2024

441,452 Views | 8512 Replies | Last: 32 min ago by boognish_bear
historian
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whiterock said:

Here's what a six point lead looks like on Election Day



Add those toss up states to the Trump column & flip NJ and maybe a couple other blue states to see an even more epic spanking by the public of the fascists. Such gains are not outside the realm of possibility.

I don't seriously expect Trump to flip any more blue states than the ones on the map & maybe NJ. Then again, who expected Minnesota to be in play?
historian
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FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

A statesman makes wise decisions. Bringing in outsiders with stale, old ideas is not wise. Maintaining bloated, inefficient, cumbersome, & often tyrannical bureaucracies is not wise. Trump has already promised to dismantle the DoE. Those who believe in limited & more efficient govt have been wanting this literally for 40 years. This includes plenty of Libertarians. It's a bureaucracy that has not accomplished one useful thing I can think of in its entire existence but has caused a whole lot of damage and become a tool of evil. It's fair to blame much of the current dismal state of American education on the DoE and the ideology that props it up.
BS.

DoE is an Agency, that is all. It is not inherently good, bad or indifferent. Leadership sets the direction, the Agency accomplishes.

Doing away with the mechanism to have standardized education at the public school level is not the answer. Especially when our competition IS controlling their Education. We need MORE STEM and MORE educated work force, not 50 different views of what that should be.
You have it exactly backwards here. What part of "standardized Education" has been worth the nickel at the federal level?

Good leadership, built on sound concepts and then carried out is what Agencies should do. If people don't want to follow, get rid of them. But doing away with whole Agency as a whole for a nation of 365M and the size of the US is not accomplishing anything. Neither is going back to 1870 US structure. This is the lazy man's way of solving these issues. We need a Dept of Interior, to manage resources. We need a Dept of Education, especially in the technology based world we live in.
Good leadeship knows how to delegate.

Manchin knows the Natural Resource situation better than anyone. Semena knows Ed. IF they are not willing to work with Trump, than don't appoint. But they are two that could bridge the gap.
Kill the DOE, send the money to the states in block grants.

Better yet, le the people keep their money and have more control over their schools.
That doesn't help a National Strategy. Kill the CIA and let DIA and the other 50 or so Intel Agencies do it. CIA is more trouble than it is worth, it gets the US in all sorts of problems. You can fund a hell of an Education program with that budget. ****, we can do this all day. What else??? Maybe get rid of Defense, go to a Japanese level Home Defense Force, no more money issues...


How has that national education strategy worked out for us?

To paraphrase Thomas Sowell…. You are advocating continuing to do something that sounds good instead of something that works.




You keep applying past failures to the future. Every coup you attempted that failed prevent the CIA from trying another? Just because something failed in a 20th Century environment doesn't mean it is not worth doing in the 21st. Environments change. There was no way 10 years ago that we thought we would need the technology based workforce we need now. You are not going to get it by random and the wealthy that are sending their kids to good schools are not going to do the dirty work. The dirty work of the future will be tech driven. Even infantry will need tech skills.

Stop defending broken institutions!! Every frickin' cycle educated idiots make the same case, get billions of dollars of funding, then go on to 'ef it up even more. The DOE has dispensed trillions of dollars on public education and metrics show straight line declines. Inner city schools are smoking hulks of incompetence, and in the suburbs kids don't even know how to properly use pronouns.

Block grant the money to states. Let them compete to see who can do best. Remember all the Reaganesque admonitions about one-size fits all solutions?

We've already fixed education until it's broke.
Stop.
Start over.

"National Strategy" has been an unmitigated disaster.


And nobody can do better. Losers attitude.


Supporting a failed federal bureaucracy is the ultimate losers attitude. And most of them are failures to some degree or another. Education is one of the worst.
whiterock
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historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!

for the most part, we only hear about CIA's failures. Successes typically go unheralded.

CIA is the closest thing there is a meritocracy in the USG.

CIA protections for Amcits was bright line that was in my day strictly respected. Too much so. Good, obvious things were usually not done if it involved Amcits. I had dinner one night with a target who ran a business owned by a famous terrorist (and the word "famous" understates it). Target was ripe for recruitment. Hqs said no. Target's spouse was an American citizen, which in the eyes of the law made the target a "US Person." And CIA reflexively treats "US Persons" as US CItizens. Today, that guy is in a federal prison for involvement in an terrorist attack against US facilities. I still get frustrated when I think about it. Bad call by the lawyers. I (and my junior officer) was right where we were supposed to be, doing what we were supposed to do. We had an opportunity to penetrate a notable terror group. (again, "notable" understates it). But, at that moment in time, lawyers were more concerned about not getting involved in the sticky business of dealing with AMCITS. Thus an opportunity to stop an attack was missed. And not just that attack, but a whole bunch of other ones that changed history. (Target has a WIKI page 3 screens long....)

I'd be very skeptical of the nonsense we see about CIA operations in the USA to influence things, collect on things against citizens. The ONLY charter CIA has to collect in USA is against foreign targets who are traveling to/thru USA, or to seek voluntary debriefings from US citizens (almost always business execs) who travel to denied areas like USSR, NoKo, China, etc....who might have met with targets of interest. Note that in the Russia Hoax, FBI was wanting to go after Carter Page and sent an email to CIA to see if he was cooperating with CIA. CIA responded yes he was. He would go to Russia, then have dinner and a debrief, all voluntarily. But the FBI officer involved doctored the email to say the opposite and then used that doctored email as the basis to launch an investigation of Page. That FBI officer is the ONLY person who got prison time for the Russia Hoax. That is an outrage, given how extensively FBI ran amok in the Russia Hoax. But the affair does give a window inside the closed world of intelligence. The proper protections are in place. We just don't always hold the proper people accountable. And CIA came out smelling like a rose on that one.

The problem CIA has is all its former directors using their resumes to build credibility for partisan political attacks. Every one of those retired directors/officers should lose their security clearances and be investigated like Trump was for how they might have misused their clearances. The need in that regard is to re-establish the firewall between intelligence and domestic politics. If they want to get involved in politics, fine. But leave their CIA credentials at the door. Their actions did great harm to the agency, inviting public skepticism of the agency, leading to loss of credibility with the American People.

At some point, we are going to have to crush some bureaucrats to re-instill their respect for firewalls.

Jack Bauer
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The memo is out - just lie until you believe it.


FLBear5630
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historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
Oldbear83
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The repair/reform needed is going to take some time.

Stage 1 means punishing abuse of power by agency heads, like Lerner's weaponization of the IRS under Obama or Mayorkis' deliberate open border under Biden. Trump can accomplish this in his second term provided the GOP is on board;

Stage 2 is a strict diet for federal agencies, something like scaling all agencies budgets back to 2002 levels adjusted for inflation. This will again take cooperation with Congress, and there will be a lot of resentment among the career mandarins.

Stage 3 is decentralization, moving department headquarters out of D.C. and spreading them around to new locations. This can work if the various major departments are evenly distributed, say put DHS in Texas, Labor in Michigan, Defense in California and State in North Carolina, just as possible new homes.

It would take about 20 years to really get done, especially since backbones in Congress are scarcer than politicians who have held real jobs outside their elected roles..
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
boognish_bear
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Oldbear83 said:

The repair/reform needed is going to take some time.

Stage 1 means punishing abuse of power by agency heads, like Lerner's weaponization of the IRS under Obama or Mayorkis' deliberate open border under Biden. Trump can accomplish this in his second term provided the GOP is on board;

Stage 2 is a strict diet for federal agencies, something like scaling all agencies budgets back to 2002 levels adjusted for inflation. This will again take cooperation with Congress, and there will be a lot of resentment among the career mandarins.

Stage 3 is decentralization, moving department headquarters out of D.C. and spreading them around to new locations. This can work if the various major departments are evenly distributed, say put DHS in Texas, Labor in Michigan, Defense in California and State in North Carolina, just as possible new homes.

It would take about 20 years to really get done, especially since backbones in Congress are scarcer than politicians who have held real jobs outside their elected roles..


I think those things are covered under the 900 page Project 25
historian
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Some good points here
historian
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Oldbear83 said:

The repair/reform needed is going to take some time.

Stage 1 means punishing abuse of power by agency heads, like Lerner's weaponization of the IRS under Obama or Mayorkis' deliberate open border under Biden. Trump can accomplish this in his second term provided the GOP is on board;

Stage 2 is a strict diet for federal agencies, something like scaling all agencies budgets back to 2002 levels adjusted for inflation. This will again take cooperation with Congress, and there will be a lot of resentment among the career mandarins.

Stage 3 is decentralization, moving department headquarters out of D.C. and spreading them around to new locations. This can work if the various major departments are evenly distributed, say put DHS in Texas, Labor in Michigan, Defense in California and State in North Carolina, just as possible new homes.

It would take about 20 years to really get done, especially since backbones in Congress are scarcer than politicians who have held real jobs outside their elected roles..

Excellent ideas. It's difficult to be optimistic about any real change in Washington because Congress must pass the legislation and they generally are averse to real change because it threatens their power, at least for enough key members.
4th and Inches
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Jack Bauer said:

The memo is out - just lie until you believe it.



Team Biden won this round..

Not sure the coup is over but the Dem Zoom convention is in like 30-40 days
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boognish_bear
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NEW YORK (AP) The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a "second American Revolution" that will be bloodless "if the left allows it to be."

Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts made the comments Tuesday on Steve Bannon's "War Room" podcast, adding that Republicans are "in the process of taking this country back."

Democrats are "apoplectic right now" because the right is winning, Roberts told former U.S. Rep. Dave Brat, one of the podcast's guest hosts as Bannon is serving a four-month prison term. "And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."

Roberts' remarks shed light on how a group that promises to have significant influence over a possible second term for former President Donald Trump is thinking about this moment in American politics. The Heritage Foundation is spearheading Project 2025, a sweeping road map for a new GOP administration that includes plans for dismantling aspects of the federal government and ousting thousands of civil servants in favor of Trump loyalists who will carry out a hard-right agenda without complaint.
whiterock
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FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
whiterock
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boognish_bear said:



NEW YORK (AP) The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a "second American Revolution" that will be bloodless "if the left allows it to be."

Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts made the comments Tuesday on Steve Bannon's "War Room" podcast, adding that Republicans are "in the process of taking this country back."

Democrats are "apoplectic right now" because the right is winning, Roberts told former U.S. Rep. Dave Brat, one of the podcast's guest hosts as Bannon is serving a four-month prison term. "And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."

Roberts' remarks shed light on how a group that promises to have significant influence over a possible second term for former President Donald Trump is thinking about this moment in American politics. The Heritage Foundation is spearheading Project 2025, a sweeping road map for a new GOP administration that includes plans for dismantling aspects of the federal government and ousting thousands of civil servants in favor of Trump loyalists who will carry out a hard-right agenda without complaint.
Roberts is spot on, echoing comments I've made here for some time. Democrats and Republicans no longer agree on the definition of common good. One side is going to have to win, and the other is going to have to lose.
FLBear5630
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whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
4th and Inches
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boognish_bear said:


wouldnt be a holiday without a Trump rant.. Happy 4th everybody!
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FLBear5630
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whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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boognish_bear said:


What is the plan?
Osodecentx
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boognish_bear said:




What is the plan?
boognish_bear
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I've seen no details. This Twitter account is obviously against Trump so take it with a grain of salt.

boognish_bear
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historian
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NM
Aliceinbubbleland
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whiterock said:


Roberts is spot on, echoing comments I've made here for some time. Democrats and Republicans no longer agree on the definition of common good. One side is going to have to win, and the other is going to have to lose.
Trump didn't do jack s h i t during his first term. He wasted two years of Congressional control and got absolutely nothing done, other than spend like drunken sailors, but divide us further.
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.


And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.


And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.
Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.


And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.
Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.


It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.


And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.
Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.


It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.
That in bold plus defense of sunk costs is the accelerant fuel for the 40 year trainwreck that is the DOEd.
New idea that will fix it! It needs more money (thereby subsidizing failure so it can go on a fail some more.)

Stop. Start over.

Let the Dept of Commerce administer the student loan program with goal oriented focus: What are needs of the economy? What are needs of National Defense? What kind of graduates do we need. Allocate school loans by degree based on needs for JOBS. They can also run school loan packages like investments, putting more investment based criteria on the loans - how much money does it cost to get degree X vs what are income projections for that degree in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

DOD take over the same aimed at National Security needs.
DHS could handle law enforcement needs.

and so on.

Education professionals have had their chance to show us what they can do.
They screwed the pooch
FLBear5630
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whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

It's easy to make asinine comparisons. Education is not mentioned in the constitution and arguable is not a federal responsibility. Defense is mentioned and is one of the primary functions of a national government. Intelligence, too often a misnomer, is clearly part of the function of national defense.

The CIA has been abused far too much for far too long. It needs to be reigned in and significantly reformed. FBI too along with any agency corrupted by Obama & Biden (actually it hours back to the Cljnton's). No intelligence agency should be spying on Americans, especially presidential candidates, or creating fake scandals to use against candidates. Those in the agency & elsewhere involved in trying to rig elections should be prosecuted and punished adversely. There's a list of 51 of them involved in a single act of fraud & election tampering.

I know you must be smarter than that!



We have a hell of a fight coming and decentralizing when fighting a centralized Nation. Is dangerous. Just look at AI, we are allowing what would normally be monopolies to exist because you can't build AI fragmented. You guys are putting your heads in the sand. DEd can serve a purpose and help. I agreed it needs to be gutted and requires leadership, but State leadership on educating a work force won't cut it.
federal leadership isn't cutting it either.

states compete on many, many things to attract business....taxes, regulations, home costs, etc..... An educated workforce is part of that. when we give states the freedom to reform their education system, many will find things, pieces of solutions, that work. Other states will be forced to adopt to remain competitive. THings that don't matter, like DEI and all the gender nonsense, will get quickly tossed. Federal leadership undoes all that.

Letting the states have a go at it cannot possibly be worse than what we have now.
I AGREE. Fed leadership has sucked since Bush Sr left. Trump was best because he set a direction that was pro-US. We need new good leadership. Professionals, not donors like DeFries or Bannon
none of our Founding Fathers were experts in governance. They were shade-tree philosophers who understood the meanings & natures of things.

Experts got us into this problem.
Experts have kept us in this problem.
We should be very careful about entrusting experts.

That is a theme which runs throughout a lot of issues. So called "experts" who are really nothing more than ideological shills. Remember that guy who launched Obama with his first fundraiser - Bill Ayers? After he quit making pipe bombs, he became......an education expert.

the left has completed Gramsci's "long march thru institutions." Tweaking won't restore them to former glory. There's going to have to be a fair amount of demolition.

I'd trust Bannon more than than pretty much anyone with a PhD in education.
I would make 2 points there. First, it showed. They tried to do what you prescribe States have the power, it was a disaster. The only way to manage 13 States and a population of 2.7 million was a strong central Government. Lincoln re-established it. And that was in 1783 where a rifled weapon was cutting edge.
Self-undermining argument. We have come a long way since we were 13 states & 2.7m people. And a very, very, VERY big percentage of it occurred before the Dept Of Ed. was established in 1980. We won two world wars, sent astronauts to the moon, would have won the Cold War, and so much more.......WITHOUT a federal Dept. Of Education. It would be far easier to make the case that our education woes BEGAN with the establishment of a Federal Dept of Education.....precisely because the very benefit you cite (effective propagation of curricula) propagates the BAD ideas as rapidly as the good ones.

Point 2, Besides the size, we are in an age that requires interoperability. That is best done with a strong central government and leadership. China is beating us in many of the tech areas because they can make a decision and go. We are seeing it in the transportation industry, AI and space. The private is great at responding to needs, but the Govt has to set those needs for the Nation. Centralized standards and specs make that happen. The key is the right leadership, we need more Leslie Groves and less Buttegeigs.
China is not kicking our ass in education. They are not innovators. They stole most of the technology they have and cannot easily reproduce it. The J20 LOOKS a lot like the F22, but the F22 it ain't. China cannot make the highest quality microchips. They specialize in the low quality chips, like the ones in your microwave and washing machine and coffee pot. It's not nothing, but it's a long way from what we can do. Yes, they are on a war-time footing and are focused like a laser on what they want to do, but they are not ahead of us in much. (and to the extent they are, does that not ratify the critiques I've been making about the DOEd?)
When you step into a mess, you cannot tweak the single digit percentage things. You cannot shape the margins and transform outcomes. You have to make significant impact on the biggest numbers, the biggest operations. EX: the first thing that happens when the war ends is.....you demobilize your army, send most of the troops home to civilian life. That's because the biggest number is payroll. You can't save much as much total dollars tweaking stuff in a 2m million man army. You have to downsize to a 1m man army if you are gonna save enough to matter.

DOE should be shuttered. Everything we do on ed. should be restructured. All grade school money should be sent to the states in block grant. I GUARANTEE you Ron DeSantis will do a fine job with it. The federal needs like student loan funding should be drastically overhauled, and administered by states. If you want to put federal quotas on various degree plans, fine. Whatever it takes to quit loaning taxpayer money to pay for "Gender Studies" classes. If students want to take them, let them pay for them with their own money. Those types of curricula would drastically contract (to the benefit of everyone involved) back to the ideological hidey-holes where they belong.

This progressive nonsense that has the country floundering in chaos is mostly running on axpayer money.
THAT HAS TO STOP.
(and that's why they're so afraid of Trump. They afraid he'll actually do it. I'm a little less convinced he will swing the axe widely enough. Suspect RDS would do a more thoroughgoing job of it. But Trump will be a stap in the right direction. We have several Republican Governors who will totally outclass the DOE as it sits, so my proposal has far more to commend it than you allow.)

The beating heart of the progressive cultural revolution is the college campus, using public monies.
That is where we strike. FIRST. Cut off the money to the left. Make it flow to common good. LIke STEM. Ruthlessly root out progressive ideology by defunding it.

You don't have to be an education expert to see the problem. It's almost the opposite. The Experts ARE the problem.


And where did I disagree with any of your proposed changes? I said you don't scrap Agencies and mechanisms in place because it was run poorly. Get new leadership and set the mission. We need a DoE, we definitely need a well run DoE. Put Huckabee on charge. All the infrastructure is a in place, don't scrap over idiots in charge.
Why do we need a DOEd?
What did we NOT accomplish prior to 1980 (due to a lack of DOEd) that diminished our standing in the world?
What successes in public education since 1980 can we cite to justify the premise that we must have a DOEd?

Perhaps we should have a federal education entity. But if we cannot in make a compelling argument in 30 words or less..........

What EXACTLY did the DOEd do for us in the last 40 years that we can say "boy, without that level of excellence led by DOEd, we would not have been able to have done (x)?"

Just three things. Gimme three things.


It is not what it has done, it is what it can do. Stop living in the past making judgements about value by past incompetencies. Look at tech coming, we need a change in education if we are going to go to Mars, master AI, and keep ahead of China. It is not going to be you and me, it will be the public school system that produces the bulk of the workforce. DoE can direct that curriculum better than 50 States. The States can implement, but the incentives, curriculum and finance can be DoE driven. Look at what we need, not at what f-ups have done. We need restructuring to manage and attain innovation at a national scale.
That in bold plus defense of sunk costs is the accelerant fuel for the 40 year trainwreck that is the DOEd.
New idea that will fix it! It needs more money (thereby subsidizing failure so it can go on a fail some more.)

Stop. Start over.

Let the Dept of Commerce administer the student loan program with goal oriented focus: What are needs of the economy? What are needs of National Defense? What kind of graduates do we need. Allocate school loans by degree based on needs for JOBS. They can also run school loan packages like investments, putting more investment based criteria on the loans - how much money does it cost to get degree X vs what are income projections for that degree in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

DOD take over the same aimed at National Security needs.
DHS could handle law enforcement needs.

and so on.

Education professionals have had their chance to show us what they can do.
They screwed the pooch


I can go with all of that. That is different than just scrap it to reduce Govt. A smaller Govt is not necessarily a better Govt.

I like Commerce and SL. I like tying SL to military and tech needs, with pay back on other side. I am all for business internships through businesses to train.

I don't need a big or small Govt, I need an effective Govt. Denmark and Singapore tax alot but deliver quality. I am good. Others are low tax and allow access. I am good. I want functional effectiveness.
boognish_bear
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Interesting that Trump is trying to distance from Project 25.

boognish_bear
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Realitybites
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Wisconsin Supreme Court Reinstates Unstaffed Drop Boxes

"Friday, Jul 05, 2024 - 12:45 PM

Well, well, well - the Wisconsin Supreme Court, with its liberal majority, issued a ruling on Friday that reinstates the use of unstaffed drop boxes ahead of the 2024 election.

In a 4-3 decision that reverses their own 2022 prohibition on unmanned dropboxes, the justices agreed with Democrats who argued that the Wisconsin Supreme Court had previously misinterpreted the law in its 2022 ruling, and wrongly concluded that absentee ballots can only be returned to a clerk in their office, and not to a drop box that is located elsewhere."

You didn't think the ruling junta was going to seize power in 2020 only to surrender it because of an election, did you?
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