Oldbear83 said:

---

Denial is common when someone dislikes the truth.

---

Couldn't have described yourself any better. Let the fact remain that you never provided any answer as to what it is about Protestants that you had to "call out" other than straw men which you projected onto them.

Your pattern is becoming all too repetitive - failing to provide anything substantive when asked and then start attacking the asker.

You do nothing but attack and argue, Caiaphas.

What's sad is you imagine you serve Christ with your endless hate.

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Where did Jesus say that to be saved, we must "pick up our cross"?

And again (and again), if "picking up our cross" is indeed required to be saved, then what does "picking up our cross" look like, and what is enough in order to be accepted by Jesus in order to go to heaven? What is the cutoff point? If we can't ever know, then we can't have assurance - but 1 John 5:13 directly states that we can. So is John wrong?

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

Trivia: Who is the Apostle of the Gentiles? And what does that mean?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

Yes. You're making great points. In fact the thief on the cross did exactly one of the works I posted in my superfluous list of works Christ and his apostolic progreny called us to do in the inspired text in addition to faith and or as a way of showing our faith.

Taking up a cross, a command from my / our Lord Jesus Christ , is also a call to action beyond just faith or as part of having faith.

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

The Bible doesn't give us any way to measure that we have enough faith. And it doesn't tell us how many works. It definitely doesn't say none. It actually says the opposite of none.

It's an odd hill for some to die on out of pride or ignorance or both or more.

And, of course, God can do whatever He wants. There's no studio judges. He is a fair and just judge. If he has a reason to put Hitler or Father McCarrick or Stalin or on and on in Heaven, that's not for me to judge and does not impact my soul

I simply try my best to follow the commands given, to obey the Lord, to have faith and trust in God's grace and act out my faith as I am called biblically to do in numerous places explicitly. Yet I still fail every day and fall short and hopefully for all that effort, trying to avoid sin, taking up my cross, trying to live like Christ and praying He helps me avoid sin, I am living as he has called me to live - a humble filthy sinner and servant of the Lord I love with all my heart (another immeasurable measure) and try to set a Christian example for others.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

What you're saying isn't very clear. You always seem to be vague like this. You seem to be saying that we don't know whether or not we are saved or not, that it's determined on an individual basis subject to whether Jesus decides to have mercy on you or not.

If someone were to ask you how they can be saved, what is it that you would tell them?

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

---

That's what we're here to discuss. What beliefs and interpretations are correct and why? Considering that eternal life is at stake, I can't think of a more worthy topic. Far, far from being "miniscule" and a way to just "pass the time". You need to get your priorities in order. Are my beliefs or interpretations wrong? What's your argument?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

---

That's what we're here to discuss. What beliefs and interpretations are correct and why? Considering that eternal life is at stake, I can't think of a more worthy topic. Far, far from being "miniscule" and a way to just "pass the time". You need to get your priorities in order. Are my beliefs or interpretations wrong? What's your argument?

---

Indeed sir; you are unabashedly qualified to tell others the inadequacies of their priorities.

' Dear Lord it's hard to be humble; when you're perfect in every way. I look in the mirror; I'm better looking every day.

To know me, is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble…….

But I am doing the best that I can. '


Busy

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

---

That's what we're here to discuss. What beliefs and interpretations are correct and why? Considering that eternal life is at stake, I can't think of a more worthy topic. Far, far from being "miniscule" and a way to just "pass the time". You need to get your priorities in order. Are my beliefs or interpretations wrong? What's your argument?

---

Indeed sir; you are unabashedly qualified to tell others the inadequacies of their priorities.

' Dear Lord it's hard to be humble; when you're perfect in every way. I look in the mirror; I'm better looking every day.

To know me, is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble…….

But I am doing the best that I can. '


Busy

---

So you have absolutely no argument against any position or interpretation I have presented. Thanks for your time, but there's more important things to discuss than deal with someone who just wants to personally attack. I take it you're a Catholic and are venting over the painful truths I exposed. I'm glad you're reacting this way, it means the truth has hit you in a deep way.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

---

That's what we're here to discuss. What beliefs and interpretations are correct and why? Considering that eternal life is at stake, I can't think of a more worthy topic. Far, far from being "miniscule" and a way to just "pass the time". You need to get your priorities in order. Are my beliefs or interpretations wrong? What's your argument?

---

Indeed sir; you are unabashedly qualified to tell others the inadequacies of their priorities.

' Dear Lord it's hard to be humble; when you're perfect in every way. I look in the mirror; I'm better looking every day.

To know me, is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble…….

But I am doing the best that I can. '


Busy

---

So you have absolutely no argument against any position or interpretation I have presented. Thanks for your time, but there's more important things to discuss than deal with someone who just wants to personally attack. I take it you're a Catholic and are venting over the painful truths I exposed. I'm glad you're reacting this way, it means the truth has hit you in a deep way.

---

I have zero desire to argue with a gentleman who exists to argue incessantly.

Let's just save time and agree that your belief system is far superior to those who disagree with you over the interpretation of every single word in the Bible.

And as a result you and those who accept your 'guidance' are on the fast track to heaven.

While those who are not enlightened enough to accept such 'guidance' are on the fast track to hell.

Especially those millions of horrible Catholics.

Have a wonderful day sir.

Hello KaiBear;

I must admit your post surprises me a little.

Once we have lived a while, it is normal to wonder about purpose, whether there is more to Life than just eating, sleeping, and so on until we die.

It's an odd thing I have found, that for the most part people say it matters if you are good, even bad people say so.

And we find a strange satisfaction in helping someone who cannot pay us back or give us any advantage from the act.

To me that suggests there is more to Life than just Life itself. As a husband it deeply matters to me if I am making my wife happy, as a father it deeply matters to me if I am helping my children become good, responsible people. As a citizen, it matters to me to be part of the politics in my town, state and nation, even when it costs me energy, money and time I could be using for pleasure.

And it deeply matters to me that I show gratitude to my Creator, especially since every good thing I have and good person I know was provided me by His Grace.

It matters to me that God loved us, even one like me, to the point that He would live here among us, as one of us, yet He did not take power or privilege here but showed us how even the poorest and least impressive person might in Truth be the one we all depend upon .

It matters to me that God, for all His power and holiness and authority, listens to my prayers and out of love counts them important to Him!

I understand everyone is free to choose their path,but if you became aware of some like that, who did so much for you, surely you would want to know them better and learn the way of true Joy, hope and faith.

It baffles me how someone could have that offered to them, yet reject it as unimportant.

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Maybe someday I will finally comprehend how good people can argue incessantly over the most minuscule aspects of the Bible.

Or what God is going to do or not do.

Guess it's just a way to pass the time.

However we will all enter the grave eventually; regardless who 'wins' such debates.

---

A person's salvation to eternal life is just a "miniscule" topic?

You have everything backwards. This topic is the most important topic of anyone's earthly life, and the most important to get right. It's all the incessant political and sports banter that only have temporary, earthly significance and thus are a way to "pass the time". The fact that we will all go to our graves and will face our Creator someday should be a very sobering wake-up call for everyone.

---

Yes sir; how silly of me.

Your specific beliefs are correct and your interpretations of every single sentence of the Bible are indisputably accurate.

Please proceed.

---

That's what we're here to discuss. What beliefs and interpretations are correct and why? Considering that eternal life is at stake, I can't think of a more worthy topic. Far, far from being "miniscule" and a way to just "pass the time". You need to get your priorities in order. Are my beliefs or interpretations wrong? What's your argument?

---

Indeed sir; you are unabashedly qualified to tell others the inadequacies of their priorities.

' Dear Lord it's hard to be humble; when you're perfect in every way. I look in the mirror; I'm better looking every day.

To know me, is to love me, I must be a hell of a man.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble…….

But I am doing the best that I can. '


Busy

---

So you have absolutely no argument against any position or interpretation I have presented. Thanks for your time, but there's more important things to discuss than deal with someone who just wants to personally attack. I take it you're a Catholic and are venting over the painful truths I exposed. I'm glad you're reacting this way, it means the truth has hit you in a deep way.

---

I have zero desire to argue with a gentleman who exists to argue incessantly.

Let's just save time and agree that your belief system is far superior to those who disagree with you over the interpretation of every single word in the Bible.

And as a result you and those who accept your 'guidance' are on the fast track to heaven.

While those who are not enlightened enough to accept such 'guidance' are on the fast track to hell.

Especially those millions of horrible Catholics.

Have a wonderful day sir.

---

Right. You have no argument against anything I've said, so you feel the need to personally attack me in order to invalidate my arguments. I get that a lot here. Seems like those who can't argue against what I've said either go to ad hominem or "block" me as their only recourse.

And no one said Catholic people are horrible, but only that Roman Catholicism teaching is horrible. Straw men like this also seem to be a favorite tactic among those with no real argument.

Who here believes in Sola Scriptura? Let's start here. If you can't make your argument based on Scrioture alone, without Churxh writings, tradition, history, then you are on very weak ground.

Anyone? Anyone?

It's Palm Sunday. Easter is next week! Find a good Bible believing Church and attend.

Why don't we all just answer questions directly? If you don't know the answer say I don't know.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

Please take take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet

Through The Bible With Les Feldick (25 Minute Lessons)

https://www.lesfeldick.org/

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

Ha. The post you're responding to unwittingly made my exact point I made to him / her before blocking him / her after rudeness and name calling (very unChristian like) . Game. Set. Match.

I had to get him : her to walk into it backwards but they didn't even realize they did

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Why don't we all just answer questions directly? If you don't know the answer say I don't know.

---

Because for them its about self-preservation rather than seeking the truth.

It amazes me to no end, how someone can believe that by merely "blocking" another person, it means their points which show their position to be wrong don't exist, so they don't have to change their thinking. This is someone who just doesn't care about the truth, but rather only cares about preserving what they already believe.

For those reading this thread who ARE interested in trying to gather the truth, realize this: the only response to my points so far has been 1) blocking me; 2) ignoring my questions, and 3) personal attack. Gather from that what you may, I think it's notable.

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

---

The sooner you abandon your straw man that we're saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commands, the better and more productive it'll be for this discussion.

Obedience is a fruit of true faith. True faith is what saves, not your obedience.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

---

The sooner you abandon your straw man that we're saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commands, the better and more productive it'll be for this discussion.

Obedience is a fruit of true faith. True faith is what saves, not your obedience.

---

It's not about disobeying Jessus. It's about that He wasn't talkkng to the Church. He was talking to Jews under Law.

Romans 3:19 KJV
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:


The same Jesus gave Paul his message of grace and it is only contained in Paul's writings.

Happy Resurrection Day! He Is Risen Indeed!!!

Did you go to church to celebrate Christ's resurrection?

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

---

The sooner you abandon your straw man that we're saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commands, the better and more productive it'll be for this discussion.

Obedience is a fruit of true faith. True faith is what saves, not your obedience.

---

It's not about disobeying Jessus. It's about that He wasn't talkkng to the Church. He was talking to Jews under Law.

Romans 3:19 KJV
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:


The same Jesus gave Paul his message of grace and it is only contained in Paul's writings.

---

Some here say you only have to believe. They don't say how much to believe. A lot? How can one measure? Do you have to outwardly demonstrate you believe? Nope not at all. Not a single work is required your entire life (oh wait. Believing is a work so just 1 now they say but it can be silently in the thoughts of your brain or deep in the hidden recesses of your heart. No worries. Just one work. Not none. But definitely no workS required even though it is written everywhere and stayed frequently by Jesus himself) . Just believe. How can one know they believe "enough", they are asked? They have no answers for this but try to sell some simple way to achieve everlasting life by just believing. It sounds great. So easy. So warm and fuzzy. Yet unlikely OSAS and just close your eyes and whisper in your head "Jesus, I believe" and poof you go to Heaven. Nothing else is required they say.

Some here believe, as it is written, God commands more to be done. They may ask "Well how much more?" Only God can know so do the best you know how but do the actions that he commands. The works required to have faith because "faith alone" will never be enough. It even explicitly states in the Bible that "faith alone" isn't enough. Yet some can see and yet are blind. Some will call out teacher and He will say I know you not.

Work hard every day to not be that person.

Prayers for all on this journey we struggle with daily and may God's Grace be upon us all.

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

---

The sooner you abandon your straw man that we're saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commands, the better and more productive it'll be for this discussion.

Obedience is a fruit of true faith. True faith is what saves, not your obedience.

---

It's not about disobeying Jessus. It's about that He wasn't talkkng to the Church. He was talking to Jews under Law.

Romans 3:19 KJV
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:


The same Jesus gave Paul his message of grace and it is only contained in Paul's writings.

---

Some here say you only have to believe. They don't say how much to believe. A lot? How can one measure? Do you have to outwardly demonstrate you believe? Nope not at all. Not a single work is required your entire life (oh wait. Believing is a work so just 1 now they say but it can be silently in the thoughts of your brain or deep in the hidden recesses of your heart. No worries. Just one work. Not none. But definitely no workS required even though it is written everywhere and stayed frequently by Jesus himself) . Just believe. How can one know they believe "enough", they are asked? They have no answers for this but try to sell some simple way to achieve everlasting life by just believing. It sounds great. So easy. So warm and fuzzy. Yet unlikely OSAS and just close your eyes and whisper in your head "Jesus, I believe" and poof you go to Heaven. Nothing else is required they say.

Some here believe, as it is written, God commands more to be done. They may ask "Well how much more?" Only God can know so do the best you know how but do the actions that he commands. The works required to have faith because "faith alone" will never be enough. It even explicitly states in the Bible that "faith alone" isn't enough. Yet some can see and yet are blind. Some will call out teacher and He will say I know you not.

Work hard every day to not be that person.

Prayers for all on this journey we struggle with daily and may God's Grace be upon us all.

---

But what does the Bible.say? That's what counts. & obviously God doesn't consider Faith a work. Because the Bible says Faith without the works of the Law & that it's not by works of righteousness which WE have done....

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

I've been struggling what I've heard some here says is all that is needed from you for eternal salvation with Jesus' words to "pick up your cross"

Make it make sense.

I believe

---

Well, the first thing I suggest is to step back and assume goodwill unless there is evidence of malice.

Jesus made plain that He wanted to save men, not look for excuses to condemn.

Consider the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him. I have seen all kinds of complicated theories about how the thief did some kind of work to support his redemption, or how his case proves all we have to do is sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, but how about recognizing Christ is King and has authority on this point, not any human.

More than one place is it written that God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Or consider the woman caught in adultery. Despite her clear sin, Christ (the only one without sin and therefore the only one who could throw the first stone) chose not to condemn her. No one would seriously claim that meant Jesus did not uphold the Law, rather it showed Christ had authority and compassion and used both where He chose.

Jesus did indeed tell us to take up our cross and follow Him. He also said His yoke is light. That's not a contradiction but reveals that the Lord thinks of each of us as individual persons, and His will and judgment for us is according to the Father's will.

Again, I think whenever a Christian gets angry at another Christian, he or she may well be missing something the Holy Spirit wants us to find.

---

The Bible doesn't say you have to follow The 10 commandments to go to Heaven but no way do I want to be on the side of that convoluted argument yet many here are, whether they realize it or not.

---

That's exactly what Jesus said in the Bible. Matthew 19:16-17 :

"And behold, a man came up to [Jesus], saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

What do you make of this?

---

The reason Jesus said this is because He was Ministering to Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus came to fulfil the Law, but it hadn't been fulfilled yet until.the Crusifixion. After the Resurrection, they were free from the Law, but that hadn't been revealed yet until the Apostle Paul. The be leaving you still kept the law while at the same time Paul's Gentile converts we're under grace. After the destruction of the Temple, the Jews could no longer sacrifice and they were instructed to go to Paul's writing for salvation. In this day and age we are all under grace and must come to Christ my faith alone believing that He died on the cross and the rose from the Dead for our sins to be saved. The law cannot save anyone.

---

You as well have been misled into their "faith alone" trope which is nowhere in the Bible except one place which doesn't say what you are saying.

You're confusing the mosaic laws of the Jews with commands Jesus told us to obey. Not obeying them but somehow believing you have faith is 1) a non sequitur and 2) leads to a very bad place.

---

The sooner you abandon your straw man that we're saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commands, the better and more productive it'll be for this discussion.

Obedience is a fruit of true faith. True faith is what saves, not your obedience.

---

It's not about disobeying Jessus. It's about that He wasn't talkkng to the Church. He was talking to Jews under Law.

Romans 3:19 KJV
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:


The same Jesus gave Paul his message of grace and it is only contained in Paul's writings.

---

Some here say you only have to believe. They don't say how much to believe. A lot? How can one measure? Do you have to outwardly demonstrate you believe? Nope not at all. Not a single work is required your entire life (oh wait. Believing is a work so just 1 now they say but it can be silently in the thoughts of your brain or deep in the hidden recesses of your heart. No worries. Just one work. Not none. But definitely no workS required even though it is written everywhere and stayed frequently by Jesus himself) . Just believe. How can one know they believe "enough", they are asked? They have no answers for this but try to sell some simple way to achieve everlasting life by just believing. It sounds great. So easy. So warm and fuzzy. Yet unlikely OSAS and just close your eyes and whisper in your head "Jesus, I believe" and poof you go to Heaven. Nothing else is required they say.

Some here believe, as it is written, God commands more to be done. They may ask "Well how much more?" Only God can know so do the best you know how but do the actions that he commands. The works required to have faith because "faith alone" will never be enough. It even explicitly states in the Bible that "faith alone" isn't enough. Yet some can see and yet are blind. Some will call out teacher and He will say I know you not.

Work hard every day to not be that person.

Prayers for all on this journey we struggle with daily and may God's Grace be upon us all.

---

But what does the Bible.say? That's what counts. & obviously God doesn't consider Faith a work. Because the Bible says Faith without the works of the Law & that it's not by works of righteousness which WE have done....

---

Well that's the key. You're almost there.

Faith in and of itself is not a work. In a way to help placate those that get pretzeled up in it it has been written and explained that true faith really can't exist without an outward (visible to other humans) action or work. One can't be cloistered in their room for 89 years telling God in their head they really really love him and believe and truly practice true faith. Also better articulated in the definition of the Greek word used in those verses for what we call "faith" in English and what that meant to people of the day. Church fathers write extensively in this as well. Certainly Luther was taught and knew and understood this before he invented new dogma 1500 years later.

Works of the law as we've said over and over, for example in Romans and slashing pee pees to get to Heaven, are not required as the Jews were trying to suggest to the Gentiles (meaning works of the Mosaic law).

Works are required as stated in near countless posts I've made to date explicitly quoting chapter and verse and probably 20 church fathers writings explaining and teaching the scriptures from the time of Peter to Augustine (stopped there only to remain relevant to the near term period showing how far back this discussion and teaching goes)

Some say it doesn't matter. That's not a risk I or people who are say Catholic are willing to risk. Anyone I try to help lead to the faith will never be told that by me as I wouldn't want that on my soul in misleading them. I have enough other dirty stuff there anyway. Don't need more.