Because IMO one-and-done players should be used to supplement a roster, not carry a roster.

I think you just made Bear2s point. I think (correct me if I'm wrong Bear2) that he's saying we're using 1 and dones as vocal points of the team. Not as supplemental pieces. 1 and dones can absolutely work as supplement pieces. There's really no evidence that they can be vocal points and carry teams in March. I think that's his point. We seem to be doing it backwards in regards to 1 n Dones

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Because IMO one-and-done players should be used to supplement a roster, not carry a roster.

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I would agree that that is the best use for one-and-done players. But those players don't sign with schools to be supplemental players. Generally speaking, they view themselves as stars and want star money/minutes/usage.

And I would also argue that sophomore and junior transfers make better role players than freshman, too. So you're still better off collecting experience.

If your goal is contending for championships, one-year players (transfers and freshmen) only make sense if you think they're the final piece needed for a championship roster. Otherwise those minutes and resources would be better used on players you can build with.

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Because IMO one-and-done players should be used to supplement a roster, not carry a roster.

---

I would agree that that is the best use for one-and-done players. But those players don't sign with schools to be supplemental players. Generally speaking, they view themselves as stars and want star money/minutes/usage.

And I would also argue that sophomore and junior transfers make better role players than freshman, too. So you're still better off collecting experience.

If your goal is contending for championships, one-year players (transfers and freshmen) only make sense if you think they're the final piece needed for a championship roster. Otherwise those minutes and resources would be better used on players you can build with.

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Not so sure about the part in bold. All of our last one-and-done guys had that role-player mindset....Sochan, KB, Missi, Walter. Keyonte was the only one who I thought wanting to be the star of the show. CSD has done a great job finding one-and-done guys who fit our culture.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Because IMO one-and-done players should be used to supplement a roster, not carry a roster.

---

I would agree that that is the best use for one-and-done players. But those players don't sign with schools to be supplemental players. Generally speaking, they view themselves as stars and want star money/minutes/usage.

And I would also argue that sophomore and junior transfers make better role players than freshman, too. So you're still better off collecting experience.

If your goal is contending for championships, one-year players (transfers and freshmen) only make sense if you think they're the final piece needed for a championship roster. Otherwise those minutes and resources would be better used on players you can build with.

---

Not so sure about the part in bold. All of our last one-and-done guys had that role-player mindset....Sochan, KB, Missi, Walter. Keyonte was the only one who I thought wanting to be the star of the show. CSD has done a great job finding one-and-done guys who fit our culture.

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Role players don't play 30-plus minutes and/or lead a team in field goal attempts.

And Sochan and Missi weren't projected to be one-and-dones, so they're not the types of players I'm talking about.

Of the guys who were projected to be one-year players (Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Isaiah Austin, Kendall Brown, Keyonte George and Walter) only Jones and Brown were particularly deferential players, and that had more to do with their personalities and positions than anything else.

All of the others, Walter included, aggressively looked for their shot. That's not to say Ja'Kobe was selfish because he wasn't. But he wasn't a role player either.

He played shooting guard. By definition, shooting guards shoot. He didn't take bad shots or play hero ball though. He played within the team framework.

I do agree with your point on culture fit. Aside from Austin, who by his own admission was a menace as a freshman, all of our five-star freshmen have been positive representatives of our program. Even George, who I wasn't a huge fan of, was a good kid.

But my issue with one-and-done freshmen has never been about character or talent. All of those guys were good, solid players for us. My problem is that none (except for Sochan ironically) were as good or polished as we needed them to be, given their usage, to field a championship team.

As a pragmatist, I just don't see much value in devoting significant resources to one-year players who are not likely ready to be stars.

There are 22 5-star recruits per year. Does that mean each team that gets one automatically makes the Sweet 16?

No, not enough room, obviously.

Ask Kentucky.

It would be interesting to compare recruiting classes by identifying 5-stars and the following year Tournament results.

Drew just needs to figure out the right formula.

The Clemson game was just a crazy bad shooting game. Most of the 3 point misses were uncontested (it was as if the Clemson defense resembled a mid-major). They picked up quick that the team was cold and let them shoot from deep almost at-will.

38.9% FG
25.0% 3Pt
61.5% FT

It's as if someone slipped them a roofie in their lunch beverages.

broncko said:

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There are 22 5-star recruits per year. Does that mean each team that gets one automatically makes the Sweet 16?

No, not enough room, obviously.

Ask Kentucky.

It would be interesting to compare recruiting classes by identifying 5-stars and the following year Tournament results.

Drew just needs to figure out the right formula.

The Clemson game was just a crazy bad shooting game. Most of the 3 point misses were uncontested (it was as if the Clemson defense resembled a mid-major). They picked up quick that the team was cold and let them shoot from deep almost at-will.

38.9% FG
25.0% 3Pt
61.5% FT

It's as if someone slipped them a roofie in their lunch beverages.

---

You can call it that, but that game was completely indicative of our team's performance for most of the season. There were so many games we came out super flat, had dreadful shooting percentages for the first half or in some cases the entire game (like TCU), and looked exactly like the squad that got embarrassed by Clemson.

I count five games with similar first half performances like the one against Clemson since Late February:

Houston (valiant second half to tie it to go back to looking like the first half)
TCU (we won because both teams played awful)
Texas (valiant second half comeback)
Texas Tech (we arguably played worse)
Cincinnati (late first half & second half performance)
Iowa State (we arguably played worse)


The only game in that stretch we did show up was against a hobbled KU who's best player we've now found out wasn't practicing and he still dropped 20 on us. This team performed exactly as expected against Clemson if you'd watched us play after loosing Love.


I don't think all 22 five starts automatically mean you are supposed to land in the sweet 16. It is our elite coach who puts us in position where we should be in the sweet 16 each year. What everyone is arguing is he needs to stop chasing that and instead spend that NIL money and recruiting effort on someone who will perform better in college, than a one and done. Leave it to NBA fans to worry about how a guy hypothetically projects out to in 5 years, that doesn't win college games.

Fre3dombear said:

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IvanBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I haven't seen anyone here saying they want to see him gone. I've seen the opposite....wanting him back.

---

I think most people on these boards have a better understanding of the sport

I can't tell you how many casuals I follow on instagram that were bashing him

---

That's really disappointing....but not surprising with social media I guess.

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It's a little hard to blame a causal though, he's an overhyped player. He hardly ever lived up to his billing, and while he was key in keeping us in some big games it's hard to point to a performance of his that pushed us over the top in a big game. Only Auburn comes to mind. Instead casuals tune in see Fran talk about how he's a top ten draft pick and see a guy shooting sub 30% from 3.

I can't remember the last time the best freshman in the big twelve was shut out of the all conference roster.

His attitude should never be called into doubt but anyone thinking he lived to to his billing is crazy. I think that's where some of the online hate on say Instagram comes for. And he deserves a lot of flack for his defense and shot decision making but not him personally, personally he seems like one of the greats it sucks one of our highest character teams ever was one of our most disappointing teams.

---

Likely it's just people venting frustration that a guy were renting for a year when, in the 8 or so games we lost by 5 or less points, went 4/15 or so from the floor give or take

Sure it can't be blamed jist on him and he did many things amazingly well. His stats for a freshman weren't bad but few freshman are gonna get that many shots off just because of potential and he benefitted from chucking up a ton of shots.

I'd have never guessed he'd have bricked us out of a sweet 16 basically just from the free throw line (not that that the only reason but if he makes 83% of his shots when it mattered most from the line, likely Clemson buckles and we win.

---

Clemson game was a tough night on the line for Jakobe, no doubt. Surprised by it as he is a good FT shooter, but it happens to the very best (kind of thought Jakobe was a bit gassed, could have used a 2-minute break before the end, just my read. We had no options really, without Langston).

A quick look at the stats for the year: Walters never attempted more than 13 shots in games this year, with the exception of Cornell and WVU, both wins and where he carried us with 23. I sense the criticism of taking a lot of shots is a carry-over from Keyonte, who would take a lot of shots on occasion. Jakobe also averaged better from 3 than Keyonte and is about on par with the top freshman guards the last couple of years.

Problems this year in my view center more on a weak defense that could not overcome a bad shooting night. On offense, we were never the great shooting team of the past couple of years; Losing Cryer hurt, but what hurt us more was for the first time in 5 years, we didn't have a Jared Butler or and Adam Flagler to make the game winning shot. Those guys were as clutch as anyone we have ever had. Butler was also amazingly efficient assist to turnovers, which was definitely lacking this year against the top defenses.

TWD 1974 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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IvanBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I haven't seen anyone here saying they want to see him gone. I've seen the opposite....wanting him back.

---

I think most people on these boards have a better understanding of the sport

I can't tell you how many casuals I follow on instagram that were bashing him

---

That's really disappointing....but not surprising with social media I guess.

---

It's a little hard to blame a causal though, he's an overhyped player. He hardly ever lived up to his billing, and while he was key in keeping us in some big games it's hard to point to a performance of his that pushed us over the top in a big game. Only Auburn comes to mind. Instead casuals tune in see Fran talk about how he's a top ten draft pick and see a guy shooting sub 30% from 3.

I can't remember the last time the best freshman in the big twelve was shut out of the all conference roster.

His attitude should never be called into doubt but anyone thinking he lived to to his billing is crazy. I think that's where some of the online hate on say Instagram comes for. And he deserves a lot of flack for his defense and shot decision making but not him personally, personally he seems like one of the greats it sucks one of our highest character teams ever was one of our most disappointing teams.

---

Likely it's just people venting frustration that a guy were renting for a year when, in the 8 or so games we lost by 5 or less points, went 4/15 or so from the floor give or take

Sure it can't be blamed jist on him and he did many things amazingly well. His stats for a freshman weren't bad but few freshman are gonna get that many shots off just because of potential and he benefitted from chucking up a ton of shots.

I'd have never guessed he'd have bricked us out of a sweet 16 basically just from the free throw line (not that that the only reason but if he makes 83% of his shots when it mattered most from the line, likely Clemson buckles and we win.

---

Clemson game was a tough night on the line for Jakobe, no doubt. Surprised by it as he is a good FT shooter, but it happens to the very best (kind of thought Jakobe was a bit gassed, could have used a 2-minute break before the end, just my read. We had no options really, without Langston).

A quick look at the stats for the year: Walters never attempted more than 13 shots in games this year, with the exception of Cornell and WVU, both wins and where he carried us with 23. I sense the criticism of taking a lot of shots is a carry-over from Keyonte, who would take a lot of shots on occasion. Jakobe also averaged better from 3 than Keyonte and is about on par with the top freshman guards the last couple of years.

Problems this year in my view center more on a weak defense that could not overcome a bad shooting night. On offense, we were never the great shooting team of the past couple of years; Losing Cryer hurt, but what hurt us more was for the first time in 5 years, we didn't have a Jared Butler or and Adam Flagler to make the game winning shot. Those guys were as clutch as anyone we have ever had. Butler was also amazingly efficient assist to turnovers, which was definitely lacking this year against the top defenses.

---

If you're referring to my posts, taking a lot of shots isn't a criticism of Ja'Kobe. It's a criticism of a system that essentially promises freshmen that type of usage.

No player of any age should average 11 shots per game while shooting .376/.341/.792. With an effective field goal percentage of .474 (a distant last on our entire roster), that's just not efficient offense. But that's part of the deal when you take one-and-done freshmen, especially in Scott Drew's player freedom system, which is why I would rather not.

TWD 1974 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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IvanBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I haven't seen anyone here saying they want to see him gone. I've seen the opposite....wanting him back.

---

I think most people on these boards have a better understanding of the sport

I can't tell you how many casuals I follow on instagram that were bashing him

---

That's really disappointing....but not surprising with social media I guess.

---

It's a little hard to blame a causal though, he's an overhyped player. He hardly ever lived up to his billing, and while he was key in keeping us in some big games it's hard to point to a performance of his that pushed us over the top in a big game. Only Auburn comes to mind. Instead casuals tune in see Fran talk about how he's a top ten draft pick and see a guy shooting sub 30% from 3.

I can't remember the last time the best freshman in the big twelve was shut out of the all conference roster.

His attitude should never be called into doubt but anyone thinking he lived to to his billing is crazy. I think that's where some of the online hate on say Instagram comes for. And he deserves a lot of flack for his defense and shot decision making but not him personally, personally he seems like one of the greats it sucks one of our highest character teams ever was one of our most disappointing teams.

---

Likely it's just people venting frustration that a guy were renting for a year when, in the 8 or so games we lost by 5 or less points, went 4/15 or so from the floor give or take

Sure it can't be blamed jist on him and he did many things amazingly well. His stats for a freshman weren't bad but few freshman are gonna get that many shots off just because of potential and he benefitted from chucking up a ton of shots.

I'd have never guessed he'd have bricked us out of a sweet 16 basically just from the free throw line (not that that the only reason but if he makes 83% of his shots when it mattered most from the line, likely Clemson buckles and we win.

---

Clemson game was a tough night on the line for Jakobe, no doubt. Surprised by it as he is a good FT shooter, but it happens to the very best (kind of thought Jakobe was a bit gassed, could have used a 2-minute break before the end, just my read. We had no options really, without Langston).

A quick look at the stats for the year: Walters never attempted more than 13 shots in games this year, with the exception of Cornell and WVU, both wins and where he carried us with 23. I sense the criticism of taking a lot of shots is a carry-over from Keyonte, who would take a lot of shots on occasion. Jakobe also averaged better from 3 than Keyonte and is about on par with the top freshman guards the last couple of years.

Problems this year in my view center more on a weak defense that could not overcome a bad shooting night. On offense, we were never the great shooting team of the past couple of years; Losing Cryer hurt, but what hurt us more was for the first time in 5 years, we didn't have a Jared Butler or and Adam Flagler to make the game winning shot. Those guys were as clutch as anyone we have ever had. Butler was also amazingly efficient assist to turnovers, which was definitely lacking this year against the top defenses.

---

Jakobe and Keyonte are incredibly similar players, I think your narrative here about them is a bit off.

Jakobe attempted 10.9 field goals per game this year and 6.3 three pointers per game.

Keyonte attempted 12.5 field goals per game and 6.9 three pointers per game.


Those numbers aren't very different.

Jakobe shot 37.6% per game at 34.1% from three. Scored 14.5 per game.
Keyonte shot 37.6% from the field a 33.8% from three. Scored 15.3 per game.

In conference Jakobe shot 33.5% overall and and 29.1% from three. Scored 13.8 per game.
In conference Keyonte shot 38.8% overall and 34.8% from three. Scored 15.8 per game.

They had very similar numbers, Jakobe took basically two fewer shots per game and one fewer three per game. The problem is he was AWFUL in conference play from three, 29.1% and he was getting lots of open looks.

Keyonte was very much the same guy all year actually performing slightly better in conference than he did out of conference. They look a lot like the same players from a stats perspective, obviously stylistically they play very different and Keyonte has significantly better handles than Walter.

They're both unfortunately volume scorers. It's not unjustified criticism from Keyonte carrying over. The problem is Jakobe was much much worse from three and got off fewer shots.

They're different players but both volume scoring guys and the stays say Keyonte was a much better scorer.

bear2be2 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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IvanBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I haven't seen anyone here saying they want to see him gone. I've seen the opposite....wanting him back.

---

I think most people on these boards have a better understanding of the sport

I can't tell you how many casuals I follow on instagram that were bashing him

---

That's really disappointing....but not surprising with social media I guess.

---

It's a little hard to blame a causal though, he's an overhyped player. He hardly ever lived up to his billing, and while he was key in keeping us in some big games it's hard to point to a performance of his that pushed us over the top in a big game. Only Auburn comes to mind. Instead casuals tune in see Fran talk about how he's a top ten draft pick and see a guy shooting sub 30% from 3.

I can't remember the last time the best freshman in the big twelve was shut out of the all conference roster.

His attitude should never be called into doubt but anyone thinking he lived to to his billing is crazy. I think that's where some of the online hate on say Instagram comes for. And he deserves a lot of flack for his defense and shot decision making but not him personally, personally he seems like one of the greats it sucks one of our highest character teams ever was one of our most disappointing teams.

---

Likely it's just people venting frustration that a guy were renting for a year when, in the 8 or so games we lost by 5 or less points, went 4/15 or so from the floor give or take

Sure it can't be blamed jist on him and he did many things amazingly well. His stats for a freshman weren't bad but few freshman are gonna get that many shots off just because of potential and he benefitted from chucking up a ton of shots.

I'd have never guessed he'd have bricked us out of a sweet 16 basically just from the free throw line (not that that the only reason but if he makes 83% of his shots when it mattered most from the line, likely Clemson buckles and we win.

---

If we could have gotten it to overtime, Clemson was serious foul trouble. It's a shame we shot free throws as poorly as we did, but pressure free throws were an issue for this team all year.

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Yeah you could just sense that barring a miracle once it was tied or we had the lead it was over for them.

How many times have free throws under Drew killed us. It even invented Georgia State.

I have no stats thiugh so I'm sure I mostly remember the Ls due to free throws vs the wins of which I'm sure there are many.

That said it really almost seemed like our best clutch guy morphed into Missi who turned into near Larry Bird by end of the season from the line save the Houston game.

That and the usually large (seemingly) number of missed layups and bunnies seems to be a trend.

I'm sure it's not as bad as it seems to be though as I have no sabremetrics on it and just going from recollection and feeling

PS if they don't Chuck in yet another miracle 3 at the buzzer, Walter is shooting 2'wirh us already up 1 (knowing nothing plays out exactly the same but yet another odd quirk staple of Drew teams. I swear I never seen so many prayers buried at the buzzer as against baylor and I watch a lot of ball)

UConn is the best at this balance currently. I would like to replicate that approach. If that's what you mean I would agree. Easier said than done but possible.

Their freshman is an excellent fit and will probably leapfrog Walter in the draft. Plays a perfect role, good rebounding, and high level defense. They have multiple pros with seasoned guards and wings.

They don't rely on 23+ yr olds like some in our league. Great blend of talent and experience. Ku also had this type of balance in the past. That is the blueprint but both of those examples have coaches that dont compromise and really strong defensive staffs.

Seems defensive staff shakeup/addition (Jakus was offense) is needed

Quinton said:

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UConn is the best at this balance currently. I would like to replicate that approach. If that's what you mean I would agree. Easier said than done but possible.

Their freshman is an excellent fit and will probably leapfrog Walter in the draft. Plays a perfect role, good rebounding, and high level defense. They have multiple pros with seasoned guards and wings.

They don't rely on 23+ yr olds like some in our league. Great blend of talent and experience. Ku also had this type of balance in the past. That is the blueprint but both of those examples have coaches that dont compromise and really strong defensive staffs.

Seems defensive staff shakeup/addition (Jakus was offense) is needed

---

I don't ever want more than one freshman starter and that one either needs to be an elite college player or a willing role player. And when I say role player, I mean fills a specific role, not leads us in field goal attempts in an unselfish way.

The best way to use a one-and-done freshman is the way we used Quincy Miller -- to have them but not need them. We didn't ask Miller to do anything outside of his existing skill set, and when he struggled, we went with a veteran alternative (Ant Jones). That team was really good because it was deep with returning talent and we didn't need or ask our "star" freshman to do anything that he couldn't.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate freshman. They're certainly capable of helping your team win games. But teams that ask too much of them or play too many are lowering their own ceiling.

That's fair. Vj should be the only guy that starts next year. If the portal is used well, everyone we lean on will have at least a few years experience.

I agree one starter is a decent base rule.. preferably not the primary guy. I don't disagree. I would be fine with exceptions in exceptional cases (we got the next Luka/Lebron to come for a year)

Quinton said:

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That's fair. Vj should be the only guy that starts next year. If the portal is used well, everyone we lean on will have at least a few years experience.

I agree one starter is a decent base rule.. preferably not the primary guy. I don't disagree. I would be fine with exceptions in exceptional cases (we got the next Luka/Lebron to come for a year)

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No rules are ever absolute. That's just my ideal.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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UConn is the best at this balance currently. I would like to replicate that approach. If that's what you mean I would agree. Easier said than done but possible.

Their freshman is an excellent fit and will probably leapfrog Walter in the draft. Plays a perfect role, good rebounding, and high level defense. They have multiple pros with seasoned guards and wings.

They don't rely on 23+ yr olds like some in our league. Great blend of talent and experience. Ku also had this type of balance in the past. That is the blueprint but both of those examples have coaches that dont compromise and really strong defensive staffs.

Seems defensive staff shakeup/addition (Jakus was offense) is needed

---

I don't ever want more than one freshman starter and that one either needs to be an elite college player or a willing role player.

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You had best get the prescription refilled for next year, then. Williams and Edgecombe will likely be starting. Based on that, you have to look at next season as a rebuilding year. Hopefully, 2025-26 we will have a veteran backcourt with Miro, Langston and Williams. It will ultimately be the quality of the older transfers that will determine how far we go next season.

I agree with the idea of not relying on the freshman to carry a team. You look at the Syracuse NC with Carmelo Anthony. That team was loaded with veterans, strong defensively, great 3pt shooters. If the opposing team keyed on Anthony, that left shooters open. Also, the zone d helped cover defensive weakness from Carmelo.

TWD 1974 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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UConn is the best at this balance currently. I would like to replicate that approach. If that's what you mean I would agree. Easier said than done but possible.

Their freshman is an excellent fit and will probably leapfrog Walter in the draft. Plays a perfect role, good rebounding, and high level defense. They have multiple pros with seasoned guards and wings.

They don't rely on 23+ yr olds like some in our league. Great blend of talent and experience. Ku also had this type of balance in the past. That is the blueprint but both of those examples have coaches that dont compromise and really strong defensive staffs.

Seems defensive staff shakeup/addition (Jakus was offense) is needed

---

I don't ever want more than one freshman starter and that one either needs to be an elite college player or a willing role player.

---

You had best get the prescription refilled for next year, then. Williams and Edgecombe will likely be starting. Based on that, you have to look at next season as a rebuilding year. Hopefully, 2025-26 we will have a veteran backcourt with Miro, Langston and Williams. It will ultimately be the quality of the older transfers that will determine how far we go next season.

I agree with the idea of not relying on the freshman to carry a team. You look at the Syracuse NC with Carmelo Anthony. That team was loaded with veterans, strong defensively, great 3pt shooters. If the opposing team keyed on Anthony, that left shooters open. Also, the zone d helped cover defensive weakness from Carmelo.

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I'm guessing you mean Wright and Edgecombe. And it's certainly possible that both end up starters, but Edgecombe is the only shoo-in of the two IMO. There's a decent chance we go get another portal point guard to start next season.

But what I want and what Scott Drew want roster-wise are likely two different things. I'll root for whoever we put there in any given year. I just believe the best path to a championship roster is experience and that most "elite" freshmen aren't ready for the roles they're thrust into.

I would honestly just as soon roll with Wright and Little at the point next year and take our lumps in a rebuilding season if it means a better, more experienced and more complete team in 2025-26. But I'm likely in the minority there. Most aren't going to be as willing to be patient as I am with a developmental team in the instant gratification era of one-and-dones and the transfer portal.

But I'd rather lower the floor now for a higher ceiling later than continue to roll with good, but flawed teams that can't get over the Round of 32 hump in March.

Vj will probably start so I expect 1. Who is Williams?

In all this, I'm pretty convinced that CSD is attuned to exactly what the problem is. The problem is that attempting to fix the problem by becoming more developmentally minded offers no guarantee of success either. Still, I hope CSD finds that middle ground again like he had in 2020-2021.

Guitarbiscuit said:

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In all this, I'm pretty convinced that CSD is attuned to exactly what the problem is. The problem is that attempting to fix the problem by becoming more developmentally minded offers no guarantee of success either. Still, I hope CSD finds that middle ground again like he had in 2020-2021.

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There are never any guarantees (except for on Zalinsky's brake pads). Anyone can lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. But if you look at the teams that are making the deepest runs and winning there consistently, they share many of the same characteristics. Experience doesn't guarantee success in March. But it's really hard to win in March without a lot of it.

And outside of four or five cases, it's proven really hard to make a Final Four or national championship run with freshmen in primary roles.

bear2be2 said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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In all this, I'm pretty convinced that CSD is attuned to exactly what the problem is. The problem is that attempting to fix the problem by becoming more developmentally minded offers no guarantee of success either. Still, I hope CSD finds that middle ground again like he had in 2020-2021.

---

There are never any guarantees. Anyone can lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. But if you look at the teams that are making the deepest runs and winning there, they share many of the same characteristics. Experience doesn't guarantee success in March. But it's really hard to win in March with a lot of of it.

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Oh I agree. Drew knows he needs to become more developmentally focused and defensively focused. I can see hints of that in the recruits he is going after in the portal. That will create the only chance of a deep run.

Guitarbiscuit said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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In all this, I'm pretty convinced that CSD is attuned to exactly what the problem is. The problem is that attempting to fix the problem by becoming more developmentally minded offers no guarantee of success either. Still, I hope CSD finds that middle ground again like he had in 2020-2021.

---

There are never any guarantees. Anyone can lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. But if you look at the teams that are making the deepest runs and winning there, they share many of the same characteristics. Experience doesn't guarantee success in March. But it's really hard to win in March with a lot of of it.

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Oh I agree. Drew knows he needs to become more developmentally focused and defensively focused. I can see hints of that in the recruits he is going after in the portal. That will create the only chance of a deep run.

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I wouldn't be surprised if we start going away from freshman recruiting (at least to the degree that we have leaned on it lately) in favor or multi-year transfers. You take a lot of the volatility out of the equation that way while keeping a steady flow of returners in your program.

parch said:

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broncko said:

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It would be interesting to compare recruiting classes by identifying 5-stars and the following year Tournament results.

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Four teams have won the national title with a 5-star one-and-done player on the team in the last 20 years: 2015 Duke, 2012 Kentucky, 2005 UNC, 2003 Syracuse.

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Thank you!

So, in 20 years at 22 5-stars per year (or so) we have around 400 teams over that time frame playing with 5-star freshman (i rounded down to account for teams that got two 5-stars in a single class). So, the rough odds of winning a Nat'l Championship with a 5-star freshman are 1%. (4 / 400). Seems quite difficult.

bear2be2 said:

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No player of any age should average 11 shots per game while shooting .376/.341/.792. With an effective field goal percentage of .474 (a distant last on our entire roster), that's just not efficient offense. But that's part of the deal when you take one-and-done freshmen, especially in Scott Drew's player freedom system, which is why I would rather not.

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This statement should be capped and bolded.

Still no NBA draft decision from Walter?

Sort of wonder if there is any chance that the combination of possible additional NIL money in conjunction with the possibility that perhaps he is hearing that maybe won't be a lottery pick but maybe more a late first rounder could give Walter impetus to stay another year. Anyone hear anything? Online boards I'm looking at project him as a lottery pick, but the boards are dated.