In our system Drew considers our top 8 guys all as starters who all play starter's minutes Drew has said this over and over again in interviews. None of our top 8 or 9 guys are buried on the bench they play integral roles and high minutes. Think of our national title team, we had Maher, EJ, and Flagler coming off the bench. Flagler were phenomenal as instant offense, Mayer and EJ were great bench energy guys. That year most people would agree that EJ was better than Flo, yet Flo was the starter. That was not a slight to EJ. Fast-forwarding to last year, Love thrived in his 6th man role and he would have been big 12 6th man of the year before injury wrecked him again. Just fingers crossed we close the deal on Roach.

It is strange but I don't have a strong opinion either way. You would think the older you get.. it becomes different playing off the bench at the college level. It isn't the nba so the role requires serious humility. Healthy Love and Roach will be our two best players next year. Both could easily avg 15+ on efficient %'s. Both should be able to get us a bucket when things tense up.

Now Roach is a much better defender than Love so hopefully all our guards put in a ton of defensive work this offseason. With Roach, VJ, improved Nunn (hopefully), and improved Little (hopefully) the perimeter defense could be okay.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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In our system Drew considers our top 8 guys all as starters who all play starter's minutes Drew has said this over and over again in interviews. None of our top 8 or 9 guys are buried on the bench they play integral roles and high minutes. Think of our national title team, we had Maher, EJ, and Flagler coming off the bench. Flagler were phenomenal as instant offense, Mayer and EJ were great bench energy guys. That year most people would agree that EJ was better than Flo, yet Flo was the starter. That was not a slight to EJ. Fast-forwarding to last year, Love thrived in his 6th man role and he would have been big 12 6th man of the year before injury wrecked him again. Just fingers crossed we close the deal on Roach.

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Look that can all be true, but there's a lot that goes into making sure the best guys are out on the court when you need them most. There were a lot of strategic reasons not to start Jon over Flo, but it also made it easier b/c Jon was not a senior and was not a leader on the team.

The Flo/Jon dynamic of the starter getting fewer minutes than his backup is not normal even under Drew though. Jon was also not even a top 5 player on that team. We're talking about a top 3 player on our team next year, you have to expect he will 1) want to start 2) have earned the right to start. It's awkward because he's passing up a starter form last year to likely do it.

Leaders aren't energy guys off the bench, if they are that means you've got a massive void in leadership.

Stefano DiMera said:

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Hopefully Nunn and/or Little don't transfer if this pans out.

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Nunn would be a loss. Little could be easily replaced with a number of possibilities. For some strange reason Little has become this year's Grimes, who a good portion of the fanbase kept declaring how great he would be and he ended up being a complete bust. If Little loses about 15 pounds and gains a lot more quickness so he doesn't get beaten so easily off the first step by quick Big 12 guards then maybe he can contribute. Otherwise we have another Grimes situation where he will be buried deep on the bench and transfers out in December.

DR0941 said:

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Really wish Drew would hire another defensive specialist it's something we desperately need.

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Its why I said "could" and not "should" be. At this point, just don't have any confidence in the team's defense. I've been on this point for awhile so no reason for me to keep pushing it. But I agree with you completely. The group (assuming Roach and TN PF) should be decent to solid on defense at the very least with the right instruction.

It will be an interesting year as we have a proven, veteran high D1 player coming in. We haven't experienced that before. Roach was a solid, sound defender in a very talented league. If he looks out of position or lost.. it will be a major red flag.

Quinton said:

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DR0941 said:

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Really wish Drew would hire another defensive specialist it's something we desperately need.

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Its why I said "could" and not "should" be. At this point, just don't have any confidence in the team's defense. I've been on this point for awhile so no reason for me to keep pushing it. But I agree with you completely. The group (assuming Roach and TN PF) should be decent to solid on defense at the very least with the right instruction.

It will be an interesting year as we have a proven, veteran high D1 player coming in. We haven't experienced that before. Roach was a solid, sound defender in a very talented league. If he looks out of position or lost.. it will be a major red flag.

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Was James Akinjo not a proven, veteran, high D1 player? He started every game of his career except 1.

Roach may be a better player than him, but Drew has pulled High D1 transfers before.

IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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DR0941 said:

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Really wish Drew would hire another defensive specialist it's something we desperately need.

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Its why I said "could" and not "should" be. At this point, just don't have any confidence in the team's defense. I've been on this point for awhile so no reason for me to keep pushing it. But I agree with you completely. The group (assuming Roach and TN PF) should be decent to solid on defense at the very least with the right instruction.

It will be an interesting year as we have a proven, veteran high D1 player coming in. We haven't experienced that before. Roach was a solid, sound defender in a very talented league. If he looks out of position or lost.. it will be a major red flag.

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Was James Akinjo not a proven, veteran, high D1 player? He started every game of his career except 1.

Roach may be a better player than him, but Drew has pulled High D1 transfers before.

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It seems to be forgotten how well James--and the team was playing first half of the season. His injury was minor compared to the others, but he played through it. Check his assists numbers that year.

We have the no. 3 freshman pg. in the country also coming in this year, along with the highest rated 2guard we have ever had coming in. Count on our 3 freshman being a solid part of the 8 starters.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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Hopefully Nunn and/or Little don't transfer if this pans out.

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Nunn would be a loss. Little could be easily replaced with a number of possibilities. For some strange reason Little has become this year's Grimes, who a good portion of the fanbase kept declaring how great he would be and he ended up being a complete bust. If Little loses about 15 pounds and gains a lot more quickness so he doesn't get beaten so easily off the first step by quick Big 12 guards then maybe he can contribute. Otherwise we have another Grimes situation where he will be buried deep on the bench and transfers out in December.

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Unless Grimes had off-the-court issues that forced him out of the program (which is certainly possible), his only sin was being lower on the staff's totem pole than Miro Little. In his limited playing time this past season, he graded out as the team's best defensive guard (by a long shot) and shot .600/.667/.800.

He couldn't have done much more than he did to earn additional playing time.

Nunn was nowhere near a plus defender last year but I think Adriacus is right. Love got pretty easy assignments. I think Nunn was ultimately a "better" defender than Love.

Fortunately Roach is way better than either of them on the defensive end. Nunn has tools to be decent. Just lacks fundamentals, footwork, and awareness (I know that's a lot).

A strong defensive staff could turn Nunn into a plus defender m. I've seen enough flashes to believe this. I'm skeptical but hopeful the staff can develop a perimeter defender or two this offseason. Little has good natural defensive instincts but is still developing explosion at this level

Roach is miles more efficient than James. His shooting splits are excellent. Akinjo had some negative sentiment and legit concern in his game. Roach has none relative to the college game (undersized tweener 1/2).

Roach is a really good college player that just barely misses skill/measurables for the league (bear2's elusive "sweet spot " player)

Quinton said:

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Nunn was nowhere near a plus defender last year but I think Adriacus is right. Love got pretty easy assignments. I think Nunn was ultimately a "better" defender than Love.

Fortunately Roach is way better than either of them on the defensive end. Nunn has tools to be decent. Just lacks fundamentals, footwork, and awareness (I know that's a lot).

A strong defensive staff could turn Nunn into a plus defender m. I've seen enough flashes to believe this. I'm skeptical but hopeful the staff can develop a perimeter defender or two this offseason. Little has good natural defensive instincts but is still developing explosion at this level

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I think we're pretty close on this point, I do agree Nunn could be a plus defender with the right coaching, I seem to recall defensive upside was one of the reasons we even went after him in the portal. Having said that, like you pointed out, you're probably talking a multi-year project to make him a plus defender, I don't think he's picking up everything he needs in one off season or he'd be a better defender right now. I'm not saying he couldn't though.

I would argue Love you could also see develop good defensive skills. I think certain aspects of Love's game is behind due to the fact he's never played a full season and been able to consistently play and practice in the off season. He's missing time to develop all those defensive instincts over the years he should have at this point in his career due to injury.


On Akinjo I don't disagree but lets not pretend he wasn't a high major elite talent. He was very good for us and a massive part of the reason that team won the big 12 and got at 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. The knock on him coming in was attitude not talent.

IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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Nunn was nowhere near a plus defender last year but I think Adriacus is right. Love got pretty easy assignments. I think Nunn was ultimately a "better" defender than Love.

Fortunately Roach is way better than either of them on the defensive end. Nunn has tools to be decent. Just lacks fundamentals, footwork, and awareness (I know that's a lot).

A strong defensive staff could turn Nunn into a plus defender m. I've seen enough flashes to believe this. I'm skeptical but hopeful the staff can develop a perimeter defender or two this offseason. Little has good natural defensive instincts but is still developing explosion at this level

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I think we're pretty close on this point, I do agree Nunn could be a plus defender with the right coaching, I seem to recall defensive upside was one of the reasons we even went after him in the portal. Having said that, like you pointed out, you're probably talking a multi-year project to make him a plus defender, I don't think he's picking up everything he needs in one off season or he'd be a better defender right now. I'm not saying he couldn't though.

I would argue Love you could also see develop good defensive skills. I think certain aspects of Love's game is behind due to the fact he's never played a full season and been able to consistently play and practice in the off season. He's missing time to develop all those defensive instincts over the years he should have at this point in his career due to injury.


On Akinjo I don't disagree but lets not pretend he wasn't a high major elite talent. He was very good for us and a massive part of the reason that team won the big 12 and got at 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. The knock on him coming in was attitude not talent.

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Akinjo was a horribly inefficient scorer at both Georgetown and Arizona before arriving at Baylor. The guy averaged less than 4.5 makes on almost 12 shots per game for his career.

He was a dog on defense and a did a pretty solid job as a distributor. But his shot selection and shot-making ability were both pretty awful. He was a volume scorer his entire collegiate career.

Roach is a much, much more efficient player. I don't know if he's the same caliber of creator from the point guard position, but he will be a much less frustrating offensive player than Akinjo was.

Roach refuted rumors that Baylor offered him $1.5 million in NIL money:

https://balldurham.com/posts/duke-basketball-captain-refutes-report-million-nil-potential-suitor

At least one Kentucky fan thinks we ard the favorite:

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2024/4/18/24134408/jeremy-roach-baylor-bears-duke-blue-devils-basketball-transfer-kentucky

That Akinjo wasn't an efficient scorer doesn't negate IvanBear's point that Akinnjo was a high-major talent who was first team pac 12 before transferring to Baylor. He was first team big 12 and was playing at a really high level for us before getting injured and playing hurt the rest of that season. He was not my favorite player ever to wear a Baylor uniform, but he was a vital cog in a team that reached #1 in the polls before injuries to Akinjo, Cryer, and EJ decimated our team that season.

I largely agree. I do think Love (while not overly explosive originally) isn't the same laterally. It hurts his defensive upside but I'm sure some of that is from never having a healthy developmental offseason. I'm very optimistic about his ability next year and I agree he could be a decent defender with the right coaching.

No doubt Akinjo was a high major talent. He was actually a better facilitator than Roach and was surprisingly good before injuries. I fully believe that team wins the title similar to how UConn did the last two years.

But my point is Roach is the first hugely sought after, experienced D1 prospect we've gotten (allegedly for now). Now a large part is the current nature of the portal v 21'. I remember interest in Akinjo but nothing like a top 10 portal "prospect" now, despite his accolades.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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That Akinjo wasn't an efficient scorer doesn't negate IvanBear's point that Akinnjo was a high-major talent who was first team pac 12 before transferring to Baylor. He was first team big 12 and was playing at a really high level for us before getting injured and playing hurt the rest of that season. He was not my favorite player ever to wear a Baylor uniform, but he was a vital cog in a team that reached #1 in the polls before injuries to Akinjo, Cryer, and EJ decimated our team that season.

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Akinjo was a fine player. But I don't think he was the same level of player that Roach is.

A lot gets attributed to his injury that was actually just regression to his career mean. He was playing waaaaayyyyy above his head during nonconference play that year. His Big 12 and tournament shooting numbers were much more in line with his career output.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Yes, I think regression to career means can happen, but also you can directly connect his decline with his tailbone injury in January. The first game back he shot something like 1-14 and could barely move. I will always admire his toughness because he gutted it out for the team when he really had no business playing for a good 2 or 3 week stretch after the injury. He never really got into a groove again with his shooting after that.

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He was a tough dude, and was a catalyst -- along with EJ, Sochan and others -- for what was our last good defensive team.

But he's always taken too many and bad shots. He did it at Georgetown and he did it at Arizona. It was going to catch up with him with or without the injury.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Yep, I do remember Akinjo taking some bad shots that year but not all based on poor decision-making. I remember our half-court offense would bog down and stagnate and Akinjo was left holding the ball with the shot clock winding down. He would have to jack up desperation shots to beat the shot clock. Once Akinjo got injured the coaching staff got Sochan more involved as a facilitator, which opened up our offense and put Sochan in the lottery. The rest, they say, is history.

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Yep, Flagler was not the best guy to pair with Akinjo on that team. He had too much catch and shoot in him still to really assist in facilitating like he needed to.

Man that team was so snake bitten with injuries it's amazing they won as much as they did.

Retracted. He's on the team so no reason for me to add further comments which wouldn't be positive.

bear2be2 said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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I don't care what we paid or didn't pay Scott Drew comes through and gets what he needed to get. Roach, VJ, Nunn and Wright. We have a talented set of guards.

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Is there a particular reason you're leaving Love off? Despite his injury issues, he'll most certainly open the 2024-25 season as a significant part of that guard corps.

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No. I just think of him more as the starting 3 and those other 4 as the 4 who rotate in the 1 and 2 spots. If we want to think of the 3 as a guard spot which is basically what Coach Drew has used it for quite awhile now I'm okay with that too and would just add Love's name to the talent pool.

This is great news. He will make an immediate impact.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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I don't care what we paid or didn't pay Scott Drew comes through and gets what he needed to get. Roach, VJ, Nunn and Wright. We have a talented set of guards.

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Is there a particular reason you're leaving Love off? Despite his injury issues, he'll most certainly open the 2024-25 season as a significant part of that guard corps.

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No. I just think of him more as the starting 3 and those other 4 as the 4 who rotate in the 1 and 2 spots. If we want to think of the 3 as a guard spot which is basically what Coach Drew has used it for quite awhile now I'm okay with that too and would just add Love's name to the talent pool.

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Love is (now) the second best guard on the roster put some respect on his name.

IvanBear said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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I don't care what we paid or didn't pay Scott Drew comes through and gets what he needed to get. Roach, VJ, Nunn and Wright. We have a talented set of guards.

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Is there a particular reason you're leaving Love off? Despite his injury issues, he'll most certainly open the 2024-25 season as a significant part of that guard corps.

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No. I just think of him more as the starting 3 and those other 4 as the 4 who rotate in the 1 and 2 spots. If we want to think of the 3 as a guard spot which is basically what Coach Drew has used it for quite awhile now I'm okay with that too and would just add Love's name to the talent pool.

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Love is (now) the second best guard on the roster put some respect on his name.

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Maybe 2nd best offensive guard although that may be debatable once Edgecombe has a chance to show his skills and of course that's assuming Love ever gets through a complete season without injury which he hasn't done in 3 years here. He still can't play a lick of defense though so hard to call him second best guard.

Agree Love can't defend, but coming off the bench as a 6th man he is easier to hide on that end. He will still be Big 12 6th man of the year for us. He is a walking bucket. Just has to stay healthy.