Will be interesting to see how Drew uses the zone going forward as in is this going to be our primary defense as it once was years ago, or will it just be used in certain situations(?). Obviously our man defense has been repeatedly inadequate this season.

100%. They bricked several wide open 3s against us. Other teams would shread our zone.

The problem is aside from Houston the teams ahead on the schedule we really can't zone. I'd zone Houston, maybe even TCU. After that it's just asking to get shredded from 3. Even WV has had stretches where they go unconscious from 3.

IowaBear said:

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The problem is aside from Houston the teams ahead on the schedule we really can't zone. I'd zone Houston, maybe even TCU. After that it's just asking to get shredded from 3. Even WV has had stretches where they go unconscious from 3.

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We completely flummoxed Iowa State with the zone. And we could use it in spurts successfully against Tech and this year's Kansas team.

The only teams we can't zone at all are BYU and Texas. TCU would be tough, too, because of the way they run and the way their bigs pass to one another, but Tennison is their only real 3-point threat.

As strong as this league is, there aren't a ton of elite offensive teams in it ... and even fewer great shooting teams. We're one of the few and fortunately we don't have to defend ourselves.

Yep watch this sequence

Hate the zone. Defensive skills are less athletic and more intensity, commit and effort.

Zone can be effective by being disruptive over short periods.

bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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The problem is aside from Houston the teams ahead on the schedule we really can't zone. I'd zone Houston, maybe even TCU. After that it's just asking to get shredded from 3. Even WV has had stretches where they go unconscious from 3.

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We completely flummoxed Iowa State with the zone. And we could use it in spurts successfully against Tech and this year's Kansas team.

The only teams we can't zone at all are BYU and Texas. TCU would be tough, too, because of the way they run and the way their bigs pass to one another, but Tennison is their only real 3-point threat.

As strong as this league is, there aren't a ton of elite offensive teams in it ... and even fewer great shooting teams. We're one of the few and fortunately we don't have to defend ourselves.

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Byu has like 1 guy that can shoot 3s.

Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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The problem is aside from Houston the teams ahead on the schedule we really can't zone. I'd zone Houston, maybe even TCU. After that it's just asking to get shredded from 3. Even WV has had stretches where they go unconscious from 3.

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We completely flummoxed Iowa State with the zone. And we could use it in spurts successfully against Tech and this year's Kansas team.

The only teams we can't zone at all are BYU and Texas. TCU would be tough, too, because of the way they run and the way their bigs pass to one another, but Tennison is their only real 3-point threat.

As strong as this league is, there aren't a ton of elite offensive teams in it ... and even fewer great shooting teams. We're one of the few and fortunately we don't have to defend ourselves.

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Byu has like 1 guy that can shoot 3s.

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Huh? They have 7 different guys shooting 34%+ with over 50 attempts this season.

Mitch Henessey said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IowaBear said:

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The problem is aside from Houston the teams ahead on the schedule we really can't zone. I'd zone Houston, maybe even TCU. After that it's just asking to get shredded from 3. Even WV has had stretches where they go unconscious from 3.

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We completely flummoxed Iowa State with the zone. And we could use it in spurts successfully against Tech and this year's Kansas team.

The only teams we can't zone at all are BYU and Texas. TCU would be tough, too, because of the way they run and the way their bigs pass to one another, but Tennison is their only real 3-point threat.

As strong as this league is, there aren't a ton of elite offensive teams in it ... and even fewer great shooting teams. We're one of the few and fortunately we don't have to defend ourselves.

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Byu has like 1 guy that can shoot 3s.

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Huh? They have 7 different guys shooting 34%+ with over 50 attempts this season.

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That's pretty average. Compare that to baylor with 5 guys or so At 40% or more. Just saying it's not like thwyre an elite 3 point shooting team. They have mainly Knell and the others are statistically a good bit lower and wouldn't be in our top 5

Even we been feast or famine in conference

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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100%. They bricked several wide open 3s against us. Other teams would shread our zone.

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Some other teams would. You can zone half this league and be fine. Pretty much all of the defense-first teams can be zoned.

Drew has done a good job the last several weeks of using the zone strategically against the teams most susceptible to its strengths and manning those with shooters.

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Do you think Houston is one of those defense first teams the zone would work well against. Despite what happened to them in Lawrence, I am concerned about that one. That is probably one of the toughest games remaining on our schedule even though it's at home.

We have 5 guys shooting at 40% or more from 3? I have not seen or heard that stat anywhere. I remember in 2021 hearing that repeatedly during almost every game. At times it was 6 players. But that was the natty team. So far as I know, we haven't been that good shooting 3s since then.

Thanks for the clarification. Those numbers are more reasonable and they are still good.

I wouldn't say I love it but I'm very glad they went to it. Our man D was in general getting shredded this year.

Against OU we ran it good.

Against some teams we may go mainly man with some zone sprinkled in and against others mainly zone with some man sprinkled in. We will see.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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100%. They bricked several wide open 3s against us. Other teams would shread our zone.

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Some other teams would. You can zone half this league and be fine. Pretty much all of the defense-first teams can be zoned.

Drew has done a good job the last several weeks of using the zone strategically against the teams most susceptible to its strengths and manning those with shooters.

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Do you think Houston is one of those defense first teams the zone would work well against. Despite what happened to them in Lawrence, I am concerned about that one. That is probably one of the toughest games remaining on our schedule even though it's at home.

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I do think Houston can be zoned. They've got a couple of shooters -- LJ Cryer being the most dangerous -- but they're not a great offensive team, especially if you can keep Shead out of the lane off the dribble.

BearFan33 said:

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I wouldn't say I love it but I'm very glad they went to it. Our man D was in general getting shredded this year.

Against OU we ran it good.

Against some teams we may go mainly man with some zone sprinkled in and against others mainly zone with some man sprinkled in. We will see.

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I like that we've gotten to a point where we can and will mix and match depending on the matchup and game flow. I've always thought that was the best route for this team, which is better in man than last year's but still struggles mightily with the dribble drive and pick-and-roll.

And the big thing our zone does is keep Missi in the paint, where he's an absolute menace, and off the perimeter, where he really (and understandably) struggles to stay in front of guys.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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100%. They bricked several wide open 3s against us. Other teams would shread our zone.

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Some other teams would. You can zone half this league and be fine. Pretty much all of the defense-first teams can be zoned.

Drew has done a good job the last several weeks of using the zone strategically against the teams most susceptible to its strengths and manning those with shooters.

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Do you think Houston is one of those defense first teams the zone would work well against. Despite what happened to them in Lawrence, I am concerned about that one. That is probably one of the toughest games remaining on our schedule even though it's at home.

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Yes, they can. If they go that way, the issue will be a very tight focus on rebounding. Houston wins games by defensive intensity and a fanatical commitment to crashing the boards. Coaches like to say its not, but rebounding out of the zone is a little different. They have some okay offensive shooters but outside of LJ (who is also somewhat streaky in conference), the others are hit and miss.

The most important thing is that game is Dennis not losing his mind with careless plays. He has skip pass ability to break down their defensive concepts. If the team takes care of the ball and hits the open 3s (corner 3s will be there all day) they have a pretty good chance.

bear2be2 said:

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BearFan33 said:

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I wouldn't say I love it but I'm very glad they went to it. Our man D was in general getting shredded this year.

Against OU we ran it good.


Against some teams we may go mainly man with some zone sprinkled in and against others mainly zone with some man sprinkled in. We will see.

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I like that we've gotten to a point where we can and will mix and match depending on the matchup and game flow. I've always thought that was the best route for this team, which is better in man than last year's but still struggles mightily with the dribble drive and pick-and-roll.

And the big thing our zone does is keep Missi in the paint, where he's an absolute menace, and off the perimeter, where he really (and understandably) struggles to stay in front of guys.

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He has great feet and does not struggle to stay in front of guys on the perimeter. All players mildly bump each other on the perimeter. It's just that Missi is so big he's always whistled for it when he does it.

He is our only defender that excels in man to man defense, because he's the only one that knows when to switch and when to help. He has a high basketball IQ.

I disagree, I do think Missi does struggle when matched up with quicker players on the perimeter. He takes bad angles and gets his lateral footwork crossed up. Josh O is actually much better in that situation. Missi is obviously a freak athlete but still raw and learning some of the fundamentals of the game. Agree with the IQ comment, he is a sponge who improves exponentially every time he's out there.

Mitch Henessey said:

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historian said:

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We have 5 guys shooting at 40% or more from 3? I have not seen or heard that stat anywhere. I remember in 2021 hearing that repeatedly during almost every game. At times it was 6 players. But that was the natty team. So far as I know, we haven't been that good shooting 3s since then.

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We don't. The poster who claimed that has a history of making up whatever "facts" suit his narrative.

Of our players who have attempted at least 50 3s (a somewhat arbitrary threshold, I'll admit, but it works), here are their percentages:

Langston Love - 49.3% on 71 attempts
Jayden Nunn - 44.0% on 75 attempts
Jalen Bridges - 40.2% on 112 attempts
RayJ Dennis - 39.2% on 74 attempts
Ja'Kobe Walter - 33.3% on 138 attempts

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Lmao. I said 5 guys or so and you post 4 and using your arbitrary 50 attempts. Geez.

WHOOPS!!! My freakin bad

Everything I said is still correct and I approve this message.

Lmao

historian said:

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We have 5 guys shooting at 40% or more from 3? I have not seen or heard that stat anywhere. I remember in 2021 hearing that repeatedly during almost every game. At times it was 6 players. But that was the natty team. So far as I know, we haven't been that good shooting 3s since then.

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Dude. We were #1 in the nation this year for weeks. Out of 350 teams or whatever. Yeah we've sucked a lot in conference but seriously?

https://ibb.co/DtYxNr3

Crawfoso1973 said:

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I disagree, I do think Missi does struggle when matched up with quicker players on the perimeter. He takes bad angles and gets his lateral footwork crossed up. Josh O is actually much better in that situation. Missi is obviously a freak athlete but still raw and learning some of the fundamentals of the game. Agree with the IQ comment, he is a sponge who improves exponentially every time he's out there.

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Agreed. Josh's defensive positioning and lateral movement is much better as a switch man.

Missi is a much better rim protector, but he's always chasing on the perimeter and is usually late.

Yes we were #1 when we were playing a bunch of cupcakes. Those numbers have dropped considerably since conference play began because there are no gimmes in the Big 12. Our opponents tend to be much better on defense since we started playing in the Foster.

No date provided but my guess is that is from December not this month.

No one in Big XII play has shut us down defensively. We were ice cold in a couple of games missing wide open look after wide open look and played loose with the ball in a few others. Kansas was credited with 17 steals and Bill Self said after the game we just handed them the ball 3 or 4 times.

historian said:

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No date provided but my guess is that is from December not this month.

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It's from after the last game just fwiw

BUCANDOIT82 said:

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No one in Big XII play has shut us down defensively. We were ice cold in a couple of games missing wide open look after wide open look and played loose with the ball in a few others. Kansas was credited with 17 steals and Bill Self said after the game we just handed them the ball 3 or 4 times.

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Kansas State shut us down. We were atrocious in every conceivable offensive category in Manhattan.

That is surprising