2024

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boognish_bear
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11:43a, 8/23/24
The only thing on these boards more controversial than politics… Baylor football
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Adriacus Peratuun • 11:46a, 8/23/24
Adriacus Peratuun said:
FLBear5630 said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
ATL Bear said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
ATL Bear said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
ATL Bear said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
Voice of Reality:

The colonial citizens are patriotic revolutionaries because they defeated Britain.
The Southerners are traitors because they lost to the North.

It is that simple. Reasons, initiating incidents, etc. do not matter.
Only outcome determines how the victors and losers are categorized.
The Khmer Rouge were patriots fighting for their cause against imperialists. The Bolsheviks were patriotic Russians breaking the grip of monarchy.

Don't think it's that simple. Cause and purpose does matter.
The Khmer Rouge were "patriots" until the Vietnamese destroyed them.
It is "that simple". Winners dictate categorization.
When they were winners they dictated status. When they lost they didn't.

The Bolsheviks were patriots for decades until the economic pressure of the West caused the Soviet state to implode. As they left power they stopped being patriots.
When they were winners they dictated status. As subsequent losers they didn't.

Your examples do not support but rather undermine your point.

And it works both ways. Iran's democracy advocates were patriots for a few months until Khomeini and the Islamic fundamentalists destroyed them. Russian democracy advocates were patriots until Putin, the other Former KGB agents, and the sympathetic oligarchs destroyed them.

The French Revolution…..the Nazis…..,Peronistas……the list goes on and on. Everyone is a patriot until they lose power. They then join the ever growing list of state enemies.
That makes absolutely no sense. It would be like me taking your examples and saying the British were the patriots until the colonialists won (they fought the French and Indian War for the colonies), or the Union and not the Confederacy were traitors, until they weren't.

We can still view Iranian democracy advocates as the right cause over the Islamist tyranny that is still in place today regardless of their success. Again, cause and purpose DO matter and victory does NOT always determine how one is viewed historically. In fact history is full of victors whose triumph was a scourge on the people and regions of the world.
You are boasting morality. I am talking label application. The victor gets to apply the labels.

"We" aren't applying labels in Iran. We can judge from afar but I guarantee you that all labeling within Iran is done by their leadership.
You seem to be confusing propaganda with history.
And you seem to forget that people disagreeing with you doesn't rob them of having a perspective.

You are equating your perceived correctness with what you assume to be their lack of viewpoint existence.
Even stipulating that you are right on every single value judgment [no one is], that doesn't eliminate the viewpoints of other people. Right or wrong, they have opinions and assign labels.

Humankind is not required to line up in the shadow of your opinions. They are allowed to think for themselves.
And generally the victors in every scenario assume the correctness of their personal viewpoints.

There might be a moral center to the universe.
I am certain that neither you nor anyone else occupies that space.
But even if you did, that doesn't negate everyone else.


Ha! You sure like telling people what to do...
Typical.

Can't reason your way out of a paper bag on a rainy day so the personal attacks begin.
Read your responses in the last 24 hours and start counting.

Typical, can throw out rulings and tell everyone else what to do but call him on it and he calls it personal. You sure you are not a Dem?
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sombear
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:25p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
Looks like Trump has found a new appreciation for Kemp

He had key staffers threatening to resign and his own family screaming at him after the debacle speech in GA. It took Trump a couple weeks to swallow his pride, but he did it.
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boognish_bear
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12:27p, 8/23/24
Plot twist?

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boognish_bear
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12:34p, 8/23/24
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boognish_bear
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:38p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
I'm suspecting he's going to launch some kind of TrumpCoin or MAGACoin or something.



Yep

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sombear
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:42p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
Is that real?
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KaiBear
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:43p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
Plot twist?

Clever gal.

Need to read up on her.
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boognish_bear
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In reply to sombear • 1:01p, 8/23/24
sombear said:
boognish_bear said:
Is that real?


Yep
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boognish_bear
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1:05p, 8/23/24
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1:24p, 8/23/24
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to boognish_bear • 3:49p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
KaiBear said:
boognish_bear said:


Love Trump or hate him.

Wall's certainly work.

Dems have proved it in DC over and over again.


It's just the way he is and always has been....but I wish he would say something like "the walls we built" instead of "the walls I built."
Remember Clinton's famous line from Wednesday night? "Don't count the lies, count the I's."
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historian
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In reply to Jack Bauer • 3:49p, 8/23/24
The people making such idiotic arguments are usually the greatest racists or bigots. They are also evil because they often want to use violence to enforce their ideas. They are much like the KKK or other extremism groups.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to sombear • 3:50p, 8/23/24
sombear said:
boognish_bear said:
Looks like Trump has found a new appreciation for Kemp

He had key staffers threatening to resign and his own family screaming at him after the debacle speech in GA. It took Trump a couple weeks to swallow his pride, but he did it.
Too late most likely.
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whitetrash
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In reply to Aliceinbubbleland • 4:00p, 8/23/24
Aliceinbubbleland said:
boognish_bear said:
KaiBear said:
boognish_bear said:


Love Trump or hate him.

Wall's certainly work.

Dems have proved it in DC over and over again.


It's just the way he is and always has been....but I wish he would say something like "the walls we built" instead of "the walls I built."
Remember Clinton's famous line from Wednesday night? "Don't count the lies, count the I's."
With Clinton, it's the "is" that matters, not necessarily the "I's"
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4th and Inches
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4:01p, 8/23/24
That speech by RFK was a scathing indictment of the Democratic Party

He would have won the primary and probably the election without their interference
Adopt-a-Bear 2024

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#50 KAIAN ROBERTS-DAY ( DL )
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historian
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In reply to whitetrash • 4:03p, 8/23/24
… depending on what "is" means
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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4th and Inches
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4:09p, 8/23/24
Adopt-a-Bear 2024

#90 COOPER LANZ ( DL )
CLASS Junior
HT/WT 6' 3", 288 lbs


#50 KAIAN ROBERTS-DAY ( DL )
CLASS Sophomore
HT/WT 6' 3", 273 lbs
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sombear
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In reply to Aliceinbubbleland • 4:11p, 8/23/24
Aliceinbubbleland said:
sombear said:
boognish_bear said:
Looks like Trump has found a new appreciation for Kemp

He had key staffers threatening to resign and his own family screaming at him after the debacle speech in GA. It took Trump a couple weeks to swallow his pride, but he did it.
Too late most likely.
Nah, this race is a coin flip. Harris with a lead after a honeymoon period and DNC. Anything can happen. Trump will take the lead again at some point I expect. Then it's truly up to him and whether he can stay on message.
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to 4th and Inches • 4:11p, 8/23/24
Delusional poll.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 4:18p, 8/23/24
Oldbear83 said:
Seems to me that the recent arguments viz a viz the American Civil War establish, more than anything else, that the Secession issue was never really resolved. Yes, the US Supreme Court has ruled that secession is not constitutional, but that decision depends on future courts not changing their opinion. While likely for political reasons, the logic is circular and will not convince any doubters.

[It is indisputable that these United States were born out of revolution. One major difference is the South contended in 1860 that it was leaving a voluntary union, whereas the Original thirteen colonies left an involuntary union known as the British empire. As Davis said: "Our situation illustrates the American idea that governments rest on the consent of the governed, and that is there is the right of the people to alter or abolish them whenever they become destructive to the ends for which they are established." Planting a seed for the legitimacy of voluntary government, he said: "A section settled by violence, or in disregard of the law, must remain unsettled forever."]

"Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can."-Samuel Adams

"This Constitution does not attempt to coerce sovereign bodies, States, in their political capacity. No coercion is applicable to such bodies, but that of an armed force." -Oliver Ellsworth
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Oldbear83
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In reply to Aliceinbubbleland • 5:38p, 8/23/24
Aliceinbubbleland said:
Delusional poll.
Looks like they are playing the same game Nate Silver and the NY Times did in 2016, posting a '% chance to win' rather than linking actual poll results.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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boognish_bear
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6:08p, 8/23/24
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6:08p, 8/23/24
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Bestweekeverr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 6:16p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:


His advisors must have told him how far behind he is in the polling from women
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boognish_bear
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6:22p, 8/23/24
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boognish_bear
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6:24p, 8/23/24
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Oldbear83
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In reply to boognish_bear • 6:27p, 8/23/24
53.8 cheering for the Democrat. In other news, rain is wet and Summer is warmer than Winter in most American cities.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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boognish_bear
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7:31p, 8/23/24
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4th and Inches
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In reply to boognish_bear • 7:36p, 8/23/24
boognish_bear said:
538 is soo bad.. at least RCP tries

Look up their polling average in 16 and 20.. about 5 points off toward Dems each time
Adopt-a-Bear 2024

#90 COOPER LANZ ( DL )
CLASS Junior
HT/WT 6' 3", 288 lbs


#50 KAIAN ROBERTS-DAY ( DL )
CLASS Sophomore
HT/WT 6' 3", 273 lbs
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boognish_bear
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7:46p, 8/23/24
Politics makes strange bedfellows?

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BUDOS
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In reply to J.R. • 8:31p, 8/23/24
JR, there is a world in a world where truth doesn't matter, but it still hurts. Refusing to believe the truth doesn't make it a lie. (Stay conservative, hopefully things will improve by the next election.)
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KaiBear
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In reply to 4th and Inches • 8:39p, 8/23/24
4th and Inches said:
That speech by RFK was a scathing indictment of the Democratic Party

He would have won the primary and probably the election without their interference


Doubt RFK would have won the primary against an incumbent.

Even with the best name in national politics.

But he was totally correct in his assessment of the Democrat Party primary system.

It was a total sham.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 8:41p, 8/23/24
Redbrickbear said:
Oldbear83 said:
Seems to me that the recent arguments viz a viz the American Civil War establish, more than anything else, that the Secession issue was never really resolved. Yes, the US Supreme Court has ruled that secession is not constitutional, but that decision depends on future courts not changing their opinion. While likely for political reasons, the logic is circular and will not convince any doubters.

[It is indisputable that these United States were born out of revolution. One major difference is the South contended in 1860 that it was leaving a voluntary union, whereas the Original thirteen colonies left an involuntary union known as the British empire. As Davis said: "Our situation illustrates the American idea that governments rest on the consent of the governed, and that is there is the right of the people to alter or abolish them whenever they become destructive to the ends for which they are established." Planting a seed for the legitimacy of voluntary government, he said: "A section settled by violence, or in disregard of the law, must remain unsettled forever."]

"Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can."-Samuel Adams

"This Constitution does not attempt to coerce sovereign bodies, States, in their political capacity. No coercion is applicable to such bodies, but that of an armed force." -Oliver Ellsworth


There is no coercion, but once in, the only way out is through Congress. It has to be mutual. Joining the Union makes a territory part of the whole.

Can Courts rule different, yes. When they do, I will agree with you. We have to stay within the system and the process. Once we start not respecting the institutions, the Nation falls apart.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to KaiBear • 8:42p, 8/23/24
KaiBear said:
4th and Inches said:
That speech by RFK was a scathing indictment of the Democratic Party

He would have won the primary and probably the election without their interference


Doubt RFK would have won the primary against an incumbent.

Even with the best name in national politics.

But he was totally correct in his assessment of the Democrat Party primary system.

It was a total sham.
I don't think RFK would have won the Democrats' nomination, but in a fair race he would ironically have vetted their nominee and the Democrats would likely have produced a more credible nominee then Harris.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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