bones to pick.
I don't hate Art Briles at all and literally never post about him unprompted. While there are certainly exceptions, I would say most with my views of his situation are that way, so I'm not sure what minions you speak of.
ScottS
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Bring back Briles!
Stuck-In-Idaho
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Art Briles Will Always Be A Baylor Bear
Thee University
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Stuck-In-Idaho said:

Art Briles Will Always Be A Baylor Bear

With that attitude so will Dave Bliss.
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
Thee University
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ScottS said:

Bring back Briles!
Bring back Bliss!
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
Stranger
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Thee University said:

ScottS said:

Bring back Briles!
Bring back Bliss!

Ignorance is bliss.
-Thomas Gray
I'm a Bearbacker
bear2be2
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Stranger said:

Thee University said:

ScottS said:

Bring back Briles!
Bring back Bliss!

Ignorance is bliss.
-Thomas Gray

You would know.
Keyser Soze
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If Bliss had won more this same crowd would be crying about conspiracy to get Bliss and which regent provided the gun.


 
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