MaduroUTMB said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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You were doing really good until you threw out that "liked it that way". A ridiculous statement. They were clueless which is significant.

That aside, part of the reforms was full amnesty for any such conduct code violations for both victims and witnesses

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How many decades of cluelessness do they get a mulligan on before it becomes willful? 2?

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What part time volunteer served decades?

What reports do you think they received and ignored?

57Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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... They were clueless which is significant. ...

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Can you give us information that proves that they were clueless?

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For the CAB truthers - You could have stone tablets of information hand delivered from the Mountain top by Moses and they still wouldn't buy it. No one will ever prove anything to them.

If you really want to know, read this

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf

This is the report on the completion of the implementation of the 105 recommendations by Pepper. It is not written by Baylor. It is by Smith & Gomez. The majority of the recommendations are tied to specific failures by Baylor almost all related to the admin end of things.

Clueless is my choice of words, but it is appropriate. You will not find a well informed and deliberate refusal to help victims or address issues. Baylor had a cultural problem that permeated everywhere. The crass police chief Doak is the outlier - most failures were by people who wanted to help but lacked the education, training, and resources to do so. Very little of this cultural problem was defined and communicated clearly until Pepper Hamilton.

If they were clueless - did they not read the Margolis Healy Report on Baylor, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment?


Margolis Healy, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment Baylor
- September 2014
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+1.pdf
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+2.pdf

As I recall, Smith is the one whose conduct was called outrageous and unconstitutional by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.

On July 29, 2011, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the district court's denial of Smith's prosecutorial immunity claim. "No reasonable prosecutor would think that she could indefinitely detain an innocent witness pending trial without obtaining reauthorization," the Judges held. "And there can be no doubt that is what Smith intended." Relying upon their own previous experience as prosecutors, the Judges called Smith's conduct "outrageous" and unconstitutional. [Emphasis added]

Nicole Schneyder v. Gina Smith, et al
Date: August 5, 2011
Docket Number: 10-2367

you guys have gotten off into some deep issues...I am not sure what anyone is trying to say...or which side I should be on...Are we talking was BU aware of issues of conflict between our standards of morality and conduct and what various requirements were for accurately reporting incidents of crime and S/A's?

Appeared to discourage some types of crime to be reported becasue we wanted to look good to prospective students and parents as a place where certain things did not happen? or a conduct policy that prohibited Sex, alcohol and drugs...so victims of S/A's unlikely to report for fear of getting themselves in trouble?

Certainly we had some high level administrators and BOR types who had their heads in the sand about what went on at Baylor socially were they clueless maybe were they consciously indifferent or intentional in their actions maybe in some regards but there are so many moving parts that you could have one level of conduct in regard to policies, one in regard to reporting and one in regard to enforcement.

I like our moral standards despite some thinking old fashioned. I hate to think that we have to suddenly allow sex and drugs and alcohol so as not to violate a possibility victims rights in regard to how we handle SA's. I think we keep our standards and allow certain exceptions when crimes alleged? Although, would that not encourage folks who are guilty of violations to think about claiming a crime to avoid their own responsibilities?

From all the descriptions I have heard about the claimed SA's giving rise to all our scandal they all involve to some degree a violation of our standards of conduct...ironic is it not that none of the alleged crimes happen if all the parties adhered to our standards of conduct?

57Bear said:

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If they were clueless - did they not read the Margolis Healy Report on Baylor, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment?


Margolis Healy, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment Baylor
- September 2014
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+1.pdf
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+2.pdf

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Not only did they read, they implemented the most of recommendations of it. Making Title IX Coordinator a full time position and not just a shared responsibility of Judicial Affairs was one of the major point. Patty Crawford was hired not long after this report.

Pepper Hamilton was appreciably more in depth as were the problems at Baylor.

57Bear said:

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If they were clueless - did they not read the Margolis Healy Report on Baylor, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment?


Margolis Healy, Title IX Review and Clery Act Compliance Assessment Baylor
- September 2014
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+1.pdf
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Margolis+Healy+Report+Part+2.pdf

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That gets the CAB faithful fully aroused .... it does not really change anything at Baylor

Moral standards ultimately come from within from a personal commitment to Biblical standards of behavior that show obedience, by faith, to God's will for our lives. They will never totally be adhered to with outside pressure being placed on 18-22 yr olds who have freedom for the first time. Most students who participate in drugs , alcohol and pre-marital sex, were already doing those things in High School. If Baylor is having students actually sigh something thinking that will prevent risky behavior, then Baylor needs to stop deceiving itself.

So you advocate giving up?

I advocate stopping the stupid practice of signing anything. Instead, require every in coming freshman, which already may be happening, to attend a life skills training class as part of orientation.

So we hope you don't but if you do no consequences from school ?
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If you want a private bible school, go somewhere else. Students don't need mommy and daddy Baylor being Big Brother. Why not just confiscate phones twice a month. Baylor can teach Biblical principles, then let it go.

O yeah, how 'bout uniforms.

Did you go to Baylor ?

Timbear said:

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Met my wife there, her parents met there, my parents met there, my brother met his wife there, her parents met there, I have cousins who graduated from Baylor also, along with all of us, totaling about 30 Baylor grads in our family going back to 1942. You cannot police students by signing a paper. Do you really think that young adults 18-22 are not going to have sex with each other? Now, when personal behavior turns into criminal behavior, call the cops.

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Not enough.

The mission of Baylor University is to educate men and women for worldwide leadership and service by integrating academic excellence and Christian commitment within a caring community.

Chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas and affiliated with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, Baylor is both the state's oldest institution of higher learning and the world's largest Baptist university. Established to be a servant of the church and of society, Baylor seeks to fulfill its calling through excellence in teaching and research, in scholarship and publication, and in service to the community, both local and global. The vision of its founders and the ongoing commitment of generations of students and scholars are reflected in the motto inscribed on the Baylor seal: Pro Ecclesia, Pro Texana For Church, For Texas.

I am really not sure what we are arguing about...I certainly know young adults will be young adults no matter where they are...my point was you don't forget about your standards and principals because it is hard in today's world that's what is wrong with today's world.

We are a private Baptist Christian University...we want to be different and I don't think we quit holding folks to higher standards just becasue it is hard and kids will be kids.

Why do people go to Baylor who don't want to adhere to the mission and desire to keep the conduct policy why not go somewhere else?

Eball said:

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The mission of Baylor University is to educate men and women for worldwide leadership and service by integrating academic excellence and Christian commitment within a caring community.

Chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas and affiliated with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, Baylor is both the state's oldest institution of higher learning and the world's largest Baptist university. Established to be a servant of the church and of society, Baylor seeks to fulfill its calling through excellence in teaching and research, in scholarship and publication, and in service to the community, both local and global. The vision of its founders and the ongoing commitment of generations of students and scholars are reflected in the motto inscribed on the Baylor seal: Pro Ecclesia, Pro Texana For Church, For Texas.

I am really not sure what we are arguing about...I certainly know young adults will be young adults no matter where they are...my point was you don't forget about your standards and principals because it is hard in today's world that's what is wrong with today's world.

We are a private Baptist Christian University...we want to be different and I don't think we quit holding folks to higher standards just becasue it is hard and kids will be kids.

Why do people go to Baylor who don't want to adhere to the mission and desire to keep the conduct policy why not go somewhere else?

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Very well said Eball. No reason to lower the standards.

So, should students be kicked out of Baylor for having sex? For getting drunk? I want the Puritans to have the courage to answer these questions. Anyone. Anyone?

Who says Anyone is lowering or forgetting about standards? Who said that? Baylor should have a life skills class for all freshmen and go over if they want, the Biblical principles of behavior, and how Baylor expects students to act. Then, it's up to the student and God. If he or she is partying too much, they'll flunk out anyway. A signature on a piece of paper won't do it, and it might lead to untrue SA allegations to avoid being embarrassed or called out. No poster on this Forum had to sign a form promising to behave. So, why now?

I assume they are and have been. I feel certain there is a discipline formula and you get warnings and some opportunities depending on the seriousness to be on some form of probation. That's what led to us having to come up with exception to discipline when the situation involved a crime like SA. so victims and witnesses would feel free to report and talk. If we have changed our code of conduct completely someone correct me.

So biblical standards are optional in your view ?

Timbear said:

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So, should students be kicked out of Baylor for having sex? For getting drunk? I want the Puritans to have the courage to answer these questions. Anyone. Anyone?

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Don't be so obtuse. Every school has a code of conduct

Saxtbear, answer the question. Do you believe Baylor students should be kicked out of school for having sex and/or getting drunk?

Eball, answer the question! Do you believe Baylor students should be kicked out of school for having sex and/or getting drunk?

SATXBear said:

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Timbear said:

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So, should students be kicked out of Baylor for having sex? For getting drunk? I want the Puritans to have the courage to answer these questions. Anyone. Anyone?

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Don't be so obtuse.Every school has a code of conduct

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That's kind of his thing

Edit: ignore the emoji

Formula? Does Baylor decide how many times students can have sex or get drunk before they are on probation or kicked out? Does Baylor hire other students to spy and report? Talk to me , guys. Not platitudes. Yes or no.

That lifestyle was not for me because of a personal decision, not because of what Baylor says they stand for. The BOR has lied, scapegoated, covered up, tried to destroy lives. all to protect themselves. What did they sign?

Answer the questions DioN instead of your remark.

Jesus dude, you're losing it moreso than usual

Just like I thought, you won't answer the questions, neither will you're buddies. Just throw shade to get a laugh. You proved you're BOR worthy.

DioNoZeus said:

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SATXBear said:

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Timbear said:

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So, should students be kicked out of Baylor for having sex? For getting drunk? I want the Puritans to have the courage to answer these questions. Anyone. Anyone?

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Don't be so obtuse.Every school has a code of conduct

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That's kind of his thing

Edit: ignore the emoji

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Pretty much all of Tim's posts are moronic. He probably needs to go on ignore.

Timbear said:

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Just like I thought, you won't answer the questions, neither will you're buddies. Just throw shade to get a laugh. You proved you're BOR worthy.

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The BOR are in your head...lol. How old are you?