RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

BS

---

Yeah

Yeah



The internet produces the ultimate 'warriors '.


Right until the DRAFT comes back around .

Then the mad dash for cover occurs.

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

BS

---

Yeah

Yeah



The internet produces the ultimate 'warriors '.


Right until the DRAFT comes back around .

Then the mad dash for cover occurs.

---

we're not gonna have a draft come around. If we did I'd volunteer, and I'm in my 40's.

There is no mad dash for cover when we have a volunteer military.

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

BS

---

Yeah

Yeah



The internet produces the ultimate 'warriors '.


Right until the DRAFT comes back around .

Then the mad dash for cover occurs.

---

we're not gonna have a draft come around. If we did I'd volunteer, and I'm in my 40's.

There is no mad dash for cover when we have a volunteer military.

---

We have not had a draft in 50 years. That is the between the Civil War and WW1, to put in perspective on how much things can change in 50 years.

Now if we want to have a conscription discussion have at it.

We can actually talk about a Policy without first going and doing it to show we understand what the conversation is about.

Crap, at work we are going to be discussing the gas tax later today. I have to go work at a refinery and then pump gas for a month before I can submit my comments on it.

RMF5630 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

BS

---

Yeah

Yeah



The internet produces the ultimate 'warriors '.


Right until the DRAFT comes back around .

Then the mad dash for cover occurs.

---

we're not gonna have a draft come around. If we did I'd volunteer, and I'm in my 40's.

There is no mad dash for cover when we have a volunteer military.

---

We have not had a draft in 50 years. That is the between the Civil War and WW1, to put in perspective on how much things can change in 50 years.

Now if we want to have a conscription discussion have at it.

We can actually talk about a Policy without first going and doing it to show we understand what the conversation is about.

Crap, at work we are going to be discussing the gas tax later today. I have to go work at a refinery and then pump gas for a month before I can submit my comments on it.

---

US draft is not really germane to the discussion.

Ukrainians are willing to step up to the plate. As long as they are willing to do so, we should provide them with arms and ammo.

Much misreading of Russian nuke-rattling, which tends to reflexively impute assumptions that Russia is doing so to win in UKR.

That is not necessarily the best explanation for why they're doing it. They also have to do it precisely because they know they are defeated in Ukr. They cannot stop UKR from re-establishing status quo ante Feb 2022. They can only slow it down. Maybe. A little. They might not be able to stop Ukr from actually invading Russia proper. Of course, Ukr is not going to invade Mother Russia. But no reasonable power could assess such and then not take precautions.

Russia is realizes defeat in Ukr is likely and is preparing to ensure the fight does not cross the border into the Russian heartland.

Redbrickbear said:

---

---

I bet Boeing would welcome it.

Oldbear83 said:

---

1. Vladimir Putin is a known murderer, who has had political opponents killed and journalists liquidated

2. Putin's announced plan for a long time is to make Russia an empire. To do that implies invading at least some of his neighbors

3. The only time in the last four Presidential Administrations that Putin did not invade someone, was when Trump directly threatened Russian military with attacks if he did so.

So tell me again how sending Ukraine weapons to defend their towns and homeland means we want innocent people to die?

And for the record, I'd be fine with signing up, but I'd be the first paratrooper to need a walker to get on board the plane.

---

All true. Doing a PLF at my age will hurt from 3 feet! Nevermind 1250 or 500!

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

The Russians invaded Ukraine. The Ukrainians were always going to fight and die for themselves and their country. The fact we're helping them isn't causing more of them to die. Being rolled by a brutal Russian Army is how you have massive casualties. Our nation stepped up by helping them defend their country with armaments and sanctions, but no boots on ground or airmen in the sky.

Putin had options outside of invasion to try and get the world to align closer to what YOU THINK he wanted (Ukraine not in NATO). Whiterock had a good overview of some of those options. In fact, its likely they never were getting the invite. But what YOU THINK Putin wanted has not been borne out by his actions. He wanted territory, control of the Black Sea, more land and resources to control the flow of Energy to Europe. He wasn't going to get that through negotiation with Ukraine or the West. He probably would have gotten the NATO concession, at least a back door assurance. But since that really wasn't the objective, Putin decided to invade. Ukrainians resisted. Here we are.

---

According to Russia apologists, Putin had no choice. The US is to blame, of course. Which is total Horse****/

---

No one is making that argument. Leaders of countries always have choices.

The argument is that the USA has no vital interests east of the Bug river. (The general assessment of the United States government from the end of WWII until the Baltic States entered NATO in 2004-2005)

And that if NATO's borders were ever moved up to the borders of Russia. The leaders in Moscow would view that in a hostile manner.

I think those have proven to be true statements.

And no matter if its Czar, Communist Supreme Leader, Nationalist dictator, or Democratically elected president...whoever is in charge in Moscow will view that as a threat...whatever the nature of the government or its ideology.

In the end it does not matter now. What's done is done.

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

---

you are so far out in left field on this. It's like you can't figure out what you want to say and you just add word vomit and thought diarrhea together to make a shyt soup sandwich.

---

Gee who could possibly refute such a well articulated personal experience ?

Let's go to war !

Golem said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

No. We don't need to send ours to fight when they have enough already, and just need arms. Like it or not, the US is the global hegemon. We are a stabilizing force in the world and that benefits us tremendously. We can pull in entirely, as you seem to want, but that vacuum will be filled by either China or Russia or both, together. A Sino-Russian hegemony would be the end of a liberal world.

---

Thank you!

Golem said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

No. We don't need to send ours to fight when they have enough already, and just need arms. Like it or not, the US is the global hegemon. We are a stabilizing force in the world and that benefits us tremendously. We can pull in entirely, as you seem to want, but that vacuum will be filled by either China or Russia or both, together. A Sino-Russian hegemony would be the end of a liberal world.

---

95% of the time we agree .

This is the other 5 % .

The US is trillions in debt and on the verge of a severe recession ...if not depression . Our government is actively suppressing free speech one step at a time and the 2nd amendment is under attack . Our president is a full on dementia case and that is no exaggeration .

We don't have the resources, leadership or unity necessary to continue our past role of world's policeman .

BTW

No one in 1964 ever dreamed we would end up years later with 60,000 KIA's in Vietnam . Everyone thought our military was simply 1st rate in everything . We were just going to 'bomb them into the stone age '.

Well, we lost. And in the process the cultural fabric of the US was damaged for at least 12 years.

And North Vietnam didn't have nukes...tactical or otherwise.

Putin has thousands of them .

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

---

Again, we literally had the same situation in Central America and didn't do what you're saying we would.

But I'm someone who's been close to the horrors of war, so you can back off the John Wayne and video game comment. The massacres of being out armed by ruthless enemies results in immense brutality. And Russia's got a serious track record of this. I don't want US boots on the ground, but I'm ok giving resources to help defend themselves.

---

This is nothing like Viet Nam. This is a sovereign nation asking for help from invasion. This is not stepping into a poliical civil war. Ukraine is a stable Govt, Viet Nam had 12 govts in 2 years. There is no Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is no draft. To say this is Viet Nam is ridiculous and showsa lack of understanding.

The US is providing assistance, there are no US service men fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine does not want someone else to fight for their Nation, they are doing that themselves.

A Soverign nation the west has courted from decades asks for help, you help.

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

---

Again, we literally had the same situation in Central America and didn't do what you're saying we would.

But I'm someone who's been close to the horrors of war, so you can back off the John Wayne and video game comment. The massacres of being out armed by ruthless enemies results in immense brutality. And Russia's got a serious track record of this. I don't want US boots on the ground, but I'm ok giving resources to help defend themselves.

---

This is nothing like Viet Nam. This is a sovereign nation asking for help from invasion. This is not stepping into a poliical civil war. Ukraine is a stable Govt, Viet Nam had 12 govts in 2 years. There is no Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is no draft. To say this is Viet Nam is ridiculous and showsa lack of understanding.

The US is providing assistance, there are no US service men fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine does not want someone else to fight for their Nation, they are doing that themselves.

A Soverign nation the west has courted from decades asks for help, you help.

---

Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed .

We are STILL in South Korea 30,000 strong SEVENTY years after a truce was established.

Iraq is still a mess 5000 US dead later and Iran empowered .

After billions spent in Afghanistan and years of dead US servicemen the Biden Administration just abandoned 4-5 BILLION dollars worth of weaponry to the Taliban….an acknowledged terrorist organization.

When the **** are you going to figure it out ?

Being the worlds policeman is not a winning proposition and the US isn't any good at it to begin with ,

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

---

Again, we literally had the same situation in Central America and didn't do what you're saying we would.

But I'm someone who's been close to the horrors of war, so you can back off the John Wayne and video game comment. The massacres of being out armed by ruthless enemies results in immense brutality. And Russia's got a serious track record of this. I don't want US boots on the ground, but I'm ok giving resources to help defend themselves.

---

This is nothing like Viet Nam. This is a sovereign nation asking for help from invasion. This is not stepping into a poliical civil war. Ukraine is a stable Govt, Viet Nam had 12 govts in 2 years. There is no Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is no draft. To say this is Viet Nam is ridiculous and showsa lack of understanding.

The US is providing assistance, there are no US service men fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine does not want someone else to fight for their Nation, they are doing that themselves.

A Soverign nation the west has courted from decades asks for help, you help.

---

Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed .

We are STILL in South Korea 30,000 strong SEVENTY years after a truce was established.

Iraq is still a mess 5000 US dead later and Iran empowered .

After billions spent in Afghanistan and years of dead US servicemen the Biden Administration just abandoned 4-5 BILLION dollars worth of weaponry to the Taliban….an acknowledged terrorist organization.

When the **** are you going to figure it out ?

Being the worlds policeman is not a winning proposition and the US isn't any good at it to begin with ,

---

we're doing a pretty good job in Ukraine right now....

Canada2017: "Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed ."

That's both an important lesson, and yet also a trap leading to false assumptions.

Vietnam started back during the Eisenhower Administration, and carried through the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations into Nixon's time. The final collapse of South Vietnam, of course, was the doing of the Democrats while Ford was President. There was a viable plan in place which the Congress abandoned, knowing Ford lacked the power to protect the South Vietnamese from invasion.

One of the underconsidered lessons from the Vietnam conflict, is that to a degree the Domino Theory was right. The loss of South Vietnam led to trouble for the entire region. In the long term, it would have been better for the world if the US had planned for more than just a war which goals and commitment changed according to the public mood.

Russia, historically, has always seen its neighbors as targets for acquisition. Various excuses have been offered to justify the wars, but the only times Russia has held back from wars of aggression, is when they have a means of prosperity tied to peace, or when strong nations have made clear that war would not succeed.

That means that with regard to Ukraine, the US will have a lot to do with the stability of Europe in its decisions. Germany and France, in particular, have shown they will cow to Russia when no one appears ready to stop the Russians.

But no one is saying we should commit US troops. Biden, foolish as he is, understands not to cross that line.

And I do agree that there is a limit to how much in weapons we should donate to Ukraine. At some point there needs to be a discussion about where we call an end to being Ukraine's arsenal.

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Months of internet saber rattling about how the United States should aid Ukraine .


But not a single Rambo has actually enlisted to go over there.



Shocking

---

Meh to this type of argument. If I change my screenname to Kissinger, then am I required to sign up for the diplomatic service before expressing an opinion?

---

Promoting courses of action that probably will result in the death of others without stepping up to the plate is bull*****

---

Here we are.

---

Vividly remember this same kind of naive group think as the Vietnam War rolled in.

Step by incredibly stupid step. First just weapons, then just 'advisors'...then 500,000 troops and almost 60,000 KIA.

As long as someone else was doing the fighting and getting shot up or killed ...the John Wayne mentally was immensely popular.

Guess what ? It didn't stay 'popular' once the caskets began coming in by the hundreds .

Keeping this simple for all you John Wayne fans .

IF RUSSIA PLAYED THIS SAME GEOPOLITICAL GAME WITH MEXICO the response of the United States would be damn well similar .

We have been led by the nose by the Democratic party ...step by predictable step...into a possible nuclear war.



This is the real deal...no video game 'overs' .

---

Again, we literally had the same situation in Central America and didn't do what you're saying we would.

But I'm someone who's been close to the horrors of war, so you can back off the John Wayne and video game comment. The massacres of being out armed by ruthless enemies results in immense brutality. And Russia's got a serious track record of this. I don't want US boots on the ground, but I'm ok giving resources to help defend themselves.

---

This is nothing like Viet Nam. This is a sovereign nation asking for help from invasion. This is not stepping into a poliical civil war. Ukraine is a stable Govt, Viet Nam had 12 govts in 2 years. There is no Gulf of Tonkin incident. There is no draft. To say this is Viet Nam is ridiculous and showsa lack of understanding.

The US is providing assistance, there are no US service men fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine does not want someone else to fight for their Nation, they are doing that themselves.

A Soverign nation the west has courted from decades asks for help, you help.

---

Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed .

We are STILL in South Korea 30,000 strong SEVENTY years after a truce was established.

Iraq is still a mess 5000 US dead later and Iran empowered .

After billions spent in Afghanistan and years of dead US servicemen the Biden Administration just abandoned 4-5 BILLION dollars worth of weaponry to the Taliban….an acknowledged terrorist organization.

When the **** are you going to figure it out ?

Being the worlds policeman is not a winning proposition and the US isn't any good at it to begin with ,

---

we're doing a pretty good job in Ukraine right now....

---

Thousands of Ukrainian civilians and solders dead .

Countryside burned , cities flattened , millions of refugees forced out of their homes into other countries .

Billions of US dollars spent while hundreds of thousands of our own mentally ill are living ( and dying ) on the streets .

But hey Ukraine officially applied for NATO membership !


All worth it .

US foreign policy continues to rock .

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017: "Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed ."

That's both an important lesson, and yet also a trap leading to false assumptions.

Vietnam started back during the Eisenhower Administration, and carried through the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations into Nixon's time. The final collapse of South Vietnam, of course, was the doing of the Democrats while Ford was President. There was a viable plan in place which the Congress abandoned, knowing Ford lacked the power to protect the South Vietnamese from invasion.

One of the underconsidered lessons from the Vietnam conflict, is that to a degree the Domino Theory was right. The loss of South Vietnam led to trouble for the entire region. In the long term, it would have been better for the world if the US had planned for more than just a war which goals and commitment changed according to the public mood.

Russia, historically, has always seen its neighbors as targets for acquisition. Various excuses have been offered to justify the wars, but the only times Russia has held back from wars of aggression, is when they have a means of prosperity tied to peace, or when strong nations have made clear that war would not succeed.

That means that with regard to Ukraine, the US will have a lot to do with the stability of Europe in its decisions. Germany and France, in particular, have shown they will cow to Russia when no one appears ready to stop the Russians.

But no one is saying we should commit US troops. Biden, foolish as he is, understands not to cross that line.

And I do agree that there is a limit to how much in weapons we should donate to Ukraine. At some point there needs to be a discussion about where we call an end to being Ukraine's arsenal.

---

This is not a US issue, we are responding to requests for assistance. We should continue to supply conventional weapon assistance as long as needed. That said, Ukraine needs to pay for it, over time of course, but this is not a free ride. We do not help out of the goodness of heart, Ukraine needs to a member of NATO if for no other reason to provide value for investment to help protect them. I view NATO as trade partners, defense partners and allies.

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017: "Vietnam began as 'weapons support '….then 'advisors on the ground '….then finally 500,000 troops deployed ."

That's both an important lesson, and yet also a trap leading to false assumptions.

Vietnam started back during the Eisenhower Administration, and carried through the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations into Nixon's time. The final collapse of South Vietnam, of course, was the doing of the Democrats while Ford was President. There was a viable plan in place which the Congress abandoned, knowing Ford lacked the power to protect the South Vietnamese from invasion.

One of the underconsidered lessons from the Vietnam conflict, is that to a degree the Domino Theory was right. The loss of South Vietnam led to trouble for the entire region. In the long term, it would have been better for the world if the US had planned for more than just a war which goals and commitment changed according to the public mood.

Russia, historically, has always seen its neighbors as targets for acquisition. Various excuses have been offered to justify the wars, but the only times Russia has held back from wars of aggression, is when they have a means of prosperity tied to peace, or when strong nations have made clear that war would not succeed.

That means that with regard to Ukraine, the US will have a lot to do with the stability of Europe in its decisions. Germany and France, in particular, have shown they will cow to Russia when no one appears ready to stop the Russians.

But no one is saying we should commit US troops. Biden, foolish as he is, understands not to cross that line.

And I do agree that there is a limit to how much in weapons we should donate to Ukraine. At some point there needs to be a discussion about where we call an end to being Ukraine's arsenal.

---

This is not a US issue, we are responding to requests for assistance. We should continue to supply conventional weapon assistance as long as needed. That said, Ukraine needs to pay for it, over time of course, but this is not a free ride.

---

Where do you get this **** ?

The Obama administration began this mess interfering in Ukrainian elections . Then Biden continually pushed for Ukrainian NATO membership ( and the eventual placement of weapons aimed at Russia ) even with 200,000 Russian positioned along the Russian-Ukrainian border.

How can anyone possibly ignore these realities ? Really think they happen in a geopolitical vacuum ?



And exactly which war was the US ever re paid ?

BBC's Jeremy Bowen, pretends to be on the frontline, whilst a woman looks on, seemingly bemused. pic.twitter.com/pEYlECelSB

— Mark Jameson (@MarkJamesonArt) October 4, 2022

Doc Holliday said:

---

BBC's Jeremy Bowen, pretends to be on the frontline, whilst a woman looks on, seemingly bemused. pic.twitter.com/pEYlECelSB

— Mark Jameson (@MarkJamesonArt) October 4, 2022

---

That is good. All she needed was groceries or something.

Doc Holliday said:

---

BBC's Jeremy Bowen, pretends to be on the frontline, whilst a woman looks on, seemingly bemused. pic.twitter.com/pEYlECelSB

— Mark Jameson (@MarkJamesonArt) October 4, 2022

---

I guess it is nice to know it isn't just American entertainment reporters err I mean journalists who lie about their 'war zone" coverage or fake their hurricane coverage.

So now Poland is formally requesting US nuclear weapons be placed in their country.

Reports coming out the Russia is going to attack Poland. Maybe because the Nordstream sabotage?

Ukraine claims they're preparing for a nuclear strike with evacuation centers being setup.

Are we knocking on the door of WW3?

Doc Holliday said:

---

So now Poland is formally requesting US nuclear weapons be placed in their country.

Reports coming out the Russia is going to attack Poland. Maybe because the Nordstream sabotage?

Ukraine claims they're preparing for a nuclear strike with evacuation centers being setup.

Are we knocking on the door of WW3?

---

Soon as Germany backed down, Putin ups ante.

Putin is cooked (as if we didn't know that)

EU officials say PRC diplomats have removed talking points blaming NATO for the conflict in Ukraine & made clear that the use of nuclear weapons by Russia would be viewed as totally unacceptable in Beijing. Read ⁦@noahbarkin⁩ Watching China in Europe https://t.co/ArYNT7twxP

— Bonnie Glaser / 葛來儀 🇺🇦 (@BonnieGlaser) October 5, 2022

Doc Holliday said:

---

Are we knocking on the door of WW3?

---

No. Biden and his handlers are busting down the door for WW3 .

This administration is insane.......and Americans as a group STILL don't get it .

Distracted as they are with pronouns , White Nationalism and global warming . All of which will fly right out the window with the first mushroom cloud .

As I am beginning to suspect Putin will roll the dice and detonate a single.... low yield.... tactical nuke in Ukraine within the coming weeks .

As folks in the West really don't believe his threats.....again .