Gameday Thread: #11 Baylor (16-5; 5-3) at #10 Texas (17-4; 6-2)

Johnny Bear said:

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DanaDane said:

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I always hate the sickness excuses, injury excuses, etc. but there is no doubt Love would have been valuable tonight.

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I thought the same thing throughout the game. Love could've really been an X factor for us in a game like that. Bonner just gives us next to zero in the offensive end.

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He didn't give us much defensively tonight either

We almost beat them in Austin playing a very poor game. We will return the favor in Waco.

The reality is that we do not have the big we need.
Flamba is a liability. I can't imagine how good this team would be with everyday John.

What's wrong with Langston? Needed him tonight

BaylorBear2019 said:

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What's wrong with Langston? Needed him tonight

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Hip contusion

Any word on how long?

Watching ISU v Tech… so many empty seats. May not have enough fans to rush the court if they pull it out

DancinBear09 said:

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We are just so damn one dimensional. If our guards aren't playing well then we aren't winning. We have absolutely ZERO post game and we are unable to play man defense to save our lives. Just frustrating as hell. We should have beaten the breaks off Texas tonight if we played like we did against Kansas.

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Shoot, forget about how we played against KU - had we just hit the layups and bunnies we missed, we win easily.

Haven't heard

TTech actually pulled the game out in OT over ISU. Now I'm even more PO'd we lost tonight.

Such a frustrating loss. Not because we deserved to win, but because we were right there at the end despite that.

That 3 by Key after Carr's make was inexcusable. Dude, you're not Luka Doncic. You're closer to the NC State version of Al Freeman right now.

This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

Pissed away first place for now

Maybe will give them a little More hunger

Been living in the edge. Clearly worn out. No Love didn't help

Even if Yves Missi reclassifies to '23 we need to go snag a big in the Portal.

hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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Bridges was 6 of 10 with most of those coming in the paint. He's our easy offense.

But our guards are shooters. They have to shoot the ball better. They've been bad as a collective three of the last seven games. That can't happen with the makeup of this team.

That said, I'm not panicking. We played like crap and took a top-10 team to the wire on the road. It's not the end of the world. Just a frustrating missed opportunity.

hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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You can jump off the bandwagon now if you want. We won't miss you.

hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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Nothing is easy offensively bc it's the Big 12. We have the #2 offense in the NCAA… imagine how other fan bases feel

hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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Hopefully keynote reads this board. Doesn't seem like the kinda dude that folds under expectations. Hopefully he's harder in himself than we are in him. I would be.

His expectations have to be higher than these performances.

hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

DanaDane said:

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The way I'm gonna look at this:

From Monday to Monday, we played Kansas, Arkansas and Texas. We came out of it 2-1. That's a pretty good stretch in my mind.

Don't hate me.

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What sucks is losing 2 Games at home by 3 Points.

Still totally control Our own destiny

Johnny Bear said:

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hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

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His free throws have improved

Flo still our best FT guy and should shoot the technicals

Johnny Bear said:

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hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

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I just get tired of hearing Fran say, "He can make that shot," after every ill-advised, low-percentage force.

I want to be like, "Yeah, he can make it at 38 percent from the field and 34 percent from 3."

George is supremely talented, but any competent college guard who averages 13 shots per game will score a lot of points. At some point, I want to see his decision-making and efficiency improve.

Johnny Bear said:

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hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

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I'm truly starting to wonder about the 5 star, projected NBA lottery guys who you know are only gonna be in a program for one year in general. Cal made it work at UK back in the early one-and-done days with Cousins and Davis but I'm not sure it's been that successful overall for most programs. It generally takes half a season to adjust, if they can, and so in the end you get maybe a half season of play from them. With the transfer portal, you can find someone who has actually produced at the college level and that you know can be successful. Sometimes those transfers have multiple years left. I'm not so sure I wouldn't be more focused on transfer portal types than unproven high school kids you know you will have for only 1 year.

NOTE: My comments aren't specifically about KG. Just the concept of the 5 star, one and done types.

DanaDane said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

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I'm truly starting to wonder about the 5 star, projected NBA lottery guys who you know are only gonna be in a program for one year in general. Cal made it work at UK back in the early one-and-done days with Cousins and Davis but I'm not sure it's been that successful overall for most programs. It generally takes half a season to adjust, if they can, and so in the end you get maybe a half season of play from them. With the transfer portal, you can find someone who has actually produced at the college level and that you know can be successful. Sometimes those transfers have multiple years left. I'm not so sure I wouldn't be more focused on transfer portal types than kids you know you will have for only 1 year.

NOTE: My comments aren't specifically about KG. Just the concept of the 5 star, one and done types.

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I said this same thing last year and got ripped a new one. I stand by those opinions, though.

Yeah, I'm not saying 5 stars are no good or anything like that, just as you likely didn't. I'm just saying as a coach, I'm not so sure that you can build a team consistently with that much turnover and insufficient time to actually help them develop within your team's concept. Which is likely what you were saying too.

Fre3dombear said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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hitmanmw said:

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This team has absolutely nothing inside. So sick of it. Nothing is easy offensively. Another classic 5-18 from George. I've had it with his act.

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It would be easier to take games like this from KG if you could just chalk it up to him being a freshman who is learning and is going to keep getting better and better in the coming seasons, but while the part about him being a freshman is obviously true, we all know he's gone after this season. For all the talk about how "NBA ready" he is, it would be nice to see more consistency and especially more intelligence displayed regarding his shot selection.

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His free throws have improved

Flo still our best FT guy and should shoot the technicals

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DanaDane said:

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Yeah, I'm not saying 5 stars are no good or anything like that, just as you likely didn't. I'm just saying as a coach, I'm not so sure that you can build a team consistently with that much turnover and insufficient time to actually help them develop within your team's concept. Which is likely what you were saying too.

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They're good. I just don't want to build my program with them.

I never want a freshman leading my team in shot attempts. Any team that is leaning on freshmen that heavily is going to be too inconsistent to win a championship.

I want to get old and stay old. You win championships in college basketball with 21- and 22-year-old men, not 18-year-old kids.

And before anyone jumps in -- I'm not saying I'd trade KG (a 5 star) for Lohner (transfer with multiple years left).

bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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And before anyone jumps in -- I'm not saying I'd trade KG (a 5 star) for Lohner (transfer with multiple years left).

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Obviously. Haha.

But any sane person would trade a freshman Keyonte George for a junior Butler or Mitchell.

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Selfishly, I'd like both (the solid transfer supplemented with the 5 star). But therein lies the conundrum. If you get the 5 star, you're not as likely to get the 2-3 year transfer since that guy is often looking to better his position rather than continue playing a role that likely was one of the reasons he departed his current school in the first place. Most are not gonna put themselves in a situation to transfer to a school and end up with less playing time, less of a profile role, etc.

DanaDane said:

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bear2be2 said:

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DanaDane said:

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And before anyone jumps in -- I'm not saying I'd trade KG (a 5 star) for Lohner (transfer with multiple years left).

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Obviously. Haha.

But any sane person would trade a freshman Keyonte George for a junior Butler or Mitchell.

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Selfishly, I'd like both (the solid transfer supplemented with the 5 star). But therein lies the conundrum. If you get the 5 star, you're not as likely to get the 2-3 year transfer since that guy is often looking to better his position rather than continue playing a role that likely was one of the reasons he departed his current school in the first place.

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Players get better with development and teams get better when they grow together. Teams that rely heavily on freshman have about three months to do what older teams have years to do. That's why only one has won a national title in the last 15-plus years.

We've had five teams with one-and-done type talents on them. Here were the outcomes ...

2010-11 -- 18-13 (no postseason)
2011-12 -- 30-8 (Elite Eight; but Quincy Miller was our fourth or fifth option)
2012-13 -- 24-14 (NIT championship)
2021-22 -- 27-7 (Lost in second round)
2022-23 -- ???

All of our best teams have been led by veterans that grew for multiple years in our program. I don't think that's a coincidence.

And that's not to say 5-star freshmen are bad. I just think the commitment you have to make to those players in terms of usage isn't worth the cost, considering how inconsistent most of them are likely to be. I want juniors and seniors leading my teams and freshmen growing into juniors and seniors.

Yeah, that is the key point that most of the media miss when they talk about our Natty team. Not only were they all older, but guys like Teague, Mitchell and Flag transferred during the old process whereby they had to sit out. So while a lot of people remembered Butler, Mitchell and Teague had played together on the COVID shortened year, they didn't remember the fact all of them had practiced together (along with Vital) even longer. As had JTT, who had practiced with the '20 COVID year team.

DanaDane said:

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Yeah, that is the key point that most of the media miss when they talk about our Natty team. Not only were they all older, but guys like Teague, Mitchell and Flag transferred during the old process whereby they had to sit out. So while a lot of people remembered Butler, Mitchell and Teague had played together on the COVID shortened year, they didn't remember the fact all of them had practiced together (along with Vital) even longer. As had JTT, who had practiced with the '20 COVID year team.

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In a perfect world pre-transfer portal, the "get old stay old" model won us a national title. But the transfer portal turned everything upside down because the quality transfers are going to want to play immediately instead of sit out a year. As per usual, Drew is ahead of the curve with getting one-and-dones the past 2 recruiting cycles and mixing them in with transfers and 4 year players. Gotta credit Drew for pivoting and embracing this new reality.