Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

This will also have zero impact

NEW

Multiple Women Claiming Romantic Relationships With RFK Jr. Threaten His Standing in Trump Orbit

“Trump is concerned,” the person told Mediaite. He’s “concerned that there are more women, and that more affairs will come out. Right now, they are waiting to see if the news… pic.twitter.com/jZF1lZMrRL

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) October 2, 2024

---

at this point, pretty rumor mill.. people arent changing their votes over these things released today

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

If he's not going to vote for a divisive person or party, he doesn't have a candidate in this election.
He must be writing in Captain Kangaroo.

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

Coming from a RINO like Kasich, this is a pretty strong endorsement of Trump.

Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Fox anchor Neil Cavuto: "It was in this newly unsealed court paper we're learning that former President Trump resorted to crime in a bid to cling to power after the 2020 election." pic.twitter.com/W3rfhZlZyD

— Lis Power (@LisPower1) October 2, 2024

---

30 days before the election?

---

no surprise there. the lawfare has always been about the election.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sorry I'm late off the mark today. I got up at three to watch the debate, and then wrote something about it for The European Conservative. It starts like this:

Quote:

---

The vice presidential debate settled one important question: Yes, whatever happens in November, J.D. Vance, age 40, is the future of American conservatism. He was confident, he was smart, he was in command. A European conservative friend watching the debate with me said, "If the Republican Party had twenty J.D. Vances, they would be running the country."
But you know what the debate didn't settle?
Where the Democratic and Republican campaigns stand on the Ukraine war.
Where they stand on the economic and military challenges from China.
Where they stand on the issue of women's rights (and family rights) versus transgender rights.
Where they stand on the issue of DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) policies.
Where they stand on the deep racial conflict in America.
The debate neither settled nor illuminated these issues, because the CBS moderators-Norah O'Donnell and Margaret Brennan-didn't ask about them. They did, however, ask about climate change and January 6, two issues of burning importance to coastal liberals.
Whether it intended to or not, Team CBS protected Tim Walz's vulnerable flanks. On all of those unasked questions, the Democrats are vulnerable. The party stands for a failed status quo. Watching the debate from Europe, it was striking how insular and out of touch the journalist-led discussion wasand not only because the questions favored the Democrats.

---

Of course I was pleased as punch with how J.D. Vance performed. I know he could have scalped anxious Walz at any moment, but he had to be on his best, pink-tie behavior to calm women viewers at home, who think he's TOO MEAN. But yeah, what terrible moderators.

And by the way, what J.D. Vance said about Minnesota babies born during botched abortions being allowed to die is true.

---

Vance is a great debater. So is Ted Cruz. They both made the mistake of tying themselves to an awful person who they once recognized as awful. It will haunt their presidential ambitions for a long time.

As to the Minnesota abortion issue, the article says that of the eight instances, three were "pre-viable," two had "fetal anomalies," and the other three were given comfort care. There is (understandably) no public access to the medical records in these cases. But they certainly seem like eight circumstances in which doctors and families made the heart wrenching decision that immediate care would not change an inevitable result.

Those decisions likely lessened pain and suffering, but the GOP wants to leverage incredibly difficult situations for cheap political points. Very Christian of them.

---

The situations wouldn't have happened if the abortion wouldn't have happened. That seems to be the blind sport in your analysis.

Texas AG Ken Paxton is now demanding a list of registered voters who don’t have driver’s licenses.

At this point in the election cycle, removal by this routine process is not an option due to federal voting laws. Story by ⁦@BlaiseGainey⁩. #txlege https://t.co/lyXsKvLJ5E

— Dracu-Lauren Mc-Ghoul-hy 🧛‍♀️ (@lmcgaughy) October 3, 2024

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

This quote below basically explains that dynamic.

The rank and file Republican voter is more Vance than Romney/Cheney

The average Republican donor/leader is more Romney/Cheney than Vance.


[For a decade, Republican voters have signaled they wanted to protect Medicare, cut immigration, fight fewer wars, and nominate no more Bushes," wrote former Bush speechwriter David Frum. "Their party leaders interpreted those signals as demands to cut Medicare, increase immigration, put boots on the ground in Syria, and nominate another Bush."]


Remember....the average GOP voters is a White Male, from a Christian background, making less than $70k a year.

[Republicans now control most of the House seats in districts where the median income trails the national level of nearly $65000 annually.]

No a demographic that cares about tax cuts for the rich or crushing entitlement programs

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

---

I'm referring to post Goldwater to just before Trump.

I've never said conservatives agree on every issue, nor should they.

abortion = infanticide
This is true at any time of gestation. Innocent human beings are being murdered in large numbers and this is the most importantly focal point for the Dems. They want to kill as many babies as possible.

For these reasons and more, I call it the American Holocaust. They are morally equivalent.

sombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

---

I'm referring to post Goldwater to just before Trump.

I've never said conservatives agree on every issue, nor should they.

---

Wasn't meant to be a snarky or "gottcha" comment. I was really thinking about it. Buckley is the perfect example. His views on size of Govt is right in line with this Board. His views on social issues are not. He also was able to change based on new information. Such as segregation and Iraq.

Was a serious thought. I grew up on Buchanon and morphed to Reagan.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

---

How would Southern Democrats....foundational to the conservative movement in America....but not Republicans factor into that?

The Conservative movement in America is a centuries long movement across party lines.

The Republicans (and the pro-corporate wing of the GOP) is just one faction.

Again....some of the issues listed are foundational REPUBLICAN issues....not CONSERVATIVE issues.

Roger Scruton would have serious issues with calling the Cheaney clan "conservative"....but certainly they are Republican royalty

"For the conservative, human beings come into this world burdened by obligations, and subject to institutions and traditions that contain within them a precious inheritance of wisdom, without which the exercise of freedom is as likely to destroy human rights as to enhance them."

Roger Scruton, Conservatism: An Invitation to the Great Tradition


"The most important input into conservative thinking is the desire to sustain the networks of familiarity and trust on which a community depends for its longevity. Conservatism is what its name says it is: the attempt to conserve the community that we have"

Roger Scruton, Conservatism: An Invitation to the Great Tradition

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

---

I'm referring to post Goldwater to just before Trump.

I've never said conservatives agree on every issue, nor should they.

---

Wasn't meant to be a snarky or "gottcha" comment. I was really thinking about it. Buckley is the perfect example. His views on size of Govt is right in line with this Board. His views on social issues are not. He also was able to change based on new information. Such as segregation and Iraq.

Was a serious thought. I grew up on Buchanon and morphed to Reagan.

---

That itself fixes Reagan at a certain point.

Reagan today might have very very different views on the Military industrial complex or mass migration.

The USSR is long gone....we no longer have 3 million illegals in America- we have 20 million.

Reagan today might be more like Vance...and you would not like that.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine.

---

True

But Libertarians are probably not even Conservatives at all.

(And one has to wonder if Neo-cons are as well)

[Russel Kirk rejected Meyer's thesis outright. As he explained in his essay "Libertarians: the Chirping Sectaries," libertarianism and conservatism are not only disparate: they're antithetical. He even went so far as to say that "a libertarian conservative is as rare a bird as a Jewish Nazi." For libertarians are "utilitarian materialists," says Kirk, whereas traditionalists believe in a "transcendent moral order." Libertarians are concerned principally with questions of free versus unfree, wealth versus poverty. For traditionalists, the question of right versus wrong trumps all. Either government stands on the side of Good against Evil, or else it declares itself neutral, and is therefore complicit with Evil. Those are our options.]

More bad math for Dems. Really bad.

BREAKING: Trump has made up a 24-point deficit with Michigan voters aged 18-29 since 2020, according to recent NYT/Siena polling.

2020
Biden - 61%
Trump - 37%

2024
Harris - 45%
Trump -45%

— Leading Report (@LeadingReport) October 3, 2024

boognish_bear said:

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Texas AG Ken Paxton is now demanding a list of registered voters who don’t have driver’s licenses.

At this point in the election cycle, removal by this routine process is not an option due to federal voting laws. Story by ⁦@BlaiseGainey⁩. #txlege https://t.co/lyXsKvLJ5E

— Dracu-Lauren Mc-Ghoul-hy 🧛‍♀️ (@lmcgaughy) October 3, 2024

---

Neither was voter harvesting in 2020. Fight the left as the left.

FLBear5630 said:

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sombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

---

I'm referring to post Goldwater to just before Trump.

I've never said conservatives agree on every issue, nor should they.

---

Wasn't meant to be a snarky or "gottcha" comment. I was really thinking about it. Buckley is the perfect example. His views on size of Govt is right in line with this Board. His views on social issues are not. He also was able to change based on new information. Such as segregation and Iraq.

Was a serious thought. I grew up on Buchanon and morphed to Reagan.

---

I didn't interpret it that way at all. Just providing context because you're right, time period matters.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine.

---

True

But Libertarians are probably not even Conservatives at all.

(And one has to wonder if Neo-cons are as well)

[Russel Kirk rejected Meyer's thesis outright. As he explained in his essay "Libertarians: the Chirping Sectaries," libertarianism and conservatism are not only disparate: they're antithetical. He even went so far as to say that "a libertarian conservative is as rare a bird as a Jewish Nazi." For libertarians are "utilitarian materialists," says Kirk, whereas traditionalists believe in a "transcendent moral order." Libertarians are concerned principally with questions of free versus unfree, wealth versus poverty. For traditionalists, the question of right versus wrong trumps all. Either government stands on the side of Good against Evil, or else it declares itself neutral, and is therefore complicit with Evil. Those are our options.]

---

For sure, and I should have been more clear. I mean Repubs with libertarian leanings. The Rand Paul types.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)

---

I think on many of these things you mean traditional Republican party positions....not traditional conservative positions.

More foreign regime change wars/proxy wars and fleecing of the tax payer so the State Department & Pentagon can play around in the Donbas would not be a "traditional conservative position"....even if the Bush/Cheney wing of the GOP loves more war overseas.

On trade and spending...yes the MAGA faction is far more populist conservative (Vance) than the average upper income Republican of old (Mitt Romney)

But that is the whole point no? MAGA is the populist right fighting with the Bush/Cheney wing for control of the party.

Most Republican voters are right on social values/moderate to even left on economic ones.

While Republican leadership has been moderate to Left on social values/while right on economic ones.

---

Strategically dropping Romney/Bush/Cheney into the debate doesn't help your argument.

I listed traditional, longtime, Republican principles. We can agree or disagree with them, but they have been the foundation of the conservative movement.

I'm not, in this post, arguing the merits of any of those positions, nor am I defending folks like Romney et al.

But, on those foundational issues I listed, Kasich is far more conservative (and Republican) than Vance and Trump.

I did not bring military/foreign affairs into the equation b/c there has always been a more libertarian wing of the GOP that is nowhere near as hawkish as the establishment. But, if we were bringing that in, then that is another issue on which at least rhetorically Trump has strayed from traditional GOP doctrine. I say rhetorically because Trump dramatically increased military/foreign spending and pledges more. Handed out weapons like they were candy, including to Ukraine. Kept our troops int he middle east and our bases around the world. Authorized assassination. Did nothing to roll back U.S. surveillance and other Patriot Act-type practices. Talked tougher on Putin than pretty much anyone when Putin invaded Ukraine. And, he recently made clear he always planned to maintain Bagram and thousands of troops in Afghanistan.

---

That is an interesting comment, "foundation of the conservative movement". What are we talking? Pat Buchanon? William Buckley? Reagan? Trump?

What "Conservative Philosophy" are we discussing? I have a tendency to be more Reagan than Trump. Buckley is interesting because he would favor Ukraine, was against Iraq, for legalizing Marijuana and for outlawing cigarettes. That doesn't fit this Board's view.

---

I'm referring to post Goldwater to just before Trump.

I've never said conservatives agree on every issue, nor should they.

---

Wasn't meant to be a snarky or "gottcha" comment. I was really thinking about it. Buckley is the perfect example. His views on size of Govt is right in line with this Board. His views on social issues are not. He also was able to change based on new information. Such as segregation and Iraq.

Was a serious thought. I grew up on Buchanon and morphed to Reagan.

---

That itself fixes Reagan at a certain point.

Reagan today might have very very different views on the Military industrial complex or mass migration.

The USSR is long gone....we know long have 3 million illegals in America- we have 20 million.

Reagan today might be more like Vance...and you would not like that.

---

No, Reagan saw the US as a different animal than the Trump and Vance do.

As for what Reagan would do. Reagan actually granted amnesty. Did he regret it? That is what they say, but he still did it to get the deal he wanted. Reagan would not have mass deportations, he would work on Americanizing them. Eisenhower would and did deport...

If Reagan faced 10-20 million illegals brought in by treasonous govt officials, he would almost certainly think about mass deportations. But it's impossible to know for sure and it's irrelevant. That was then this is now.

I don't think it works that way Stew

If Trump can’t manage his own wife from publicly coming out in favor of abortion one month before the election, he definitely can’t manage this country. pic.twitter.com/wtq0pqk3mi

— Stew Peters (@realstewpeters) October 3, 2024

🚨 BREAKING: Donald Trump is the clear favorite to win the 2024 election under CNN's latest national poll update, with win odds of nearly 70%. pic.twitter.com/Ny2Y5D8ewP

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) October 3, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

I don't think it works that way Stew

If Trump can’t manage his own wife from publicly coming out in favor of abortion one month before the election, he definitely can’t manage this country. pic.twitter.com/wtq0pqk3mi

— Stew Peters (@realstewpeters) October 3, 2024

---

you arent voting for M Trump..

She is allowed to have her own opinion

Trump isnt doung anything related to abortion anyway, he did it already by sending it to the states

WI Senate race may price to be a bellwether. In 2016 Ron Johnson rallied from over 9-pts down to defeat challenger Russ Feingold. At one point, Johnson was so far down the GOP pulled funding from him, only to return to the race in as he began to surge. WI is a notoriously hard place to poll so anything could happen, but the dynamics here are favorable. Difficult to envision a scenario where Hovde wins and Trump loses. And a Trump win in WI likely closes the door on Harris's electoral college pathway.

🚨 NEW: There’s internal Democratic panic about the Wisconsin Senate race.

Baldwin’s internals only have her up by 2, and the race is tightening fast.

Dems are on track to be outspent from now to Election Day in the state.

More on the alarm bells:https://t.co/JuapfjFZu8

— Stephen Neukam (@stephen_neukam) October 4, 2024

🚨 BREAKING: Latest polling from Trafalgar Group and Insider Advantage suggests Trump is on track for a landslide victory in the 2024 election, with a commanding lead in key battleground states. Read the full report here: https://t.co/ZrKrO4UYCh #Election2024 #TrumpWins

— Patriot911 (@Patriot911News) October 2, 2024

Harris has gained about a point in national polls over the past week while state polls have been ~unchanged. This looks like mean reversion after a phase where national polls were closing toward tipping-point state polls. pic.twitter.com/7KhfMVgj1J

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 2, 2024

boognish_bear said:

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Harris has gained about a point in national polls over the past week while state polls have been ~unchanged. This looks like mean reversion after a phase where national polls were closing toward tipping-point state polls. pic.twitter.com/7KhfMVgj1J

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 2, 2024

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thats a Trump EV win based on current polling numbers listed there