Gameday Thread: No. 8 Baylor (0-1) versus No. 16 Arkansas (1-0)

boognish_bear said:

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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.

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Other coaches manage to do it. UConn's one-and-dones are never their most-used players, for instance. They settle into the right roles for the team and don't see their draft stock suffer at all as a result.

I think there's a perception that you have to showcase these guys. But more often than not, showcasing these guys past their competency causes their draft stock to drop, not rise. We saw it with Kendall Brown, Keyonte George and Ja'Kobe Walter, while our role guys like Sochan and Missi went higher.

bear2be2 said:

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TWD 1974 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Hotsauce said:

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Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.

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He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.

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And to be fair to Edge, I didn't see him a 3 point attempt out of the context of the offense. Our offense just needs to find ways to keep him playing downhill instead of standing at the 3 point line. Downhill is where his quickness and athleticism cannot be contained. He also has terrific vision and the ability to create for others. Had a couple terrific assists last night.

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He wasn't taking bad shots. They were just bad shots for a poor shooter.

At some point, there's a reason you're being left open. The defense views those shots as wins for them.

Like Walter, I don't think Edge is selfish. I think as a blue-chip, sure-fire one-and-done, he has a vision of himself and his game that isn't exactly accurate at the high-major college level. These guys come in with a ton of confidence based on what they've done at lower levels or even in the much less physical international game and need to have their role massaged over time.

We don't do enough role massaging in our program IMO, but the thing I like about VJ is that he will be much better equipped than either George or Walter were to contribute in significant ways when he's struggling to score. His athleticism and motor are both potential difference-makers with or without the type of skill we've seen from our last two blue chip guards.

He just needs to slow down a tick or two. He plays way too fast, which leads to poor, out-of-control decisions at times.

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"role massaging" ...?

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Guys come in thinking they're alpha scorers and lead us in field goal attempts while shooting sub-40 percent from the field and sub-34 percent from 3. That mentality needs to be massaged out of those players, so more efficient players can get more shots.

We don't do a very good job IMO of holding guys accountable on the court. This is especially true on defense, where our effort/intensity at times would get guys kicked out of the gym by someone like Kelvin Simpson. But it's true on offense too. We seem more concerned at times about making sure certain players are playing the roles they want to play to showcase themselves for the next level than we are about putting the best/most efficient team we can on the court every night.

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This is a nice way to say Drew is promising starting roles a minutes and he shouldn't be doing that because it actively makes his teams worse. This is the route he's decided to go though so he needs to figure out new better ways of coaching.

Last night was great but it's only going to work if the opposing team is horrible from 3, it will not be that way for most teams we play.

boognish_bear said:

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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.

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Drews has already put in the investment and proven himself to young players. He lets them shine. Pulling back a little on VJ won't impact that.

But I think VJ comes around in a serious way. The downside for him is big 12 officiating is kind of "different ". He's so athletic the only way to stop him when he's slashing or in the open court is to hack him. Unfortunately a lot of it will not get called so he'll have to play strong.

Quinton said:

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boognish_bear said:

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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.

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Drews has already put in the investment and proven himself to young players. He lets them shine. Pulling back a little on VJ won't impact that.

But I think VJ comes around in a serious way. The downside for him is big 12 officiating is kind of "different ". He's so athletic the only way to stop him when he's slashing or in the open court is to hack him. Unfortunately a lot of it will not get called so he'll have to play strong.

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The irony is that all of our one-and-done level talent -- Perry Jones, Isaiah Austin, Quincy Miller, Kendall Brown, Keyonte George and Ja'Kobe Walter were drafted lower than they were projected to be in preseason mocks. Some fell so far they either had to stay a second year or should have stayed a second year.

So we're not actually helping these young players by giving them the freedom we do. All would be better off in roles more fitting for their current maturity/skill levels. Overexposing players doesn't help their careers. It does the opposite.

It magnifies their flaws to scouts, they get drafted in the late first round or fall to the second and are often out of the league before they get a second contract.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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boognish_bear said:

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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.

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Drews has already put in the investment and proven himself to young players. He lets them shine. Pulling back a little on VJ won't impact that.

But I think VJ comes around in a serious way. The downside for him is big 12 officiating is kind of "different ". He's so athletic the only way to stop him when he's slashing or in the open court is to hack him. Unfortunately a lot of it will not get called so he'll have to play strong.

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The irony is that all of our one-and-done level talent -- Perry Jones, Isaiah Austin, Quincy Miller, Kendall Brown, Keyonte George and Ja'Kobe Walter were drafted lower than they were projected to be in preseason mocks. Some fell so far they either had to stay a second year or should have stayed a second year.

So we're not actually helping these young players by giving them the freedom we do. All would be better off in roles more fitting for their current maturity/skill levels. Overexposing players doesn't help their careers. It does the opposite.

It magnifies their flaws to scouts, they get drafted in the late first round or fall to the second and are often out of the league before they get a second contract.

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I agree with that. VJ is just too athletic to get passed up though. Most athletic player I've seen in the games I've watched so far. He has special athleticism even for the pro game which is rare. Pro scouts will buy in on upside and he'll go high. I agree with the sentiment though, especially for George and Jones.

Going off your UConn comment. I think that is bc Hurley is obsessive and relentless. Different approach. He's like a Sampson or a (pick your defensive coach here) but with a much better offensive mind. I don't think our staff thinks of things like that or is maniacal in their approach where winning is the only thing that matters.

Wish we had a little more edge but I we'll have to see it consistenly first. I believe they will get into the offensive flow but I have no confidence in our defensive coaching until they prove it.

This was the response I expected from Baylor after Monday night's loss to Gonzaga.

But Arkansas shot 41% from the field, 25% from 3, and lost by five 90 minutes from Baylor's campus in its second game together as a unit.

Can't wait to see where the Razorbacks are in a month. https://t.co/tAU6C47xSV

— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) November 10, 2024

Heisman25g said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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boognish_bear said:

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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.

---

Drews has already put in the investment and proven himself to young players. He lets them shine. Pulling back a little on VJ won't impact that.

But I think VJ comes around in a serious way. The downside for him is big 12 officiating is kind of "different ". He's so athletic the only way to stop him when he's slashing or in the open court is to hack him. Unfortunately a lot of it will not get called so he'll have to play strong.

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The irony is that all of our one-and-done level talent -- Perry Jones, Isaiah Austin, Quincy Miller, Kendall Brown, Keyonte George and Ja'Kobe Walter were drafted lower than they were projected to be in preseason mocks. Some fell so far they either had to stay a second year or should have stayed a second year.

So we're not actually helping these young players by giving them the freedom we do. All would be better off in roles more fitting for their current maturity/skill levels. Overexposing players doesn't help their careers. It does the opposite.

It magnifies their flaws to scouts, they get drafted in the late first round or fall to the second and are often out of the league before they get a second contract.

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Does Scott Drew know you're available for a consulting role?

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Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy for a reason. The proof is in the pudding.

Kendall Brown got cut this offseason and Ja'Kobe Walter was immediately designated to the G League. Freshmen aren't leaving our program ready to play in the league.

Keyonte George puts up stats because he's given near unlimited freedom on a bad team. But his inefficiency will catch up with him eventually if he doesn't improve.

That shot block 2 feet above the rim was freakish even by NBA standards. VJ is already the most athletic player I have ever seen in a Baylor uniform.

This obsession with Freshman is what it is, an obsession. VJ has already made multiple next level plays in 2 games, but nothing will satisfy you.

As far as Keyonte, he led all rookies in assists last year and has already had several 30 point plus games in his short career. I really don't know anything about quantum physics, but I think I'm going to declare myself self an expert and opine.

Keyonte is the next Magic don't ya know?!!?

It is early yet. But I love his demeanor. Everything I have heard is he is a hard worker and a humble kid. The big 12 is a physical grind and I totally agree on your comments regarding the officiating and physicality of the league. Completely different game from the NBA where he will thrive in a more wide-open style of play.

Can't stop watching the block

Block of the year?!👀👀👀 pic.twitter.com/IsZ0ueVjrf

— NKY Bracket Guy (@BracketNky) November 10, 2024

Because the Arky play fell down hard. I'm not saying it's legit only that from their perspective it looked hard. It was a great block.

That's why it ended the way it did. They keep saying the Big 12 is greater than all the other conferences and that it is very physical. The two are related and the Arky player found out. So did Mark Few's son.