Your assuming we beat both WV and Tech. What have you seen that makes you think will beat them ? Our offense is atrocious at times. Again this team is doing remarkable things. But has to raise red flags that was a terrible team that lit up Baylor

Why is there this crazy panic all of the sudden? We played the worst game in a calendar year today. End of story. It's college basketball and that happens to every team, every year. Usually multiple times. Baylor, literally, played it's only dud all season. Washington was fine until the end (also early) and we played good enough to beat 95% of all other teams against KU.

What makes me think we can beat TT and WVU? Is this a real question?

Whose panicking ? No I, but I see red flags and if you can't see them the homerism is too strong. We're a bad 3 point shooting team as a whole. We lack size everywhere on the court (killed us vs wash/Ku) and we have 1 post who can score. Those are glaring holes. If it makes me bad fan for pointing out that are holes are starting to be exposed then so be it

If you honestly don't think we can beat TT and WVU, both of whom are playing way worse than us currently, you are panicking. We might not get both but we absolutely can beat both, mostly because we already have.

What team doesn't have red flags and holes? Even the 96 Bulls had them. Baylor has several holes but they also have several positives that 99% of other teams wish they had.

Sure most teams have several red flags. My point is that ours are easily exposed by match up nightmares. And I didn't even include that were horrendous at the charity stripe. I never said we won't or can't beat them. I fully expect too! But I also expected this team to handle business today.

rudylaw said:

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IowaBear said:

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Yes they did . Can they get it back yes. The hometown is kicking in if you don't think this hurts! The bears will be lucky to go 1-1 this week the way they're playing

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No we didn't. At absolute worst, we're the third overall 1 seed. We're so far ahead of SDSU and Dayton, we can absorb another loss too as long as it's not to KSU or someone in the first round.

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Ugh. That kinda sums up the national basketball race this year.

Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Go be a fan of Kansas then.

BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Only been a B12 since 1996 and we've only been truly competitive for 11 years but do go on. Wouldn't want to brighten your cloudy day.

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Even our best teams have never finished closer than 2 games behind Kansas. Even our Elite Eight teams weren't close to winning it.

Maybe it will eventually happen but we rarely even finish in 3rd place.

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OK, so if you believe we will never ever ever win the B12, why do you stick around? I think that's a fair question. If you can't see what's building here this season, and next year has the potential to be even better, I don't know what to tell you. This loss sucks immensely but we're 25-3 and a 1 seed. Brush it off and move on to Monday.

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I'll be at the game Monday (driving up from Houston) cheering louder than you.

This game has potentially hurt our #1 seed. Can't lose another one.

Sorry for expressing severe disappointment. This year was a great opportunity to take the Big 12 title. Best we have had since we entered the league. And we couldn't pull it off.

Hope we make the Final Four. But I need to stop hoping to win the Big 12. Probably not going to happen.

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It sucks that we only have two conference losses this late in the season and it's happening the same season that Kansas is having its best season in years. When they win the conference normally, it's with 3-4 losses.

But no, it's all about how we're a bunch of chokers and we'll never win the conference. It's not how the other team is having an incredible season as well.

IowaBear said:

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Yes they did . Can they get it back yes. The hometown is kicking in if you don't think this hurts! The bears will be lucky to go 1-1 this week the way they're playing

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No, you need to understand how respected Baylor is. Go look at last Monday's rankings. After the loss at home to Kansas, we still got 2 first place votes in each poll and were way ahead of 3rd place in the rankings. On the metrics, especially the Quadrant Wins, the Bears are way ahead of Gonzaga or San Diego State. Today's loss hurts but the Bears are still very much a 1-seed right now.

Of course we're way ahead of the Zags and SDSU in quad 1 wins. They play in the Mt West and the WCC. We were respected. If you don't think will drop in the polls and bracketology your naive. Our margin for error went out the window. To get a 1 seed we have go 2-0 this week. If you don't believe that then you don't watch enough college basketball.

bear2be2 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Only been a B12 since 1996 and we've only been truly competitive for 11 years but do go on. Wouldn't want to brighten your cloudy day.

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Beat me to it.

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Guys, please. I'm well aware the inception of the Big 12 was the 1996-'97 academic year, which frankly makes that stat even more embarrassing since from 1950 (our last men's bball conference title) through 1995-'96 we were in the often weakass (for bball) Southwest Conference. Even Rice won at least one during that time period. Anyway, keep the excuses coming.

IowaBear said:

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Of course we're way ahead of the Zags and SDSU in quad 1 wins. They play in the Mt West and the WCC. We were respected. If you don't think will drop in the polls and bracketology your naive. Our margin for error went out the window. To get a 1 seed we have go 2-0 this week. If you don't believe that then you don't watch enough college basketball.

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Lunardi already said we're staying at the second overall seed no matter what else happens tonight. As for the polls, probably slide to 5. That doesn't matter come next Sunday though. Also, the fact you believe we absolutely must sweep this upcoming week to have any chance at a 1 seed means you don't watch enough college basketball.

Sure according to his projections. He's a big Baylor supporter though. That plays a part. Again I never said we are for sure losing a 1 seed. The margin of error went out the window though. And if you don't believe that you need to take the green and gold shades off.

Funniest comment I've ever seen on SEC officials by Bama beat writer.

IowaBear said:

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Sure according to his projections. He's a big Baylor supporter though. That plays a part. Again I never said we are for sure losing a 1 seed. The margin of error went out the window though. And if you don't believe that you need to take the green and gold shades off.

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Look Iowabear, you are just digging yourself deeper.

Lunardi is not "just a guy", he's one of the most respected analysts in bracketology, so when he says we stay the #2 overall, that's pretty reliable.

Look, everyone here is upset we lost today. We all understand the Bears wanted to win the regular season championship, and losing today made that all but impossible. Worse, it's obvious that if we can lose to TCU, we could lose to Tech and/or West Virginia.

But with that said, we did not get blown out today. Just like the other 2 losses, if any of several things are just a little different, we would win those games. That is, we have been able to win every single game we played this year, meaning we are going to have a good chance at winning the game no matter who we play. No Baylor team before this year has ever been able to say that.

Also, look at what has been happening to other teams. Texas Tech, the 3rd place team, has lost 3 out of its last 5 games, and is not nearly as strong on the road as they are at home. This is good news for Baylor's game on Monday in Waco against Tech.

As for West Virginia, they lost 4 pf their last 5 and 7 of their last 10. They just lost, at home, to OU by 11. If the Bears are focused and hungry, they should win in Morgantown, and claim a good-looking pair of wins to add to their resume.

The Bears are way beyond most teams even sitting on the 2-seed line. So much so that losing 2 of our last 3 games only moves from best overall to #2 overall. This is the consensus of basketball experts, even Jerry Palm who - putting it bluntly - strongly dislikes Baylor and would rank them lower if he could justify doing so.

IowaBear said:

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Whose panicking ? No I, but I see red flags and if you can't see them the homerism is too strong. We're a bad 3 point shooting team as a whole. We lack size everywhere on the court (killed us vs wash/Ku) and we have 1 post who can score. Those are glaring holes. If it makes me bad fan for pointing out that are holes are starting to be exposed then so be it

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You just predicted a home loss to a struggling Tech team and suggested that we couldn't compete with a floundering West Virginia squad. I'd call that panicking.

IowaBear said:

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Sure most teams have several red flags. My point is that ours are easily exposed by match up nightmares. And I didn't even include that were horrendous at the charity stripe. I never said we won't or can't beat them. I fully expect too! But I also expected this team to handle business today.

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Dude, you need to calm down. You're exaggerating every point.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Only been a B12 since 1996 and we've only been truly competitive for 11 years but do go on. Wouldn't want to brighten your cloudy day.

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Even our best teams have never finished closer than 2 games behind Kansas. Even our Elite Eight teams weren't close to winning it.

Maybe it will eventually happen but we rarely even finish in 3rd place.

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OK, so if you believe we will never ever ever win the B12, why do you stick around? I think that's a fair question. If you can't see what's building here this season, and next year has the potential to be even better, I don't know what to tell you. This loss sucks immensely but we're 25-3 and a 1 seed. Brush it off and move on to Monday.

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I'll be at the game Monday (driving up from Houston) cheering louder than you.

This game has potentially hurt our #1 seed. Can't lose another one.

Sorry for expressing severe disappointment. This year was a great opportunity to take the Big 12 title. Best we have had since we entered the league. And we couldn't pull it off.

Hope we make the Final Four. But I need to stop hoping to win the Big 12. Probably not going to happen.

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It sucks that we only have two conference losses this late in the season and it's happening the same season that Kansas is having its best season in years. When they win the conference normally, it's with 3-4 losses.

But no, it's all about how we're a bunch of chokers and we'll never win the conference. It's not how the other team is having an incredible season as well.

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Yep. There's a better than fair chance we lose the conference race to by one game to the No.1 overall seed, and we've got folks here hyperventilating.

Johnny Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Only been a B12 since 1996 and we've only been truly competitive for 11 years but do go on. Wouldn't want to brighten your cloudy day.

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Beat me to it.

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Guys, please. I'm well aware the inception of the Big 12 was the 1996-'97 academic year, which frankly makes that stat even more embarrassing since from 1950 (our last men's bball conference title) through 1995-'96 we were in the often weakass (for bball) Southwest Conference. Even Rice won at least one during that time period. Anyway, keep the excuses coming.

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You're way too easily embarrassed.

IowaBear said:

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Again I never said we are for sure losing a 1 seed.

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You absolutely did. That's pretty much the reason this thread is still going.

Oldbear83 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Sure according to his projections. He's a big Baylor supporter though. That plays a part. Again I never said we are for sure losing a 1 seed. The margin of error went out the window though. And if you don't believe that you need to take the green and gold shades off.

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Look Iowabear, you are just digging yourself deeper.

Lunardi is not "just a guy", he's one of the most respected analysts in bracketology, so when he says we stay the #2 overall, that's pretty reliable.

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Not just that, he says that we'll move down in bracketology and if you don't think so, you're naive. It's then pointed out that Lunardi didn't move them at all. Still not good enough for IowaBear!

I guess we should all just be jumping with joy about crapping the bed today. Call it what you want we crapped the bed. And anyone who doesn't see red flags just doesn't want to see them. The FT shooting is a glaring weakness, the lack of size is glaring and so is the fact we have one legit lost scorer. Again this team is doing amazing things but teams have figured Baylor out. And last I checked lunardi has no final say in the brackets. I've never seen his final projection be even close to the actual bracket

If you're gonna keep digging, IowaBear, let me know if you find oil or dino fossils. Might was well do something useful while you're at it.

And for accuracy, maybe you should consider changing your username to IowaEeyore.

IowaBear said:

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I guess we should all just be jumping with joy about crapping the bed today. Call it what you want we crapped the bed. And anyone who doesn't see red flags just doesn't want to see them. The FT shooting is a glaring weakness, the lack of size is glaring and so is the fact we have one legit lost scorer. Again this team is doing amazing things but teams have figured Baylor out. And last I checked lunardi has no final say in the brackets. I've never seen his final projection be even close to the actual bracket

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The hyperbole in your posts is out of control. Teams have figured us out because we lost by three to top-ranked team in the country and played one really bad half today? None of the other teams we've been sweeping the past month seemed to have figured us out.

We played really poorly in the second half today. It sucked. But there's no such thing as a one-game trend.

I think where this thread got hijacked was when the OP used the word NEVER. Now you have everyone's blood pressure escalating at a rapid pace. Those despondent over the loss agree that we are forever stuck in the vortex of basketball mediocrity. Others are disappointed with the loss, but not quite ready to scuttle the program over one bad game. NEVER is never a good way to start a conversation. "Honey, you never take out the trash"..."Dear, you never scratch my itch..." I'm sure when Rhule went 1-11 there were plenty of NEVER go to the Sugar Bowl or when Grant Teaff ended his first season in 1971 there were plenty of never win the SWC. A true Baylor Fan only has one mantra......I BELIEVE.....and I believe we WILL win a Big XII basketball title. I don't know when, but I believe.

BU82EX said:

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I think where this thread got hijacked was when the OP used the word NEVER. Now you have everyone's blood pressure escalating at a rapid pace. Those despondent over the loss agree that we are forever stuck in the vortex of basketball mediocrity. Others are disappointed with the loss, but not quite ready to scuttle the program over one bad game. NEVER is never a good way to start a conversation. "Honey, you never take out the trash"..."Dear, you never scratch my itch..." I'm sure when Rhule went 1-11 there were plenty of NEVER go to the Sugar Bowl or when Grant Teaff ended his first season in 1971 there were plenty of never win the SWC. A true Baylor Fan only has one mantra......I BELIEVE.....and I believe we WILL win a Big XII basketball title. I don't know when, but I believe.

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Shouldn't use the word never. Based on past performance, we have a very low chance over the next 24 years. Hope we get one at some point. If you include this year, we've had 9 tournament appearances in 12 years. All pretty good teams. And this is the only one that even sniffed one.

BearTruth13 said:

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BU82EX said:

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I think where this thread got hijacked was when the OP used the word NEVER. Now you have everyone's blood pressure escalating at a rapid pace. Those despondent over the loss agree that we are forever stuck in the vortex of basketball mediocrity. Others are disappointed with the loss, but not quite ready to scuttle the program over one bad game. NEVER is never a good way to start a conversation. "Honey, you never take out the trash"..."Dear, you never scratch my itch..." I'm sure when Rhule went 1-11 there were plenty of NEVER go to the Sugar Bowl or when Grant Teaff ended his first season in 1971 there were plenty of never win the SWC. A true Baylor Fan only has one mantra......I BELIEVE.....and I believe we WILL win a Big XII basketball title. I don't know when, but I believe.

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Shouldn't use the word never. Based on past performance, we have a very low chance over the next 24 years. Hope we get one at some point. If you include this year, we've had 9 tournament appearances in 12 years. All pretty good teams. And this is the only one that even sniffed one.

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We've had some pretty bad luck with Kansas "going off" in our best seasons.

Our 4 best teams have been 2010, 2012, 2017, and 2020....unfortunately KU has had historically great seasons those years.

Best records in Big XII history (years that coincided with our bees teams are bolded)

1. 16-0 - 2002 Kansas
2. 15-1 - 1997 Kansas, 1998 Kansas, 2010 Kansas
5. 16-2 - 2012 Kansas , 2017 Kansas

If we win 15 Big XII games this year, we'll be the first Big XII school not named Kansas to do that in the history of the league.

If we go 16-2, we will be tied for the 5th best record in Big XII history (out of 270 total). 5th out of 270. We missed a big opportunity today. It's frustrating. But if we go 16-2 and it doesn't result in a conference championship, that's just flat out unlucky.

It's like shooting a 65 on Sunday at a major and then someone shoots a 64 to beat you. You just have to tip your cap at that point.

I commend the folks running this site. They got me to premium with a nice $5 deal, and I haven't left. The content over there is fantastic, and for me, especially the basketball content. It's factual, smart and reasonable discussion and analysis (with a few exceptions). Tons of good stuff.

I come back over here and the people driving these discussions make me want to drive off a cliff and end it. My goodness. Do you people get ANY joy out of our best season ever? Out of a program that is establishing itself nationally? Sweet mercy.

Crash, great stuff. I didn't know those figures. Perspective is important to me. Yes, I'm this way in real life. I don't have emotional fits when I have a rough day. My company would have gone under years ago. Big picture is important.

So I was bummed for a few minutes yesterday because I REALLY want that regular season title. Then I explained to my 7 year old how you don't win them all and the other team has good games, too. Then we went and threw the football in the yard. Life goes on.

We are 25-3. That's fantastic. We all would have taken that before the season - sign us all up. If we then hit the fast forward button to right now, we'd be happy and ready for the post season push. But when you experience a 25-3 season one game at a time, you experience the 3 losses in the process. That seems to be quite difficult for the emotionally unstable among us..

I feel sorry for you.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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rudylaw said:

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You're the loser proclaiming we'll NEVER win the B12.

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Yeah, how absurd. Just because we haven't won one in going on 71 straight seasons shouldn't make anyone feel just a tad bit pessimistic.

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Only been a B12 since 1996 and we've only been truly competitive for 11 years but do go on. Wouldn't want to brighten your cloudy day.

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Even our best teams have never finished closer than 2 games behind Kansas. Even our Elite Eight teams weren't close to winning it.

Maybe it will eventually happen but we rarely even finish in 3rd place.

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OK, so if you believe we will never ever ever win the B12, why do you stick around? I think that's a fair question. If you can't see what's building here this season, and next year has the potential to be even better, I don't know what to tell you. This loss sucks immensely but we're 25-3 and a 1 seed. Brush it off and move on to Monday.

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I'll be at the game Monday (driving up from Houston) cheering louder than you.

This game has potentially hurt our #1 seed. Can't lose another one.

Sorry for expressing severe disappointment. This year was a great opportunity to take the Big 12 title. Best we have had since we entered the league. And we couldn't pull it off.

Hope we make the Final Four. But I need to stop hoping to win the Big 12. Probably not going to happen.

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It sucks that we only have two conference losses this late in the season and it's happening the same season that Kansas is having its best season in years. When they win the conference normally, it's with 3-4 losses.

But no, it's all about how we're a bunch of chokers and we'll never win the conference. It's not how the other team is having an incredible season as well.

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Good post. Your last sentence is key. We are having an incredible season.

In response to OP (& everyone else): never say never. Who knows if Baylor will ever win a conference title. I believe it is possible but that possibility did not end yesterday in Ft Worth. Heck, there is even a slim chance it could happen this year, although it's more likely to happen in the tournament than regular season.

Hey, I just saved hundreds on my car insurance !

Madison Avenue is in another state.

historian said:

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In response to OP (& everyone else): never say never. Who knows if Baylor will ever win a conference title. I believe it is possible but that possibility did not end yesterday in Ft Worth. Heck, there is even a slim chance it could happen this year, although it's more likely to happen in the tournament than regular season.

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Big 12 tournament doesn't really count. It is nice but unless a team is desperate to improve seeding, it isn't going to go all out. Hence Kansas has won 11 tournaments vs 18 regular season titles.

BearTruth13 said:

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historian said:

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In response to OP (& everyone else): never say never. Who knows if Baylor will ever win a conference title. I believe it is possible but that possibility did not end yesterday in Ft Worth. Heck, there is even a slim chance it could happen this year, although it's more likely to happen in the tournament than regular season.

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Big 12 tournament doesn't really count. It is nice but unless a team is desperate to improve seeding, it isn't going to go all out. Hence Kansas has won 11 tournaments vs 18 regular season titles.

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Basically, we had three goals; win the regular season title, win the tournament, make the Final Four, none of which has yet happened for Scott Drew.

We were hoping for all three this season. The first is now unlikely but the other two are very much within our grasp.

Beartruth13 reminds me of Kim Mulkey who goes around telling her supporters and the men's basketball players that they will never win a conference or national title because she dominates in an uncompetitive sport where programs just literally check the box so they can comply with Title IX.

In MBB, it is different. You have teams trying really hard to win. Some try so hard that they pay players. Kudos to a program like Kansas State for winning a title last year without having to cheat. We know Kansas has been paying guys and cheating their butts off for years. This may be Self's last year at KU.

TCU had an AAU middleman say in federal court, "they all cheat at TCU, every $%#!%!!$ one of them."

Texas Tech's Glenn Cyprien disappeared from a $400k per year job this spring to take his dream job as a $80k per year assistant on the Nigerian national team. Tech's recruiting had never been better than when Cyprien took that job as an assistant there after stints at A&M, UNLV, Memphis, Kentucky and Oklahoma State. To replace Cyprien, the Red Raiders turned to Ulric Maligli who was fired from SMU for cheating improprieties centered around Keith Frazier.

It might be hard to beat Kansas if they didn't cheat and didn't have the refs and Big12 office in their pocket. Some have been able to do it or "share" the title. Baylor is still in the hunt. Win the next 2 and see if Texas Tech can pull off the upset in Lubbock next Saturday.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that the Bears laid an egg in Fort Worth this weekend, but it happens to some really great programs like Duke for example.

Fun fact: John Wooden didn't win a national championship until his 18th year of coaching. Drew is in his current 18th year of coaching. Jay Wright didn't win one until his 22nd year of coaching. Just enjoy the fact that we have a great coach that does things the right way and that we are freaking 25-3 and a top 5 team in the country and try to be good fans.

Fozzie said:

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Beartruth13 reminds me of Kim Mulkey who goes around telling her supporters and the men's basketball players that they will never win a conference or national title because she dominates in an uncompetitive sport where programs just literally check the box so they can comply with Title IX.

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While I realize comparing women's bball to men's bball is an apples and oranges type thing, I get tired of people trying to minimize Kim Mulkey's incredible accomplishments as if they're really nothing which is usually done in an attempt to prop up Drew's (to date) lack of championships (other than the who cares NIT) or final four appearances. The lady is phenomenal and I have give her tremendous credit for the fact that since her arrival we've become true nationally relevant players in multiple sports in addition to women's basketball. She deserves nothing but our respect and gratitude for what she has done for BU instead of assuming we dominate in women's bball simply because nobody else cares.