https://www.axios.com/2024/07/05/trump-project-2025-heritage-foundation

Trump torches Heritage Foundation's Project 2025
Former President Trump on Friday disavowed the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which has sparked widespread news coverage about policy plans for a potential second Trump administration.

Why it matters: Project 2025 has long annoyed Trump and his top campaign officials, despite the deep links and allies shared by the two entities. Lately, Democrats have been attacking Project 2025 as a proxy for the stakes of defeating "MAGA Republicans."

Trump's disavowal comes two days after Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts drew outrage from Democrats with his comments about a "second American Revolution" on Steve Bannon's radio show.
"[W]e are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be," Roberts said, declaring that "the radical left" was "apoplectic" because "our side is winning."
What they're saying: "I know nothing about Project 2025," Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.

"I have no idea who is behind it. I disagree with some of the things they're saying and some of the things they're saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. Anything they do, I wish them luck, but I have nothing to do with them."
Reality check: A plethora of former Trump administration officials have worked on and endorsed Project 2025.

John McEntee, former director of the White House Presidential Personnel Office and one of Trump's most trusted aides, is a senior adviser for the project.
McEntee said in April that the Trump campaign and Projext 2025 plan to "integrate a lot of our work" this summer, according to the liberal watchdog Media Matters.
Project 2025 responded to Trump's comments on X: "As we've been saying for more than two years now, Project 2025 does not speak for any candidate or campaign."

"We are a coalition of more than 110 conservative groups advocating policy & personnel recommendations for the next conservative president."
"But it is ultimately up to that president, who we believe will be President Trump, to decide which recommendations to implement."
The other side: "Project 2025 is the extreme policy and personnel playbook for Trump's second term that should scare the hell out of the American people," Biden campaign spokesman Ammar Moussa said in a statement to Axios.

"Project 2025 staff and leadership routinely tout their connections to Trump's team, and are the same people leading the RNC policy platform and Trump's debate prep, campaign, and inner circle."
Behind the scenes: We're told Trump hated the credit Project 2025 got, and campaign aides found the coverage confusing. The campaign has its own detailed policy plans, Agenda47.

Axios scooped last week that the Biden campaign planned to use the CNN debate to launch a new offensive against the Heritage Foundation's plans to transform the U.S. government.
Moussa pointed out on X Friday that Trump's main super PAC, MAGA Inc., is running ads promoting a website called "Trump Project 2025."
A source familiar with the website tells Axios the term "Project 2025" was used to capture search traffic inspired by Democratic ads. The site doesn't link to or promote Heritage's project, and instead contrasts Trump and Biden policies.
How it works: Project 2025 is an effort to concentrate the president's control over the executive branch to override checks that otherwise could restrain his power.

A key tenet of the project is "Schedule F," an executive order that would allow the president to strip thousands of federal employees of employment protections, fire them and replace them with ideological loyalists.
Late in his previous administration, Trump signed an executive order creating a Schedule F job classification, which could apply to as many as 50,000 federal workers.
Zoom in: Since the order was signed in October 2020, the Trump administration didn't have time to fully implement it, and the Biden administration rescinded it before it could go into effect.

The Biden administration finalized a rule earlier this year that strengthens existing protections for civil servants and to slow efforts to undermine them.
However, Trump has promised to reimplement Schedule F "on day one" of his administration.
Between the lines: The Trump campaign has said it welcomes outsiders' efforts to collect and vet resumes for a potential second term. But the campaign itself never embraced Project 2025's 922-page policy handbook.

What they're saying: Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita, co-managers of the Trump campaign, have issued several statements distancing Trump from such outside efforts.

"Despite our being crystal clear, some 'allies' haven't gotten the hint, and the media, in their anti-Trump zeal, has been all-to-willing to continue using anonymous sourcing and speculation about a second Trump administration in an effort to prevent a second Trump administration," a December statement said.
Axios has reached out to the Heritage Foundation and Trump campaign for comment.

Editor's note: This story has been updated with additional details.

Trump takes 6-point lead over Biden nationally, gains significant ground with independent voters: WSJ pollhttps://t.co/hgqjHsFKka

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) July 4, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!

---

We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.

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federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.

---

I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon

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none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.

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I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)

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When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.

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And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.

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Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.

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It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.

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It's idiotic to keep wasting money if it cannot be justified. Who cares what some bureaucrat spoiled by taxpayer dollars thinks can be done? If they have zero record of actual accomplishment, we have no reason to believe they can do snugging but waste more money. Our national debt is rapidly approaching $35 trillion. It must be brought under control and an essential first step is to eliminate waste. DoEd is a prime example, probably the best example.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!

---

We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.

---

federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.

---

I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon

---

none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.

---

I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)

---

When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.

---

And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.

---

Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.

---

It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.

---

That in bold plus defense of sunk costs is the accelerant fuel for the 40 year trainwreck that is the DOEd.
New idea that will fix it! It needs more money (thereby subsidizing failure so it can go on a fail some more.)

Stop. Start over.

Let the Dept of Commerce administer the student loan program with goal oriented focus: What are needs of the economy? What are needs of National Defense? What kind of graduates do we need. Allocate school loans by degree based on needs for JOBS. They can also run school loan packages like investments, putting more investment based criteria on the loans - how much money does it cost to get degree X vs what are income projections for that degree in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

DOD take over the same aimed at National Security needs.
DHS could handle law enforcement needs.

and so on.

Education professionals have had their chance to show us what they can do.
They screwed the pooch

---

I can go with all of that. That is different than just scrap it to reduce Govt. A smaller Govt is not necessarily a better Govt.

I like Commerce and SL. I like tying SL to military and tech needs, with pay back on other side. I am all for business internships through businesses to train.

I don't need a big or small Govt, I need an effective Govt. Denmark and Singapore tax alot but deliver quality. I am good. Others are low tax and allow access. I am good. I want functional effectiveness.

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Considering how bloated and inept our government is, smaller govt might automatically be better. You are correct: effective government is what is needed most. That comes from downsizing although not the only means.

I doubt I agree with all the details but Project 2025 seems like a great step in the right direction. Obama promised to "fundamentally transform America". He succeeded in his three terms and we are seeing the disastrous results. We need to undo the damage and restore our country: the economy, the border, military strength, etc. Project 2025 might be the antithesis of Obama's fascist, dystopian nightmare.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

---

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!

---

We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.

---

federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.

---

I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon

---

none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.

---

I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)

---

When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.

---

And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.

---

Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.

---

It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.

---

That in bold plus defense of sunk costs is the accelerant fuel for the 40 year trainwreck that is the DOEd.
New idea that will fix it! It needs more money (thereby subsidizing failure so it can go on a fail some more.)

Stop. Start over.

Let the Dept of Commerce administer the student loan program with goal oriented focus: What are needs of the economy? What are needs of National Defense? What kind of graduates do we need. Allocate school loans by degree based on needs for JOBS. They can also run school loan packages like investments, putting more investment based criteria on the loans - how much money does it cost to get degree X vs what are income projections for that degree in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

DOD take over the same aimed at National Security needs.
DHS could handle law enforcement needs.

and so on.

Education professionals have had their chance to show us what they can do.
They screwed the pooch

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I can go with all of that. That is different than just scrap it to reduce Govt. A smaller Govt is not necessarily a better Govt.

I like Commerce and SL. I like tying SL to military and tech needs, with pay back on other side. I am all for business internships through businesses to train.

I don't need a big or small Govt, I need an effective Govt. Denmark and Singapore tax alot but deliver quality. I am good. Others are low tax and allow access. I am good. I want functional effectiveness.

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a smaller government is indeed a better government when you are running Trillion Dollar Deficits.

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And punting on commitments is just as sure a path to destruction.

I have an idea let's half Fed pensions, raise taxes on investments and make developers pay for infrastructure. How about that? We can knock this out in five years, you guys can handle it better than the teacher making 50k ...

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!

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We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.

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federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.

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I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon

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none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.

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I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)

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When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.

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And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.

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Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.

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It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.

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That in bold plus defense of sunk costs is the accelerant fuel for the 40 year trainwreck that is the DOEd.
New idea that will fix it! It needs more money (thereby subsidizing failure so it can go on a fail some more.)

Stop. Start over.

Let the Dept of Commerce administer the student loan program with goal oriented focus: What are needs of the economy? What are needs of National Defense? What kind of graduates do we need. Allocate school loans by degree based on needs for JOBS. They can also run school loan packages like investments, putting more investment based criteria on the loans - how much money does it cost to get degree X vs what are income projections for that degree in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

DOD take over the same aimed at National Security needs.
DHS could handle law enforcement needs.

and so on.

Education professionals have had their chance to show us what they can do.
They screwed the pooch

---

I can go with all of that. That is different than just scrap it to reduce Govt. A smaller Govt is not necessarily a better Govt.

I like Commerce and SL. I like tying SL to military and tech needs, with pay back on other side. I am all for business internships through businesses to train.

I don't need a big or small Govt, I need an effective Govt. Denmark and Singapore tax alot but deliver quality. I am good. Others are low tax and allow access. I am good. I want functional effectiveness.

---

a smaller government is indeed a better government when you are running Trillion Dollar Deficits.

---

And punting on commitments is just as sure a path to destruction.

I have an idea let's half Fed pensions, raise taxes on investments and make developers pay for infrastructure. How about that? We can knock this out in five years, you guys can handle it better than the teacher making 50k ...

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There are no federal pensions for civil service. They all have 401K equivalents and Social Security.

Developers already do pay for infrastructure (streets, sewer, water, electricity).

If you raise taxes on investments, you disincentivize savings and make it harder to build wealth. Remember, the money in savings has already been taxed (when it came in as income). How many times do we want to tax the fruits of peoples' labor?

I am a big fan of all income tax, zero income tax. Let people keep ALL their income. And let them write a check for sales taxes each time they buy something. It will tell them EXACTLY what federal programs REALLY cost.

Nothing would make more Republican voters than a national sales tax.

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You get the point, you guys are picking items that don't impact you. Everything you say to trim the deficit effects others, but this Board is pretty much insulated. So how about higher taxes on the Fed 401k? Most of them shouldn't have jobs right?

Developers do not pay their fair share of infrastructure! Almost every developer is using existing capacity on the roads, Most Developer Agreements go unenforced or they petition to have it removed after the fact. Just trying to get them to put in a signal is a nightmare. Don't get me going on developers. The people that inherit ag land and then develop it are the worst. Scratch the dirt off a farmer and you will find a developer. Than they will ***** when their manure pits have to be moved or they can't just clear cut anymore. Want the money but none of the responsibility. They will say we were here first, yeah you sold that right

Sales taxes impact everyone because everyone buys stuff. Even exempting good and medicine (a good idea) will make the reality of govt burdens apparent to everyone.

Taxing developers is a terrible idea unless you don't want development. The more anything is raced there less of it we will have. It's in everyone's interest to have more development and innovation.

Not only did Biden shun the black girl, not once, but twice, and one of the old white hags that Biden favored cursed her for holding a sign. Look at the evil in that woman’s face. pic.twitter.com/T1RLnZexNy

— John Curtis (@Johnmcurtis) July 6, 2024

Quote:

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And punting on commitments is just as sure a path to destruction.

I have an idea let's half Fed pensions, raise taxes on investments and make developers pay for infrastructure. How about that? We can knock this out in five years, you guys can handle it better than the teacher making 50k ...

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If we cut the size of gov't and fed pensions, we don't need to raise taxes on investments.

Quote:

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You get the point, you guys are picking items that don't impact you. Everything you say to trim the deficit effects others, but this Board is pretty much insulated. So how about higher taxes on the Fed 401k? Most of them shouldn't have jobs right?

Developers do not pay their fair share of infrastructure! Almost every developer is using existing capacity on the roads, Most Developer Agreements go unenforced or they petition to have it removed after the fact. Just trying to get them to put in a signal is a nightmare. Don't get me going on developers. The people that inherit ag land and then develop it are the worst. Scratch the dirt off a farmer and you will find a developer. Than they will ***** when their manure pits have to be moved or they can't just clear cut anymore. Want the money but none of the responsibility. They will say we were here first, yeah you sold that right

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The more illegals we let in, the more development will need to be done

historian said:

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Sales taxes impact everyone because everyone buys stuff. Even exempting good and medicine (a good idea) will make the reality of govt burdens apparent to everyone.

Taxing developers is a terrible idea unless you don't want development. The more anything is raced there less of it we will have. It's in everyone's interest to have more development and innovation.

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Reading his last post, I get the feeling he doesn't want any development at all.

Which is funny, because accessed this website via internet service, which required development.

Dobbs, SfFA v Harvard, 303 Creative v Elenis, Fischer v US, Loper v Raimondo, NRA v Vullo, Corner Post v Board of Governors, etc.

boognish_bear said:

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Hail to the chief …

Trump is brusque and coarse in his criticism but he's generally not wrong. I can't say about this particular instance but most of what I've seen has been spot on.

Whiskey Pete said:

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Quote:

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You get the point, you guys are picking items that don't impact you. Everything you say to trim the deficit effects others, but this Board is pretty much insulated. So how about higher taxes on the Fed 401k? Most of them shouldn't have jobs right?

Developers do not pay their fair share of infrastructure! Almost every developer is using existing capacity on the roads, Most Developer Agreements go unenforced or they petition to have it removed after the fact. Just trying to get them to put in a signal is a nightmare. Don't get me going on developers. The people that inherit ag land and then develop it are the worst. Scratch the dirt off a farmer and you will find a developer. Than they will ***** when their manure pits have to be moved or they can't just clear cut anymore. Want the money but none of the responsibility. They will say we were here first, yeah you sold that right

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The more illegals we let in, the more development will need to be done

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Oh, that won't be a problem. Do you know how many entitlements have already been approved? More than could be built or supported. The County Commissions around the nation just keep approving building. This has the feel of 2008. Just keep approving and building...

Sen. Marco Rubio downplayed concerns about Project 2025 influencing a potential second Trump term Sunday, dismissing the plan as "the work of a think tank." https://t.co/armYwKb7HR

— Axios (@axios) July 7, 2024

Whiskey Pete said:

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Quote:

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And punting on commitments is just as sure a path to destruction.

I have an idea let's half Fed pensions, raise taxes on investments and make developers pay for infrastructure. How about that? We can knock this out in five years, you guys can handle it better than the teacher making 50k ...

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If we cut the size of gov't and fed pensions, we don't need to raise taxes on investments.

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Just as long as the cuts impact those making them too. The Right has a tendency to want to cut things they don't use or need. Just like Left wants to spend on programs. Right just as bad. We ALL need to embrace the suck. Not just the elderly, those that need economic aid and poor. The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

boognish_bear said:

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Sen. Marco Rubio downplayed concerns about Project 2025 influencing a potential second Trump term Sunday, dismissing the plan as "the work of a think tank." https://t.co/armYwKb7HR

— Axios (@axios) July 7, 2024

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that is what it is.. the work of a think tank.

Axios loves the fear porn journalism

4th and Inches said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Sen. Marco Rubio downplayed concerns about Project 2025 influencing a potential second Trump term Sunday, dismissing the plan as "the work of a think tank." https://t.co/armYwKb7HR

— Axios (@axios) July 7, 2024

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that is what it is.. the work of a think tank.

Axios loves the fear porn journalism

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What is in Project 25 that is so bad anyway? Why does Trump need to distance from it?

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

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Charity is not the proper role of the government. It is the role of the church and the people. By taxing people and running that money through the hands of federal bureaucracies, you end up inserting a very expensive middle man into the equation and the more people who feed at that trough, the less the recipients of charity get.

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As I said, the cuts called for generally don't impact the person telling us what should be cut.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

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Charity is not the proper role of the government. It is the role of the church and the people. By taxing people and running that money through the hands of federal bureaucracies, you end up inserting a very expensive middle man into the equation and the more people who feed at that trough, the less the recipients of charity get.

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….and the more often it goes to people who don't need or deserve it, such as bureaucrats.

boognish_bear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Sen. Marco Rubio downplayed concerns about Project 2025 influencing a potential second Trump term Sunday, dismissing the plan as "the work of a think tank." https://t.co/armYwKb7HR

— Axios (@axios) July 7, 2024

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that is what it is.. the work of a think tank.

Axios loves the fear porn journalism

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What is in Project 25 that is so bad anyway? Why does Trump need to distance from it?

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distraction ploy by Democrats.

Campaign has a plan to build a coalition of voters by appealing to the issues in ways that build the coalition, which is not always synonymous with "best intentions" think-tank planning on future legislation.

To the extent Democrats can get Republicans playing defense on less-popular parts of some think-tank plan, that frustrates the Trump campaign effort to stay on message to win the election.

historian said:

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

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Charity is not the proper role of the government. It is the role of the church and the people. By taxing people and running that money through the hands of federal bureaucracies, you end up inserting a very expensive middle man into the equation and the more people who feed at that trough, the less the recipients of charity get.

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….and the more often it goes to people who don't need or deserve it, such as bureaucrats.

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Cut, but make the hurt be felt by everyone. No more DoEd and student loans. But also do away with tax incentives for developers. No more social security, but do it with higher capital gains. Don't just cut on the backs of the elderly and low income. Fed pensions. Ah subsidies and tax benefits. All of it, if we are going to do it the whole thing should be on the table, not just cherry picking what doesn't impact the well off.

FLBear5630 said:

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Whiskey Pete said:

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Quote:

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And punting on commitments is just as sure a path to destruction.

I have an idea let's half Fed pensions, raise taxes on investments and make developers pay for infrastructure. How about that? We can knock this out in five years, you guys can handle it better than the teacher making 50k ...

---

If we cut the size of gov't and fed pensions, we don't need to raise taxes on investments.

---

Just as long as the cuts impact those making them too. The Right has a tendency to want to cut things they don't use or need. Just like Left wants to spend on programs. Right just as bad. We ALL need to embrace the suck. Not just the elderly, those that need economic aid and poor. The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

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Here, I'll really "show it". Consumption tax.

FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The Agencies you say we don't need are usually focussed on poor. Let's see how investment tax on your investment fly. You just showed it, you said if we cut Fed employees and other we don't need to touch your investments. Typical.

---

Charity is not the proper role of the government. It is the role of the church and the people. By taxing people and running that money through the hands of federal bureaucracies, you end up inserting a very expensive middle man into the equation and the more people who feed at that trough, the less the recipients of charity get.

---

….and the more often it goes to people who don't need or deserve it, such as bureaucrats.

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Cut, but make the hurt be felt by everyone. No more DoEd and student loans. But also do away with tax incentives for developers. No more social security, but do it with higher capital gains. Don't just cut on the backs of the elderly and low income. Fed pensions. Ah subsidies and tax benefits. All of it, if we are going to do it the whole thing should be on the table, not just cherry picking what doesn't impact the well off.

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Heck yeah, now you're talking! We need to do away with tax incentive for everyone and every business, not just developers.

End corporate welfare. Stop funding NPR, NEA, Planned Parenthood and other BS (list is too long for me to type)

Don't need to tax investment incomes at a higher rate, we need to replace income tax with a consumption tax. The more you consume, the more you pay.

Also, charities and churches should be required to pay taxes (and property taxes too).

Government needs to get out of the business of making loans.

Hell, I bet we could cut the size of big government (by a minimum) of 1/3 and no one would even notice.

"no one would even notice."

Oh yes there would be notice. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says 23.36 million people work in government.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t17.htm

Cut the government by a third and almost eight million people lose their jobs, and since they are government employees I doubt most of them would easily find productive work in real jobs.

SCOOP: For his events, President Biden's staffers prepare a short document with large print and photos that include his precise path to a podium, according to an event template the White House sends to staffers. https://t.co/Zw5252NmHH

— Axios (@axios) July 7, 2024

BIDEN: “Even when I was running for Senate, each time I ran, quite frankly, not a joke, Philadelphia, in particular, got me across the line”

Joe was a Senator from DELAWARE. Not Pennsylvania.
pic.twitter.com/CSwA7DC7iq

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) July 7, 2024

This guy is a ****in embarassment.

I hope they don't replace him with a real candidate.... Trump will demolish him in a landslide victory... unless they steal it again.