The collapse of South Africa?

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Redbrickbear
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11:48p, 3/1/23
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/why-south-africas-collapse-finally-came-down-to-eskom/

[Could the collapse of South Africa, so long foretold by pessimists, finally be arriving? The United States government thinks it's possible.

On February 15, the U.S. embassy in Pretoria advised Americans in South Africa to have at least seventy-two hours' worth of food, water, medicine, and hygiene supplies in case of power outages, which have reached record levels in recent weeks, leaving users across the country without electricity for hours at a time. In January, the U.S. State Department's Overseas Security Advisory Council held a meeting, which was leaked to journalists in an audio recording, to discuss the need to prepare for a total collapse of South Africa's power grid. ]
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whiterock
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 2:39a, 3/2/23
Redbrickbear said:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/why-south-africas-collapse-finally-came-down-to-eskom/

[Could the collapse of South Africa, so long foretold by pessimists, finally be arriving? The United States government thinks it's possible.

On February 15, the U.S. embassy in Pretoria advised Americans in South Africa to have at least seventy-two hours' worth of food, water, medicine, and hygiene supplies in case of power outages, which have reached record levels in recent weeks, leaving users across the country without electricity for hours at a time. In January, the U.S. State Department's Overseas Security Advisory Council held a meeting, which was leaked to journalists in an audio recording, to discuss the need to prepare for a total collapse of South Africa's power grid. ]


Collapse in relative terms. An advisory like that would apply in a lot of places around the world. Intermittent power to residential grids is a problem so widespread that (in Africa particularly) many countries' Embassy housing comes with auto-start generators. Power goes off….(3, 2, 1)…generator fires up. Dinner conversation will continue as if nothing happened. Most mornings, you have to reset house clocks. Part of daily routine….

In Europe, and much of Latin America and Asia, embassy staff leases their own housing (with housing allowance money). In all of Africa (except SA), Middle East, embassy leases housing, extensively modifies power, water, sewer, and adds security upgrades.

We have it pretty good here.
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MoonshineJones17
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5:07p, 3/2/23
No one could have predicted this.
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MoonshineJones17
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In reply to MoonshineJones17 • 5:09p, 3/2/23
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Redbrickbear
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7:01p, 3/2/23
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Titus and Titus
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9:54p, 3/2/23
Much more is going on than rolling blackouts. The hate crimes and violence against White people in SA has been going on for decades. Basic infrastructure has already collapsed in many areas. It will go the way of Rhodesia just as everyone predicted.
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Titus and Titus
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9:56p, 3/2/23
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BearFan33
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In reply to Titus and Titus • 9:34a, 3/3/23
Titus and Titus said:
Much more is going on than rolling blackouts. The hate crimes and violence against White people in SA has been going on for decades. Basic infrastructure has already collapsed in many areas. It will go the way of Rhodesia just as everyone predicted.
Not just whites. Indians and really any one not deemed African black are being persecuted.

South Africa was once almost like a European country. It has been terrible to see its decline.
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whiterock
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In reply to BearFan33 • 9:53a, 3/3/23
BearFan33 said:
Titus and Titus said:
Much more is going on than rolling blackouts. The hate crimes and violence against White people in SA has been going on for decades. Basic infrastructure has already collapsed in many areas. It will go the way of Rhodesia just as everyone predicted.
Not just whites. Indians and really any one not deemed African black are being persecuted.

South Africa was once almost like a European country. It has been terrible to see its decline.

At the bottom of the food chain are the coloreds. What a tortured existence they have.
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Redbrickbear
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11:18a, 3/3/23
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Redbrickbear
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2:07p, 3/3/23
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Redbrickbear
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1:57p, 3/5/23
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Golem
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2:15p, 3/5/23
Can anyone tell me what ethnic group was harassed, attacked and ousted in large numbers prior to both Rhodesia and SA diving into economic decline/shambles?

Hint: It' the same ethnic group that has fled large Democrat run cities and seen those cities fall into much the same level of crime and economic ruin. Also, many people call this group privileged....which appears to actually mean they are the ones who make things work.
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atomicblast
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4:53p, 3/5/23
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to atomicblast • 6:45p, 3/5/23
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
I will respectfully disagree, Sir. There are many educated blacks in our country and many hard-working blue collar black men and women that have made their way, risen up, and succeeded. They are not going to allow the deadbeats and criminals to bring them down. My best friend since childhood is a black man. He was the first in his family to get a college degree. No way in Hell he is going back. He worked hard to be where he is today.
Bitcoin, $Trumpcoin, or $Fartcoin? That is the question.
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BellCountyBear
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 10:03p, 3/5/23
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
I will respectfully disagree, Sir. There are many educated blacks in our country and many hard-working blue collar black men and women that have made their way, risen up, and succeeded. They are not going to allow the deadbeats and criminals to bring them down. My best friend since childhood is a black man. He was the first in his family to get a college degree. No way in Hell he is going back. He worked hard to be where he is today.
I concur with this post. It's not about skin color despite what liberals will pronounce. It's about moral values and culture.
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Porteroso
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In reply to BellCountyBear • 11:04p, 3/5/23
BellCountyBear said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
I will respectfully disagree, Sir. There are many educated blacks in our country and many hard-working blue collar black men and women that have made their way, risen up, and succeeded. They are not going to allow the deadbeats and criminals to bring them down. My best friend since childhood is a black man. He was the first in his family to get a college degree. No way in Hell he is going back. He worked hard to be where he is today.
I concur with this post. It's not about skin color despite what liberals will pronounce. It's about moral values and culture.

It was not a liberal R2 replied to.
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whiterock
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In reply to Porteroso • 5:56a, 3/6/23
Porteroso said:
BellCountyBear said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
I will respectfully disagree, Sir. There are many educated blacks in our country and many hard-working blue collar black men and women that have made their way, risen up, and succeeded. They are not going to allow the deadbeats and criminals to bring them down. My best friend since childhood is a black man. He was the first in his family to get a college degree. No way in Hell he is going back. He worked hard to be where he is today.
I concur with this post. It's not about skin color despite what liberals will pronounce. It's about moral values and culture.

It was not a liberal R2 replied to.
exactly. liberals tend to have have a racially ordered worldview and can have quite intolerant views on the subject.
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nein51
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6:42a, 3/6/23
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/why-south-africas-collapse-finally-came-down-to-eskom/

I'm not sure it's possible to discuss SA without sounding like a raging racist. I'll leave it at this; basically every metric shows everyone (black and white) were better off under apartheid.

My stepson's dad is from SA and I can tell you his family vacillates from sad to angry about what is happening there.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to BellCountyBear • 10:13a, 3/6/23
BellCountyBear said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
I will respectfully disagree, Sir. There are many educated blacks in our country and many hard-working blue collar black men and women that have made their way, risen up, and succeeded. They are not going to allow the deadbeats and criminals to bring them down. My best friend since childhood is a black man. He was the first in his family to get a college degree. No way in Hell he is going back. He worked hard to be where he is today.
I concur with this post. It's not about skin color despite what liberals will pronounce. It's about moral values and culture.
Though one could argue that is a "chicken and egg" type situation.

Something made the Dutch far more innovative, hardworking, tech savvy, and successful than the Bantus of Southern Africa.

A small ethnic group living in a swampy area around the size of Vermont near the North Sea were able to create a global trade empire and build an advanced nation state in South Africa.

The people they encountered were far less advanced...mostly nomadic and semi-nomadic people groups.

Why this took place is something that we could fill 100 pages arguing about. But the Afrikaners seem to have been able to produce good governance and an effective State and for whatever reason the non-Western people groups of SA can not keep the State going at the same level.



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D. C. Bear
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In reply to atomicblast • 1:10p, 3/6/23
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
South Africa has always had "whites" as the minority.
In 1990, South Africa's GDP was $3160 per capita. In 2021 it was a little over $7,000. South Africa has a lot of problems, but "collapse" isn't really one of them.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to D. C. Bear • 1:22p, 3/6/23
D. C. Bear said:
atomicblast said:
South Africa is the **** hitting the fan scenario that will happen here in the US when whites become the minority. You have the education system peddling hate politics with no resolution other than violence.
South Africa has always had "whites" as the minority.
In 1990, South Africa's GDP was $3160 per capita. In 2021 it was a little over $7,000. South Africa has a lot of problems, but "collapse" isn't really one of them.
Modern South Africa is certainly a strange duck.

Some improvements and some large set backs since the end of Apartheid.

But for whatever reason the country has been in continuous crisis for nearly 30 years.

https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/economy-and-ecology/south-africas-never-ending-crisis-5331/

[South Africa's growth has trended downwards since 2010, averaging just 1.7 per cent between 2011 and 2018. In 2019, South Africa was plunged into its third recession since 1994. Precipitating factors included: the global downswing following the global financial crisis, declining commodity prices, deindustrialization, 'state capture' (that is, systemic corruption), budgetary cuts, restrictive macroeconomic policies, slowed investment as a result of economic stagnation, and insufficient electricity supply and resultant blackouts, amongst others.]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/2/10/30-years-since-mandela-was-freed-where-does-south-africa-stand

["The political change the country has witnessed … is unprecedented. It cannot be underestimated," Dale McKinley, a political analyst, told Al Jazeera.

"Political space has opened up and gone are the days where people were arrested for expressing their political views."

"On the socioeconomic front, little has changed. In fact, things have gotten worse when it comes to basic services like healthcare, housing and education," McKinley said.]

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Redbrickbear
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2:23p, 3/6/23
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/23/crime-worrying-in-south-africa-7000-murdered-in-three-months

[More than 7,000 people were murdered over three months in South Africa, according to new police statistics, which showed a rise in violent crime from the same period last year.

On Wednesday, South Africa's parliamentary portfolio committee on police heard details of the crime statistics, recording those crimes reported to the South African Police Service (SAPS) from July 1 to September 30, 2022.]
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Grinnin bear
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:11p, 3/6/23
Redbrickbear said:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/23/crime-worrying-in-south-africa-7000-murdered-in-three-months

[More than 7,000 people were murdered over three months in South Africa, according to new police statistics, which showed a rise in violent crime from the same period last year.

On Wednesday, South Africa's parliamentary portfolio committee on police heard details of the crime statistics, recording those crimes reported to the South African Police Service (SAPS) from July 1 to September 30, 2022.]
US has about 330m now. South Africa about 60m. In 2021, the US had about 26k reported/ attributed homicides. South Africa may have more murders than the United States, despite having less than 20% of the U.S.'s population. Staggering.
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whiterock
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In reply to Grinnin bear • 5:02a, 3/7/23
Grinnin bear said:
Redbrickbear said:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/23/crime-worrying-in-south-africa-7000-murdered-in-three-months

[More than 7,000 people were murdered over three months in South Africa, according to new police statistics, which showed a rise in violent crime from the same period last year.

On Wednesday, South Africa's parliamentary portfolio committee on police heard details of the crime statistics, recording those crimes reported to the South African Police Service (SAPS) from July 1 to September 30, 2022.]
US has about 330m now. South Africa about 60m. In 2021, the US had about 26k reported/ attributed homicides. South Africa may have more murders than the United States, despite having less than 20% of the U.S.'s population. Staggering.
Obviously, RSA needs to ban ARs.
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fadskier
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10:02a, 3/7/23
So now, is there a single "non-****hole" country in Africa...Egypt maybe?
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nein51
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In reply to fadskier • 10:21a, 3/7/23
fadskier said:
So now, is there a single "non-****hole" country in Africa...Egypt maybe?

SA has been unsafe for a long time. This isn't new.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to fadskier • 10:24a, 3/7/23
fadskier said:
So now, is there a single "non-****hole" country in Africa...Egypt maybe?
Its got 109 million people jammed into the Nile river valley and Nile Delta. And the average GDP per captia is about $4,176. For comparison Guatemala is about $9,931

Though it has a relatively low homicide rate (2.2)....barely higher than New Zealand or Latvia. And much less than the USA (6.5)

Its corruption index is about the same as Mexico.

So its poor, crowded, relatively corrupt, but also relatively safe.

Botswana is probably one of the best. Low crime, low murder rate, 5th highest per captia GDP, 88% literacy rate, 70 year old average life expectancy, corruption index score almost the same as Poland.
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Lilit
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 5:08a, 3/11/23
It is concerning to hear about the power outages in South Africa and the potential for a collapse of their power grid. The situation highlights the critical importance of having a stable and reliable energy infrastructure, not only for the economic well-being of a country but also for the safety and health of its citizens.

As someone who writes about ecology and zero waste, it is essential to recognize the links between our energy systems, the environment, and our overall well-being. We must work towards building a more sustainable and resilient energy infrastructure that benefits both people and the planet. To learn more about sustainable living and reducing waste, visit my site at link.

The article touches on the role of Eskom, the national power company in South Africa, in contributing to the country's energy crisis. This issue is a reminder that our energy systems have real and tangible impacts on our daily lives and the health of our planet. It is crucial that we prioritize investing in sustainable and renewable energy sources that are not only reliable but also help to mitigate the effects of climate change.
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nein51
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In reply to Lilit • 8:42a, 3/11/23
Lilit said:
It is concerning to hear about the power outages in South Africa and the potential for a collapse of their power grid. The situation highlights the critical importance of having a stable and reliable energy infrastructure, not only for the economic well-being of a country but also for the safety and health of its citizens.

As someone who writes about ecology and zero waste, it is essential to recognize the links between our energy systems, the environment, and our overall well-being. We must work towards building a more sustainable and resilient energy infrastructure that benefits both people and the planet. To learn more about sustainable living and reducing waste, visit my site at link.

The article touches on the role of Eskom, the national power company in South Africa, in contributing to the country's energy crisis. This issue is a reminder that our energy systems have real and tangible impacts on our daily lives and the health of our planet. It is crucial that we prioritize investing in sustainable and renewable energy sources that are not only reliable but also help to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Lol the collapse of the SA power grid has literally zero to do with climate change. Get that sh8t out of here.

It has to do entirely with incredibly poor management and corruption of ESKOM. Not raising rates because it wasn't expedient to the government, leading to not being able to make needed upgrades, so on and so forth. They have been headed this way for a long time.

Climate change has nothing in the world to do with their electricity problems. If you want singular blame the rise of corruption post apartheid is your answer. It's not truly the only reason but it is surely the single largest contributor.
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D. C. Bear
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In reply to nein51 • 8:48a, 3/11/23
I think you are talking to a bot.
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nein51
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In reply to D. C. Bear • 9:10a, 3/11/23
D. C. Bear said:
I think you are talking to a bot.

I think so too. But it was worth the 5 minutes for anyone else who bothered to read that garbage.
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Redbrickbear
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12:41p, 3/11/23
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12:43p, 3/11/23
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3:59p, 3/12/23
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