boognish_bear said:

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A protestor came to my event in Iowa last night. I gave her the mic. And then something surprising happened. pic.twitter.com/rKM1FPYPjS

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 23, 2023

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whether you agree or disagree, it's a thoughtful response. One might even say presidential.

Merry Christmas!

I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

4th and Inches said:

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I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

boognish_bear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

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wouldnt know, dont plan in voting for him

Just unbelievable that this criminal will be the Rep. nominee. Is this all the R's got? Just pathetic.

J.R. said:

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Just unbelievable that this criminal will be the Rep. nominee. Is this all the R's got? Just pathetic.

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Looking at what is available from the Democrats, you really have no place to talk.

J.R. said:

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Just unbelievable that this criminal will be the Rep. nominee. Is this all the R's got? Just pathetic.

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What about Joe "the big guy" selling his brand to foreign countries

Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

Oldbear83 said:

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J.R. said:

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Just unbelievable that this criminal will be the Rep. nominee. Is this all the R's got? Just pathetic.

---

Looking at what is available from the Democrats, you really have no place to talk.

---

As I've said......there are few groups of talented people more out of their depth in politics than the wealthy conservative business class. There are exceptions, of course, but as a rule, the skillsets and worldview they draw upon for success in business are in many important ways divergent, if not diametrically opposite to what is needed to be effective in politics.

boognish_bear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

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At least he didn't speak the name of Jesus

The lunatic doesn't have the slightest clue how tired people are of his childish kind of 'leadership'.

And some posters still insist that independents, women, and young people are going to put Trump in the White House in 2024.

Incredible.

Osodecentx said:

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boognish_bear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

---

At least he didn't speak the name of Jesus

---

I was hoping for a little TWO Corinthians at a minimum! What a horrible human being. Oh, and for some of you Trumpers up in this thread, Biden is no better. Can we not do better? DeSantis just doesn't have it. He's done. Give me some Haley.

J.R. said:

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Osodecentx said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

---

At least he didn't speak the name of Jesus

---

I was hoping for a little TWO Corinthians at a minimum! What a horrible human being. Oh, and for some of you Trumpers up in this thread, Biden is no better. Can we not do better? DeSantis just doesn't have it. He's done. Give me some Haley.

---

If Haley can win New Hampshire she might just create a Republican Dump Trump tidal wave .

Just got to believe the majority of Republicans are looking for a reason to finally get rid of his sickening persona.

J.R. said:

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Osodecentx said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

---

At least he didn't speak the name of Jesus

---

I was hoping for a little TWO Corinthians at a minimum! What a horrible human being. Oh, and for some of you Trumpers up in this thread, Biden is no better. Can we not do better? DeSantis just doesn't have it. He's done. Give me some Haley.

---

I think Trump v Biden captures the decay of the USA. Whose fault is that?

Along with men pretending to be women, "elite" universities, rise of single parent homes, urban decay, inability to protect our border, $33 trillion debt,

Osodecentx said:

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J.R. said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

I guess you're one of the 17 people that signed up for that platform because nobody else ever sees those but you until you post them here

---

Where else can you get messages directly from the GOP front runner?

---

At least he didn't speak the name of Jesus

---

I was hoping for a little TWO Corinthians at a minimum! What a horrible human being. Oh, and for some of you Trumpers up in this thread, Biden is no better. Can we not do better? DeSantis just doesn't have it. He's done. Give me some Haley.

---

I think Trump v Biden captures the decay of the USA. Whose fault is that?

---

Began with LBJ and his entitlements, , Bill Clinton cheapened the presidency with low brow immorally and corruption, while Obama infused victim hood into our national consciousness.

Now Biden has opened the floodgates ito an unprecedented invasion of our country and there is absolutely no one with the guts to stop him .

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Go ahead and start without me.

Never Trump/Biden

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Go ahead and start without me.

Never Trump/Biden

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Heil Christie?

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

Ramaswamy campaign ceases TV ads ahead of Iowa, New Hampshire contests https://t.co/ZI0aSdGv11

— Axios (@axios) December 26, 2023

boognish_bear said:

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Ramaswamy campaign ceases TV ads ahead of Iowa, New Hampshire contests https://t.co/ZI0aSdGv11

— Axios (@axios) December 26, 2023

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basically getting down to Haley and Trump.. everyone else is starting to back out

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

---

There is a huge difference between needing a swamp and recognizing what Political systems are and how they operate and trashing the system to "clean it up". If "cleaning up the swamp" is a bi-product of good Governance, no problem. But, if "cleaning out the swamp" becomes the mission in lieu of good, competent Governance that is a problem just as bad as the swamp itself. Like anything else, the swamp serves a purpose and is healthy in moderation. Is it out of control? That is debatable, there are defiently some areas to be cleaned up, but not at the cost of getting the Nation back on the tracks.

We have not had competent Governance in a while, the system cannot take much more. The main mission has to be sound Governance and getting the Nation back on the Tracks. That is why I prefer Haley to Trump. There is too much baggage and revenge driven agenda for this point in US History. We can't have another 4 years of Kindergarten ***** Want to run on an anti-corruption, trust busting, end Tammany Hall platform have at it. Create a swamp-tsar and assign it to the VP, but the President can't be on a vendetta against those that wronged him.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

---

There is a huge difference between needing a swamp and recognizing what Political systems are and how they operate and trashing the system to "clean it up". If "cleaning up the swamp" is a bi-product of good Governance, no problem. But, if "cleaning out the swamp" becomes the mission in lieu of good, competent Governance that is a problem just as bad as the swamp itself. Like anything else, the swamp serves a purpose and is healthy in moderation. Is it out of control? That is debatable, there are defiently some areas to be cleaned up, but not at the cost of getting the Nation back on the tracks.

We have not had competent Governance in a while, the system cannot take much more. The main mission has to be sound Governance and getting the Nation back on the Tracks. That is why I prefer Haley to Trump. There is too much baggage and revenge driven agenda for this point in US History. We can't have another 4 years of Kindergarten ***** Want to run on an anti-corruption, trust busting, end Tammany Hall platform have at it. Create a swamp-tsar and assign it to the VP, but the President can't be on a vendetta against those that wronged him.

---

So you admit we need at some measure of cleaning of the swamp?

Interesting word, vendetta. Democrats are clearly on a vendetta to get Trump, and even the people who are participating in it don't deny it. Yet, somehow, moderate Republicans think the problem is the target of the vendetta. I mean, what the hell is the social justice movement, anyway, if it is not a frickn' vendetta? The double standard you are seeking to enforce is one of the larger parts of the problem. .....

The illegal alien population isn’t the ones shifting our elections because they don’t vote and almost all don’t even try.

It’s legal immigration that was praised by Republican politicians, presidents, and commentators that caused the political shift https://t.co/qhqEVnFH7x

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) December 27, 2023

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

---

There is a huge difference between needing a swamp and recognizing what Political systems are and how they operate and trashing the system to "clean it up". If "cleaning up the swamp" is a bi-product of good Governance, no problem. But, if "cleaning out the swamp" becomes the mission in lieu of good, competent Governance that is a problem just as bad as the swamp itself. Like anything else, the swamp serves a purpose and is healthy in moderation. Is it out of control? That is debatable, there are defiently some areas to be cleaned up, but not at the cost of getting the Nation back on the tracks.

We have not had competent Governance in a while, the system cannot take much more. The main mission has to be sound Governance and getting the Nation back on the Tracks. That is why I prefer Haley to Trump. There is too much baggage and revenge driven agenda for this point in US History. We can't have another 4 years of Kindergarten ***** Want to run on an anti-corruption, trust busting, end Tammany Hall platform have at it. Create a swamp-tsar and assign it to the VP, but the President can't be on a vendetta against those that wronged him.

---

So you admit we need at some measure of cleaning of the swamp?

Interesting word, vendetta. Democrats are clearly on a vendetta to get Trump, and even the people who are participating in it don't deny it. Yet, somehow, moderate Republicans think the problem is the target of the vendetta. I mean, what the hell is the social justice movement, anyway, if it is not a frickn' vendetta? The double standard you are seeking to enforce is one of the larger parts of the problem. .....

---

I don't disagree that the Dems behavior is abhorrent and outright wrong. It still doesn't lessen the impact of a Trump 2...

It is not that I believe that he has bad policies. The problem is that he polarizes to the point of irrational responses and the Country can't take 4 more years of this *****

Yes, there is definitely cleaning up, there always is cleaning up. Well run Administrations do it as part of their job. We have a swamp issues, but it is not the Government employees that the GOP is going after that is the problem. It is the lobbyist. There is too much lobby influence and elected officials becoming multi-millionaires in office. The Private sector lobby is just as much a problem as the careerist in the Government. In my opinion, more so. This is not a new problem.

You are a student of the world situation, now is not the time for the US to go into turmoil. China is right there. Russia has already jumped off the fence to China's side and India is even paying attention.

You clean up when in a position of strength, right now we are too split to get the clean up done. I don't disagree with the need, just the timing. We need to get manufacturing up and defense up or it will be game on...

“You know, the other side does cheat.”

3 weeks before the Iowa Caucus and Trump is already claiming other Republicans are going to commit election fraud…Pathetic. pic.twitter.com/9R2qEAJuOu

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) December 27, 2023

“Some people say I should drop out of this race. Really? I'm the only one saying Donald Trump is a liar…Every Republican leader says that in private. I’m the only one saying it in public.”

Chris Christie responds to calls for him to drop out of the race in a new ad pic.twitter.com/YvBFrEp8iu

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) December 28, 2023

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

---

There is a huge difference between needing a swamp and recognizing what Political systems are and how they operate and trashing the system to "clean it up". If "cleaning up the swamp" is a bi-product of good Governance, no problem. But, if "cleaning out the swamp" becomes the mission in lieu of good, competent Governance that is a problem just as bad as the swamp itself. Like anything else, the swamp serves a purpose and is healthy in moderation. Is it out of control? That is debatable, there are defiently some areas to be cleaned up, but not at the cost of getting the Nation back on the tracks.

We have not had competent Governance in a while, the system cannot take much more. The main mission has to be sound Governance and getting the Nation back on the Tracks. That is why I prefer Haley to Trump. There is too much baggage and revenge driven agenda for this point in US History. We can't have another 4 years of Kindergarten ***** Want to run on an anti-corruption, trust busting, end Tammany Hall platform have at it. Create a swamp-tsar and assign it to the VP, but the President can't be on a vendetta against those that wronged him.

---

So you admit we need at some measure of cleaning of the swamp?

Interesting word, vendetta. Democrats are clearly on a vendetta to get Trump, and even the people who are participating in it don't deny it. Yet, somehow, moderate Republicans think the problem is the target of the vendetta. I mean, what the hell is the social justice movement, anyway, if it is not a frickn' vendetta? The double standard you are seeking to enforce is one of the larger parts of the problem. .....

---

I don't disagree that the Dems behavior is abhorrent and outright wrong. It still doesn't lessen the impact of a Trump 2...

It is not that I believe that he has bad policies. The problem is that he polarizes to the point of irrational responses and the Country can't take 4 more years of this *****

Yes, there is definitely cleaning up, there always is cleaning up. Well run Administrations do it as part of their job. We have a swamp issues, but it is not the Government employees that the GOP is going after that is the problem. It is the lobbyist. There is too much lobby influence and elected officials becoming multi-millionaires in office. The Private sector lobby is just as much a problem as the careerist in the Government. In my opinion, more so. This is not a new problem.

You are a student of the world situation, now is not the time for the US to go into turmoil. China is right there. Russia has already jumped off the fence to China's side and India is even paying attention.

You clean up when in a position of strength, right now we are too split to get the clean up done. I don't disagree with the need, just the timing. We need to get manufacturing up and defense up or it will be game on...

---

Is it really Trump doing the polarizing? Or are the irrational response actually a function of latent Democrat authoritarianism? Trump isn't the one causing all the alphabet people to go nuts over misgendering. Trump isn't the one causing Harvard to abide sophomorically uncreative plagiarism by its President, implicitly positioning her attackers as deplorables. (I could go on here for a bit with examples.....) The idea that Trump is causing all the division in the country is just plain nuts, friend. Complete inversion of cause & effect. If Democrats were acting differently, Trump would be a washed up TV star scarcely ever heard of.

We are in turmoil and it's not going to go away, friend. Because we are in a cold civil war with each other. And, yes, our enemies will see it and be emboldened. And we will smoke them anyway. Because we are that strong.

The battle to focus on is the enemy within. Democrats have CLEARLY made that determination, and are making shocking authoritarian moves. You need to wake up.....

This chick can not even pander correctly.

She takes down the confederate battle flag in South Carolina and hugs Jessie Jackson on the steps of the SC Capitol building…..setting off the mass iconoclastic movement we have seen in this country since 2015.

Then turns around and waffles about slavery in front of a Yankees?


What the heck is she doing…

It's so funny that Nikki Haley (who removed the stars and bars from the SC capitol as governor) thinks that she could possibly win over anyone with this answer. https://t.co/ZA3oIUUnN7

— Dissident Soaps (@DissidentSoaps) December 28, 2023

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I've never encountered a Haley supporter, online or otherwise.

Are they all in New Hampshire? https://t.co/x4k4psnRUQ

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 23, 2023

---

I got at least one maybe two in my family, they voted for Biden in 2020. Solid never Trumper's.

---

I think all 17 of them can be found shuffling between this Starbucks and this Taco Bell https://t.co/HoRjtZEM3y pic.twitter.com/LqcNiHsXUW

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) December 23, 2023

---

I know several Haley supporters (who've donated to her), and they are conservative/libertarian types who did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. The appeal seems to be less that she's more moderate than other front-runners. It has more to do with style - tough but not Trumpy, with perhaps greater appeal in the middle.

Objective analysis is pretty clear: No other candidate on the stage, or in view, will do more to unite the party as VP than Haley. A meaningful percentage of neverTrumpers will justify voting for him, if she is on the ticket (and by extension is his likely successor).

Personally, I'm not an opponent, but neither a terribly big fan. I respect her toughness and her experience as Gov and UN-Ambo, but she's the least likely of anyone on the stage to attempt serious reforms in Washington, particularly on the social issues. She's a "fix it & get it back on the road" candidate, not a "drain the swamp" type.

But we have to deal with that problem if/when it arises in 2028 and beyond. Urgencies exist. Other problems need fixing first. Gotta win in 2028. I'll risk letting Oso have a seat at the table & deal with his BS later, because that's what it takes to win.

---

Alot more than just Oso... More than you seem to give credit.

You guys keep talking about Drain the Swamp. At what cost? The Nation? Who in the Drain the Swamp crowd can actually Govern? Gaetz? Marjorie-Greene? Or the "shut down the Govt" coalition? There is a great underestimation on how easy it will be and the ramifications...

---

LOL so we NEED a swamp? yes, we will always have one, but does it not benefit us to clean it out from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting there is any benefit to culturing it and learning to appreciate its many gifts? Barns always have rats. Never, ever will you get rid of all of them once & for all. Reality is, farmers from time to time have to have to grab a hoe and conduct a rat-killing. Often, we bring the kids along and make a sport of it. You never kill all the rats, but do reduce the damage to inventory and the odor is much improved.....(rat killings are usually riotous fun. kids swinging hoes, rats running up pants legs, squeals of panic mixed in with squeals of joy.....) When you suppress the rat population, you inherently suppress the snake problem, too.....

yeah, the neverTrumpers are a mid-range single-digit numbers. Moderates about 20-25%. Trump supporters consistently posting numbers in the 56-65% range. This is what a normally functioning party looks like - a smaller establishment with a larger base. More often, the smaller number of establishment types by virtue of experience and money control things, and the big number grouses about not enough getting done. (when in fact what does get done or not is generally a reasonable balance of practicality and the Overton Window. ) But every so often, the establishment loses touch with its base. The base gets restive and takes over by force of numbers. Which is where we are now. And when that happens, the establishment often gets the vapors about all the monkeys driving the bus. The choice they have is whether they will fight for control of the bus (in which case the bus ends up in the ditch), or whether they will help the monkeys drive the bus (knowing that after some success the monkeys will get tired of actually driving bus and get distracted onto other things.....allowing a new establishment/base coalition to emerge.)

The question is, where do you want the bus to be, friend? Do you seriously intend to force the bus into the ditch just so you can have a better chance to get back your rightful place in the drivers seat? This is the moderates' dilemma. Are they willing to play nice with people they mostly agree with but are not always well dressed or well-behaved? Or are they going to get all principled (for a change) over the question of who is in control of the party? (keeping in mind that the people on the other side of the aisle are wild-eyed ideologues intent on burning down the whole damned barn).

---

There is a huge difference between needing a swamp and recognizing what Political systems are and how they operate and trashing the system to "clean it up". If "cleaning up the swamp" is a bi-product of good Governance, no problem. But, if "cleaning out the swamp" becomes the mission in lieu of good, competent Governance that is a problem just as bad as the swamp itself. Like anything else, the swamp serves a purpose and is healthy in moderation. Is it out of control? That is debatable, there are defiently some areas to be cleaned up, but not at the cost of getting the Nation back on the tracks.

We have not had competent Governance in a while, the system cannot take much more. The main mission has to be sound Governance and getting the Nation back on the Tracks. That is why I prefer Haley to Trump. There is too much baggage and revenge driven agenda for this point in US History. We can't have another 4 years of Kindergarten ***** Want to run on an anti-corruption, trust busting, end Tammany Hall platform have at it. Create a swamp-tsar and assign it to the VP, but the President can't be on a vendetta against those that wronged him.

---

So you admit we need at some measure of cleaning of the swamp?

Interesting word, vendetta. Democrats are clearly on a vendetta to get Trump, and even the people who are participating in it don't deny it. Yet, somehow, moderate Republicans think the problem is the target of the vendetta. I mean, what the hell is the social justice movement, anyway, if it is not a frickn' vendetta? The double standard you are seeking to enforce is one of the larger parts of the problem. .....

---

I don't disagree that the Dems behavior is abhorrent and outright wrong. It still doesn't lessen the impact of a Trump 2...

It is not that I believe that he has bad policies. The problem is that he polarizes to the point of irrational responses and the Country can't take 4 more years of this *****

Yes, there is definitely cleaning up, there always is cleaning up. Well run Administrations do it as part of their job. We have a swamp issues, but it is not the Government employees that the GOP is going after that is the problem. It is the lobbyist. There is too much lobby influence and elected officials becoming multi-millionaires in office. The Private sector lobby is just as much a problem as the careerist in the Government. In my opinion, more so. This is not a new problem.

You are a student of the world situation, now is not the time for the US to go into turmoil. China is right there. Russia has already jumped off the fence to China's side and India is even paying attention.

You clean up when in a position of strength, right now we are too split to get the clean up done. I don't disagree with the need, just the timing. We need to get manufacturing up and defense up or it will be game on...

---

Is it really Trump doing the polarizing? Or are the irrational response actually a function of latent Democrat authoritarianism? Trump isn't the one causing all the alphabet people to go nuts over misgendering. Trump isn't the one causing Harvard to abide sophomorically uncreative plagiarism by its President, implicitly positioning her attackers as deplorables. (I could go on here for a bit with examples.....) The idea that Trump is causing all the division in the country is just plain nuts, friend. Complete inversion of cause & effect. If Democrats were acting differently, Trump would be a washed up TV star scarcely ever heard of.

We are in turmoil and it's not going to go away, friend. Because we are in a cold civil war with each other. And, yes, our enemies will see it and be emboldened. And we will smoke them anyway. Because we are that strong.

The battle to focus on is the enemy within. Democrats have CLEARLY made that determination, and are making shocking authoritarian moves. You need to wake up.....

---

The Dems are making shocking moves. But the first order of business is getting power back. The Dems have the numbers. They also mobilize better and stand together better than the GOP. They have the media and academia. Those are facts. This is like taking a Defensive position without Air Support and limited Artillery! Infantry frontal assaults are only going to make a mess. So, it is going to take other tactics.

Trump polarizes and mobilizes the enemy like no other Candidate, ever. They will get their superior numbers to vote in mass. The media will be in full assault mode. Trump wins the nomination, the GOP is committed and it is game over. Trump winning the nomination is the point of no return.

This is an incredibly risky strategy with his history, his legal distractions and his volatile personality. Fortune may favor the bold, but only if you can out mobilize the opposing vote.

Haley will get more favorable coverage from the media, the big business/swamp works in her favor and she is likable to the Independents that abandoned Trump last time. The smart long term strategy is Haley, she can win and govern. Trump may be fun to watch, but they will move heaven and earth to stop him.

Turns out Nikki knows as little about the Civil War as she does about the Ukraine War.

But whatever war it was, I’m sure she’s in favor of it. 💵 pic.twitter.com/zJJSDc86Bc

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 28, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

---

This chick can not even pander correctly.

She takes down the confederate battle flag in South Carolina and hugs Jessie Jackson on the steps of the SC Capitol building…..setting off the mass iconoclastic movement we have seen in this country since 2015.

Then turns around and waffles about slavery in front of a Yankees?


What the heck is she doing…

It's so funny that Nikki Haley (who removed the stars and bars from the SC capitol as governor) thinks that she could possibly win over anyone with this answer. https://t.co/ZA3oIUUnN7

— Dissident Soaps (@DissidentSoaps) December 28, 2023

---

LOL

Silly attempt at criticism.

Only going to get even sillier as Haley continues to threaten Trumps fragile lead.

But by all means keep those bizarre fantasies that Trump will be able to attract mainstream voters enough to win.