How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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In reply to Oldbear83 • 8:08a, 4/20/24
Oldbear83 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Or just go to a real church and speak to a human being who will do more than repeat simple phrases, and perhaps even listen to you.



Why would I want to pay attention to someone who has no real interest in exploring the actual truth? You don't consider any verses or arguments I post. You have a know it all attitude and all you do is deflect and accuse others of what you are actually doing. You are probably a Democrat.
And there it is, the disappointing but predictable ad hominem .

For a self-proclaimed "worship leader" Frodo, you show very little grace but a very thin skin.



"Self Proclaimed" Worship Leader? Are you a Self Proclaimed Christian? See how silly you sound? Stating a fact isn't pride. Get over yourself. I'm not sorry for spreading the Gospel and Leading God's people in Worship.

Would you say that to Jesus or the Apostle Paul or the Disciples when they Exhort you also? You need to be called out for your attitude. You are rude, arrogant and Judgemental to everyone here. You like to argue rather than discuss and debate in factual information. Just curious, do you vote Democrat? You have the same attitude as they do. People like you are not teachable.

Philippians 2:1-8 KJV

[1] "If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, [2] fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. [3] Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. [4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. "

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7:29a, 4/23/24
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 9:31a, 4/23/24
Please take the time to talk to real people, don't trust your soul to someone who doesn't do more than get into useless bickering.

And yes, Frodo, that means no one should depend on my opinion alone either.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 1:48p, 4/23/24
Oldbear83 said:
Please take the time to talk to real people, don't trust your soul to someone who doesn't do more than get into useless bickering.

And yes, Frodo, that means no one should depend on my opinion alone either.


You are being used of Satan right now. There always has to be that one guy, used of Satan to hinder people from Coming to the Salvation of the Lord. Usually, it is a Liberal or an Atheist, but at this place, it is you. This is EXACTLY what you are doing right now:


Matthew 23:13 KJV
[13] "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. "
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 2:06p, 4/23/24
Tantrum from Frodo the proud Internet Pharisee.

I dare you to show this thread to your pastor and ask how Christlike you are being.

For clarity, calling you out for drive-by platitudes is in no way comparable to opposing the Gospel.

You boast about your role in church, so you more than many should understand that the Gospel is active and living, and depends on human connection.

If someone is hungry, feed them.

If someone is sick, heal them.

If someone is living in fear, provide specific hope.

If someone doesn't know Christ, reflect Christ's actions.

I have been around a long time, and never have I met even one person who became a Christian because some stranger posted a random Bible verse and offered nothing more. I know many people who became Christians, because of specific actions taken by those Christians to help them where they needed it most.

Take a good long look at the Gospels and you may realize that is what Christ did every time He entered a town or a home: He immediately helped someone in a direct and useful way, and every lesson was rooted in practical context.

A forum is a fine place to discuss ideas, throw around banter, have some fun. But only a shameless narcissist imagines he is changing anyone's life, much less that his opinion counts as equal to Christ, as your last post did, Frodo.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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9:00p, 4/23/24
You are not a Southern Baptist. You are opposed to the Gospel of Grace. I no longer respect you or your opinion on any matter regarding the Bible. All you are good for is bumping this thread to help people get the Gospel by reading this first post.. How dare you try to block people from the way of Salvation. The Lord reward you according to your works.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 10:05p, 4/23/24
I have been a Southern Baptist ever since I was baptized at Calvary Baptist Church in Waco.

And I have served Christ, never opposing Him.

Your problem is that you are devoted to the worship of Frodo and his pride.

This is why you are angry.

To the point that you ignore Scripture quoting Christ, and depend on a biased interpretation of Paul.

I will pray for you again.



That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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11:37p, 4/23/24
You are not a Southern Baptist. You are opposed to the Gospel of Grace. I no longer respect you or your opinion on any matter regarding the Bible. All you are good for is bumping this thread to help people get the Gospel by reading this first post.. How dare you try to block people from the way of Salvation. The Lord reward you according to your works. I am angry because you are ignorantly trying to block people from Coming to Christ for Salvation. How wicked!
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 6:21a, 4/24/24
Repeating a lie does not make it any more true, Frodo. And your spite here does not prove anything but your own need to stop and consider your spirit in this topic .

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 7:30a, 4/24/24
Oldbear83 said:
Repeating a lie does not make it any more true, Frodo. And your spite here does not prove anything but your own need to stop and consider your spirit in this topic .



You mean like repeating the lie that good works save a man?
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 9:13a, 4/24/24
xfrodobagginsx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Repeating a lie does not make it any more true, Frodo. And your spite here does not prove anything but your own need to stop and consider your spirit in this topic .



You mean like repeating the lie that good works save a man?
Since I never said that, the lie would be yours, along with your other fibs like claiming I am not a Southern Baptist, or that reminding you that the body of Christ is a community and not just a drive-by post on an internet forum is somehow opposing Christ.

You're certainly on a tear. You might want to check Matthew 12:36 before your next rant.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 10:51a, 4/24/24
Oldbear83 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Repeating a lie does not make it any more true, Frodo. And your spite here does not prove anything but your own need to stop and consider your spirit in this topic .



You mean like repeating the lie that good works save a man?
Since I never said that, the lie would be yours, along with your other fibs like claiming I am not a Southern Baptist, or that reminding you that the body of Christ is a community and not just a drive-by post on an internet forum is somehow opposing Christ.

You're certainly on a tear. You might want to check Matthew 12:36 before your next rant.


Did you or did you not post verses of Jesus talking. about helping the poor, feeding the hungry for Salvation?
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 11:25a, 4/24/24
xfrodobagginsx said:
Oldbear83 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Repeating a lie does not make it any more true, Frodo. And your spite here does not prove anything but your own need to stop and consider your spirit in this topic .



You mean like repeating the lie that good works save a man?
Since I never said that, the lie would be yours, along with your other fibs like claiming I am not a Southern Baptist, or that reminding you that the body of Christ is a community and not just a drive-by post on an internet forum is somehow opposing Christ.

You're certainly on a tear. You might want to check Matthew 12:36 before your next rant.


Did you or did you not post verses of Jesus talking. about helping the poor, feeding the hungry for Salvation?
Dude, is English not a language you speak?

You are conflating our duties as followers of Christ with efficacious works effecting Salvation. This is a mistake you seem to repeat here.

Since you refuse to pay attention, here is a short list of some of the times in this thread I have made it clear that Salvation comes through Christ's work and not ours:

May 15, 2023, 800 PM: " we cannot earn heaven and our works cannot be meritorious, but how we receive God's grace has much to do with whether we receive God's grace."

May 19, 2023, 750 AM: "I always took that to mean that works were the fruit of faith, proof that God was working through you, not that you could earn points with God by doing works.


Also, keep in mind that what God considers the works of faith depends on your particular circumstances. When the thief on the cross next to Christ rebuked the third man and asked Christ to remember him, God counted that as a work from his faith in Christ. But when Pharisees argued with Jesus because of what they believed, Jesus pointed to their behavior to show their hypocrisy.

We are each called to repentance, confession, and works in faith because of God's love acting through us. Not to put something on a scoreboard, but to reflect the love we receive and pass it on."

June 6, 2023, 901 AM "XFrodo contends, per Scripture, that our Salvation is accomplished and possible solely through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. He points to Scripture which plainly says we are not to be proud of our works as meritorious, but humbly thank God for His Grace and our Salvation. He notes that Jesus praised faith and trust in Him, such as the Good Centurion and the Thief on the Cross.


Freedombear contends, and also with Scripture, that we are commanded to perform good works, and the absence of such works would prove our faith to be false. He notes that Jesus promised that his 'brothers and sisters' are those who do HIs Father's will.

I do not personally see a conflict between these two positions. There is plainly no way I can do any act which would forgive my sins against others. Even if I could go to everyone I ever hurt or wronged, and like Zaccheus provide recompense and apology, the fact of my initial offense would remain. Only God has the power to erase sin, and that by the prescribed atonement paid by Christ.

Yet if I am a Christian, how should I continue to do those things which hurt people, or do and say things I know are offensive to my Master? I, like so many, wrestle with my old self, but there are things I did before that I do not do now, and things I did not do before which I do now in love of my Lord and my neighbor. I meditate and pray each day, in praise of God but also in inspection of my choices and behavior, so that today I may be better than the day before."

June 7, 2023, 1042 PM "Look at your works. Which, do you think, is the most valuable to God? Which of them made Him decide you should go to Heaven, do you think?


Now before we go on, I will also say that Faith is not something that has merit in the way so many think.

For now, consider the verse: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

That's a snapshot of the start. Now to more recent posts, just to show things have not changed.



March 15, 2024, 814 AM "There is a good reason for the verse commending us to work out our Salvation in "fear and trembling". Being a follower of Christ does not depend on a membership card or feeling like we can just sit around and go to Heaven, the whole purpose is make us more like Christ by doing as He commands."

March 15, 2024, 1149 AM "some believe they are saved, because they wanted to be saved from the consequences of their sin but did not really repent of their sin, much less change their ways.


This is, I believe, Christ so often warned that you will know men by their fruits. He warned how many would say 'Lord, Lord' but not act in imitation of Christ."

March 22, 2024, 850 AM "What concerns me, Frodo, is that the people who were sent away by Christ believed they were saved, but were not. You are correct that trusting in works is the wrong way to think, but there is danger the other way as well.


Consider Luke 19:23, where the servant who does nothing with what he was given loses what he had to start.

Consider Matthew 12:50, where Christ plainly says "whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." This means - I would say - that what we do is part of whether we are His

This interpretation is consistent with Matthew 23:23, where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees, saying: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesmint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawjustice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former"

Christ is noting (see the bold part) that works matter, but only if they are done in a spirit of justice, mercy and faithfulness. Works done out of pride and ego are not pleasing to God, but doing nothing is not the way of the Servant."



I look forward to your considered response, Frodo.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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xfrodobagginsx
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3:47p, 4/24/24
Again, your beliefs are not consistent with the SBC. Works are not part of our Salvation, but you keep throwing them in there where they don't belong.

Works of Faith are evidence of Salvation, but not part of it. The Thief on the cross was not saved because he rebuked the other man on the other cross. He was saved because he admitted that he was a sinner and turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise.

We are not under the gospel of the Kingdom we are under the Paul's gospel of grace given to him by the ascended Lord Jesus after the resurrection. Before Paul's gospel was given the disciples preached the gospel of the Kingdom which was believe on your Messiah repent and be baptized.

Paul's message was faith in Jesus Christ believing that he died on the cross and rose from the dead shutting his blood as a sacrifice for our sins.

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel.

Two different messages two different audiences. You are mixing them is one of your issues.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 3:56p, 4/24/24
** sigh **

None so blind as those who refuse to see.

Enjoy your hypocrisy and arrogance alone, Frodo, I am putting you on ignore, as so many others before have wisely done and advised me to also do.

Bye.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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BusyTarpDuster2017
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 5:37p, 4/24/24
xfrodobagginsx said:
Again, your beliefs are not consistent with the SBC. Works are not part of our Salvation, but you keep throwing them in there where they don't belong.

Works of Faith are evidence of Salvation, but not part of it. The Thief on the cross was not saved because he rebuked the other man on the other cross. He was saved because he admitted that he was a sinner and turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise.

We are not under the gospel of the Kingdom we are under the Paul's gospel of grace given to him by the ascended Lord Jesus after the resurrection. Before Paul's gospel was given the disciples preached the gospel of the Kingdom which was believe on your Messiah repent and be baptized.

Paul's message was faith in Jesus Christ believing that he died on the cross and rose from the dead shutting his blood as a sacrifice for our sins.

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel.

Two different messages two different audiences. You are mixing them is one of your issues.
Probably pearls before swine at this point, sadly.

All you and I are doing is giving the biblical gospel, yet he has contended against every chance he gets. He has attacked us more than he has attacked egregiously wrong beliefs that elevate Mary to Jesus, or lead to the worship of saints, etc. He SAYS salvation isn't by works, but then he suggests otherwise in his posts. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, it seems. I STILL don't know what his position is exactly. And so when I try to get him to clarify his position, all he does is lash out back at me, calling me a "pharisee" and calling my questioning "interrogation" while avoiding answering entirely. And he blames me for "not furthering the discussion"! I agree 100% that he constantly accuses the other person of doing exactly what he is doing. It really is strange. There is clearly something wrong with this person spiritually. I don't know if he is truly a Christian or not, but if he is, it is clear that he is being obstructed by something. Perhaps he is need of our prayers more than our debate.
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 5:48p, 4/24/24
Oldbear83 said:
** sigh **

None so blind as those who refuse to see.

Enjoy your hypocrisy and arrogance alone, Frodo, I am putting you on ignore, as so many others before have wisely done and advised me to also do.

Bye.



Do you promise? You're not just saying that are you?
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 5:50p, 4/24/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Again, your beliefs are not consistent with the SBC. Works are not part of our Salvation, but you keep throwing them in there where they don't belong.

Works of Faith are evidence of Salvation, but not part of it. The Thief on the cross was not saved because he rebuked the other man on the other cross. He was saved because he admitted that he was a sinner and turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise.

We are not under the gospel of the Kingdom we are under the Paul's gospel of grace given to him by the ascended Lord Jesus after the resurrection. Before Paul's gospel was given the disciples preached the gospel of the Kingdom which was believe on your Messiah repent and be baptized.

Paul's message was faith in Jesus Christ believing that he died on the cross and rose from the dead shutting his blood as a sacrifice for our sins.

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel.

Two different messages two different audiences. You are mixing them is one of your issues.
Probably pearls before swine at this point, sadly.

All you and I are doing is giving the biblical gospel, yet he has contended against every chance he gets. He has attacked us more than he has attacked egregiously wrong beliefs that elevate Mary to Jesus, or lead to the worship of saints, etc. He SAYS salvation isn't by works, but then he suggests otherwise in his posts. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, it seems. I STILL don't know what his position is exactly. And so when I try to get him to clarify his position, all he does is lash out back at me, calling me a "pharisee" and calling my questioning "interrogation" while avoiding answering entirely. And he blames me for "not furthering the discussion"! I agree 100% that he constantly accuses the other person of doing exactly what he is doing. It really is strange. There is clearly something wrong with this person spiritually. I don't know if he is truly a Christian or not, but if he is, it is clear that he is being obstructed by something. Perhaps he is need of our prayers more than our debate.


BTD,

It's because I think he espouses to a works based gospel but won't admit it. He claims to be a southern baptist but his views are not consistent with Southern Baptist views. I was a worship leader in the Southern Baptist Church for 15 years and that is not what they believe. He is actively trying to get people not to read this first thread and come to salvation. What did Jesus say to those who hindered others from coming to salvation? That they would receive the greater damnation. Because not only did they refuse to enter in themselves but hindered those who were seeking to enter in.

I just want to say that I'm thankful for your support here.
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BusyTarpDuster2017
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 9:30p, 4/24/24
xfrodobagginsx said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Again, your beliefs are not consistent with the SBC. Works are not part of our Salvation, but you keep throwing them in there where they don't belong.

Works of Faith are evidence of Salvation, but not part of it. The Thief on the cross was not saved because he rebuked the other man on the other cross. He was saved because he admitted that he was a sinner and turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise.

We are not under the gospel of the Kingdom we are under the Paul's gospel of grace given to him by the ascended Lord Jesus after the resurrection. Before Paul's gospel was given the disciples preached the gospel of the Kingdom which was believe on your Messiah repent and be baptized.

Paul's message was faith in Jesus Christ believing that he died on the cross and rose from the dead shutting his blood as a sacrifice for our sins.

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel.

Two different messages two different audiences. You are mixing them is one of your issues.
Probably pearls before swine at this point, sadly.

All you and I are doing is giving the biblical gospel, yet he has contended against every chance he gets. He has attacked us more than he has attacked egregiously wrong beliefs that elevate Mary to Jesus, or lead to the worship of saints, etc. He SAYS salvation isn't by works, but then he suggests otherwise in his posts. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, it seems. I STILL don't know what his position is exactly. And so when I try to get him to clarify his position, all he does is lash out back at me, calling me a "pharisee" and calling my questioning "interrogation" while avoiding answering entirely. And he blames me for "not furthering the discussion"! I agree 100% that he constantly accuses the other person of doing exactly what he is doing. It really is strange. There is clearly something wrong with this person spiritually. I don't know if he is truly a Christian or not, but if he is, it is clear that he is being obstructed by something. Perhaps he is need of our prayers more than our debate.


BTD,

It's because I think he espouses to a works based gospel but won't admit it. He claims to be a southern baptist but his views are not consistent with Southern Baptist views. I was a worship leader in the Southern Baptist Church for 15 years and that is not what they believe. He is actively trying to get people not to read this first thread and come to salvation. What did Jesus say to those who hindered others from coming to salvation? That they would receive the greater damnation. Because not only did they refuse to enter in themselves but hindered those who were seeking to enter in.

I just want to say that I'm thankful for your support here.
I have no idea why he is on you for evangelizing through an internet forum. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It doesn't have to be the "be all end all" of someone's journey to salvation, it can be just a part of it. It can be planting a seed, which will lead to someone coming to faith later, when they combine other experiences and knowledge they get later.

You have contributed many good things on this forum. I think the dispensationalism you are discussing is very important for people to know about. Thanks for suggesting Les Feldick, I have listened to many of his videos. I am impressed with his grasp of scripture and his teaching on dispensationalism. There is much to learn from him.
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 11:38p, 4/24/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
xfrodobagginsx said:
Again, your beliefs are not consistent with the SBC. Works are not part of our Salvation, but you keep throwing them in there where they don't belong.

Works of Faith are evidence of Salvation, but not part of it. The Thief on the cross was not saved because he rebuked the other man on the other cross. He was saved because he admitted that he was a sinner and turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise.

We are not under the gospel of the Kingdom we are under the Paul's gospel of grace given to him by the ascended Lord Jesus after the resurrection. Before Paul's gospel was given the disciples preached the gospel of the Kingdom which was believe on your Messiah repent and be baptized.

Paul's message was faith in Jesus Christ believing that he died on the cross and rose from the dead shutting his blood as a sacrifice for our sins.

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel.

Two different messages two different audiences. You are mixing them is one of your issues.
Probably pearls before swine at this point, sadly.

All you and I are doing is giving the biblical gospel, yet he has contended against every chance he gets. He has attacked us more than he has attacked egregiously wrong beliefs that elevate Mary to Jesus, or lead to the worship of saints, etc. He SAYS salvation isn't by works, but then he suggests otherwise in his posts. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, it seems. I STILL don't know what his position is exactly. And so when I try to get him to clarify his position, all he does is lash out back at me, calling me a "pharisee" and calling my questioning "interrogation" while avoiding answering entirely. And he blames me for "not furthering the discussion"! I agree 100% that he constantly accuses the other person of doing exactly what he is doing. It really is strange. There is clearly something wrong with this person spiritually. I don't know if he is truly a Christian or not, but if he is, it is clear that he is being obstructed by something. Perhaps he is need of our prayers more than our debate.


BTD,

It's because I think he espouses to a works based gospel but won't admit it. He claims to be a southern baptist but his views are not consistent with Southern Baptist views. I was a worship leader in the Southern Baptist Church for 15 years and that is not what they believe. He is actively trying to get people not to read this first thread and come to salvation. What did Jesus say to those who hindered others from coming to salvation? That they would receive the greater damnation. Because not only did they refuse to enter in themselves but hindered those who were seeking to enter in.

I just want to say that I'm thankful for your support here.
I have no idea why he is on you for evangelizing through an internet forum. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It doesn't have to be the "be all end all" of someone's journey to salvation, it can be just a part of it. It can be planting a seed, which will lead to someone coming to faith later, when they combine other experiences and knowledge they get later.

You have contributed many good things on this forum. I think the dispensationalism you are discussing is very important for people to know about. Thanks for suggesting Les Feldick, I have listened to many of his videos. I am impressed with his grasp of scripture and his teaching on dispensationalism. There is much to learn from him.


If you walk all the way through the Bible with Him, you will understand more than 90+% of Ministers and Preachers. I don't agree 100% with him on everything, but most everything he teaches and he backs everything up with Scripture. Stick with it and you will be amazed at what you will learn from him that no other teacher will be able to teach. The depth of his Bible knowledge is amazing. To God be the Glory.
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Realitybites
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 6:10a, 4/25/24
Quote:

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel. Two different messages two different audiences.


Do you believe that the gospels dont apply to the church from a doctrinal sense because of this? Or that the epistles somehow apply more? It would seem that this sort of thinking could end up in a bad place.

As far as the church, the church is the Israel of God, and the only existing avenue man has to approach God following the Crucifixion and Resurrection. The terms of old contract were fulfilled and the practice of Judaism today is no more effective than Islam, Hinduism, or any other false religion. In fact there's a pretty good case to be made that without a temple, Judaism cannot really be practiced at all and what has been flying that banner for centuries is Phariseeism based on the Talmud. Furthermore, any rebuilt temple in Jerusalem will have no spiritual point aside from welcoming the Antichrist and engaging in meaningless animal sacrifice.
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4th and Inches
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2:18p, 4/25/24
Fun fact: there are approx 65,000 cross references in the Bible.

That is a lifetime of compounded sets of choices that allows each to take new pathway each time we read His word
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to Realitybites • 5:44p, 4/25/24
Realitybites said:
Quote:

The 4 gospels were written to Jews who were still under the law. Paul's writings were written to the church. The church is not Israel. Two different messages two different audiences.


Do you believe that the gospels dont apply to the church from a doctrinal sense because of this? Or that the epistles somehow apply more? It would seem that this sort of thinking could end up in a bad place.

As far as the church, the church is the Israel of God, and the only existing avenue man has to approach God following the Crucifixion and Resurrection. The terms of old contract were fulfilled and the practice of Judaism today is no more effective than Islam, Hinduism, or any other false religion. In fact there's a pretty good case to be made that without a temple, Judaism cannot really be practiced at all and what has been flying that banner for centuries is Phariseeism based on the Talmud. Furthermore, any rebuilt temple in Jerusalem will have no spiritual point aside from welcoming the Antichrist and engaging in meaningless animal sacrifice.


No, the Four Gospels don't directly apply to the Church, but they are profitable and God inspired. I would say that Paul's Epistles are directed to the Church and we are to adhere to it as direct instruction to the Church. The more I study, the more convinced that this is true.

The Church is NOT Israel. They are 2 Separate people groups of God. God's Covenant with Israel is still binding and His promises to THEM WILL be fulfilled. There is no temple right now in Israel because we are no longer under the Law, we are under Grace. In this age, Jews and Gentiles are saved by Grace through Faith alone, believing that Jesus Christ died and rose again for our sins. Once the pre Tribulation Rapture happens, God will once again turn His attention back to Israel and they will begin their Sacrifices during the Tribulation period until the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

Try listening to Through the Bible with Les Feldick. He is the greatest Bible Teacher I have ever heard and is just a regular guy. He will teach you sound Doctrine. He Is a Dispensationalist:

https://www.lesfeldick.org/
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to 4th and Inches • 8:09p, 4/25/24
4th and Inches said:
Fun fact: there are approx 65,000 cross references in the Bible.

That is a lifetime of compounded sets of choices that allows each to take new pathway each time we read His word


I wouldn't call them new pathways. They all fit together perfectly if you know how they fit.

This guy knows how they fit and will walk you through the Bible:

https://www.lesfeldick.org/
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xfrodobagginsx
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7:32a, 4/26/24
Try Bible Study this morning
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Realitybites
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In reply to xfrodobagginsx • 7:35a, 4/26/24
Quote:
No, the Four Gospels don't directly apply to the Church.

Yikes.

This probably qualifies as one of the top ten heretical statements made by a professing Christian that I've heard in my life. It's the mirror image of what the heretical Jesus Seminar/leftist red letter Christians are saying. I hope nobody else falls in this camp, regardless of what Les Feldick has to say about anything.
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to Realitybites • 12:30p, 4/26/24
Realitybites said:
Quote:
No, the Four Gospels don't directly apply to the Church.

Yikes.

This probably qualifies as one of the top ten heretical statements made by a professing Christian that I've heard in my life. It's the mirror image of what the heretical Jesus Seminar/leftist red letter Christians are saying. I hope nobody else falls in this camp, regardless of what Les Feldick has to say about anything.


It's because you don't have a real understanding of Biblical Theology. Dispensationalism teaches this and it's all backed by the Bible it's self. You have been taught wrong and so this seems foreign to you. I grew up believing that the OT was to the Jews and the NT is to the Church. After a very deep study of th Bible it's self, I was forced to chang my view. Listen Through The Bible With Les Feldick and tell me if you can Biblically refute what he says. Paul is the Apostle of the Gentiles, his Doctrine was given to him by the Risen Christ Himself for the Church because Israel rejected their Messiah and God turned to the Gentiles to call out of them a people for Himself. I can back my statements up with Scripture. Anyway, if you don't give Dispensationalists a chance to present their case, Biblically, then that's on you. A large percentage of Christians are Dispensationalists and they are the ones who actually take the Bible Literally instead of falsely allegorizing it.
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xfrodobagginsx
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2:11p, 4/26/24
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.
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xfrodobagginsx
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10:19a, 4/27/24
When is the last time you read your Bible?

Les Feldick will walk you through the Bible in 25 Minute interesting Lessons Filled with Information

https://www.lesfeldick.org/
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Realitybites
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10:06p, 4/27/24
After researching Feldick, it explains your false theory about the Gospels not directly applying to the church.

The Two Gospel Heresy

Don't Settle for Les
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to Realitybites • 7:30a, 4/29/24
Realitybites said:
After researching Feldick, it explains your false theory about the Gospels not directly applying to the church.

The Two Gospel Heresy

Don't Settle for Les


Oh brother. I have seen these. They don't prove anything, Biblically. You need to listen to Les and see if you can refute what he says BIBLICALLY. What he says is Biblical and that's what matters. I don't care if others disagree with him if he is Biblical. The Bible has to agree with you, That is what is important.
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to Realitybites • 11:29a, 4/29/24
Realitybites said:
After researching Feldick, it explains your false theory about the Gospels not directly applying to the church.

The Two Gospel Heresy

Don't Settle for Les


It's not two Gospels per se. It's that Israel was under the Gospel of the Kingdom at that time vs Now everyone is under the Gospel of Grace. Can you find repent and be Baptized in Paul's writings to the Church? No you can't.
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joseywales
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2:01p, 4/29/24
How can you believe these ancient ideas of Virgin birth all powerful beingS who performs miracles and died and came back to life ;And for the sins of man, really you are nothing more than a mammal just with greater brain power than other mammals. Mankind has never had a perfect being in its past it is just a man-made idea made up by ancient cultures who thought planets were being pushed around by angels. This is fact not belief yet so many still belive in this fantasy. Every Jewish and Christian belief arose from earlier beliefs learned from other cultures mostly Persian and Roman. There are literally 100 of pieces of evidence that all religion is a man-made phenomenon. And zero actual evidence of any life after death miracles etc. Now I am talking about strongly peer reviewed evidence not some heresy evidence from65 to 160 after said to happen. However people millions of them think aliens visited roswell even with the facts pointing to a price of tinfoil and tape was the only thing discovered. Wake up.
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xfrodobagginsx
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In reply to joseywales • 8:48p, 4/29/24
joseywales said:
How can you believe these ancient ideas of Virgin birth all powerful beingS who performs miracles and died and came back to life ;And for the sins of man, really you are nothing more than a mammal just with greater brain power than other mammals. Mankind has never had a perfect being in its past it is just a man-made idea made up by ancient cultures who thought planets were being pushed around by angels. This is fact not belief yet so many still belive in this fantasy. Every Jewish and Christian belief arose from earlier beliefs learned from other cultures mostly Persian and Roman. There are literally 100 of pieces of evidence that all religion is a man-made phenomenon. And zero actual evidence of any life after death miracles etc. Now I am talking about strongly peer reviewed evidence not some heresy evidence from65 to 160 after said to happen. However people millions of them think aliens visited roswell even with the facts pointing to a price of tinfoil and tape was the only thing discovered. Wake up.


The Jewish and Christian beliefs came from God Himself. The Bible proves that they are true. It's History and it's backed up by fulfilled Prophecy. Hundreds of them of Christ in His first and second coming. Secular History also affirms the life, death and resurrection of Christ. The Bible it's self is also eyewitness testimony of those who were actually there. The New Testament was written by people who personally knew Jesus christ. James and Jude were the brothers of christ. Jesus is Lord of all!
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7:30a, 4/30/24
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet
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