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Baylor Basketball

Gameday Thread: No. 8 Baylor (0-1) versus No. 16 Arkansas (1-0)

November 8, 2024
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No. 8 Baylor (0-1) looks to rebound from the loss to No. 6 Gonzaga with a match-up against No. 16 Arkansas (1-0) in Dallas at the American Airlines Center on Nov. 9 at 6:30 p.m. CST.  The game will be televised on ESPNU.

KenPom Prediction: Baylor 77, Arkansas 76

Torvik Prediction: Baylor 76, Arkansas 75

Evan Miyakawa: Baylor 76, Arkansas 76 (toss-up)

Haslametrics: Baylor 77, Arkansas 72


Coaches

Arkansas: John Calipari (65) 814-260 (1-0 at Arkansas); 23 NCAAs; 14 Sweet 16s; 12 Elite 8s; 5 FFs; 1 National Championship

Baylor: Scott Drew (53); 465-254 overall (435-243 at Baylor); 12 NCAAs; 5 Sweet 16s; 3 Elite 8s; FF; 1 National Championship

Head to Head: 2-1 Drew


Arkansas Starters

  • Guard: Boogie Fland (FR) 6-2 175 lbs; 17 ppg; 3 reb; 3 asst; 39% FG; 13% 3pt; 100% FT
  • Guard: Johnell Davis (SR) 6-4 210 lbs; 15 ppg; 6 reb; 58% FG; 25% 3pt; Florida Atlantic TR
  • Guard: DJ Wagner (SO) 6-4 195 lbs; 7 ppg; 2 reb; 43% FG; 100% FT; UK TR
  • Forward: Adou Thiero (JR) 6-8 220 lbs; 8 ppg; 4 reb; 3 st; 67% FG; UK TR
  • Forward: Zvonimir Ivisic (SO) 7-2 245 lbs; 12 ppg; 3 reb; 3 blks; 83% FG; 50% 3pt; 50% FT; UK TR

Arkansas Bench

  • Forward:  Trevon Brazille (JR) 6-10 230 lbs; 6 ppg; 8 reb; 2 st; 60% FG
  • Guard: Billy Richmond (FR) 6-5 205 lbs; 4 ppg; 2 reb; 2 asst; 67% FG
  • Guard: Karter Knox (FR) 6-6 220 lbs; 5 ppg; 2 reb; 50% FG
  • Forward: Jonas Aidoo (SR) 6-11 240 lbs; 2 ppg; 3 reb; 50% FG; Tennessee TR

Baylor Starters

  • Guard: Jeremy Roach (SR) 6-2 180 lbs; 9 ppg; 2 reb; 3 asst; 22% FG; 25% 3pt; 100% FT; Duke TR
  • Guard: Jayden Nunn (SR) 6-4 190 lbs; 6 ppg; 4 reb; 2 asst; 38% FG
  • Guard: VJ Edgecombe (FR) 6-5 190 lbs; 4 ppg; 7 reb; 2 blks; 18% FG
  • Forward: Norchad Omier (SR) 6-7 245 lbs; 15 ppg; 9 reb; 42% FG; 71% FT; Miami TR
  • Forward: Josh Ojianwuna (JR) 6-10 255 lbs; 10 ppg; 6 reb; 3 st; 100% FG; 57% FT

Baylor Bench

  • Guard: Langston Love (JR) 6-5 215 lbs; 11 ppg; 3 reb; 47% FG; 48% 3p; 78% FT (2023-24 stats)
  • Forward: Jalen Celestine (SR) 6-7 215 lbs; 6 ppg; 40% FG; 40% 3pt; Cal TR
  • Guard: Rob Wright (FR) 6-1 180 lbs; 12 ppg; 6 asst; 43% FG
Discussion from...

Gameday Thread: No. 8 Baylor (0-1) versus No. 16 Arkansas (1-0)

10,419 Views | 123 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by historian
IowaBear
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Really nice November resume builder. Willing to bet by March the win looks even more impressive
bear2be2
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Quinton said:

Vj could become an elite offensive rebounder. Best jumper in the country
He's going to be a really good energy guy. I just want him to stop thinking he's an alpha scorer -- at least until the results come much closer to matching that profile.

The physicality of the men's college game makes for a really tough transition for physically immature freshman.

Edgecombe has a bright future, but he's at best the fourth-best scoring option on this team right now. I'd like to see him settle into a support role and focus more on hustle plays and easy stuff at the rim.
bear2be2
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IowaBear said:

Really nice November resume builder. Willing to bet by March the win looks even more impressive
For sure. Really solid win tonight.
boognish_bear
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Big12Fan2024 said:

I don't know that we've ever had a big who moves as well off the ball on O as Norchad. For years I've watched guys stand around and not do anything when a ball handler is trapped. Norchad is the first to help in those situations. Just keep your eyes on him.

And not to mention he has the best hands of any big we've had.


I am super impressed with his game
Big12Fan2024
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bear2be2 said:

Quinton said:

Vj could become an elite offensive rebounder. Best jumper in the country
He's going to be a really good energy guy. I just want him to stop thinking he's an alpha scorer -- at least until the results come much closer to matching that profile.

The physicality of the men's college game makes for a really tough transition for physically immature freshman.

Edgecombe has a bright future, but he's at best the fourth-best scoring option on this team right now. I'd like to see him settle into a support role and focus more on hustle plays and easy stuff at the rim.
To me his niche on O is the proverbial junk guy because he's so athletic he should score a lot on putbacks from karoms off the rim, tip-ins at the rim due to his incredible vertical leap, driving to the basket when he has a mismatch and drawing fouls, things like that. He can contribute 10-12 points a game just doing that. He is definitely not who you want as a set and shoot from the outside guy. And he has never been noted as a strong 3 point guy. But he brings so many other things.
Johnny Bear
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Hopefully the Gonzaga disaster was one of those inexplicable one off flukes that sometimes happen to good teams. Plus looks like for now we're a zone team.
DallasBear9902
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The VJ block on the dunk attempt looked clean from about 35 feet away. Arena replay didn't show a foul.

Was it a foul?
bear2be2
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Big12Fan2024 said:

bear2be2 said:

Quinton said:

Vj could become an elite offensive rebounder. Best jumper in the country
He's going to be a really good energy guy. I just want him to stop thinking he's an alpha scorer -- at least until the results come much closer to matching that profile.

The physicality of the men's college game makes for a really tough transition for physically immature freshman.

Edgecombe has a bright future, but he's at best the fourth-best scoring option on this team right now. I'd like to see him settle into a support role and focus more on hustle plays and easy stuff at the rim.
To me his niche on O is the proverbial junk guy because he's so athletic he should score a lot on putbacks from karoms off the rim, tip-ins at the rim due to his incredible vertical leap, driving to the basket when he has a mismatch and drawing fouls, things like that. He can contribute 10-12 points a game just doing that. He is definitely not who you want as a set and shoot from the outside guy. And he's definitely not a 3 point guy.
Exactly. He can be an impact player just doing the dirty work and taking advantage of driving/cutting lanes
william
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pro ecclesia, pro javelina
bear2be2
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DallasBear9902 said:

The VJ block on the dunk attempt looked clean from about 35 feet away. Arena replay didn't show a foul.

Was it a foul?
I thought that was a terrible call. Looked clean to me from every angle.
BU Born&Raised
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Terry Black!
bear2be2
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BU Born&Raised said:

Terry Black!
That's not a bad comparison. The only major difference is that Terry was much stronger physically, just because he was older and more mature by the time we got him.
BU Born&Raised
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Big12Fan2024 said:

Quinton said:

Vj could become an elite offensive rebounder. Best jumper in the country
Have we ever had anyone who had that much of a vertical leap?


Terry Black
Big12Fan2024
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BU Born&Raised said:

Terry Black!
Yes! Forgot about Terry! He could leap out of the gym too!
Hotsauce
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Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
bear2be2
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Hotsauce said:

Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.
elayer
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And Quincy Acy did have 10 dunks in a game against Texas with Pat Riley in attendance
boognish_bear
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VJ was loading up for another posterizing dunk to seal the game when the ball got knocked out
Big12Fan2024
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The loss Monday night was certainly a jolt to the system because it was so staggering but at the end of the day we finish the week 1-1 and Drew and the team know a hell of a lot more about themselves now and can work on things to improve than we would have known playing the first five games against Ouachita Baptist, NW State, Nicholls St, Prairie View and Abilene Christian.

It may have been a good idea to open with one creampuff to get their feet on the floor when trying man-to-man D but it is what it is.
Bear8084
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Those were grown men on the court tonight. Great bounce back win! Sic 'Em!
Killing Floor
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Great win. Sic'em
Let’s Go!
Quinton
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VJ will come around. His skills were still developing, that was known on the scout. But he is better than he's shown so far. Will get there.
DP4LIFE
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Quinton said:

VJ will come around. His skills were still developing, that was known on the scout. But he is better than he's shown so far. Will get there.
Agreed. Takes a while for the game to slow down jumping to D1. VJ will be fine.
Really impressed with Wright's comfort dribbling in traffic as a freshman. He's very poised.
BUCANDOIT82
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You know little about basketball. He has court vision and can pass. He will be the best athlete on the floor every game this season. We will not play another team as athletic as Arkansas.
bear2be2
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BUCANDOIT82 said:

You know little about basketball. He has court vision and can pass. He will be the best athlete on the floor every game this season. We will not play another team as athletic as Arkansas.
No one has said he's not athletic. But anyone suggesting he's an exceptionally skilled offensive basketball player is as worthy of ignoring as you are with your constant nonsense here.
DallasBear9902
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Y'all need to remember Henry Dugat
historian
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I hope somebody posts online a video of the complete game for those of us who don't have ESPNU.
boognish_bear
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Stefano DiMera
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I think I've been to every game we've played at AAC and this seemed to be the best BU support by far .
Crawfoso1973
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bear2be2 said:

Hotsauce said:

Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.
And to be fair to Edge, I didn't see him a 3 point attempt out of the context of the offense. Our offense just needs to find ways to keep him playing downhill instead of standing at the 3 point line. Downhill is where his quickness and athleticism cannot be contained. He also has terrific vision and the ability to create for others. Had a couple terrific assists last night.
bear2be2
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Crawfoso1973 said:

bear2be2 said:

Hotsauce said:

Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.
And to be fair to Edge, I didn't see him a 3 point attempt out of the context of the offense. Our offense just needs to find ways to keep him playing downhill instead of standing at the 3 point line. Downhill is where his quickness and athleticism cannot be contained. He also has terrific vision and the ability to create for others. Had a couple terrific assists last night.
He wasn't taking bad shots. They were just bad shots for a poor shooter.

At some point, there's a reason you're being left open. The defense views those shots as wins for them.

Like Walter, I don't think Edge is selfish. I think as a blue-chip, sure-fire one-and-done, he has a vision of himself and his game that isn't exactly accurate at the high-major college level. These guys come in with a ton of confidence based on what they've done at lower levels or even in the much less physical international game and need to have their role massaged over time.

We don't do enough role massaging in our program IMO, but the thing I like about VJ is that he will be much better equipped than either George or Walter were to contribute in significant ways when he's struggling to score. His athleticism and motor are both potential difference-makers with or without the type of skill we've seen from our last two blue chip guards.

He just needs to slow down a tick or two. He plays way too fast, which leads to poor, out-of-control decisions at times.
TWD 1974
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bear2be2 said:

Crawfoso1973 said:

bear2be2 said:

Hotsauce said:

Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.
And to be fair to Edge, I didn't see him a 3 point attempt out of the context of the offense. Our offense just needs to find ways to keep him playing downhill instead of standing at the 3 point line. Downhill is where his quickness and athleticism cannot be contained. He also has terrific vision and the ability to create for others. Had a couple terrific assists last night.
He wasn't taking bad shots. They were just bad shots for a poor shooter.

At some point, there's a reason you're being left open. The defense views those shots as wins for them.

Like Walter, I don't think Edge is selfish. I think as a blue-chip, sure-fire one-and-done, he has a vision of himself and his game that isn't exactly accurate at the high-major college level. These guys come in with a ton of confidence based on what they've done at lower levels or even in the much less physical international game and need to have their role massaged over time.

We don't do enough role massaging in our program IMO, but the thing I like about VJ is that he will be much better equipped than either George or Walter were to contribute in significant ways when he's struggling to score. His athleticism and motor are both potential difference-makers with or without the type of skill we've seen from our last two blue chip guards.

He just needs to slow down a tick or two. He plays way too fast, which leads to poor, out-of-control decisions at times.
"role massaging" ...?
boognish_bear
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It's got to be a tough balancing act for Drew. When you bring in one of the top recruits they aren't coming to be a second or third option on offense....but their game maturity may dictate that's the role they should play.

But...if Drew really throttles back the role of a Walter or Edge it makes less likely future top players are going to want to come here.

Double edged sword of the one and done game.
bear2be2
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Big12Fan2024 said:

bear2be2 said:

Quinton said:

Vj could become an elite offensive rebounder. Best jumper in the country
He's going to be a really good energy guy. I just want him to stop thinking he's an alpha scorer -- at least until the results come much closer to matching that profile.

The physicality of the men's college game makes for a really tough transition for physically immature freshman.

Edgecombe has a bright future, but he's at best the fourth-best scoring option on this team right now. I'd like to see him settle into a support role and focus more on hustle plays and easy stuff at the rim.
To me his niche on O is the proverbial junk guy because he's so athletic he should score a lot on putbacks from karoms off the rim, tip-ins at the rim due to his incredible vertical leap, driving to the basket when he has a mismatch and drawing fouls, things like that. He can contribute 10-12 points a game just doing that. He is definitely not who you want as a set and shoot from the outside guy. And he has never been noted as a strong 3 point guy. But he brings so many other things.
Thinking more about this post today, and more freshman need to be like Jeremy Sochan. No one would look at his freshman year stats and think, "Man, this guy's a super star," but he was the best player on that team IMO because he focused on being the absolute best he could be at the things he did well.

He played the perfect role for that 2022 team and didn't try to do more than he was able to do ... and lo and behold, the NBA noticed and rewarded him handsomely for that.

You don't have to put up 15-20 points a game to be an elite college player. Sochan didn't even average double figures. But everyone who watched that Baylor team knew he was the heart and soul of it.

VJ doesn't have Sochan's skill, but like Sochan, he can impact the game in a lot of different ways. If he focuses more on that and less on trying to get his own offense, I think his value will shine through regardless of what his final stat line shows.
bear2be2
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TWD 1974 said:

bear2be2 said:

Crawfoso1973 said:

bear2be2 said:

Hotsauce said:

Love the pieces on this team.

There are the typical freshman downsides to Wright, but I love this kid. Reminds me of tweety, dare I say.

I think VJ will end up being this fanbase's favorite 1-and-done.
He'll have a hard time surpassing Jeremy Sochan for me. And Missi is my current No. 2.

But I think I will like his game much more than I liked Keyonte George's or Ja'Kobe Walter's.
And to be fair to Edge, I didn't see him a 3 point attempt out of the context of the offense. Our offense just needs to find ways to keep him playing downhill instead of standing at the 3 point line. Downhill is where his quickness and athleticism cannot be contained. He also has terrific vision and the ability to create for others. Had a couple terrific assists last night.
He wasn't taking bad shots. They were just bad shots for a poor shooter.

At some point, there's a reason you're being left open. The defense views those shots as wins for them.

Like Walter, I don't think Edge is selfish. I think as a blue-chip, sure-fire one-and-done, he has a vision of himself and his game that isn't exactly accurate at the high-major college level. These guys come in with a ton of confidence based on what they've done at lower levels or even in the much less physical international game and need to have their role massaged over time.

We don't do enough role massaging in our program IMO, but the thing I like about VJ is that he will be much better equipped than either George or Walter were to contribute in significant ways when he's struggling to score. His athleticism and motor are both potential difference-makers with or without the type of skill we've seen from our last two blue chip guards.

He just needs to slow down a tick or two. He plays way too fast, which leads to poor, out-of-control decisions at times.
"role massaging" ...?
Guys come in thinking they're alpha scorers and lead us in field goal attempts while shooting sub-40 percent from the field and sub-34 percent from 3. That mentality needs to be massaged out of those players, so more efficient players can get more shots.

We don't do a very good job IMO of holding guys accountable on the court. This is especially true on defense, where our effort/intensity at times would get guys kicked out of the gym by someone like Kelvin Simpson. But it's true on offense too. We seem more concerned at times about making sure certain players are playing the roles they want to play to showcase themselves for the next level than we are about putting the best/most efficient team we can on the court every night.
 
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