Gameday Thread: KSU (13-1; 2-0) at #19 Baylor (10-4; 0-2)

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

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Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

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Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

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I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

bear2be2 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Next 3 games look winnable. WVU, OSU and TT.

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So were the last two.

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K State is a lot better than anyone thought they would be preseason.

bear2be2 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Tang built KSU through the portal. Dykes did same with TCu in football. We gotta buy some studs to compete.

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Scott Drew has had more impact transfers than any coach in America. We just flopped on our two transfers this year ... though Bridges played pretty well today.

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I remember Bridges playing well at WVU. It's strange they he hasn't yet brought that to Waco. Although, as you mention, there have been some positive signs lately.

Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

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Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

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5/8 of the "8 Starters" from the championship team were transfers. Even if we haven't mastered it, I'm not sure any other school has excelled more at using the portal

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

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Not just Div 1: Freddie Gillespie was amazing. Dale Bonner has been great in spurts. If he can bring that to every game consistently, it will help out significantly.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Next 3 games look winnable. WVU, OSU and TT.

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So were the last two.

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K State is a lot better than anyone thought they would be preseason.

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K-State, like us, is a half team, and that will catch up with them eventually. But people underrated their talent in the preseason.

Nowell has become an elite point guard and Keyontae Johnson's a future first-rounder. Add in some solid role players round them like Nae'Qwan Tomlin, Desi Sills, David N'Guessan and Camryn Carter, and you've got a very competitive team.

Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

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Those guys were all Division I transfers.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

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Not just Div 1: Freddie Gillespie was amazing. Dale Bonner has been great in spurts. If he can bring that to every game consistently, it will help out significantly.

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I almost went back and edited my post to include those two. I also forgot Manu Lecomte, though I never cared much for his game.

And once you look at the JUCO guys we've brought in, that list grows even longer.

To suggest we haven't used transfers to our advantage is absurd.

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

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But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Futbol Bear said:

---

How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Futbol Bear said:

---

How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

---

I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

We have always struggled with Kansas state. We'd lose games to Bruce Weber for the fun of it.

Nice to see TCU run out of luck for a change.

Our fanbase is so utterly clueless when it comes to basketball. It would be maddening if it hadn't been so remarkably consistent for the past 20+ years.

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

---

I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

---

Exactly this, the natty role players (Flagler Mayer Thamba) never developed past being role players. We failed to bring in leadership and talent to run the offense and defense this year. We've got two busts in loveday and Turner. This has just been a bad two years of roster management. Hopefully the ball handling guards we're developing and have recruited can set the ship right next year. Otherwise drew needs to prioritize transfers with age and experience because bringing in WVU and BYU bench warmers is not working.

There are great players and pieces on this team, but they aren't the right ones. This team is all role players at this point either due to age or talent ceiling.

IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Futbol Bear said:

---

How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

---

I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

---

Exactly this, the natty role players (Flagler Mayer Thamba) never developed past being role players. We failed to bring in leadership and talent to run the offense and defense this year. We've got two busts in loveday and Turner. This has just been a bad two years of roster management. Hopefully the ball handling guards we're developing and have recruited can set the ship right next year. Otherwise drew needs to prioritize transfers with age and experience because bringing in WVU and BYU bench warmers is not working.

There are great players and pieces on this team, but they aren't the right ones. This team is all role players at this point either due to age or talent ceiling.

---

Flagler isn't a role player. He's one of the best and most efficient guard scorers in the Big 12 and country. With a better team around him, people would be marveling at the season he's currently putting together.

This team has a lot of problems. He's not one of them.

bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

---

I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

---

Exactly this, the natty role players (Flagler Mayer Thamba) never developed past being role players. We failed to bring in leadership and talent to run the offense and defense this year. We've got two busts in loveday and Turner. This has just been a bad two years of roster management. Hopefully the ball handling guards we're developing and have recruited can set the ship right next year. Otherwise drew needs to prioritize transfers with age and experience because bringing in WVU and BYU bench warmers is not working.

There are great players and pieces on this team, but they aren't the right ones. This team is all role players at this point either due to age or talent ceiling.

---

Flagler isn't a role player. He's one of the best and most efficient guard scorers in the Big 12 and country. With a better team around him, people would be marveling at the season he's currently putting together.

This team has a lot of problems. He's not one of them.

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Agreed. Was re-watching the title game against Gonzaga from 2021 last night, and those guys were right there making it happen.

Flagler is smart and hard-working. So are a lot of the other players, but Flagler has carried the team at times.

Mayer was coming along, showing real growth. Wish we could have kept him.

Flo is Flo. Yes he makes mistakes but he also has led the team at times, especially on defense. Take him out of the lineup and we don't have those wins against the Zags and Bruins this year.

I really don't see a simple way to change this team into the one that won the Natty. But I like our players and trust our coaches.

Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Futbol Bear said:

---

How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

---

I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

---

Exactly this, the natty role players (Flagler Mayer Thamba) never developed past being role players. We failed to bring in leadership and talent to run the offense and defense this year. We've got two busts in loveday and Turner. This has just been a bad two years of roster management. Hopefully the ball handling guards we're developing and have recruited can set the ship right next year. Otherwise drew needs to prioritize transfers with age and experience because bringing in WVU and BYU bench warmers is not working.

There are great players and pieces on this team, but they aren't the right ones. This team is all role players at this point either due to age or talent ceiling.

---

Flagler isn't a role player. He's one of the best and most efficient guard scorers in the Big 12 and country. With a better team around him, people would be marveling at the season he's currently putting together.

This team has a lot of problems. He's not one of them.

---

Agreed. Was re-watching the title game against Gonzaga from 2021 last night, and those guys were right there making it happen.

Flagler is smart and hard-working. So are a lot of the other players, but Flagler has carried the team at times.

Mayer was coming along, showing real growth. Wish we could have kept him.

Flo is Flo. Yes he makes mistakes but he also has led the team at times, especially on defense. Take him out of the lineup and we don't have those wins against the Zags and Bruins this year.

I really don't see a simple way to change this team into the one that won the Natty. But I like our players and trust our coaches.

---

We essentially traded Matt Mayer for Jalen Bridges, because we agreed to part ways with Mayer around the time Bridges announced he was transferring here. Right now, we got the raw end of that deal, although we do have Jalen for a few more years after this one.

The thing that's really hurting our roster construction this year is I believe the coaching staff thought we'd have Jeremy Sochan for two years. He developed more quickly than they thought he would (we always knew Kendall Brown was a one-and-done), and Josh Lohner, the guy we brought in to replace Sochan, has not been up to the task whatsoever.

Think how much better this team would look with Sochan on the wing and EJ down low. Unfortunately that's fantasy, and the reality is we have who we have.

And what if KB starting at the wing and Cryer coming off the bench in a more comfortable 6th man role as a microwave scorer?

Crawfoso1973 said:

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And what if KB starting at the wing and Cryer coming off the bench in a more comfortable 6th man role as a microwave scorer?

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Barring an injury, I don't think there was ever any chance of KB being back this season. Additionally, I think we might have lost Cryer to the portal if he wasn't going to be a starter this season. He's had horrific injury luck, yet again, but despite his defensive shortcomings, we're a better team with Cryer than without him.

Mitch Henessey said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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And what if KB starting at the wing and Cryer coming off the bench in a more comfortable 6th man role as a microwave scorer?

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Barring an injury, I don't think there was ever any chance of KB being back this season. Additionally, I think we might have lost Cryer to the portal if he wasn't going to be a starter this season. He's had horrific injury luck, yet again, but despite his defensive shortcomings, we're a better team with Cryer than without him.

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Yeah I know, even when his draft status started to slide,it was always a foregone conclusion he was gone. As for Cryer due to his physical and defensive limitations and one-dimensional skill set I think he is much better as a 6th man for a program with final 4 aspirations. But you are right he might not have accepted that role.

Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Futbol Bear said:

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How does a program of Baylor's caliber have 2 portal additions to this roster that are mediocre at best?

---

Seems we haven't really mastered how to use the portal to our advantage.

---

Are we pretending that Makai Mason, Mario Kegler, Royce O'Neale, Davion Mitchell, MaCio Teague, Adam Flagler, JTT, etc., etc., didn't/don't exist?

We missed on Bridges and Lohner. But Scott Drew's track record with transfers -- both from the JUCO and Division I ranks -- is remarkable.

---

I said 'portal', not 'recruiting'. Different tool.

We'll get there.

---

Those guys were all Division I transfers.

---

But the portal is different. Not saying we won't get there, just it's a different tool.

---

You guys are reaching.

Tang didn't build his roster through the portal by choice. He used the portal because he had no choice. Almost the entire K-State roster left when he was hired.

And with the exception of Keyontae Johnson, none of the transfers they added were signficantly more accomplished than Bridges or Lohner.

We had a couple of holes and filled them through the portal like everyone wanted us to. The players we added just weren't as good as advertised/we needed them to be. Those things happen. And they certainly don't speak to any sort of concerning trend where transfer talent is concerned.

---

Not talking about Tang. We are obviously missing some pieces on defense. Even today the guys had flashes of being good, but there were also periods where they just.were missing what was going on.

We got used to a team that was "on" 85 to 95 percent of the game. We have a team this year that is "on" 60 to 70 percent of the game.

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I think it's much simpler than that. This team just isn't as good as the teams we've been fielding the past several years.

We have bad individual defenders who come together to play bad team defense. And several of the guys we needed to be impact players -- including our two transfers -- aren't capable of being that consistently.

It is what it is. We swung and missed. There's no need to make one-off mistakes in talent evaluation into something larger than they are.

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Exactly this, the natty role players (Flagler Mayer Thamba) never developed past being role players. We failed to bring in leadership and talent to run the offense and defense this year. We've got two busts in loveday and Turner. This has just been a bad two years of roster management. Hopefully the ball handling guards we're developing and have recruited can set the ship right next year. Otherwise drew needs to prioritize transfers with age and experience because bringing in WVU and BYU bench warmers is not working.

There are great players and pieces on this team, but they aren't the right ones. This team is all role players at this point either due to age or talent ceiling.

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Flagler isn't a role player. He's one of the best and most efficient guard scorers in the Big 12 and country. With a better team around him, people would be marveling at the season he's currently putting together.

This team has a lot of problems. He's not one of them.

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Agreed. Was re-watching the title game against Gonzaga from 2021 last night, and those guys were right there making it happen.

Flagler is smart and hard-working. So are a lot of the other players, but Flagler has carried the team at times.

Mayer was coming along, showing real growth. Wish we could have kept him.

Flo is Flo. Yes he makes mistakes but he also has led the team at times, especially on defense. Take him out the lineup and we don't have those wins against the Zags and Bruins this year.

I really don't see a simple way to change this team into the one that won the Natty. But I like our players and trust our coaches.

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It's difficult to see this team winning a natty or even getting to the Final Four. They may still surprise us as they have not yet peaked.

Spot on about Flo: he is capable of doing great things; he just doesn't do it often enough. In the last 2 games vs Gonzaga, he effectively shut down Drew Timme, who some pundits still describe as one of the best in the country. Flo also did some great things vs Villanova & in other big games. I think he reminds me a little of Mayer, who was also often great, but inconsistently. Matt is a better shooter.

That hurt. They did think Sochan would be two year player. Sochan was underrated and early on there were obvious signs and rumblings that he was a legit nba player. But until mid year.. going early after first year was a surprise.

Sochan and JTT with this group would probably win the conference.. even with our unbalanced guard situation. Sochan would be the best defender in cbb and JTT would be right up there as well. Hurts that Grimes is being red shirted but its the process and I understand it. He is a plus athlete and would probably be one of our best defenders by this time in the season. Looked to have a nice handle too.

There were rumors of just that had a more dedicated spot not be guaranteed. But you're right.. used as a 6th man for scoring burst would be ideal. Has to find a way to step up the defense. While limited.. it does not have to be this bad.