Not one poster here will say we should send troops. Our government was prepared for Russia to take Ukraine in a few days, or a few weeks at most. You'd have forgotten all about it by now, and the country would be no worse off.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Whose national sovereignty?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:See my post above.RMF5630 said:Why Sam? The Russians believe it is tied to Ukraine.Sam Lowry said:Alaska is an American state. Ukraine isn't even a NATO member. Yet you compare them as if they were essentially the same. Incredible.RMF5630 said:What the Ukrainians think is immaterial.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Putin writes up some 700 page diatribe on Peter the Great, Ukraine loses its sovereignty. Too bad, Putin believes there is a "deep historic connection". Doesn't matter that the Ukrainians don't agree. The US should just stay out.
After all, Putin is getting angry. INSANITY to let Putin get angry. Maybe we should re-open the Alaska sale to calm him down and show we are no threat. Does he want Finland? How about the Arctic? Let's abandon any presence in the Arctic, you think that will make Vlad happy? Whatever it takes to make sure he doesn't threaten to do anything rash.
Yeah, this is a sound policy. Oh wait, I don't have a blue chord. Disregard...
https://www.ibtimes.com/russia-threatens-take-back-alaska-us-over-war-sanctions-3564746
Putin believes there is a deep, tie to the Alaskan region, after all it was Russian for 125 years. Putin also believes it was a 99 year lease, like Hong Kong. They may decide to go nuclear if they don't get what they want. It would be insanity to risk nuclear war over a piece of land so far away. Why would you not just give him what he wants with an apology or risk nuclear war.
But it's the threat of nuclear war, doesn't that trump statehood? If it's insane to oppose Putin over thr threat of nuclear destruction, is there a level where it is sane to oppose? National Soverignty isn't enough, that is documented.
Does it matter?
Russia mobilizes
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Last: 7 mo ago by sombear
Operation Able Archer.
Nooowwww Freak out.
Nooowwww Freak out.
I happen to know two Finns, and several Russians. No sane Russian wants a fight with Finland.Canada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Canada2017 said:cowboycwr said:Enough with the revisionist history.Canada2017 said:
Prior to the end of WW2 in 1945 the Japanese Army dominated political power in Japan.
Tojo considered himself an Army general first and prime minister of Japan second . And the Army would have never allowed any civilian politician to cause the Army to 'lose face'.
FDR advisors understood this and still manipulated Japan into attacking the US first .
It was a huge risk….as it came at a time when the US Navy was already fighting it's undeclared war against German submarines in the Atlantic..
Result was a 2 ocean war the US was under equipped to fight .
Only the immense industrial capacity of the US and the enormous Russian Army made victory possible .
Biden is pushing the US step by step into a war with Russia in a similar fashion as FDR.
Only this time both protagonists have hydrogen bombs.
Bombs that make the weapons that leveled Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like mere firecrackers in comparison.
Insanity
Everything you have said has been proven wrong in this thread by multiple people.
I am 100% on the mark .
Not sure what you got your degree in, or what you read for pleasure .....but you know very , VERY little about US history past the 9th grade 'skimming' version .
Yeah, I know....you would rather die than to admit you are wrong about anything .
So go ahead and assign yourself still another debate 'victory'.
Lol. It isn't just me telling you that you are wrong. But yeah go ahead with the personal attacks as you always do when losing an argument.
There was no undeclared war.
There were other options for the Japanese besides attacking Pearl Harbor.
You ignore the actions of the axis and try to pick out the actions of the US as wrong.
I know more about history than you could ever hope to learn because you refuse to believe facts when presented to you by multiple people.
At least one poster in this thread reminds me of this fellow:
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Sam Lowry said:Not one poster here will say we should send troops. Our government was prepared for Russia to take Ukraine in a few days, or a few weeks at most. You'd have forgotten all about it by now, and the country would be no worse off.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Whose national sovereignty?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:See my post above.RMF5630 said:Why Sam? The Russians believe it is tied to Ukraine.Sam Lowry said:Alaska is an American state. Ukraine isn't even a NATO member. Yet you compare them as if they were essentially the same. Incredible.RMF5630 said:What the Ukrainians think is immaterial.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Putin writes up some 700 page diatribe on Peter the Great, Ukraine loses its sovereignty. Too bad, Putin believes there is a "deep historic connection". Doesn't matter that the Ukrainians don't agree. The US should just stay out.
After all, Putin is getting angry. INSANITY to let Putin get angry. Maybe we should re-open the Alaska sale to calm him down and show we are no threat. Does he want Finland? How about the Arctic? Let's abandon any presence in the Arctic, you think that will make Vlad happy? Whatever it takes to make sure he doesn't threaten to do anything rash.
Yeah, this is a sound policy. Oh wait, I don't have a blue chord. Disregard...
https://www.ibtimes.com/russia-threatens-take-back-alaska-us-over-war-sanctions-3564746
Putin believes there is a deep, tie to the Alaskan region, after all it was Russian for 125 years. Putin also believes it was a 99 year lease, like Hong Kong. They may decide to go nuclear if they don't get what they want. It would be insanity to risk nuclear war over a piece of land so far away. Why would you not just give him what he wants with an apology or risk nuclear war.
But it's the threat of nuclear war, doesn't that trump statehood? If it's insane to oppose Putin over thr threat of nuclear destruction, is there a level where it is sane to oppose? National Soverignty isn't enough, that is documented.
Does it matter?
We were prepared to help, not determine the outcome through use of US assets. The point is the same, we defended the sovereignty of a nation asking for help. Whether they hold on for 3 days, 3 months or win is irrelevant. The key is protecting a nation's soverignty.
The reason is that at some point our soverignty will come under attack.
No sane Finn wants to fight Russia either . In fact no sane person wants to fight with anyone .Oldbear83 said:I happen to know two Finns, and several Russians. No sane Russian wants a fight with Finland.Canada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Its usually the elites starting wars and the poor shmucks fighting and dying in them .
For what its worth Finland accepts a lot of credit for its tough fight against the Soviet Union early in WW2 .
What is generally glossed over is how Finland later become a limited ally of Nazi Germany and had a few thousand of its men join SS units . Most of whom fought alongside the Nazis on the eastern front .
And Sweden shipped vital iron ore to the Nazis almost the entire war. Stopping only when it became crystal clear the allies were winning.
History is never as one sided as some would like it to be .
The thing about the Finns, is that they have a bone to pick with a lot of people, and in my experience regard any Russian as the embodiment of every foul evil they ever heard about in their lives.Canada2017 said:No sane Finn wants to fight Russia either . In fact no sane person wants to fight with anyone .Oldbear83 said:I happen to know two Finns, and several Russians. No sane Russian wants a fight with Finland.Canada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Its usually the elites starting wars and the poor shmucks fighting and dying in them .
For what its worth Finland accepts a lot of credit for its tough fight against the Soviet Union early in WW2 .
What is generally glossed over is how Finland later become a limited ally of Nazi Germany and had thousands of its men volunteer join the SS .
The Russians I know consider WW2 important History, but History. The Finns I know regard WW2 as unfinished business.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
As the Nazis military was staggering back toward Berlin pursued by the Red Army.......Finland had to beg for still another peace treaty from Stalin .Oldbear83 said:The thing about the Finns, is that they have a bone to pick with a lot of people, and in my experience regard any Russian as the embodiment of every foul evil they ever heard about in their lives.Canada2017 said:No sane Finn wants to fight Russia either . In fact no sane person wants to fight with anyone .Oldbear83 said:I happen to know two Finns, and several Russians. No sane Russian wants a fight with Finland.Canada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Its usually the elites starting wars and the poor shmucks fighting and dying in them .
For what its worth Finland accepts a lot of credit for its tough fight against the Soviet Union early in WW2 .
What is generally glossed over is how Finland later become a limited ally of Nazi Germany and had thousands of its men volunteer join the SS .
The Russians I know consider WW2 important History, but History. The Finns I know regard WW2 as unfinished business.
For whatever reason Staling granted fairly reasonable terms .
For decades following the end of the war Finland wisely kept to a very strict policy of neutrality . Always watching over its shoulder as to make sure not to anger the Russian bear.
Which is why Finland's recent application to join NATO ( along with Sweden's ) is, in my view , the single most historic / dramatic development of this Ukrainian war. .
Up to this point anyway .
Putin could do almost anything to change that .
You seem to be implying Finland is afraid of Russia.
I would say that is far from an accurate appraisal.
I would say that is far from an accurate appraisal.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Some would say they were the original Russians.Canada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Good grief , of course Finland is afraid of Russia.Oldbear83 said:
You seem to be implying Finland is afraid of Russia.
Finland didn't apply for membership into NATO for any other reason .
So you speak for the Finns now?Canada2017 said:Good grief , of course Finland is afraid of Russia.Oldbear83 said:
You seem to be implying Finland is afraid of Russia.
Finland didn't apply for membership into NATO for any other reason .
They have nothing else in the way of motive but 'RussiaRussiaRussia'?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:So you speak for the Finns now?Canada2017 said:Good grief , of course Finland is afraid of Russia.Oldbear83 said:
You seem to be implying Finland is afraid of Russia.
Finland didn't apply for membership into NATO for any other reason .
They have nothing else in the way of motive but 'RussiaRussiaRussia'?
Why else would they end decades of strict neutrality and enter into a defensive alliance specifically created for mutual defense against the Soviet Union ? The major remaining component of which is, of course, Russia .
Think Finland embarked on such a historical alteration just for the hell of it ?
uhhhhhCanada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
It is a "lend-lease" arrangement. I have not seen the details and would not be surprised if they have not been published. Frankly, that doesn't worry me.RMF5630 said:I agree with you on this. Ukraine needs to pay for the weapons, be a good member of the free world and if we want allow military bases. The west is helping, but there is a price for that.Doc Holliday said:If this is how it has to be, Ukraine needs to pay us back tenfold for however long it takes. I'm tired of spending billions elsewhere while we the taxpayers get ****ing screwed.whiterock said:To say it? Yes!Doc Holliday said:But would this be a good idea?whiterock said:Zelensky can say whatever he wants for domestic or foreign purposes.Doc Holliday said:Should we do what Zelensky wants?Quote:exchanged for sovereignty an assurances of assistance if invaded..... USA is making good on a pledge. The right pledge, the right place, in mostly the right ways.Quote:Quote:Quote:
of course it's worth it. that's why Ukrainians are willing to die for it. Freedom does tend to inspire.
the "NATO started" it argument has some shocking faulty assumptions, chief among which is the notion that Ukrainians are stooge drones who are only fighting because Nato is making them do it.
The Ukranians want and are willing to fight for their own Nation. They returned all the nukes that were there in the 90's, which they helped pay for, in exchange for Soverignty. Russia agreed. Now to attack Crimea and Ukraine after Ukraine lived up to their end of deal is reprehensible.
I am partial, I helped get two Ukranian Nationals legally out and to the US and have spoken with them about the situation. It is horrific what the Russians do and how they operate. Ukraine has the ability to add positively to NATO and the EU, we have invested in a lit of nations with much less up side than Ukraine.
Ukrainians have firmly decided as a peoples that they wish to become part of Europe rather than Eurasia. The American ethos is that peoples are entitled to decide and act on questions like that. We should continue to provide arms & ammo to Ukraine, until there are no more Ukrainians asking for arms and ammo. The dishonor would be to abandon them on the battlefield.NEW - Ukraine's Zelensky calls on NATO to launch "preemptive strikes" against Russia to "eliminate the possibility" of a Russian nuclear strike.pic.twitter.com/gj6mSRZfFF
— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) October 6, 2022
It doesn't obligate us to do anything.
And he knows that.
To do it? No!
It is entirely fitting and proper to respond to Russian nuclear saber rattling with threats of something wildly unpalatable to Russia. And what purportedly scares them most? Ukr in Nato. So threaten them that continuing to invade Ukr is the surest way to have Ukr in Nato....that the best way to prevent that from happening is to sue for peace.
Never, ever, bend to pressure (unless you HAVE to).
MAKE THE OTHER GUY BEND. (particularly when you are the bigger dog in the fight).
It would be unwise to actually admit Ukr to Nato because of the risk of future political instability.....the scenario of a replay of events of UKR in 2014 only to our disfavor. We would have in our lap exactly the scenario that laid out before as justifying our current Ukr policy....a crisis INSIDE Nato threatening the collapse of the entire alliance.**
guys. the threat to admit Ukr to Nato is not the problem. It's the deterrence. We should be opening up talks with Armenia, and Georgia (again) about Nato membership. Ramp up the pressure. Russia cannot defend against all these threats. They will not nuke the world to stop diplomatic initiatives. But they might blink. They might offer to withdraw in exchange for.......(no Nato expansion).
THEN we can have peace talks.
But until then, keep cranking the wrenches.
And nothing lubricates power like strategic ambiguity.
We must make Putin fear that he is about to have a strategic loss from which Russia cannot recover in his lifetime.
(note Pelosi visited Armenia last month.....)
(Hell, I'd be willing to send a Nato delegation to Kazakhstan if they'd have us.)
**an alliance needs stability. Including members who cannot be counted upon to stay strongly committed to the alliance are a liability. Look at the conference realignment discussions on other forums here. Do not want to admit a university that would treat us as a placeholder until a better options came along, because the departure is an existential moment for the entire conference. So I'd like to see Ukr as a Nato member 20-30 years down the road, IF/WHEN we assess their traditions and societal institutions have developed to a point where they could be properly be considered an asset to the liberal order. I assess they have the right intentions, but boy do they have a of work to do over coming decades.
Anytime you can have another nation deploy their own sons & daughters into the kill box to defeat your #2 nuclear capable adversary, you do it. And you don't ***** about the price.
This round against Russia is the mother of all bargains.
whiterock said:It is a "lend-lease" arrangement. I have not seen the details and would not be surprised if they have not been published. Frankly, that doesn't worry me.RMF5630 said:I agree with you on this. Ukraine needs to pay for the weapons, be a good member of the free world and if we want allow military bases. The west is helping, but there is a price for that.Doc Holliday said:If this is how it has to be, Ukraine needs to pay us back tenfold for however long it takes. I'm tired of spending billions elsewhere while we the taxpayers get ****ing screwed.whiterock said:To say it? Yes!Doc Holliday said:But would this be a good idea?whiterock said:Zelensky can say whatever he wants for domestic or foreign purposes.Doc Holliday said:Should we do what Zelensky wants?Quote:exchanged for sovereignty an assurances of assistance if invaded..... USA is making good on a pledge. The right pledge, the right place, in mostly the right ways.Quote:Quote:Quote:
of course it's worth it. that's why Ukrainians are willing to die for it. Freedom does tend to inspire.
the "NATO started" it argument has some shocking faulty assumptions, chief among which is the notion that Ukrainians are stooge drones who are only fighting because Nato is making them do it.
The Ukranians want and are willing to fight for their own Nation. They returned all the nukes that were there in the 90's, which they helped pay for, in exchange for Soverignty. Russia agreed. Now to attack Crimea and Ukraine after Ukraine lived up to their end of deal is reprehensible.
I am partial, I helped get two Ukranian Nationals legally out and to the US and have spoken with them about the situation. It is horrific what the Russians do and how they operate. Ukraine has the ability to add positively to NATO and the EU, we have invested in a lit of nations with much less up side than Ukraine.
Ukrainians have firmly decided as a peoples that they wish to become part of Europe rather than Eurasia. The American ethos is that peoples are entitled to decide and act on questions like that. We should continue to provide arms & ammo to Ukraine, until there are no more Ukrainians asking for arms and ammo. The dishonor would be to abandon them on the battlefield.NEW - Ukraine's Zelensky calls on NATO to launch "preemptive strikes" against Russia to "eliminate the possibility" of a Russian nuclear strike.pic.twitter.com/gj6mSRZfFF
— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) October 6, 2022
It doesn't obligate us to do anything.
And he knows that.
To do it? No!
It is entirely fitting and proper to respond to Russian nuclear saber rattling with threats of something wildly unpalatable to Russia. And what purportedly scares them most? Ukr in Nato. So threaten them that continuing to invade Ukr is the surest way to have Ukr in Nato....that the best way to prevent that from happening is to sue for peace.
Never, ever, bend to pressure (unless you HAVE to).
MAKE THE OTHER GUY BEND. (particularly when you are the bigger dog in the fight).
It would be unwise to actually admit Ukr to Nato because of the risk of future political instability.....the scenario of a replay of events of UKR in 2014 only to our disfavor. We would have in our lap exactly the scenario that laid out before as justifying our current Ukr policy....a crisis INSIDE Nato threatening the collapse of the entire alliance.**
guys. the threat to admit Ukr to Nato is not the problem. It's the deterrence. We should be opening up talks with Armenia, and Georgia (again) about Nato membership. Ramp up the pressure. Russia cannot defend against all these threats. They will not nuke the world to stop diplomatic initiatives. But they might blink. They might offer to withdraw in exchange for.......(no Nato expansion).
THEN we can have peace talks.
But until then, keep cranking the wrenches.
And nothing lubricates power like strategic ambiguity.
We must make Putin fear that he is about to have a strategic loss from which Russia cannot recover in his lifetime.
(note Pelosi visited Armenia last month.....)
(Hell, I'd be willing to send a Nato delegation to Kazakhstan if they'd have us.)
**an alliance needs stability. Including members who cannot be counted upon to stay strongly committed to the alliance are a liability. Look at the conference realignment discussions on other forums here. Do not want to admit a university that would treat us as a placeholder until a better options came along, because the departure is an existential moment for the entire conference. So I'd like to see Ukr as a Nato member 20-30 years down the road, IF/WHEN we assess their traditions and societal institutions have developed to a point where they could be properly be considered an asset to the liberal order. I assess they have the right intentions, but boy do they have a of work to do over coming decades.
Anytime you can have another nation deploy their own sons & daughters into the kill box to defeat your #2 nuclear capable adversary, you do it. And you don't ***** about the price.
This round against Russia is the mother of all bargains.
100%. This is a gift.
Russia/Ukraine is a fusion of Slavic and Varangian culture. The root of "Russia" is the word "Rus," meaning viking raiders from Sweden. The lands between the Baltic and Black seas are flat and cut with navigable rivers running north/south....an easy traverse for Viking raiders seeking to expropriate Byzantine wealth. So the Balts and Slavs (of modern Ukr/Russia/Belarus) had the same kinds of interactions with Viking culture that Anglo/Franco culture had to deal with. To deal with that as well as overcome constant internal political strife, Novgorod i(northern Russia, modern Moscovy) invited an out-of-line-of-succession Danish noble/warrior (Rurik) to become their king. He brought with him a kinsman who settled Kiev. The rest, as they say......trey3216 said:uhhhhhCanada2017 said:TrueATL Bear said:The Swedes and Finns have some pretty deep historical connections to Russia too.Sam Lowry said:It's almost as if Russia had a deep historical connection with Ukraine.Bear8084 said:DioNoZeus said:Looks like it's time for you to start building your bunker. I'm sure Florduh has some plans you can borrow.Canada2017 said:Silly deflection .DioNoZeus said:"Old man Biden is an untrustworthy, senile fool except when he's discussing the threat of nuclear war in front of his base."Canada2017 said:Old man Biden has recently stated that the current threat of nuclear war is the highest since the Cuban Missile Crises of 1962.DioNoZeus said:Like I said earlier, hyperbolic EeyoreCanada2017 said:
Somehow I doubt Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina , Chile, India , Laos, Cambodia , Costa Rica, Japan, Columbia , Jordan, Saudi Arabia , New Zealand , and host of other countries throughout the world are all in a self righteous tizzy to risk thermal nuclear war in order to 'make Russia pay'.
Some of you internet Rambo's need to access You Tube and pull up the old films of above ground hydrogen bomb tests last conducted decades ago.
As its clear you don't have anything approaching a clear understanding of what's at risk .
Is he now 'eeyore' as well ?
Get a semblance of a clue.
Please….
200,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and Harris goes out there and resumes calls for Ukrainian membership into NATO.
US decides Putin is bluffing......whoops ...no bluff......invasion begins in earnest.....thousands dead, MILLIONS become refugees .
Now Putin's stooges are calling for the use of 'tactical' nuclear weapons.
US ignores this threat as well ....continues pumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of weapons into the war zone. Weapons that are killing Putin's solders.
But Putin is bluffing THIS time right ?
And even if he throws a few mushroom clouds over the war zone....no biggie.
You can just say 'whoops' from the safety of your keyboard.
Perfect.
Yeah....also the NATO argument went out the window when Sweden and Finland, both western aligned and bitter enemies of Russia right on his doorstep, joined NATO and was met with just a mere shrug by Putin.
Both have fought the Russians frequently .
Lost almost every time .
Mongols kicking Russian ass is a part of Russian worldview.
Vikings kicking Russian ass is a part of Russian worldview.
Khazars/Bulgars/Tatars kicking Russian ass is a part of Russian worldview.
Polish crusader invasions to end Orthodoxy are part of Russian worldview.
Polish/Lithuanian/Hungarian usurpation of Kievan Rus is part of Russian worldview.
Ottoman advances on Russian lands are part of Russian worldview.
French armies advancing on Moscow is part of Russian worldview.
German armies advancing on Moscow is part of Russian worldview.
That is a history of a people who have no defensible borders....9 major invasion routes to defend.
And the Mongols were always happy to accept tribute and let Russia be Russia.
Not so all the others.
During the Cold War, Russia controlled all 9 of those invasion routes, either by including them within the USSR or within the Warsaw Pact. After the fall of USSR and Warsaw Pact, Russia controlled ONE of those invasion routes. All Russian policy over the last 30 years has been driven by the urgency to regain control over those invasion routes. To do so will require them to collapse the eastern edge of Nato. THAT is where they want to go. So we can fight them in Poland and Hungary and the Baltics later with our own boys & girls, or we can fight them in Ukraine now with Ukrainian boys & girls who are eager and happy to do the work.
We are wise to help Ukraine fight them now.
Long live Kievan Rus!
Novgorod can go to hell!
That is the fight we are waging. Where will be the center of Eastern Slavic power/culture? Will it be part of Europe, or Eurasia?
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
I agree. I said they need to pay. Not pay 10X the cost. To me the long term benefits of #2 - good member of the free world entails trade, resources, and being a productive part of the wests economic, educational and R & D community. Finally, the security piece. So, yes I agree that Ukraine not only joining the West, but willing to fight is a bargain. Putin knows it as well, or he would not be doing what he is doing.whiterock said:It is a "lend-lease" arrangement. I have not seen the details and would not be surprised if they have not been published. Frankly, that doesn't worry me.RMF5630 said:I agree with you on this. Ukraine needs to pay for the weapons, be a good member of the free world and if we want allow military bases. The west is helping, but there is a price for that.Doc Holliday said:If this is how it has to be, Ukraine needs to pay us back tenfold for however long it takes. I'm tired of spending billions elsewhere while we the taxpayers get ****ing screwed.whiterock said:To say it? Yes!Doc Holliday said:But would this be a good idea?whiterock said:Zelensky can say whatever he wants for domestic or foreign purposes.Doc Holliday said:Should we do what Zelensky wants?Quote:exchanged for sovereignty an assurances of assistance if invaded..... USA is making good on a pledge. The right pledge, the right place, in mostly the right ways.Quote:Quote:Quote:
of course it's worth it. that's why Ukrainians are willing to die for it. Freedom does tend to inspire.
the "NATO started" it argument has some shocking faulty assumptions, chief among which is the notion that Ukrainians are stooge drones who are only fighting because Nato is making them do it.
The Ukranians want and are willing to fight for their own Nation. They returned all the nukes that were there in the 90's, which they helped pay for, in exchange for Soverignty. Russia agreed. Now to attack Crimea and Ukraine after Ukraine lived up to their end of deal is reprehensible.
I am partial, I helped get two Ukranian Nationals legally out and to the US and have spoken with them about the situation. It is horrific what the Russians do and how they operate. Ukraine has the ability to add positively to NATO and the EU, we have invested in a lit of nations with much less up side than Ukraine.
Ukrainians have firmly decided as a peoples that they wish to become part of Europe rather than Eurasia. The American ethos is that peoples are entitled to decide and act on questions like that. We should continue to provide arms & ammo to Ukraine, until there are no more Ukrainians asking for arms and ammo. The dishonor would be to abandon them on the battlefield.NEW - Ukraine's Zelensky calls on NATO to launch "preemptive strikes" against Russia to "eliminate the possibility" of a Russian nuclear strike.pic.twitter.com/gj6mSRZfFF
— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) October 6, 2022
It doesn't obligate us to do anything.
And he knows that.
To do it? No!
It is entirely fitting and proper to respond to Russian nuclear saber rattling with threats of something wildly unpalatable to Russia. And what purportedly scares them most? Ukr in Nato. So threaten them that continuing to invade Ukr is the surest way to have Ukr in Nato....that the best way to prevent that from happening is to sue for peace.
Never, ever, bend to pressure (unless you HAVE to).
MAKE THE OTHER GUY BEND. (particularly when you are the bigger dog in the fight).
It would be unwise to actually admit Ukr to Nato because of the risk of future political instability.....the scenario of a replay of events of UKR in 2014 only to our disfavor. We would have in our lap exactly the scenario that laid out before as justifying our current Ukr policy....a crisis INSIDE Nato threatening the collapse of the entire alliance.**
guys. the threat to admit Ukr to Nato is not the problem. It's the deterrence. We should be opening up talks with Armenia, and Georgia (again) about Nato membership. Ramp up the pressure. Russia cannot defend against all these threats. They will not nuke the world to stop diplomatic initiatives. But they might blink. They might offer to withdraw in exchange for.......(no Nato expansion).
THEN we can have peace talks.
But until then, keep cranking the wrenches.
And nothing lubricates power like strategic ambiguity.
We must make Putin fear that he is about to have a strategic loss from which Russia cannot recover in his lifetime.
(note Pelosi visited Armenia last month.....)
(Hell, I'd be willing to send a Nato delegation to Kazakhstan if they'd have us.)
**an alliance needs stability. Including members who cannot be counted upon to stay strongly committed to the alliance are a liability. Look at the conference realignment discussions on other forums here. Do not want to admit a university that would treat us as a placeholder until a better options came along, because the departure is an existential moment for the entire conference. So I'd like to see Ukr as a Nato member 20-30 years down the road, IF/WHEN we assess their traditions and societal institutions have developed to a point where they could be properly be considered an asset to the liberal order. I assess they have the right intentions, but boy do they have a of work to do over coming decades.
Anytime you can have another nation deploy their own sons & daughters into the kill box to defeat your #2 nuclear capable adversary, you do it. And you don't ***** about the price.
This round against Russia is the mother of all bargains.
In my opinion, the transition zone from East to West - Finland, Baltics, Ukraine, and Turkey are the most important and interesting parts of the world. Belarus is Russian and I don't see them moving West.
I think the area of Russia people under estimate is Siberia. That are alone could be a superpower. From the Urals to Pacific is enormous and resource dense. Russia is not running out of space or resources anytime soon. The Communists have really done a poor job of developing what they have.
Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees. The democrats own the weakness that precipitated the invasion. So they don't gain anything from this.
Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
Heroism, self sacrifice, struggle and loss of life for a righteous cause are good things. You are correct when you say it's not a war about machismo. It's a war about freedom and self determination in the face of a great evil. It's not avoidable once Russia invaded. The only responses were slavery to a tyrant or opposition to same. The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
Heroism, self sacrifice, struggle and loss of life for a righteous cause are good things. You are correct when you say it's not a war about machismo. It's a war about freedom and self determination in the face of a great evil. It's not avoidable once Russia invaded. The only responses were slavery to a tyrant or opposition to same. The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
Well said.
I saw Kuwait, I will never think like those that say it is not worth it. I was there and spoke with the Kuwaitis in 1991. Stuck with me.
You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .
With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......
The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.
But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.
This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.
And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.
May God help us all.
Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
Yeah, they are indeed happy to do the work, because they benefit the most = their own country free from Russian domination.
win-win relationship
whiterock said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
Yeah, they are indeed happy to do the work, because they benefit the most = their own country free from Russian domination.
win-win relationship
Sure
Millions love to be refugees in foreign countries .
Thousands more enjoy burying their children.
Who could possibly doubt it ?
one less off-ramp.
- KKM
D!
- KKM
D!
>>Carve away the stone (Sisyhpus)
Carve away the stone
Make a graven image
With some features of your own<<
Carve away the stone
Make a graven image
With some features of your own<<
Canada2017 said:Oldbear83 said:So you speak for the Finns now?Canada2017 said:Good grief , of course Finland is afraid of Russia.Oldbear83 said:
You seem to be implying Finland is afraid of Russia.
Finland didn't apply for membership into NATO for any other reason .
They have nothing else in the way of motive but 'RussiaRussiaRussia'?
Why else would they end decades of strict neutrality and enter into a defensive alliance specifically created for mutual defense against the Soviet Union ? The major remaining component of which is, of course, Russia .
Think Finland embarked on such a historical alteration just for the hell of it ?
There you go again. If you want to understand , consider other relevant data such as why Finland made their application jointly with Sweden, and why now instead of earlier.
There is more than dimension to this matter, Canada.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Canada2017 said:You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .
With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......
The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.
But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.
This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.
And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.
May God help us all.
Isn't that pretty much what happened in Venezula? Not to mention numerous other Countries? Enlighten yourself.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2018/05/03/russia-playing-geopolitical-game-in-latin-america-pub-76228
NATO is a defense treaty. Russia is an army of aggression.Canada2017 said:You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .
With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......
The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.
But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.
This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.
And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.
May God help us all.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
you should move your ass somewhere else if you're so against the US.Canada2017 said:You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .
With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......
The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.
But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.
This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.
And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.
May God help us all.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
He's a simpleton who repeats himself constantly.trey3216 said:you should move your ass somewhere else if you're so against the US.Canada2017 said:You are too intelligent to believe the Ukrainian leadership made their choices unhindered by years of US involvement in Ukrainian politics and economic development . Culminating in the pushing of Ukrainian membership into NATO.....an obviously provocative and strategically unnecessary act.Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:Golem said:Canada2017 said:
Thousands of Ukrainians are dead .
Millions more are refugees, forced to flee their homes and jobs to other countries .
Cities leveled , farms destroyed, routine services eliminated or disrupted.
Billions of dollars the US simply doesn't possess ……money desperately needed to help our mentally will and homeless ; gleefully given away .
For the first time since 1962 ……the leaders of two superpowers are openly discussing the possibly of nuclear weapons being detonated in a combat zone .
But it's all a 'bargain ' …..a 'gift '
Ukrainian boys and girls are 'happy and eager to do the work'.
Gotta luv the internet.
It's a gift. Fight the small fight now or the big fight later. Lose a small number of innocents now or a mass number later. Stop the Lebensraum excuses now in Ukraine or deal with a remade USSR with aspirations to never stop growing.
This is a gift. Any chance to hobble a tyrannical regime is a gift.
A 'gift' only to those safely thousands of miles away .
A 'gift' Dems have worked on since Obama .
No and no. The Ukrainians would very clearly die on their feet than live on their knees.
Yeah those sentiments mean so much to grieving families who had their children burned to death or blown apart into fragments .
To those who have watched everything they have worked their entire lives for ….utterly destroyed .
This war is not about any misguided sense of machismo ….not a video game for our entertainment.
It is a tragedy…an avoidable tragedy that the United States had a direct hand in generating .
But most here will only wake up to the realities involved if and when it's US dead littering the ground .
The Ukrainians chose well. God bless them.
You are too geopolitically astute to be unaware ....that if Russia played the EXACT same game involving MEXICO .
With the final result being a military alliance between Mexico and Russia and the eventual placement of nuclear missiles in Mexico , aimed at the US.......
The US administration......regardless if Democrat or Republican ....would react as outraged as Putin . Would we have invaded .....I don't know.
But all kinds of hell would certainly be on the table.
This current nightmare is not 100% on Putin...not by a mile.
And its only the Ukrainian people paying the price.....so far.
May God help us all.