BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Realitybites said:

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historian said:

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No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

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historian said:

---

No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

---

But we're NOT being honest, based on your denial. That was the point.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

historian said:

---

No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

---

But we're NOT being honest, based on your denial. That was the point.

---

Again, the Catholic Church didn't issue death sentences or carry out executions. It was entangled with governments that did, and Protestant churches were equally if not more so. This matters for historical reasons which I won't get into right now.

Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

historian said:

---

No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

---

But we're NOT being honest, based on your denial. That was the point.

---

Again, the Catholic Church didn't issue death sentences or carry out executions. It was entangled with governments that did, and Protestant churches were equally if not more so. This matters for historical reasons which I won't get into right now.

---

That Pope wasn't a True Catholic!!!!!

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

historian said:

---

No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

---

But we're NOT being honest, based on your denial. That was the point.

---

Again, the Catholic Church didn't issue death sentences or carry out executions. It was entangled with governments that did, and Protestant churches were equally if not more so. This matters for historical reasons which I won't get into right now.

---

That Pope wasn't a True Catholic!!!!!

---

I thought that the Pope was the epidomy of Catholic?

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

historian said:

---

No one saved except Jesus. He is the only person in history who was sinless so He is only one who could have saved us. I'm pretty sure some of the Catholics here made that point too.

---

Jesus is indeed the head of His Church and the only one who saves us. This fact is not an excuse to be willfully ignorant of Christian history, the Great Cloud of Witnesses that (present tense) surround us, or examples of victorius Christian living.

---

There is no reason to believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" is the literal gathering of people in heaven who are spectators of our lives. Nothing in Scripture suggests it. And I highly doubt people in heaven would be observing all the pain, suffering, sin, and evil that is happening here.

And one can be ignorant their whole life of all the saints who ever lived, and not be hurt. But one can be eternally hurt by not ever knowing Jesus. We know absolutely nothing about Saint Evodius' life to be able to know him as an example of "victorius Christian living". We don't know if he was martyred. There is no reason to celebrate him over all the other Christians who are not known in history, but who were killed for their faith or for their work for Jesus - thousands and thousands of unknown executed by the Roman Catholic Church, even.

---

The Catholic Church never executed anyone. Catholic civil authorities did, and so did Protestant ones.

---

Right, and Hitler never killed any Jews.

---

On the contrary, he took Luther's exhortations very seriously.

---

Never personally killed those Jews. So how could he have? That's the reasoning, correct?

And he could only dream of achieving the kill count of the papacy and their "exhortations".

---

That is really taking anti-Catholic propaganda to a new level.

---

As does the suggestion of a link to the Holocaust for Protestantism.

---

Hitler himself made the link, so it's anything but new. I'm not really interested in comparing, but if you want to dredge up the (often exaggerated) historical misdeeds of the Roman Church, there's plenty of blame to go around.

---

Hitler may have made the link to Luther, but not to Protestantism. Protestants, unlike Catholics, acknowledge the fallibility (in Luther's case, very much so) of man, that no man or men are beyond approach or reprove, in any circumstance.

Sure, there's blame to go around, but there's no denying that the Roman Catholic Church used it's authority to have many people they deemed to be heretics killed. You should be honest about that, but you weren't.

---

Henry VIII had Catholics killed while acting as head of the Church of England and claimed absolute authority by divine right, for good measure...if we're being honest.

---

But we're NOT being honest, based on your denial. That was the point.

---

Again, the Catholic Church didn't issue death sentences or carry out executions. It was entangled with governments that did, and Protestant churches were equally if not more so. This matters for historical reasons which I won't get into right now.

---

That Pope wasn't a True Catholic!!!!!

---

I thought that the Pope was the epidomy of Catholic?

---

.

Epidomy?

Oldbear83 said:

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Pope wasn't a True Catholic!!!!!

---

I'm not sure that the last/current one was even trying to be a fake Roman Catholic.

Epidomy: Above the dome. Since the pope is, in Roman Catholic teaching, the vicar of Christ (well used to claim this anyway until March 25, 2020) he is regarded as being above the domes of the churches. Hence the epidomy of the Latin church. This is one Roman Catholic teaching that fell into obscurity when that church switched to the vernacular. Surprised that the bagginsess has heard about it, most Roman Catholics haven't.

Realitybites said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Pope wasn't a True Catholic!!!!!

---

I'm not sure that the last/current one was even trying to be a fake Roman Catholic.

Epidomy: Above the dome. Since the pope is, in Roman Catholic teaching, the vicar of Christ (well used to claim this anyway until March 25, 2020) he is regarded as being above the domes of the churches. Hence the epidomy of the Latin church. This is one Roman Catholic teaching that fell into obscurity when that church switched to the vernacular. Surprised that the bagginsess has heard about it, most Roman Catholics haven't.

---

I am not Catholic. That was just a statement I made from my pwn knowledge that happened to be true according to the Catholic Church.

Is there a "T"?

There is one "T".

T is for TRUTH

Pray for the family of Charlie Kirk.

Charlie Kirk wanted to lead people to Salvation through Jesus Christ. Read this first post and give your life to Jesus

Nobody? Bueller? Bueller?

Romans 10:9-13 KJV
[9] that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Realitybites said:

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Nobody? Bueller? Bueller?

---

Hopefully they were in a Bible believing Church this weekend

I was talking about the entirely fictional Doctrine of the Epidomy that I made up based on a typo. I figured Coke Bear would have sniffed that out immediately. Maybe he isn't here.

I don't know much about Cathoic Doctrine. I made the point that I thought the Pope was the epidomy of Catholicism. If you write about it before hand, it was a massive coincidence.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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I don't know much about Cathoic Doctrine. I made the point that I thought the Pope was the epidomy of Catholicism. If you write about it before hand, it was a massive coincidence.

---

Did you mean, 'epitome'?

I'm sure that is what he meant. I'm just surprised nobody said "Heyyyy...wait a minute" and threw a yellow flag on what I posted.

Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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I don't know much about Cathoic Doctrine. I made the point that I thought the Pope was the epidomy of Catholicism. If you write about it before hand, it was a massive coincidence.

---

Did you mean, 'epitome'?

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Yeah, sorry for spelling error.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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I don't know much about Cathoic Doctrine. I made the point that I thought the Pope was the epidomy of Catholicism. If you write about it before hand, it was a massive coincidence.

---

Did you mean, 'epitome'?

---

Yeah, sorry for spelling error.

---

Thought it was a new word

Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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I don't know much about Cathoic Doctrine. I made the point that I thought the Pope was the epidomy of Catholicism. If you write about it before hand, it was a massive coincidence.

---

Did you mean, 'epitome'?

---

Yeah, sorry for spelling error.

---

Thought it was a new word

---

Lol...I spelled it right the first time I used it.

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as the Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing Church and follow in baptism.

Quote:

---

God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross

---

One of the dangers in this formulation of the plan of salvation is that people tend to think that this involves a mere intellectual assent to this as a finding of fact. It is those who become disciples of Christ who are saved, not those who merely accept facts about Him and His ministry.

Quote:

---

I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours

---

That's the important part. Acquiring a new belief always involves the modification of action. Repentance, which is a change of direction, not just feeling sorry.

A PRAYER OF SALVATION: If you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as the Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing Church and follow in baptism.

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross

---

One of the dangers in this formulation of the plan of salvation is that people tend to think that this involves a mere intellectual assent to this as a finding of fact. It is those who become disciples of Christ who are saved, not those who merely accept facts about Him and His ministry.

Quote:

---

I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours

---

That's the important part. Acquiring a new belief always involves the modification of action. Repentance, which is a change of direction, not just feeling sorry.

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I think that's the distinction James made when he wrote about the importance of works. Works don't get one into heaven they are the outpouring of a heart that is changed after surrendering to God. There is no contradiction between James and Paul who described the fruit of the spirit in Galatians:

"But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Paul had similar passages in his other letters.

Surrendering to Christ changes people, for the better. It allows them to live better lives, serving others. Only God is holy but salvation through faith is counted by God as righteousness, like Abraham:

"And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness." Genesis 15:6

Serving God and others in faith brings true joy. It's unlike anything anyone can experience elsewhere. It enabled martyrs to praise God while dying.

historian said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross

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One of the dangers in this formulation of the plan of salvation is that people tend to think that this involves a mere intellectual assent to this as a finding of fact. It is those who become disciples of Christ who are saved, not those who merely accept facts about Him and His ministry.

Quote:

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I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours

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That's the important part. Acquiring a new belief always involves the modification of action. Repentance, which is a change of direction, not just feeling sorry.

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I think that's the distinction James made when he wrote about the importance of works. Works don't get one into heaven they are the outpouring of a heart that is changed after surrendering to God. There is no contradiction between James and Paul who described the fruit of the spirit in Galatians:

"But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Paul had similar passages in his other letters.

Surrendering to Christ changes people, for the better. It allows them to live better lives, serving others. Only God is holy but salvation through faith is counted by God as righteousness, like Abraham:

"And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness." Genesis 15:6

Serving God and others in faith brings true joy. It's unlike anything anyone can experience elsewhere. It enabled martyrs to praise God while dying.

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Do you agree with the prayer of salvation?

It looked solid to me. The key is the heart of the person saying it. They must truly believe in Christ, repent, & surrender. Only God knows if they are doing that, and obviously the individual.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Do you agree with the prayer of salvation?

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I agree with the repentance of salvation. A pentitent sinnner will naturally pray to God as did the publican. If there is a specific prayer of salvation it is that cry of the Publican: "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner."

I do not believe in a specifically formulated incantation where you "invite Jesus into your heart."

Your formulation is actually better than most such sinners prayers as it tracks that original one in the New Testament with more detail and fewer audibles, but with a little too much detail.

Realitybites said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Do you agree with the prayer of salvation?

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I agree with the repentance of salvation. A pentitent sinnner will naturally pray to God as did the publican. If there is a specific prayer of salvation it is that cry of the Publican: "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner."

I do not believe in a specifically formulated incantation where you "invite Jesus into your heart."

Your formulation is actually better than most such sinners prayers as it tracks that original one in the New Testament with more detail and fewer audibles, but with a little too much detail.

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The repentance that saves is the repentance away from your unbelief, dependence on anything other than Christ, anything other than Jesus and turning towards Christ for salvation.

Romans 10:9, 10-13.

Where in Paul's writings do you see repentance of sins for salvation? Under Paul's gospel of grace, we repent of our sins because Christ has already saved us through his sacrifice on the cross.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Where in Paul's writings do you see repentance of sins for salvation? Under Paul's gospel of grace, we repent of our sins because Christ has already saved us through his sacrifice on the cross.

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You are putting the cart before the horse.

"Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out," Acts 3:19.

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation." 2nd Corinthians 7:10. In fact tbis verse is a direct answer to tbe question you pose.

Repentance preceeds salvation.

Realitybites said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Where in Paul's writings do you see repentance of sins for salvation? Under Paul's gospel of grace, we repent of our sins because Christ has already saved us through his sacrifice on the cross.

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You are putting the cart before the horse.

"Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out," Acts 3:19.

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation." 2nd Corinthians 7:10. In fact tbis verse is a direct answer to tbe question you pose.

Repentance preceeds salvation.

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The verae from Acts is Peter, not Paul. Peter preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel. It was a bit different than Paul's Gospel of Grace. It was Repent, be baptized and accept your Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The second verse is the one time Paul uses the word repent in the same sentence woth Salvation. Repent means "A Change of Mind/Direction" . Biblical repentance means, "A chamge of mind from anything other than God and toward God for Salvation " this includes reliance on self, Baptism, Church, Saints, Communion, Good Deeds or anything other than Christ and His death, burial and resurrection to save you from your sins. Interestingly, Paul never brings up repentance besides this one verse. The rest of the time he emphasizes Faith in Jesus Christ, believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins.

Romans 10:9,10-13

So, I guess I can't argue that he never uses it, but why is that the only place he uses it when talking about Salvation? I have always thought that placing Faith in Jesus Christ as your only way of Salvation is repentance, because in order to place faith in Him, you automatically must turn away from everything else and let go of them and hold on to Christ and His Sacrifice. Those who hold on to other things for Salvation besides Jesus and His finished work of the cross will not be saved according to Paul.

Galatians 5:2-4 KJV
[2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [3] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. [4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Because they are still hold on to the Law, or something other than the finished work of Christ for Salvation.

So, I must conceded that 2 Corinthians 7:10 does use the work repent in referring to Salvation, but it's the only place he uses it.

So, I guess I will have to conclude that in order to truly have Faith in Jesus Christ alone and His death and resurrection to save us, we must repent of everything else and let go, including our willingness to sin. In other words, turning to Christ, surrender our will to His in Faith, believing God and His Word, would equal repentance.

Today is Sunday. Find a good Bible believing Church in attend.

A PRAYER OF SALVATION: If you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as the Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing Church and follow in baptism.