IowaBear said:br53 said:
Delay it two weeks then play the top 16 teams by ranking.
Problem with that is that it's not fair to the mid majors who make March madness what it is
I always thought conference tournaments were a farce anway, as well as a 68 team tournament field, design primarily to sell a lot of tickets and bring in buckets of revenue more than having a reasonable tournament of the best teams that actually have a legitimate shot.historian said:
Wouldn't such a bracket be premature/incomplete without the conference championship games? We know the results of the first 2 games for the Big 12 but not the rest which are far more important. For instance, if Baylor had beaten Kansas in the Big 12 title game (certainly possible), then we would be the conference champs, the #1 team in the conference, and possibly would be back to #1 nationally.
bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
This is now twice that you have flown off the handle because you've completely misinterpreted one of my posts.wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
I'm gonna say this one last time. SARCASM ABOUT THIS HAS NO NADA ZERO PLACE HERE. Even if you bluntly say oh by the way this is sarcasm it is still completely out of line. As far as flying off the handle sometimes that is a good thing to make sure people like you understand the that it is wrong to say anything sarcastic about this. I don't dislike you cuz I don't know you, but sometimes you just take the personal attacks way way too far when there is no need to. We are all BU grads and supporters so think about that next time you want to make sarcastic remarks about a virus that has killed thousands and has not peaked yet.bear2be2 said:This is now twice that you have flown off the handle because you've completely misinterpreted one of my posts.wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
Measure twice, cut once, my man. Give these things a second read before posting.
wuzzybear said:I'm gonna say this one last time. SARCASM ABOUT THIS HAS NO NADA ZERO PLACE HERE. Even if you bluntly say oh by the way this is sarcasm it is still completely out of line. As far as flying off the handle sometimes that is a good thing to make sure people like you understand the that it is wrong to say anything sarcastic about this. I don't dislike you cuz I don't know you, but sometimes you just take the personal attacks way way too far when there is no need to. We are all BU grads and supporters so think about that next time you want to make sarcastic remarks about a virus that has killed thousands and has not peaked yet.bear2be2 said:This is now twice that you have flown off the handle because you've completely misinterpreted one of my posts.wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
Measure twice, cut once, my man. Give these things a second read before posting.
Timbear said:
2B2, calm down. Some on here are just tired of you being so obnoxious trying to prove you're the smartest person in the room about everything.
You would think he was from Austin.Timbear said:
2B2, calm down. Some on here are just tired of you being so obnoxious trying to prove you're the smartest person in the room about everything.
Maybe you need something I cannot provide!bear2be2 said:wuzzybear said:I'm gonna say this one last time. SARCASM ABOUT THIS HAS NO NADA ZERO PLACE HERE. Even if you bluntly say oh by the way this is sarcasm it is still completely out of line. As far as flying off the handle sometimes that is a good thing to make sure people like you understand the that it is wrong to say anything sarcastic about this. I don't dislike you cuz I don't know you, but sometimes you just take the personal attacks way way too far when there is no need to. We are all BU grads and supporters so think about that next time you want to make sarcastic remarks about a virus that has killed thousands and has not peaked yet.bear2be2 said:This is now twice that you have flown off the handle because you've completely misinterpreted one of my posts.wuzzybear said:bear2be2: You just can't stop your personal attacks man. What is wrong with you? Someone is giving their opinion based on their observation and knowledge of the data we know and you want him beat in a public square like a Salem with trial. Man, I don't know what your issues are, but we are dealing with the UNKNOWN here. Obviously you prefer to peruse the posts and slam whomever ye shall not agree with. Put me on IGNORE if you don't want to hear the truth.bear2be2 said:Porteroso said:
Obviously he knows the answer, his supposed question is actually a disagreement.
I saw this today. Not hard to see why someone would be somewhat mindful of the outbreak.
I also read that until contained, each person infected (health young/middle aged adults can have this and infect others for weeks, never knowing they had it) will infect 6 others. Gathering large groups around the country, then sending them off to other areas, seems like what you'd do if you were trying to spread the virus on purpose, not contain it.
I do think the tournament should have been played without fans, and televised/streamed for free. Load us up with ads, that's fine, but the risk is much smaller with only the players. That said, the players are going to be sweating, touching, so if even 1 player has it, everyone on both teams would get it, and again, probably never know until they infect their families, and their grandparents start dying. I do understand the fear of it.
Stop propagating hysteria with your facts and data, and take your beating in the public square.
I understand one referee from the Colonial Conf tested postive. No telling who a ref who flies around from venue to venue has come into contact with. Look dude, I get we all want this thing to happen, but I don't really think CV-19 gives a rats arse what you want or think.
If they decided to play it I'd wear a space suit with my own toilet and catheter inside with a week's worth of food for life support to go to the F4. But it ain't happenin' nor should it...at least until it passes. Heck, we don't even know if China did this on purpose and was willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own citizens to see how it works and then they go on a massive disinfectant war and could even have their own vaccine or treatment while the rest of the world goes to hell. There is not another way I can think of short nuclear holocaust to crash a country than a silent biological weapon. We just don't know because they are the masters of propoganda and disinformation and desire world domination. USA has been greedy for so long in exporting all our labor in exchange for cheaper goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost. WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS ENDS UP EXCEPT THE LORD ALMIGHTY !!!
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU.
Measure twice, cut once, my man. Give these things a second read before posting.
Spare me. If you want to lecture someone, lecture the many here who have downplayed the seriousness of this pandemic or prioritized the economy over the lives of our seniors/medically vulnerable.
Getting indignant here because you're too lazy to read an entire thread or incapable of deciphering a post's obvious tone/purpose just makes you look like a sanctimonious ******.
And on a more overarching note, you don't get to decide what others can/can not post here. Just because your delicate sensibilities struggle with sarcasm/satire doesn't make either wrong. If it violates forum rules, report it. If you disagree with the point being made, refute it with your alternative viewpoint. But you're not the arbiter here or anywhere else for what is appropriate/acceptable to post.
Omg the quoting. I've been there a few times, and at one point spent several months in Italy. It's obviously not a 3rd world country, but it and maybe Greece are just a tiny step above that. Their health care system is nowhere near as advanced as in the US. They have some great specialists, but generally it is not on the same level, in any way. It doesn't help that they all smoke and they deal with a lot of end of life issues Americans don't anymore. I'm sure they have heart and lung surgery down to a T.GruntTuff said:Porteroso said:
Did you really say Italy is a third world country? Oh my. Have you ever been there? I've been there 11 times in the past 22 years, in total about half a year. Third world country? Their medical system is as good, or better, than ours.
Last year I had two stents implanted for significant blockage. I had a trip to Italy scheduled for two months later. I asked my very veteran interventional cardiologist if I should go. His answer: if you have a problem over there, you'll get treatment that is as good, or better, than what you will get here.
Densely populated cities? Have you ever been to Rome, Naples, Palermo, Milan? They are all as densely populated as New York City.
I agree with you on the other points you make, but Italy is a very reasonable comparison to the US...and in some ways, as you point out, the unwillingness of Americans to adhere to orders to maintain social distancing is worrisome.
I'm no fan of communism, but there aren't any economic or political systems that mesh particularly well with Christianity, which asks its followers to fight their natures and deny themselves -- particularly where money and power are concerned.wuzzybear said:
I read that Italy is the 4th largest economy in the world. If so, that is surprising. Italy is about indulgence in food, fashion/art, women and of course, the mob. I can see how the European Union is the 4th largest economy combined behind USA, China and Israel, but I always thought Germany alone was the 4th largest economy in the world. I don't know anymore since the Dems have concluded that we don't need borders and are in favor of one-world governance. I sure don't hear them talking about the southern border issues anymore since this virus started. That says RE-ELECT TRUMP like nothing else.
I don't buy the whole China "accident" with CV-19. It had to be a biological warfare program that was either an accident gone horribly wrong or they were willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own to see the effects. There is precedent for that (see 30's Germany and Japan) and for that matter throughout history. Note they are doing a heck of a job with a disinfectant war and thus less cases now or otherwise insurrections would break out like Tienaman Square. They know what they are doing. Communism and Christianity are like oil and water. They don't have the same goals.
It's amazing how much you struggle with nuance and remarkable how consistently you miss the gray between the black and white.Timbear said:
Hey 2B2, how about the fact that Communism bans Christianity and persecutes Christians, while Capitalism gives religious freedom and allows Christians to worship publicly and openly. So you think God does not prefer Capitalism and freedom? You're nuts. If you got your screwed up brain from Baylor, then Baylor is as we knew it is over.
In fairness, you did just say in another thread that "The most tragic effect of this is the economic devastation it is causing."Reverend said:
The lecturing from those who are so much more profoundly concerned about human life than others is wearing me out. My heart feels weak!
Wow...I don't even know how to respond to this. It just gets weirder with you every time. So you really believe that no political system meshes with Christianity??? You cannot be serious. First, in communism everything you own is not yours, it's the states. I think when God created the world He gave us freedom first and foremost via free will and communism and socialism (I don't care what name you give it) does none of that. Cain killed Abel because he failed to find favor with God by NOT giving Him his first fruits of his harvest. That one thing alone is the most satisfying thing to Him because it proves where your heart really is. Try giving your first fruits to God in communist China and see if that doesn't get you sent to a re-education camp!!! I recommend reading Robert Morris' BEYOND THE BLESSED LIFE (chapters 13 and 14). And then study in some detail the parable of talents. 16 of Jesus 39 parables have to do either with wealth, finance, or possessions. To most, it means giving all you have to Christ because He cannot supernaturally bless you if you don't. Where is your argument for giving all you have so that your cup runneth over with blessings galore? It is all supernatural.bear2be2 said:I'm no fan of communism, but there aren't any economic or political systems that mesh particularly well with Christianity, which asks its followers to fight their natures and deny themselves -- particularly where money and power are concerned.wuzzybear said:
I read that Italy is the 4th largest economy in the world. If so, that is surprising. Italy is about indulgence in food, fashion/art, women and of course, the mob. I can see how the European Union is the 4th largest economy combined behind USA, China and Israel, but I always thought Germany alone was the 4th largest economy in the world. I don't know anymore since the Dems have concluded that we don't need borders and are in favor of one-world governance. I sure don't hear them talking about the southern border issues anymore since this virus started. That says RE-ELECT TRUMP like nothing else.
I don't buy the whole China "accident" with CV-19. It had to be a biological warfare program that was either an accident gone horribly wrong or they were willing to sacrifice 1000's of their own to see the effects. There is precedent for that (see 30's Germany and Japan) and for that matter throughout history. Note they are doing a heck of a job with a disinfectant war and thus less cases now or otherwise insurrections would break out like Tienaman Square. They know what they are doing. Communism and Christianity are like oil and water. They don't have the same goals.
Americans have created a self-serving doctrine that tries to marry Christian and Western values and turn the American Dream into a Christian principle, but Christ was pretty clear when he said the meek shall inherit the earth and spoke on a rich man's chances of entering the Kingdom.
I'll readily agree that democracy is a vastly superior system of government than communism and that capitalism is a lesser evil than socialism, but I don't arrive at either conclusion from a religious angle. And I don't view either system as God-ordained. I think Christ would find some fairly significant flaws with both -- particularly the way they're practiced here.
I did not make a moral equivalency. In fact, there is an explicit hierarchy in both the original post and the response.Timbear said:
Mister obnoxious strikes again. You made a moral equivalency argument between Communism and Capitalism as for as Christianity is concerned., and I blew you out of the water.
Timbear said:
Hey 2B2, how about the fact that Communism bans Christianity and persecutes Christians, while Capitalism gives religious freedom and allows Christians to worship publicly and openly. So you think God does not prefer Capitalism and freedom? You're nuts. If you got your screwed up brain from Baylor, then Baylor is as we knew it is over.
WRONG AGAIN! YOU SHOULD MAKE A MORAL EQUIVALENCY BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND CHRISTIANITY. THIS IS WHERE YOUR MEEKNESS GOES OFF THE RAILS. YES, CHRIST IS IN THE CAPITALISM CAMP AND I HAVE TAKEN A HARD READ THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.bear2be2 said:I did not make a moral equivalency. In fact, there is an explicit hierarchy in both the original post and the response.Timbear said:
Mister obnoxious strikes again. You made a moral equivalency argument between Communism and Capitalism as for as Christianity is concerned., and I blew you out of the water.
If you want to make a moral defense of capitalism against socialism (not communism), there's one to be made. But if you think Christ has a team in the capitalism vs. socialism debate, then I would encourage you take a hard read through the gospels.
My problem with Wuzzy's post above wasn't his opinion that democracy/capitalism are superior systems to their alternatives. I agree with him there. It was that in making that argument he implicitly attributed a position to the Lord that I don't think scripture supports. All of the constructs above are purely human creations. While some are better than others, none would earn God's endorsement.
See my post below in all caps which in this case was necessary. I think this is what you are trying to say, but I get angry when people cannot see that Christianity and our form of democracy (a democratic Republic) are meant for each other and can only exist with each other. Otherwise, America would never have won its independence but God did it supernaturally. He gave our founding fathers the WILL and POWER to do the unthinkable at the time...create a form of government free of tyranny so he could flourish. Without that initial thrust by freedom seekers it would have never flourished, but it did so because GOD MADE IT HAPPEN. It's our fault if we have *******ized it in some form, but the blue print of the Bible simply calls for a not so amicable ending and then a new beginning and it is my argument it was God's will for a democratic republic for the spread of the Word. From this country and after the apostles went to their KNOWN ends of the earth, did all missionary work come from and it simply my argument that democracy is ABSOLUTELY God's will.PartyBear said:Timbear said:
Hey 2B2, how about the fact that Communism bans Christianity and persecutes Christians, while Capitalism gives religious freedom and allows Christians to worship publicly and openly. So you think God does not prefer Capitalism and freedom? You're nuts. If you got your screwed up brain from Baylor, then Baylor is as we knew it is over.
Capitalism is an economic system. Our political system is what preserves our rights. Our political system allows our economic system. Freedom of religion as an example is not created by or inherent in capitalism.
It's funny that American Evangelicals are strict constructionists on a few Old Testament references to homosexuality but are willing to take enormous liberties with the New Testament, particularly those pesky red letters.wuzzybear said:WRONG AGAIN! YOU SHOULD MAKE A MORAL EQUIVALENCY BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND CHRISTIANITY. THIS IS WHERE YOUR MEEKNESS GOES OFF THE RAILS. YES, CHRIST IS IN THE CAPITALISM CAMP AND I HAVE TAKEN A HARD READ THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.bear2be2 said:I did not make a moral equivalency. In fact, there is an explicit hierarchy in both the original post and the response.Timbear said:
Mister obnoxious strikes again. You made a moral equivalency argument between Communism and Capitalism as for as Christianity is concerned., and I blew you out of the water.
If you want to make a moral defense of capitalism against socialism (not communism), there's one to be made. But if you think Christ has a team in the capitalism vs. socialism debate, then I would encourage you take a hard read through the gospels.
My problem with Wuzzy's post above wasn't his opinion that democracy/capitalism are superior systems to their alternatives. I agree with him there. It was that in making that argument he implicitly attributed a position to the Lord that I don't think scripture supports. All of the constructs above are purely human creations. While some are better than others, none would earn God's endorsement.
I'M GONNA FINISH THIS UP ONCE AND FOR ALL BY TAKING THE REVERSE OF YOUR ARGUMENT...CHRISTIANITY, IN IT'S PURE FORM, CREATED THE GROUNDWORK FOR DEMOCRACY. THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT. THE PILGRIMS JUST DID NOT SHOW UP BECAUSE THEY WERE PISSED AT KINGS AND QUEENS. NO, THEY CAME TO FOSTER A SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT WHICH THEY PERCEIVED AS INADEQUATE UNDER A MONARCHY AND THEY CAME AND DEVELOPED DEMOCRATIC CHRISTIANITY. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DECIDED TO SETTLE THEIR POLITICAL DISPUTES "DEMOCRATICALLY." WHEN I SAY DEMOCRACY HAS ITS FLAWS I MEAN THAT IT IS A MAJORITY RULE AND CAN SUCCUMB TO DESPOTISM OF ITS OWN PEOPLE. THIS OCCURS WHEN PEOPLE ARE OVERLY COMMITTED TO THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS. BUT CHRISTIANITY AND DEMOCRACY ARE ACTUALLY CO-DEPENDENT IN THE SENSE THAT DEMOCRACY GREW OUT OF A TRUE REPUBLIC.
I WILL FINISH WITH THIS QUESTION: HOW CAN PEOPLE BE MASTERS OF THEMSELVES IF THEY HAVE NOT SUBMITTED TO THE CHRISTIAN GOD? CHRISTIANITY IS ESSENTIAL TO MAINTAIN POLITICAL ORDER IF WE ARE ALL ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR.
I REST MY CASE BUDDY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What??? Christianity began and spread across the entire known world at the height of the Roman Empire. But it needs a democratic republic to exist?wuzzybear said:See my post below in all caps which in this case was necessary. I think this is what you are trying to say, but I get angry when people cannot see that Christianity and our form of democracy (a democratic Republic) are meant for each other and can only exist with each other. Otherwise, America would never have won its independence but God did it supernaturally. He gave our founding fathers the WILL and POWER to do the unthinkable at the time...create a form of government free of tyranny so he could flourish. Without that initial thrust by freedom seekers it would have never flourished, but it did so because GOD MADE IT HAPPEN. It's our fault if we have *******ized it in some form, but the blue print of the Bible simply calls for a not so amicable ending and then a new beginning and it is my argument it was God's will for a democratic republic for the spread of the Word. From this country and after the apostles went to their KNOWN ends of the earth, did all missionary work come from and it simply my argument that democracy is ABSOLUTELY God's will.PartyBear said:Timbear said:
Hey 2B2, how about the fact that Communism bans Christianity and persecutes Christians, while Capitalism gives religious freedom and allows Christians to worship publicly and openly. So you think God does not prefer Capitalism and freedom? You're nuts. If you got your screwed up brain from Baylor, then Baylor is as we knew it is over.
Capitalism is an economic system. Our political system is what preserves our rights. Our political system allows our economic system. Freedom of religion as an example is not created by or inherent in capitalism.
