Russia mobilizes

194,908 Views | 4259 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by sombear
Canada2017
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DioNoZeus said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

Canada2017 said:

Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .

Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .

Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.

Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .

For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .

But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '

Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.

Gotta luv the internet.




It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.

This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.


A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .

A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .


No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.


Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .

To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .

This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.

It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .

But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .






The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.

You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .

With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......

The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.

But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.

This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.

And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.

May God help us all.






you should move your ass somewhere else if you're so against the US.
He's a simpleton who repeats himself constantly.


Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
whiterock
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Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........






LIB,MR BEARS
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" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?

And at last we come to the real reason for all this reckless nonsense.
Bear8084
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?

And at last we come to the real reason for all this reckless nonsense.


Not really.
Golem
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?

And at last we come to the real reason for all this reckless nonsense.


Which reckless nonsense are you talking about? Russia invading a sovereign nation to steal land? Russia murdering innocent civilians by hand? Russia drafting a population that thinks the invasion is wrong and don't want to die in it?

Or….

Ukraine defending itself with some cast off weapons from NATO?
Mothra
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whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









Let's not forget that the US putting missiles next to Russia's borders greatly contributed to the Cuban missile crises. Only after we agreed to remove them did Russia agree to remove missiles from Cuba.

Not dissimilar aggressive acts have contributed to Russia's Ukraine invasion. That does not justify a Russian invasion but it does recognize we could have done things to diffuse the situation and did not.
FLBear5630
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?


That is saying Putin is a stabilizing presence that kept Russian expansionist bay???

I see any regime change bring more pro-west and after seeing the improvements they see in the Baltics and Ukraine (prior to Putins disaster) how can they integrate into Europe. Russia, at least easy of the Utals, sees itself as European, nit Asian

I believe the question is can they keep Sibetia and east. Do those populations identify with non-European areas, the Stan's with the Moslem world and the East with Asia.

I do not see a more expansionist Russian leader than Putin emerging. There was speculation if Putin gave a nuclear order he would nit survive the conversation, at least reports.

I do not see a Russia behind this type of action.
LIB,MR BEARS
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RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?


That is saying Putin is a stabilizing presence that kept Russian expansionist bay???

I see any regime change bring more pro-west and after seeing the improvements they see in the Baltics and Ukraine (prior to Putins disaster) how can they integrate into Europe. Russia, at least easy of the Utals, sees itself as European, nit Asian

I believe the question is can they keep Sibetia and east. Do those populations identify with non-European areas, the Stan's with the Moslem world and the East with Asia.

I do not see a more expansionist Russian leader than Putin emerging. There was speculation if Putin gave a nuclear order he would nit survive the conversation, at least reports.

I do not see a Russia behind this type of action.
That's not saying that at all. Try again.
LIB,MR BEARS
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There are a lot of messages being delivered every time a Russian falls down a flight of stairs and dies or falls out an open window from an upper floor with the same result. People are already fighting for and against regime change now. Some of these dead guys didn't realize they were the political shatter zones.
FLBear5630
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?


That is saying Putin is a stabilizing presence that kept Russian expansionist bay???

I see any regime change bring more pro-west and after seeing the improvements they see in the Baltics and Ukraine (prior to Putins disaster) how can they integrate into Europe. Russia, at least easy of the Utals, sees itself as European, nit Asian

I believe the question is can they keep Sibetia and east. Do those populations identify with non-European areas, the Stan's with the Moslem world and the East with Asia.

I do not see a more expansionist Russian leader than Putin emerging. There was speculation if Putin gave a nuclear order he would nit survive the conversation, at least reports.

I do not see a Russia behind this type of action.
That's not saying that at all. Try again.


F off, that is my opinion of what happens if regime change occurs In Russia.

How about giving your opinion for discussion rather than trying to look smart. At least Canada gives his view.
What is it with the ******* contingent that can't take part in discussions without attacking someone
I am sick of f-ing children
LIB,MR BEARS
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RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?


That is saying Putin is a stabilizing presence that kept Russian expansionist bay???

I see any regime change bring more pro-west and after seeing the improvements they see in the Baltics and Ukraine (prior to Putins disaster) how can they integrate into Europe. Russia, at least easy of the Utals, sees itself as European, nit Asian

I believe the question is can they keep Sibetia and east. Do those populations identify with non-European areas, the Stan's with the Moslem world and the East with Asia.

I do not see a more expansionist Russian leader than Putin emerging. There was speculation if Putin gave a nuclear order he would nit survive the conversation, at least reports.

I do not see a Russia behind this type of action.
That's not saying that at all. Try again.


F off, that is my opinion of what happens if regime change occurs In Russia.

How about giving your opinion for discussion rather than trying to look smart. At least Canada gives his view.
What is it with the ******* contingent that can't take part in discussions without attacking someone
I am sick of f-ing children

Wow. Point out my attack?
Canada2017
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whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .

FLBear5630
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

" --what will looming regime change in Russia look like?"

How much collateral damage will come from this regime change and will it spill across boarders?


That is saying Putin is a stabilizing presence that kept Russian expansionist bay???

I see any regime change bring more pro-west and after seeing the improvements they see in the Baltics and Ukraine (prior to Putins disaster) how can they integrate into Europe. Russia, at least easy of the Utals, sees itself as European, nit Asian

I believe the question is can they keep Sibetia and east. Do those populations identify with non-European areas, the Stan's with the Moslem world and the East with Asia.

I do not see a more expansionist Russian leader than Putin emerging. There was speculation if Putin gave a nuclear order he would nit survive the conversation, at least reports.

I do not see a Russia behind this type of action.
That's not saying that at all. Try again.


F off, that is my opinion of what happens if regime change occurs In Russia.

How about giving your opinion for discussion rather than trying to look smart. At least Canada gives his view.
What is it with the ******* contingent that can't take part in discussions without attacking someone
I am sick of f-ing children

Wow. Point out my attack?




Doc Holliday
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Wrecks Quan Dough
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Doc Holliday said:



What does this mean? How can explain the dynamics at play and the risk of nuclear war within the constraints of a tweet?

It is like moving the hands of the Doomsday clock. It communicates something but I am not sure it actually explains much of anything.
Doc Holliday
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He Hate Me said:

Doc Holliday said:



What does this mean? How can explain the dynamics at play and the risk of nuclear war within the constraints of a tweet?

It is like moving the hands of the Doomsday clock. It communicates something but I am not sure it actually explains much of anything.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Dod9AWz8Rp4Svdpof/why-i-think-there-s-a-one-in-six-chance-of-an-imminent
Canada2017
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Doc Holliday said:

He Hate Me said:

Doc Holliday said:



What does this mean? How can explain the dynamics at play and the risk of nuclear war within the constraints of a tweet?

It is like moving the hands of the Doomsday clock. It communicates something but I am not sure it actually explains much of anything.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Dod9AWz8Rp4Svdpof/why-i-think-there-s-a-one-in-six-chance-of-an-imminent
Can't see a full on global nuclear war until Putin first 'ups the ante' with a single low yield nuclear detonation either in a semi uninhabited part of Ukraine or so high in the atmosphere as to do relatively little damage .

Would either make the West totally **** in their collective t pants and make a deal ( one Putin could survive with )
or enrage everyone into fully preparing for WW3 .

Of course it could also enrage enough Russians into assassinating him .

Oldbear83
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He Hate Me said:

Doc Holliday said:



What does this mean? How can explain the dynamics at play and the risk of nuclear war within the constraints of a tweet?

It is like moving the hands of the Doomsday clock. It communicates something but I am not sure it actually explains much of anything.
There are several errors in that diagram, but what it mainly looks like, is that when this crisis ends, most likely unsatisfactory to each side in some way, the negotiators will get nominated for a Nobel Prize for 'averting Nuclear War'.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
trey3216
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Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
FLBear5630
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trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
He is worried about keeping what he has. Because of what Whiterock stated earlier, for the next 6 months, time is now Russia's enemy. Interesting that General Winter is now working against Russia, traditionally their biggest ally.

We will see how long that holds and if Russia is able to get their supply and tech issues resolved.

A rarity on this thread, I agree with Canada about Putin. I do not see how he survives, those that want him out will act and those that agree with him will use his own strategies/rules against him. There really is no way out for him.

LIB,MR BEARS
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

There are a lot of messages being delivered every time a Russian falls down a flight of stairs and dies or falls out an open window from an upper floor with the same result. People are already fighting for and against regime change now. Some of these dead guys didn't realize they were the political shatter zones.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-10-07/kremlin-fires-military-commanders-7611381.html
FLBear5630
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

There are a lot of messages being delivered every time a Russian falls down a flight of stairs and dies or falls out an open window from an upper floor with the same result. People are already fighting for and against regime change now. Some of these dead guys didn't realize they were the political shatter zones.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-10-07/kremlin-fires-military-commanders-7611381.html
Agree, there is a struggle going on for the political future in Russia. Awful lot of accidents occurring
Canada2017
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RMF5630 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
He is worried about keeping what he has. Because of what Whiterock stated earlier, for the next 6 months, time is now Russia's enemy. Interesting that General Winter is now working against Russia, traditionally their biggest ally.

We will see how long that holds and if Russia is able to get their supply and tech issues resolved.

A rarity on this thread, I agree with Canada about Putin. I do not see how he survives, those that want him out will act and those that agree with him will use his own strategies/rules against him. There really is no way out for him.




Only way out for Putin is to 'win'…..or escalate this war into some kind of horrible 'payback'.

Which would be relatively easy for him to do .

Meanwhile our dementia riddled president is warning about potential Armageddon.

Elections have consequences.

FLBear5630
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Canada2017 said:

RMF5630 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
He is worried about keeping what he has. Because of what Whiterock stated earlier, for the next 6 months, time is now Russia's enemy. Interesting that General Winter is now working against Russia, traditionally their biggest ally.

We will see how long that holds and if Russia is able to get their supply and tech issues resolved.

A rarity on this thread, I agree with Canada about Putin. I do not see how he survives, those that want him out will act and those that agree with him will use his own strategies/rules against him. There really is no way out for him.




Only way out for Putin is to 'win'…..or escalate this war into some kind of horrible 'payback'.

Which would be relatively easy for him to do .

Meanwhile our dementia riddled president is warning about potential Armageddon.

Elections have consequences.


No argument here. If you show weakness in the Oval Office, this is what happens. This all started after Biden's botched up Afghanistan withdrawl. I have NO PROBLEM leaving Afghanistan, but not the way it was executed. Russia and China saw that and things start rolling.
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

RMF5630 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
He is worried about keeping what he has. Because of what Whiterock stated earlier, for the next 6 months, time is now Russia's enemy. Interesting that General Winter is now working against Russia, traditionally their biggest ally.

We will see how long that holds and if Russia is able to get their supply and tech issues resolved.

A rarity on this thread, I agree with Canada about Putin. I do not see how he survives, those that want him out will act and those that agree with him will use his own strategies/rules against him. There really is no way out for him.




Only way out for Putin is to 'win'…..or escalate this war into some kind of horrible 'payback'.

Which would be relatively easy for him to do .

Meanwhile our dementia riddled president is warning about potential Armageddon.

Elections have consequences.


No argument here. If you show weakness in the Oval Office, this is what happens. This all started after Biden's botched up Afghanistan withdrawl. I have NO PROBLEM leaving Afghanistan, but not the way it was executed. Russia and China saw that and things start rolling.


Honestly don't believe Biden is in full control of his faculties or his administration.

I remember events surrounding the Cuban Missile Crisis . People were openly getting prepared ( as best they could ) for the horrors of a hydrogen bomb blast .

But in the back of everyone's mind was a confidence in our young , vibrant president Kennedy, that he would make the right decisions….regardless if it meant war or peace .

Now the situation is far worse ……and our president is an old incoherent mess .
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canada2017 said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

RMF5630 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:



Disappointed you consider me to be a 'simpleton ' .

Guilty as charged with being repetitive.

However this the most dangerous situation our country Russia has placed itself since the Cuban Missile Crises in the 60's .

And most of you younger guys don't have the slightest understanding of what is at risk or the consequences involved .

Worse, you are not remotely interested in evaluating how the US contributed to this ongoing nightmare .

Just the usual ' love it or leave it ' jargon so common during the early years of the Vietnam war.
FIFY

This conversation is already be overtaken by events.

The question is not "how do we end this war" but rather "how long until Russia collapses."

The Russian invasion culminated in August. They're out of supplies. Even if they could throw 300k troops to the front line, they cannot feed them. They cannot supply them with ammo. Those issues might improve somewhat, but it is not going to reverse. Ukraine has a good (not great, but good) army and it is doing a fine (though not flawless) job. Russia has a BAD army. And it is done. Poke it with a fork time.

Russia cannot stop Ukraine from advancing.
by end of the year, Ukraine is going to reverse all post-2014 Russian gains.
by next spring, Ukraine is going retake all of it's pre-2014 borders, to include Crimea.

The questions we should be discussing are:
--what will looming regime change in Russia look like?
--can the Russian Federation survive intact?
--what is the timeline for inclusion of Ukraine into EU and Nato?

Note: Parts of Kerch Bridge were blown jp this week, apparently by Ukrainian special forces.

Kherson could fall by Halloween Day. Should fall before Thanksgiving Day.

Russian expeditionary forces in Ukraine do not have winter gear.........









I hope you are right .

The one wild card people continue to ignore is Putin himself .

Ruthless and evil, but no fool .

If he loses the war or even is perceived not to have 'won' it Putin will be deposed.

If Putin is deposed he will be executed…..legally or otherwise. Possibly members of his family will be imprisoned as well.

Without a doubt Putin is aware of this .

He is not going to go out quietly . Putin will emulate his hero….Joseph Stalin .

Unless Putin is taken out asap I believe there is a real chance he will employ ( at a minimum) low yield tactical nukes .

Somehow , someway Putin needs to die .




If he loses the war? If?

He's already lost this war, and he knows it.

That's why he keeps sabre-rattling. He's got to try and project that Russia is mighty.

He's already toast
He is worried about keeping what he has. Because of what Whiterock stated earlier, for the next 6 months, time is now Russia's enemy. Interesting that General Winter is now working against Russia, traditionally their biggest ally.

We will see how long that holds and if Russia is able to get their supply and tech issues resolved.

A rarity on this thread, I agree with Canada about Putin. I do not see how he survives, those that want him out will act and those that agree with him will use his own strategies/rules against him. There really is no way out for him.




Only way out for Putin is to 'win'…..or escalate this war into some kind of horrible 'payback'.

Which would be relatively easy for him to do .

Meanwhile our dementia riddled president is warning about potential Armageddon.

Elections have consequences.


No argument here. If you show weakness in the Oval Office, this is what happens. This all started after Biden's botched up Afghanistan withdrawl. I have NO PROBLEM leaving Afghanistan, but not the way it was executed. Russia and China saw that and things start rolling.


Honestly don't believe Biden is in full control of his faculties or his administration.

I remember events surrounding the Cuban Missile Crisis . People were openly getting prepared ( as best they could ) for the horrors of a hydrogen bomb blast .

But in the back of everyone's mind was a confidence in our young , vibrant president Kennedy, that he would make the right decisions….regardless if it meant war or peace .

Now the situation is far worse ……and our president is an old incoherent mess .
I agree. He and his administration is a mess.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Doc Holliday
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trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
trey3216
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Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
This is kind of proof that they won't use nukes. They'll kick and scream and throw toddler tantrums while launching cruise missiles into Universities and malls. Think Grozny, Syria, etc.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
This is kind of proof that they won't use nukes. They'll kick and scream and through toddler tantrums while launching cruise missiles into Universities and malls. Think Grozny, Syria, etc.
Nukes are a no win scenario. If Putin fears regime change, pop a nuke. Nukes, even tactical, are non-weapons. There is no winning scenario for any regime that goes that direction. Russia goes nuclear even China, India and Pakistan won't stand by them. Putin's only allies will be North Korea and Iran (if they even stay with them)?

The cruise missiles is what he will do. He is slowly being isolated, even China is not happy with this fiasco. If anything, it will have made taking Taiwan tougher politically, the opposite of Xi's desire.
Golem
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Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.


What?!? That doesn't make any sense. If they use conventional arms, they use nuclear arms?
Sam Lowry
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trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
This is kind of proof that they won't use nukes. They'll kick and scream and throw toddler tantrums while launching cruise missiles into Universities and malls. Think Grozny, Syria, etc.
Wrong. The Grozny option is just another step in the escalation.
Bear8084
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
This is kind of proof that they won't use nukes. They'll kick and scream and throw toddler tantrums while launching cruise missiles into Universities and malls. Think Grozny, Syria, etc.
This. Though they have been doing this the whole war all over Ukraine.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:


If they're crazy enough to do this, they're crazy enough to use nukes.
This is kind of proof that they won't use nukes. They'll kick and scream and throw toddler tantrums while launching cruise missiles into Universities and malls. Think Grozny, Syria, etc.
Wrong. The Grozny option is just another step in the escalation.
its a little easier to do Grozny in a place that is wholly within Russian territory. Not gonna be easy on a country of Ukraine's size and with Russia's dwindling precision guided weapons stock. This is the beginning of the toddler tantrum that precedes their finally succumbing to bed. Russia is gonna be put to bed fairly soon.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
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