Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Franko said:

---

Utility versus risk is the difference between guns and other consumer products. The utility of guns is their lethality-killing animals, war opponents, home invaders and criminals of other types. When the utility is the same thing that makes the product a risk, there is not much you can do without destroying its utility. If you make guns non-lethal, they are no longer guns.

The utility of cars is as a mode of transportation, not lethality. So you can make them less lethal without destroying their utility.

---

But when all those efforts fail and mass casualties occur, such as the parade attack, why aren't they still liable? They obviously did nothing to prevent intentional use of their product for illegal means, as it's claimed gun manufacturers do not. So why isn't Ford liable for the parade attack?

---

Point me to a rational argument that gun manufacturers can/should make their product in such a way that prevents a reasonably foreseeable misuse.

---

Yep. Same question for automakers concerning stopping a parade attack.

---

No, you are acting as though someone has made that argument. I don't see it.

If nobody is making that argument your guns/cars angle is just whack.

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Franko said:

---

Utility versus risk is the difference between guns and other consumer products. The utility of guns is their lethality-killing animals, war opponents, home invaders and criminals of other types. When the utility is the same thing that makes the product a risk, there is not much you can do without destroying its utility. If you make guns non-lethal, they are no longer guns.

The utility of cars is as a mode of transportation, not lethality. So you can make them less lethal without destroying their utility.

---

But when all those efforts fail and mass casualties occur, such as the parade attack, why aren't they still liable? They obviously did nothing to prevent intentional use of their product for illegal means, as it's claimed gun manufacturers do not. So why isn't Ford liable for the parade attack?

---

Point me to a rational argument that gun manufacturers can/should make their product in such a way that prevents a reasonably foreseeable misuse.

---

Yep. Same question for automakers concerning stopping a parade attack.

---

No, you are acting as though someone has made that argument. I don't see it.

If nobody is making that argument your guns/cars angle is just whack.

---

The people who claim gun makers should be liable for misuse of their products are making that claim. How can you be liable for the misuse of your product by a customer? The intended use of the gun is for legal purposes, just like that of an automobile. The misuse of either is up to the criminal and there are no safeguards against that misuse that can be reasonably expected of either product manufacturer, gun or automobile.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Franko said:

---

Utility versus risk is the difference between guns and other consumer products. The utility of guns is their lethality-killing animals, war opponents, home invaders and criminals of other types. When the utility is the same thing that makes the product a risk, there is not much you can do without destroying its utility. If you make guns non-lethal, they are no longer guns.

The utility of cars is as a mode of transportation, not lethality. So you can make them less lethal without destroying their utility.

---

But when all those efforts fail and mass casualties occur, such as the parade attack, why aren't they still liable? They obviously did nothing to prevent intentional use of their product for illegal means, as it's claimed gun manufacturers do not. So why isn't Ford liable for the parade attack?

---

Point me to a rational argument that gun manufacturers can/should make their product in such a way that prevents a reasonably foreseeable misuse.

---

Yep. Same question for automakers concerning stopping a parade attack.

---

No, you are acting as though someone has made that argument. I don't see it.

If nobody is making that argument your guns/cars angle is just whack.

---

The people who claim gun makers should be liable for misuse of their products are making that claim. How can you be liable for the misuse of your product by a customer? The intended use of the gun is for legal purposes, just like that of an automobile. The misuse of either is up to the criminal and there are no safeguards against that misuse that can be reasonably expected of either product manufacturer, gun or automobile.

---

And that's why the law protects gun makers.

Bring your argument back when a law gets passed.

Okay now what?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/25/gun-makers-lose-challenge-to-new-york-law-allowing-lawsuits-against-industry.html

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

A vast majority of schools in America do not have armed security and the vast majority of school have never had a shooting on campus.

Armed policeman might discourage some attacks. Metal detectors might deter a few but both are expensive options. The only school shooting I have seen was a suicide where a kid brought his mothers pistol and offed himself between the gym and and my office. Metal detectors or police wouldnt have mattered because he was outside.

Theres no answer. Some guns should not be available. As long as we are a culture that glorifies guns we will have them. I dont think most people need them and the thought of a bunch of guys walking around armed all the time scares me. Except for Pecos.

---

With all due respect, I went to a central Texas high school where almost every truck had guns…no shootings. What I think has changed is we have devalued life. The Uvalde shooting shouldn't be shocking to us…we've ended 65 million lives through abortion, have violent video games, movies and tv shows that show violent death…unregulated pornography, social media and lack of any helpful mental health supports.

We've been asking for these shootings for years…IMHO

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been avoided, or much different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

The decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after Col. Steven McCraw held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was “the wrong decision” and contrary to protocol

— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) May 31, 2022

More conflicting info….it's gonna be awhile before we can sort all these conflicting reports out

"Law enforcement tried to blame a teacher who left a door open for the Uvalde shooting, but surveillance video shows that the school employee closed the door."

https://t.co/tF0rYpuyqw via @politicususa

— Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) May 31, 2022

need a uniform set of security standards.

otherwise we're just treating these schools as peach tree dishes.

- MTG BHJ

{ sipping coffee }

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde ISD police force are no longer cooperating with the @TxDPS investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary and the state’s review of police response, multiple law enforcement sources told @ABC
w/ @JoshMargolin

— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) May 31, 2022

.@TxDPS: “Uvalde Police Department and Uvalde CISD Police have been cooperating with investigators. The chief of the Uvalde CISD Police provided an initial interview but has not responded to a request for a follow-up interview with the Texas Rangers that was made two days ago"

— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) May 31, 2022

boognish_bear said:

---

More conflicting info….it's gonna be awhile before we can sort all these conflicting reports out

"Law enforcement tried to blame a teacher who left a door open for the Uvalde shooting, but surveillance video shows that the school employee closed the door."

https://t.co/tF0rYpuyqw via @politicususa

— Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) May 31, 2022

---

I just read an article that said the same thing but said it did not lock and that was the door the shooter entered through.

Which is believable with how some doors won't fully lock if they are closed slowly or don't swing all the way back to close. Like if the teacher just kicked the rock out the door didn't shut fully.

BREAKING: The Texas DPS confirms that a teacher at Robb Elementary School did, in fact, close the door that the gunman entered, but that the door did not properly lock. The agency originally said that a teacher left the door propped open.

— Tony Plohetski (@tplohetski) May 31, 2022

1 week later...

#Exclusive footage

Mass shooting reported at #SaintFrancisHospital in Tulsa, #Oklahoma.

•Reports of 4 dead and 10 injured. #Tulsa #USA pic.twitter.com/wOwIiN0pLJ

— shahinur (@shahinu_r) June 1, 2022

Jack Bauer said:

---

1 week later...

#Exclusive footage

Mass shooting reported at #SaintFrancisHospital in Tulsa, #Oklahoma.

•Reports of 4 dead and 10 injured. #Tulsa #USA pic.twitter.com/wOwIiN0pLJ

— shahinur (@shahinu_r) June 1, 2022

---

and we restart the 13 day window..

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider whether the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide, and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me, my family, and my community.

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

Booray said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

---

seems reasonable. I could vote for restricting the ability of violent crime offenders to have access to weapons.

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

---

seems reasonable. I could vote for restricting the ability of violent crime offenders to have access to weapons.

---

Me too

Felons don't get to vote. Why do they get to carry guns?

The only way I could support new gun control is if it includes the removal of legacy infringements. If they want to raise the purchasing age to 21, then they need to repeal the NFA. There has to be a give and take.

Booray said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

---

at face value, yes.

However, an 18 year old kid who gets in a fist fight shouldn't still be paying a price for that fight at age 30.

The devil is in the details.

Interesting discussion here, a lot of very reasonable, cost effective and thought provoking ideas on this thread, so I don't have much to add other than this.

-Forget this idea of elite, trained police forces and crack SWAT teams showing up to save the day. It just seems we've sort of exhausted that issue. That would end up being 98% boredom and 2%, I found a broken weapon. Granted, the dumb****s that advocated defunding the police have gone quiet now, but I don't see adding officers and dispersing forces as an effective measure. That being said, the corruption of the Uvalde donut eaters and training across police forces is up for discussion, but I think the current environment is the media/liberals have politicized policing.

• Allow teachers to concealed carry. On person or locked in school.
• A LOT of schools practice lockdowns. F that. That's nuts. Shelter in place my ass, I tell kids to hit the door or window and take off.
• There was an event where a kid brought a firearm into my kids' school. My kid texted me. I was heading in before the officer stopped me, but if my kid had been threatened, I was going in. Let the lawyers sort it out afterwards. The police/public schools don't own your kids, you do. Go full tilt if they aren't protected. That's how you fix this problem.
• We definitely have a mental illness/troubled person/civil liberties problem. We're just pushing that problem down the road.

Bottom line, this is a problem that must be solved much earlier than the conflict event where they obtain a weapon. Rifles are just the symptom.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

Interesting discussion here, a lot of very reasonable, cost effective and thought provoking ideas on this thread, so I don't have much to add other than this.

-Forget this idea of elite, trained police forces and crack SWAT teams showing up to save the day. It just seems we've sort of exhausted that issue. That would end up being 98% boredom and 2%, I found a broken weapon. Granted, the dumb****s that advocated defunding the police have gone quiet now, but I don't see adding officers and dispersing forces as an effective measure. That being said, the corruption of the Uvalde donut eaters and training across police forces is up for discussion, but I think the current environment is the media/liberals have politicized policing.

• Allow teachers to concealed carry. On person or locked in school.
• A LOT of schools practice lockdowns. F that. That's nuts. Shelter in place my ass, I tell kids to hit the door or window and take off.
• There was an event where a kid brought a firearm into my kids' school. My kid texted me. I was heading in before the officer stopped me, but if my kid had been threatened, I was going in. Let the lawyers sort it out afterwards.
• We definitely have a mental illness/troubled person/civil liberties problem. We're just pushing that problem down the road.

Bottom line, this is a problem that must be solved much earlier than the conflict event where they obtain a weapon. Rifles are just the symptom.

---

Good points.

I would say your second bullet is flawed though. That puts everyone in the hallways instead of behind locked doors. That is what happened in Florida when the shooter pulled the fire alarm.

What needs to be taught is when it is real the students need to break windows (if there are any) and evacuate, like you said, but if in a room that has no windows or second story stay behind the locked door and barricade it. Not run from safety into the line of fire.

boognish_bear said:

---

The decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after Col. Steven McCraw held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was “the wrong decision” and contrary to protocol

— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) May 31, 2022

---

these morons shot a Kid, didnt they?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Booray said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

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at face value, yes.

However, an 18 year old kid who gets in a fist fight shouldn't still be paying a price for that fight at age 30.

The devil is in the details.

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That detail in California is that the ban lasts 10 years.

Booray said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Booray said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Booray said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Booray said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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cowboycwr said:

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As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

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Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

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We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

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Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

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Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

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limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

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Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

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at face value, yes.

However, an 18 year old kid who gets in a fist fight shouldn't still be paying a price for that fight at age 30.

The devil is in the details.

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That detail in California is that the ban lasts 10 years.

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I could support that... but don't let anyone know. NRA will kick me out

Booray said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Booray said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Booray said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

As the details become clearer about how this tragic event went down I think one thing that can be said that addresses the OP is that schools must get better at following protocol. Doors should NEVER be propped open or left unlocked.

Sadly it seems this shooting could have been, or different, if the shooter was not able to get in a door left propped open and therefore unable to enter the school.

---

Yes, and that door was propped open one minute BEFORE he crashed his truck at the school! You could not have had a worse case of bad circumstances.

I'm sure a 4th grade teacher never thought a psycho would show up at an elementary school in Uvalde, TX to commit mass murder with 2 days left in the school year BUT you always have to assume worse case scenario.

---

We need to harden schools, increase mental health spending and change the standards for commitment, teachers need to be trained to carry and use if necessary, I need to consider wheter the guy in the car next to me is carrying and subject to road rage before I honk at him for cutting me off; we have to watch waves of veterans commit suicide and on and on.

All to serve others' right to bear arms. Maybe the Second Amendment require that sacrifice (I don't think so), but I am tired of the cost gun rights activists are imposing on me and my family.

---

Taking better care of sick kids and veterans isn't too high a price for freedom. Seems like it's something we should want to do anyway.

---

Yes we should. One way to do that would be to limit the access to guns for people who are struggling. But the activists are against that. Slippery slope and all.

---

limiting access to guns isnt a mental health solution. Increasing mental health awareness and access is.. lets start there

---

Its not either/or. When you are sick, you treat the disease and the symptoms.

And while you personally support expanding access to mental health care, the same party that is beholden to the guns rights activists has regularly voted to limit social services spending. So it seems a bit hypocritical.

Here is a for instance-most states restrict gun ownership for felons. California extends that restriction to violent misdemeanor convictions. Would you support extending the ban to violent misdemeanors in Texas?

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Texas already does that in family violence cases.

cowboycwr said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Good points.

I would say your second bullet is flawed though. That puts everyone in the hallways instead of behind locked doors. That is what happened in Florida when the shooter pulled the fire alarm.

What needs to be taught is when it is real the students need to break windows (if there are any) and evacuate, like you said, but if in a room that has no windows or second story stay behind the locked door and barricade it. Not run from safety into the line of fire.

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Minor detail, bigger point is, shelter in place is a recipe for disaster. Be mobile and find safety. But yeah.

This isn't a terribly difficult problem, but it's absolutely one where the political will just isn't there.. The extremists in the Left are in it for power. The right isn't on the hook for public safety, but they are being blamed. We have an expectation of civil liberties that protects murderers, felons, criminals and now...the mentally insane. But damn you to hell if you dare protect yourself.

I own a few guns, that were sadly, lost in a boating accident. But if I had them, i would have no intention of giving them up. The Left is hell bent on tyranny and I fear the deep division is moving towards real conflict.

Additionally, part of the ongoing investigation will look into what details Arredondo may have received from other officers who were receiving real-time 911 information and how Arredondo responded. Those interactions likely are captured on body camera footage.

— Tony Plohetski (@tplohetski) June 3, 2022

Fyi..school shootings are tragic but groups like Everytown are making **** up..

I'm going through 2022 school shooting data, and this is your friendly reminder that many gun control groups routinely inflate school shooting numbers to scare people into thinking Uvalde happens every week. It doesn't.

Here a few of my favorite inclusions from Everytown:

— Amy Swearer (@AmySwearer) June 3, 2022

My God, they literally count a cop who shot himself in his own vehicle vaguely near an elementary school. Presumably overnight. In mid-JULY.

— Amy Swearer (@AmySwearer) June 3, 2022

We've got a 25-year-old fatally shot [and I quote here] "near a school playground." On a Sunday evening.

A 17-year-old fatally shot outside of an elementary school...on Veteran's Day, when school wasn't in session.

— Amy Swearer (@AmySwearer) June 3, 2022

A 27-year-old man was found fatally shot in his car behind a school building on a Sunday.

A 20-year-old was found fatally shot behind a school building at 1:00 a.m.

Another man was fatally shot in a school parking lot at 6:40 am on a Sunday.

— Amy Swearer (@AmySwearer) June 3, 2022

Damn. Campuses are more dangerous than I thought...

quash said:

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Damn. Campuses are more dangerous than I thought...

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especially when school isnt in session!