I think he has to raise support each year and I've heard anecdotally he asked for more at the end to land Celestine. Based on the players on this year's team I would guess the total budget is in the neighborhood of $4m but that could be way off. Most of that to ormier, roach, vj, wright maybe a distant fourth. Just my guess.
The joy is gone
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Last: 1 yr ago by Adriacus Peratuun
Ewalker80 said:
I think he has to raise support each year and I've heard anecdotally he asked for more at the end to land Celestine. Based on the players on this year's team I would guess the total budget is in the neighborhood of $4m but that could be way off. Most of that to ormier, roach, vj, wright maybe a distant fourth. Just my guess.
Whoever paid for Celestine has to feel like an absolute sucker.
There are 80 projected starters in this week's Sweet 16.
— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) March 25, 2025
36 were members of their respective programs last season.
35 are transfers.
9 are freshmen.
They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts did no such thing. They've only ruled that colleges can't limit the amount of educational benefits a student can receive, such as computers, tutoring, paid internships, etc. It had nothing to do with the straight cash pay for play schemes we're seeing now in the form of colleges procuring farce NIL contracts for their players instead of having them procuring it for themselves independently, which virtually no one had a problem with. The NCAA just sat back and allowed that complete ruse until it was pointless to pretend it was anything but, and so now they're allowing the colleges to unabashedly pay the players directly. The courts didn't turn it into pro sports. The NCAA, the colleges, and the players did.bear2be2 said:The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts haven't "only ruled" anything. We're talking about dozens of challenges since the Ed O'Bannon case in 2009, and the courts have consistently ruled that the NCAA is essentially an illegal cartel with no authority to limit college athletes' ability to earn on their name, image or likeness.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts did no such thing. They've only ruled that colleges can't limit the amount of educational benefits a student can receive, such as computers, tutoring, paid internships, etc. It had nothing to do with the straight cash pay for play schemes we're seeing now in the form of colleges procuring farce NIL contracts for their players instead of having them procuring it for themselves independently, which virtually no one had a problem with. The NCAA just sat back and allowed that complete ruse until it was pointless to pretend it was anything but, and so now they're allowing the colleges to unabashedly pay the players directly. The courts didn't turn it into pro sports. The NCAA, the colleges, and the players did.bear2be2 said:The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts have taken away any ability the NCAA ever had to regulate or enforce its amateurism rules, which is why the NCAA has essentially thrown up its hands and stopped trying.
This current environment is a direct product of the courts' many rulings against the NCAA, and the many lawsuits still pending that the NCAA knows it will lose.
My biggest issue with the CBB transfer portal is not the lack of cinderellas in the tournament.
— Brandon Zimmerman (@BZSEC) March 26, 2025
The portal makes each team unrecognizable at the start of each season. Who are these players? Where did the old ones go? Every team has 10 new guys. Is this new guy a freshman or a…
Now that the NCAA has basically blown up college sports without any planned roll out or vision of an end game….it would be a GREAT time to examine the prospect of total conference realignment for Olympic Sports (where there is NO revenue). I get so tired of hearing that everyone…
— Marsha Lycan (@mlycan12) March 26, 2025
Or a Union?bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
The courts have only ruled that the NCAA can't enforce it's amateurism rules to the extent that they prohibit educational benefits that go beyond tuition, board, and stipend, and by prohibiting athletes from receiving monetary compensation for use of their name, image, and likeness, such as on video games. There is no court ruling that says since the colleges make a lot of money from sports, they must operate like pro sports and pay for play like the pros, and thus completely destroy all semblance of amateurism where it really matters, which is the main draw of their sports and the whole reason they generate such high revenue in the first place, ironically. The NCAA is just doing that to themselves.bear2be2 said:The courts haven't "only ruled" anything. We're talking about dozens of challenges since the Ed O'Bannon case in 2009, and the courts have consistently ruled that the NCAA is essentially an illegal cartel with no authority to limit college athletes' ability to earn on their name, image or likeness.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts did no such thing. They've only ruled that colleges can't limit the amount of educational benefits a student can receive, such as computers, tutoring, paid internships, etc. It had nothing to do with the straight cash pay for play schemes we're seeing now in the form of colleges procuring farce NIL contracts for their players instead of having them procuring it for themselves independently, which virtually no one had a problem with. The NCAA just sat back and allowed that complete ruse until it was pointless to pretend it was anything but, and so now they're allowing the colleges to unabashedly pay the players directly. The courts didn't turn it into pro sports. The NCAA, the colleges, and the players did.bear2be2 said:The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts have taken away any ability the NCAA ever had to regulate or enforce its amateurism rules, which is why the NCAA has essentially thrown up its hands and stopped trying.
This current environment is a direct product of the courts' many rulings against the NCAA, and the many lawsuits still pending that the NCAA knows it will lose.
This isn't remotely true.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts have only ruled that the NCAA can't enforce it's amateurism rules to the extent that they prohibit educational benefits that go beyond tuition, board, and stipend, and by prohibiting athletes from receiving monetary compensation for use of their name, image, and likeness, such as on video games. There is no court ruling that says since the colleges make a lot of money from sports, they must operate like pro sports and pay for play like the pros, and thus completely destroy all semblance of amateurism where it really matters, which is the main draw of their sports and the whole reason they generate such high revenue in the first place, ironically. The NCAA is just doing that to themselves.bear2be2 said:The courts haven't "only ruled" anything. We're talking about dozens of challenges since the Ed O'Bannon case in 2009, and the courts have consistently ruled that the NCAA is essentially an illegal cartel with no authority to limit college athletes' ability to earn on their name, image or likeness.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts did no such thing. They've only ruled that colleges can't limit the amount of educational benefits a student can receive, such as computers, tutoring, paid internships, etc. It had nothing to do with the straight cash pay for play schemes we're seeing now in the form of colleges procuring farce NIL contracts for their players instead of having them procuring it for themselves independently, which virtually no one had a problem with. The NCAA just sat back and allowed that complete ruse until it was pointless to pretend it was anything but, and so now they're allowing the colleges to unabashedly pay the players directly. The courts didn't turn it into pro sports. The NCAA, the colleges, and the players did.bear2be2 said:The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts have taken away any ability the NCAA ever had to regulate or enforce its amateurism rules, which is why the NCAA has essentially thrown up its hands and stopped trying.
This current environment is a direct product of the courts' many rulings against the NCAA, and the many lawsuits still pending that the NCAA knows it will lose.
The NCAA tried to keep NIL from being used as an inducement. The courts said they didn't have that authority. Starting with the O'Bannon case, the courts have consistently ruled against the NCAA's authority to make or enforce any rule that limits an athlete's ability to earn.
We can act dumb and pretend that college football growing into a billion dollar industry has nothing to do with the relatively sudden proliferation of legal challenges and the courts' general antipathy toward the NCAA, but we'd be doing exactly that. It's the sports' insane revenue that makes the NIL earnings possible.
You should really do more reading on the subject. Here are some good places to start.
https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-ncaa-lawsuit-nil-7ecfad9c88f8c8baa7e0f4bb00f22ec9
https://apnews.com/article/ncaa-lawsuits-d3abf6cdbe606668eb9a91ffd2218f72
There is nothing in your links that says I'm wrong. The courts ruled that the NCAA can't prohibit athletes from acquiring third party NIL deals independently, not that the schools themselves must directly pay for play and become pro sports, or even acquire the athlete's third party NIL deals for them. If the NCAA would prohibit colleges from doing this as part of their recruitment, then what court ruling stops them?bear2be2 said:This isn't remotely true.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts have only ruled that the NCAA can't enforce it's amateurism rules to the extent that they prohibit educational benefits that go beyond tuition, board, and stipend, and by prohibiting athletes from receiving monetary compensation for use of their name, image, and likeness, such as on video games. There is no court ruling that says since the colleges make a lot of money from sports, they must operate like pro sports and pay for play like the pros, and thus completely destroy all semblance of amateurism where it really matters, which is the main draw of their sports and the whole reason they generate such high revenue in the first place, ironically. The NCAA is just doing that to themselves.bear2be2 said:The courts haven't "only ruled" anything. We're talking about dozens of challenges since the Ed O'Bannon case in 2009, and the courts have consistently ruled that the NCAA is essentially an illegal cartel with no authority to limit college athletes' ability to earn on their name, image or likeness.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:The courts did no such thing. They've only ruled that colleges can't limit the amount of educational benefits a student can receive, such as computers, tutoring, paid internships, etc. It had nothing to do with the straight cash pay for play schemes we're seeing now in the form of colleges procuring farce NIL contracts for their players instead of having them procuring it for themselves independently, which virtually no one had a problem with. The NCAA just sat back and allowed that complete ruse until it was pointless to pretend it was anything but, and so now they're allowing the colleges to unabashedly pay the players directly. The courts didn't turn it into pro sports. The NCAA, the colleges, and the players did.bear2be2 said:The courts disagree with you ... and have on virtually every case put before them, which is why we're where we are. NIL and the transfer portal weren't decisions made by anyone in college athletics. They were a product of the courts telling these universities, "You either let these athletes make money or get sued into bankruptcy."BusyTarpDuster2017 said:They were never "unpaid", and gained even more than tuition and board in the form of national notoriety and exposure on the back of the national brand built by the college. Pumping pro money into their sport is what builds the very brand that they gain from.bear2be2 said:I've been talking about this for years, maybe decades.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into college sports, which has been going on for decades, never bothered you before. You said it yourself, it was only until this season. Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that is different....bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Stop with your blaming TV money nonsense. That's what made the NCAA tourney such a big deal, and easily accessible to everyone. You're trying really hard to have your cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't make any sense.
This year was just the breaking point because the on-field/on-court product has suffered enough as to affect my enjoyment as a fan.
You can't pump pro sports money into amateur sports and pretend they're still amateur sports. Sooner or later the unpaid will want/demand their fair cut.
You can pump all the money in the world into amateur sports, and it will still remain amateur sports until you start paying the players like pros. Period. It was broken the instant that happened. You may have "talked about it for decades" but it was never really "broken" for you until now. That's what's so weird about your take. Now you have what you've been clamoring for for decades, and now that it's here you're lamenting it. It only took you decades to realize the mistake. But like I said, better late than never.
You don't get to make hundreds of millions of dollars and pay your labor in vouchers and swag, no matter how much you think you should be able to.
These schools' failure to make that realization and unwillingness/inability to create a tenable solution to the obvious resulting problems is why college athletics are in their current anarchic state. The NCAA and its member institutions have no one but themselves to blame.
The courts have taken away any ability the NCAA ever had to regulate or enforce its amateurism rules, which is why the NCAA has essentially thrown up its hands and stopped trying.
This current environment is a direct product of the courts' many rulings against the NCAA, and the many lawsuits still pending that the NCAA knows it will lose.
The NCAA tried to keep NIL from being used as an inducement. The courts said they didn't have that authority. Starting with the O'Bannon case, the courts have consistently ruled against the NCAA's authority to make or enforce any rule that limits an athlete's ability to earn.
We can act dumb and pretend that college football growing into a billion dollar industry has nothing to do with the relatively sudden proliferation of legal challenges and the courts' general antipathy toward the NCAA, but we'd be doing exactly that. It's the sports' insane revenue that makes the NIL earnings possible.
You should really do more reading on the subject. Here are some good places to start.
https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-ncaa-lawsuit-nil-7ecfad9c88f8c8baa7e0f4bb00f22ec9
https://apnews.com/article/ncaa-lawsuits-d3abf6cdbe606668eb9a91ffd2218f72
We have disagreed a lot over the years, but could not agree more with this or with OP.IowaBear said:
Unfortunately NIl has ruined collegiate athletics. The original concept of nil was a great idea. However, that concept is no more. Really never was if we're being honest. It's just pay for play now. No relationships built with staffs or programs over the course of 4 years. Players now are just hired mercenaries. It's essentially a lame version of pro sports.
bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Agree. The adults were fine making millions upon millions off the backs of players who were after all getting a free education. We all know that college has for the most part been a de facto minor-league system for professional basketball, so the players do deserve to be better rewarded for the fruits of their labor than simply a few thousand dollars for their education. The adults should have been less greedy and figured out a better system than the free for all that we see now.
I'm not nearly as concerned long-term as many if you seem to be. We're in a transition period as coaches, players, and schools figure out how to navigate the new rules. It sucks right now. I agree with everyone in this thread on that point.
But, at some stage, there will be some regulation, whether it's rev sharing, salary caps, contracts, players as employees, etc. and we'll have a stable system. When the system is stable, we've shown we can be competitive.
My only other point is for those who are saying "these guys get a college education, that's value enough!" It's not. When TV contacts were in the hundreds of thousands per conference, giving someone a $30-50k education is more than commensurate with their contribution. When TV contacts are in the literal billions per conference, with millions more in corporate sponsorships, telling someone they should be happy with their $100-300k education over 4 years rings a bit hollow. When everyone else is getting rich off your efforts except for you, that's a problem.
But, at some stage, there will be some regulation, whether it's rev sharing, salary caps, contracts, players as employees, etc. and we'll have a stable system. When the system is stable, we've shown we can be competitive.
My only other point is for those who are saying "these guys get a college education, that's value enough!" It's not. When TV contacts were in the hundreds of thousands per conference, giving someone a $30-50k education is more than commensurate with their contribution. When TV contacts are in the literal billions per conference, with millions more in corporate sponsorships, telling someone they should be happy with their $100-300k education over 4 years rings a bit hollow. When everyone else is getting rich off your efforts except for you, that's a problem.
"a few thousand dollars for their education"????? At Baylor alone, this would amount to well over $200,000 if they finished in 4 years, which many don't. Either take the free education, room, board, books, tutoring, first in line for class schedules, travel and other perks (apparel, etc.) OR get paid by NIL and pay for your own education and the expenses that go along with it.Chuckroast said:bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Agree. The adults were fine making millions upon millions off the backs of players who were after all getting a free education. We all know that college has for the most part been a de facto minor-league system for professional basketball, so the players do deserve to be better rewarded for the fruits of their labor than simply a few thousand dollars for their education. The adults should have been less greedy and figured out a better system than the free for all that we see now.
Your last paragraph is spot on.Mitch Henessey said:
I'm not nearly as concerned long-term as many if you seem to be. We're in a transition period as coaches, players, and schools figure out how to navigate the new rules. It sucks right now. I agree with everyone in this thread on that point.
But, at some stage, there will be some regulation, whether it's rev sharing, salary caps, contracts, players as employees, etc. and we'll have a stable system. When the system is stable, we've shown we can be competitive.
My only other point is for those who are saying "these guys get a college education, that's value enough!" It's not. When TV contacts were in the hundreds of thousands per conference, giving someone a $30-50k education is more than commensurate with their contribution. When TV contacts are in the literal billions per conference, with millions more in corporate sponsorships, telling someone they should be happy with their $100-300k education over 4 years rings a bit hollow. When everyone else is getting rich off your efforts except for you, that's a problem.
And while you're likely right that we'll eventually arrive at a stable system, I don't see it happening anytime soon. I don't see this settlement having any staying power, and there's no incentive whatsoever for the schools to come up with something better on their own because they currently get to privatize their revenue and socialize their expenses through NIL.
They'll drag their feet as long as they possibly can and continue to have their boosters foot the payroll so they don't have to.
bear2b2 said, "The spirit of college athletics is dead.
I don't think anyone could have pinned the current new era of college sports any better than this.
I don't think anyone could have pinned the current new era of college sports any better than this.
You guys are only looking at the gross revenue generated for the college from its sports. But what about the net revenue after all operational costs? In 2019 for example, for the majority of D1 schools it was actually a net loss.Mitch Henessey said:
I'm not nearly as concerned long-term as many if you seem to be. We're in a transition period as coaches, players, and schools figure out how to navigate the new rules. It sucks right now. I agree with everyone in this thread on that point.
But, at some stage, there will be some regulation, whether it's rev sharing, salary caps, contracts, players as employees, etc. and we'll have a stable system. When the system is stable, we've shown we can be competitive.
My only other point is for those who are saying "these guys get a college education, that's value enough!" It's not. When TV contacts were in the hundreds of thousands per conference, giving someone a $30-50k education is more than commensurate with their contribution. When TV contacts are in the literal billions per conference, with millions more in corporate sponsorships, telling someone they should be happy with their $100-300k education over 4 years rings a bit hollow. When everyone else is getting rich off your efforts except for you, that's a problem.
mcleod66 said:"a few thousand dollars for their education"????? At Baylor alone, this would amount to well over $200,000 if they finished in 4 years, which many don't. Either take the free education, room, board, books, tutoring, first in line for class schedules, travel and other perks (apparel, etc.) OR get paid by NIL and pay for your own education and the expenses that go along with it.Chuckroast said:bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Agree. The adults were fine making millions upon millions off the backs of players who were after all getting a free education. We all know that college has for the most part been a de facto minor-league system for professional basketball, so the players do deserve to be better rewarded for the fruits of their labor than simply a few thousand dollars for their education. The adults should have been less greedy and figured out a better system than the free for all that we see now.
A great academic student can get a free ride at Baylor, and all they have to do is go to class. Yet, a great basketball player not only has to go to class but also has to work a full-time job that makes his employer millions of dollars. And you're saying he is entitled to nothing extra for his full-time job? Many of these players may never even do anything with the education they were required to get. Yet you are advocating that their $60,000 a year annual salary be spent on education and that they should be content with that.
bear2be2 said:Your last paragraph is spot on.Mitch Henessey said:
I'm not nearly as concerned long-term as many if you seem to be. We're in a transition period as coaches, players, and schools figure out how to navigate the new rules. It sucks right now. I agree with everyone in this thread on that point.
But, at some stage, there will be some regulation, whether it's rev sharing, salary caps, contracts, players as employees, etc. and we'll have a stable system. When the system is stable, we've shown we can be competitive.
My only other point is for those who are saying "these guys get a college education, that's value enough!" It's not. When TV contacts were in the hundreds of thousands per conference, giving someone a $30-50k education is more than commensurate with their contribution. When TV contacts are in the literal billions per conference, with millions more in corporate sponsorships, telling someone they should be happy with their $100-300k education over 4 years rings a bit hollow. When everyone else is getting rich off your efforts except for you, that's a problem.
And while you're likely right that we'll eventually arrive at a stable system, I don't see it happening anytime soon. I don't see this settlement having any staying power, and there's no incentive whatsoever for the schools to come up with something better on their own because they currently get to privatize their revenue and socialize their expenses through NIL.
They'll drag their feet as long as they possibly can and continue to have their boosters foot the payroll so they don't have to.
And the crazy thing is, I think they are trying to maintain separation by requiring that NIL money be payable by boosters so that they can claim that college sports are still for amateurs.
Yes, a great academic student CAN get a free ride at Baylor, but they have to do much more than go to class. They have to prepare, study and maintain a very high GPA to KEEP that "free ride," whereas the required GPA to keep your athletic scholarship is much lower. So to act like they just have to "go to class" is disingenuous. Only one sport (baseball) in college athletics had more than 2% of their players go on to play in a professional league. So yes, I still believe that you as a student/athlete should either take your "free ride" to school for 4-6 years (some end up with post graduate degrees) or get paid NIL money but not both. Based on statistics, 98% of student athletes might be wise to choose the education so that helps them further down the road. But hey, many disagree; and unfortunately, I don't see anything changing save for the continued erosion of fan support of college athletics since they've turned into minor/G leagues with the illusion of the student part of the equation being essentially erased.Chuckroast said:mcleod66 said:"a few thousand dollars for their education"????? At Baylor alone, this would amount to well over $200,000 if they finished in 4 years, which many don't. Either take the free education, room, board, books, tutoring, first in line for class schedules, travel and other perks (apparel, etc.) OR get paid by NIL and pay for your own education and the expenses that go along with it.Chuckroast said:bear2be2 said:The problem isn't paying the players. The problem is those in charge of college athletics denying reality and dragging their feet so long on paying players that we've been left with an orderless mess that bears little resemblance to the college athletics landscape that drew most of us in.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
This is so rich. The same ones who unabashedly supported colleges paying for players are now the same ones bemoaning the inevitable fruit of it.
It didn't take much foresight to be able to see all this coming the moment NIL was instituted. Many of us did, and were disillusioned long before this basketball season.
Well, I guess better late than never.
This isn't on the players. This is on the adults, who ruined the sports we love by infusing hundreds of millions of TV dollars into the equation and acting like that wasn't going to cause significant issues.
Agree. The adults were fine making millions upon millions off the backs of players who were after all getting a free education. We all know that college has for the most part been a de facto minor-league system for professional basketball, so the players do deserve to be better rewarded for the fruits of their labor than simply a few thousand dollars for their education. The adults should have been less greedy and figured out a better system than the free for all that we see now.
A great academic student can get a free ride at Baylor, and all they have to do is go to class. Yet, a great basketball player not only has to go to class but also has to work a full-time job that makes his employer millions of dollars. And you're saying he is entitled to nothing extra for his full-time job? Many of these players may never even do anything with the education they were required to get. Yet you are advocating that their $60,000 a year annual salary be spent on education and that they should be content with that.
Nebraska has a bill to amend its NIL law that’s gone under the radar.
— Mit Winter (@WinterSportsLaw) March 27, 2025
It gives athletes the right to enter into deals with collectives & says the NCAA can’t prohibit/interfere with that right.
It also says the NCAA can’t require athletes or schools to disclose 3rd party deals. pic.twitter.com/eJNR3ZCbaV
College coaches making $10 million dollars a year is an absurdity. Of course there are then no net profits to share with players. The present system is crazy right now, but the old system was shameful and wrong.
Indiana has ZERO players left 🤯
— College Basketball Report (@CBKReport) March 28, 2025
Mackenzie Mgbako — Portal
Myles Rice — Portal
Malik Reneau — Portal
Bryson Tucker — Portal
Kanaan Carlyle — Portal
Jakai Newton — Portal
Gabe Cupps — OSU
Oumar Ballo — Grad
Luke Goode — Grad
Trey Galloway — Grad
Anthony Leal — Grad
None remain. pic.twitter.com/Sv3SFsKKua
FFA0329 said:
College coaches making $10 million dollars a year is an absurdity. Of course there are then no net profits to share with players. The present system is crazy right now, but the old system was shameful and wrong.
But this is a great point. Some people argue that some athletic departments are not that profitable… Which at some schools may be true. But when the best programs can pay their coaches millions of dollars, it just blows my mind that there are people out there arguing that the best players should be happy with no pay and a free education.
Chuckroast said:FFA0329 said:
College coaches making $10 million dollars a year is an absurdity. Of course there are then no net profits to share with players. The present system is crazy right now, but the old system was shameful and wrong.
But this is a great point. Some people argue that some athletic departments are not that profitable… Which at some schools may be true. But when the best programs can pay their coaches millions of dollars, it just blows my mind that there are people out there arguing that the best players should be happy with no pay and a free education.
Exactly. Hey, you get a free education. But remember, you've got to fly to Provo for the game Tuesday night so you'll miss two days of classes, and you've got that huge test on Thursday but the alumni and message board warriors don't care about your test. They need you to be ready for the home game against Kansas on Saturday and if you commit a bad turnover in the second half or miss the final free throw, good luck having anyone talk to you in class on Monday, and enjoy your free meals in the cafeteria while your friends with money go get burgers from Wendy's or nachos from Taco cabana but they can't buy you anything or that would be a violation and you could get suspended for a key game. And when you walk by the book store and people are buying the jersey with your number on it, you aren't going to see any of that money.
But you be happy with that free education.
Call me when remotely any career actually cares about a class you missed that one time.EvilTroyAndAbed said:Chuckroast said:FFA0329 said:
College coaches making $10 million dollars a year is an absurdity. Of course there are then no net profits to share with players. The present system is crazy right now, but the old system was shameful and wrong.
But this is a great point. Some people argue that some athletic departments are not that profitable… Which at some schools may be true. But when the best programs can pay their coaches millions of dollars, it just blows my mind that there are people out there arguing that the best players should be happy with no pay and a free education.
Exactly. Hey, you get a free education. But remember, you've got to fly to Provo for the game Tuesday night so you'll miss two days of classes, and you've got that huge test on Thursday but the alumni and message board warriors don't care about your test. They need you to be ready for the home game against Kansas on Saturday and if you commit a bad turnover in the second half or miss the final free throw, good luck having anyone talk to you in class on Monday, and enjoy your free meals in the cafeteria while your friends with money go get burgers from Wendy's or nachos from Taco cabana but they can't buy you anything or that would be a violation and you could get suspended for a key game. And when you walk by the book store and people are buying the jersey with your number on it, you aren't going to see any of that money.
But you be happy with that free education.
EvilTroy, exactly. I had a good friend whose daughter played volleyball at Midwestern State in Wichita Falls 15 or so years ago. This is a D 2 school and was volleyball, not basketball or football with all the pressure on coaches and not at any particularly "big time" school of course. Her mom told me she felt as if she was owned by the coach and the program. Her every waking minute was programmed and controlled by the coach. And who knows even how much of a scholarship she was getting at D 2. At least the coach who ran her life was not also making $10 million a year at the same time, like at these monster D 1 programs. The Wild West of today now is not sustainable for the schools, the programs or even the athletes, but the old system was often times indentured servitude.
FFA0329 said:
EvilTroy, exactly. I had a good friend whose daughter played volleyball at Midwestern State in Wichita Falls 15 or so years ago. This is a D 2 school and was volleyball, not basketball or football with all the pressure on coaches and not at any particularly "big time" school of course. Her mom told me she felt as if she was owned by the coach and the program. Her every waking minute was programmed and controlled by the coach. And who knows even how much of a scholarship she was getting at D 2. At least the coach who ran her life was not also making $10 million a year at the same time, like at these monster D 1 programs. The Wild West of today now is not sustainable for the schools, the programs or even the athletes, but the old system was often times indentured servitude.
You are now explaining why most parents are wasting tons of time and money trying to turn their kids into a college athlete. There is no end game. It's silly. Nil is not gonna change anything for volleyball players at Midwestern State.
I do think athletes in the two revenue sports at a very limited number of schools should be able to make money. I also think you should probably have multi year contracts, and if you want to be a pro, you're going to get treated like a pro.
I feel this also. It's really sad.Beverly Hills Bear said:
It also feels like the officials are calling the games in favor of the higher seeds due to all the betting and money involved. I could be wrong but looks a bit suspect. Less Cinderella teams if the game is going to be called in favor of the blue bloods will take the joy out of what March Madness is supposed to be about.
OpportunityCost said:I feel this also. It's really sad.Beverly Hills Bear said:
It also feels like the officials are calling the games in favor of the higher seeds due to all the betting and money involved. I could be wrong but looks a bit suspect. Less Cinderella teams if the game is going to be called in favor of the blue bloods will take the joy out of what March Madness is supposed to be about.
I know it's a beaten dead horse, but $$$$$$$$$ & eyeballs on the tube.
🗣️"If you don't want problems -- don't recruit them."
— Will Kunkel (@WillKunkelFOX) March 30, 2025
Houston has grown their program because of their culture. Their culture is not for everyone.
🗣️"I don't recruit entitlement kids."
Kelvin Sampson evaluates THEN recruits. Those are not the same. The player must fit… pic.twitter.com/D3ZETLGZY6
A college coach has the biggest impact on the success of a program. The ones who command such a salary are proven with years and years of success. I agree that college coaches making that much reflect a society that has misordered its priorities, but a college that skimps on a head coach won't have the success, and thus the revenue generating potential to even make the money to begin with that you think the athletes aren't getting. So it's a catch-22 argument.FFA0329 said:
College coaches making $10 million dollars a year is an absurdity. Of course there are then no net profits to share with players. The present system is crazy right now, but the old system was shameful and wrong.
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