Realitybites said:

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Why Won't The US Help Negotiate A Peaceful End To The War In Ukraine?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/why-wont-us-help-negotiate-peaceful-end-war-ukraine

"For the fifth time since 2008, Russia has proposed to negotiate with the U.S. over security arrangements, this time in proposals made by President Vladimir Putin on June 14, 2024. Four previous times, the U.S. rejected the offer of negotiations in favor of a neocon strategy to weaken or dismember Russia through war and covert operations.

The U.S. neocon tactics have failed disastrously, devastating Ukraine in the process, and endangering the whole world.

After all the warmongering, it's time for Biden to open negotiations for peace with Russia..."

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Hard to know where to start on how off-the-mark the article is about the interpretation of events.

In the linked article above is a link to a phone conversation between Nuland and Amb. Pyatt which is described as "proof of US complicity" in the Maidan. see:

The conversation actually documents US planning for its position in multi-lateral diplomacy. I've been a part of those kinds of things before - understanding events that occurring....understanding the things that need to happen to avoid further instability.....ensuring the proper people are in the proper place at the proper times with the right advice and encouragement....etc... Nuland/Pyatt were clearly reacting to events, not directing them. They were trying to maintain developments already underway which were positive for US interests. THAT IS WHAT DIPLOMATS DO. They were expressing the US position that it would be preferable for the UN to be the key partner rather than the EU, for unstated but obvious reasons = If Russia is hostile to EU influence in Ukraine, then UN involvement would assuage Russian fears. (DUH).

I mean, geez, dude You do not understand what you are reading (complicated by the fact that you are reading highly politicized spin.) The phone call actually shows implicit US concern for how to get Ukraine stabilized without further antagonizing Russia (while also keeping Russia from getting involved to torpedo the whole thing). It was a very balanced approach, the furthest thing to the warmongering nonsense so often alleged.

(facepalm)

ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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The BBC is reporting that 4 Russian civilians ( including 2 children ) were killed and 150 wounded by US made missiles launched by Ukraine.

Russia is claiming US specialists operated the missiles and that they were guided by US satellites.

Putin reportedly has promised a ' response '.



Time is running out. Reality is approaching day by day.


Joe Biden and his handlers are dragging the US into war with the country possessing the most hydrogen bombs on the entire planet.

Drop the foolish the Rambo / video game mentality and tell your representatives to stop this insanity.

---

Awww, little Vlady, whose troops rape, kidnap, and murder Ukrainian women and children, got his feelings hurt . . . so sad . . . .

Has he blamed us for the terrorist attacks yet?

---

You just can't be this stupid.

Can you not connect the dots and evaluate where this could lead ?



Just how long before the Russian people demand an attack on US targets ?


If the Mexican drug cartels were killing US civilians with Russian supplied and Russian guided missiles.....
just how long would the US president wait for a response ?

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so he can launch missiles at apartment buildings, markets, malls, hospitals, kidnap 100k children, rape tens of thousands of women, but something the US didn't even do is the US's fault. You're an absolute idiot if you can't see this is not our fault.

---

Yes

It's a brilliant idea to supply missiles for another country to use in killing the civilians of a nuclear power with whom we are not at war with.

Yet


Just how long do you really believe Putin is going to tolerate US actions ? Another month or year ?

Just how many Russian civilians need to die before the political realities force Putin's hand ?

And try to focus ……..we are risking all this on behalf of a country the US has never considered vital to its strategic defense.

But now, somehow, someway Ukraine is worth billions of dollars ( we have to borrow to provide) and worth risking nuclear war ( that no one on this free message board is willing to fight )

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there is no US "action" without Putin's own actions. It's his own damn fault.

---

A. It is not Putin's sole responsibility. Only a simpleton or John Wayne impersonator could fail to comprehend the political, economic and military actions of the United States in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

B. MILLIONS of Ukrainians starved to death in the 1930's due to Stalin 's collectivization of Ukrainian farms.

The United States did nothing.

C. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were EXECUTED by Stalin in the 1940's following WW2 for 'collaborating' with the Germans.

The United States did nothing.

D. So doesn't it make you wonder why NOW is the United States providing BILLIONS of dollars we have to BORROW just to give it to Ukraine ? Why NOW is the United States willing to risk war with Russia by providing missiles and other weapons which are being employed on RUSSIAN CIVILIANS ?

E. And we are all comfortable and confident that these actions of the United States are well thought out and risks property evaluated by our president and Commander in Chief….JOE BIDEN ?

An old man in his 80's who is showing obvious signs of dementia on a weekly basis ?
An old man who can barely speak, freezes in place, and can not remember what he did even a week ago ?


But magically this guy can lead the US safely in a proxy war with the Russian people ?




Insanity

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Missiles haven't been deployed on Russian civilians you idiot. The one you are fretting over was a missile that was hit by air defense missiles. ATACMS don't miss this badly....

Russian air defense reportedly shot down an ATACMS cluster munitions variant in occupied Sevastopol 2 days ago. The amount of submunitions hitting the water/beach and how they are dispersed (wider than usual) seems to confirm the missile was downed.

This beach is only 5km away… pic.twitter.com/Bf7dwFeqcj

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) June 25, 2024

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You just might be the only poster dumber than Waco47. Four Russian civilians were killed as a result of a Ukrainian missile attack using American supplied, possibly American guided weapons.

An obvious escalation of a war brought on in part by the oldest president in American history. A president with obvious signs of dementia.

But for some unknown reason this same old man has your blind faith in his ability to safely fight a proxy war.

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LOL. I have zero faith in some old man. I hate Biden more than 99% of the people in this country. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about regarding weaponry and what is going on here.

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Suspect I have more first hand experience with military hardware than most.

If Russian civilian casualties continue to pile up due to the use of American supplied munitions…..Putin will have no real choice but to retaliate. The Russian people will demand it.

This should be obvious to anyone.

---

Or retreat or deescalate. There are other options.

And what the Russian people demand or want doesn't matter in an autocracy like Putin's. That should be obvious.

---

If the Mexican drug cartels were openly obtaining large numbers of long range missiles from Russia

And repeatedly attacking targets within the United States ; killing and wounding US civilians in the process ……ANY US president would be forced to retaliate against Russia. They could not 'retreat or 'deescalate' and maintain their support of the American people.

Putin's position is little different. Eventually he would be deposed.

Yet you and others do not even question the sanity of Joe Biden in this particular set of decisions. You probably wouldn't be comfortable letting this dementia case drive your children to school………..

Yet are confident the old fool is mentally clear enough to push a bloody proxy war without it evolving into WW3.

That to me is incredible.

sombear said:

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If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

You're way behind the establishment with continued support for permawar in Ukraine.

Stop the Ukrainian Meatgrinder?

KaiBear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

The BBC is reporting that 4 Russian civilians ( including 2 children ) were killed and 150 wounded by US made missiles launched by Ukraine.

Russia is claiming US specialists operated the missiles and that they were guided by US satellites.

Putin reportedly has promised a ' response '.



Time is running out. Reality is approaching day by day.


Joe Biden and his handlers are dragging the US into war with the country possessing the most hydrogen bombs on the entire planet.

Drop the foolish the Rambo / video game mentality and tell your representatives to stop this insanity.

---

Awww, little Vlady, whose troops rape, kidnap, and murder Ukrainian women and children, got his feelings hurt . . . so sad . . . .

Has he blamed us for the terrorist attacks yet?

---

You just can't be this stupid.

Can you not connect the dots and evaluate where this could lead ?



Just how long before the Russian people demand an attack on US targets ?


If the Mexican drug cartels were killing US civilians with Russian supplied and Russian guided missiles.....
just how long would the US president wait for a response ?

---

so he can launch missiles at apartment buildings, markets, malls, hospitals, kidnap 100k children, rape tens of thousands of women, but something the US didn't even do is the US's fault. You're an absolute idiot if you can't see this is not our fault.

---

Yes

It's a brilliant idea to supply missiles for another country to use in killing the civilians of a nuclear power with whom we are not at war with.

Yet


Just how long do you really believe Putin is going to tolerate US actions ? Another month or year ?

Just how many Russian civilians need to die before the political realities force Putin's hand ?

And try to focus ……..we are risking all this on behalf of a country the US has never considered vital to its strategic defense.

But now, somehow, someway Ukraine is worth billions of dollars ( we have to borrow to provide) and worth risking nuclear war ( that no one on this free message board is willing to fight )

---

there is no US "action" without Putin's own actions. It's his own damn fault.

---

A. It is not Putin's sole responsibility. Only a simpleton or John Wayne impersonator could fail to comprehend the political, economic and military actions of the United States in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

B. MILLIONS of Ukrainians starved to death in the 1930's due to Stalin 's collectivization of Ukrainian farms.

The United States did nothing.

C. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were EXECUTED by Stalin in the 1940's following WW2 for 'collaborating' with the Germans.

The United States did nothing.

D. So doesn't it make you wonder why NOW is the United States providing BILLIONS of dollars we have to BORROW just to give it to Ukraine ? Why NOW is the United States willing to risk war with Russia by providing missiles and other weapons which are being employed on RUSSIAN CIVILIANS ?

E. And we are all comfortable and confident that these actions of the United States are well thought out and risks property evaluated by our president and Commander in Chief….JOE BIDEN ?

An old man in his 80's who is showing obvious signs of dementia on a weekly basis ?
An old man who can barely speak, freezes in place, and can not remember what he did even a week ago ?


But magically this guy can lead the US safely in a proxy war with the Russian people ?




Insanity

---

Missiles haven't been deployed on Russian civilians you idiot. The one you are fretting over was a missile that was hit by air defense missiles. ATACMS don't miss this badly....

Russian air defense reportedly shot down an ATACMS cluster munitions variant in occupied Sevastopol 2 days ago. The amount of submunitions hitting the water/beach and how they are dispersed (wider than usual) seems to confirm the missile was downed.

This beach is only 5km away… pic.twitter.com/Bf7dwFeqcj

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) June 25, 2024

---

You just might be the only poster dumber than Waco47. Four Russian civilians were killed as a result of a Ukrainian missile attack using American supplied, possibly American guided weapons.

An obvious escalation of a war brought on in part by the oldest president in American history. A president with obvious signs of dementia.

But for some unknown reason this same old man has your blind faith in his ability to safely fight a proxy war.

---

LOL. I have zero faith in some old man. I hate Biden more than 99% of the people in this country. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about regarding weaponry and what is going on here.

---

Suspect I have more first hand experience with military hardware than most.

If Russian civilian casualties continue to pile up due to the use of American supplied munitions…..Putin will have no real choice but to retaliate. The Russian people will demand it.

This should be obvious to anyone.

---

Or retreat or deescalate. There are other options.

And what the Russian people demand or want doesn't matter in an autocracy like Putin's. That should be obvious.

---

If the Mexican drug cartels were openly obtaining large numbers of long range missiles from Russia

And repeatedly attacking targets within the United States ; killing and wounding US civilians in the process ……ANY US president would be forced to retaliate against Russia. They could not 'retreat or 'deescalate' and maintain their support of the American people.

Putin's position is little different. Eventually he would be deposed.

Yet you and others do not even question the sanity of Joe Biden in this particular set of decisions. You probably wouldn't be comfortable letting this dementia case drive your children to school………..

Yet are confident the old fool is mentally clear enough to push a bloody proxy war without it evolving into WW3.

That to me is incredible.

---

I do agree we have reached the time for peace, the point has been made that the West will push back on Russia if they continue with the invasions. Ukraine is not getting back Crimea or the parts of Donbas occupied.

I am a bit confused on why the problem getting to a peace treaty. Seems obvious, Russia keeps their "ethnic areas" that are occupied and the rest of Ukraine enters NATO. Seems pretty straight forward. There also seems a path to negotiations with Russia, as Putin's Eastern swing seems to have reenforced he will always be on the outside in the Orient.

Why that is not going forward, seems strange... I do think Trump gets it negotiated in a month. After the other night, Trump is the only choice. I am not sure Biden can finish until Jan 25.

(First hand? Thought you said you weren't in the military? If I misunderstood, I apologize)

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

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OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

sombear said:

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Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live.

---

When you accuse someone of having anti-American bias, you really need to specify if they have anti-1776 American bias, or anti-2024 American bias. I fully support the nation that wrote the declaration of independence and the bill of rights. I do not support the nation that slapped trigger warnings on them.

Realitybites said:

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You're way behind the establishment with continued support for permawar in Ukraine.

Stop the Ukrainian Meatgrinder?

---

one of the rare occasions where I disagree with VDH.

Why on earth would we stop a meatgrinder where an adversary with obvious expansionist intentions (in our direction) is suffering 1000 casualties a day and we suffering ZERO.

Every day this war goes on, Russia gets weaker. it cannot replace its losses in manpower (sub-replacement birth rate). It cannot replace its losses in equipment and is draining decades of equipment stores from the cupboards and leaving it dependent in future conflicts solely on what it can produce annually (with 10% of the GDP of its adversary).

We are winning WWIII without even putting an army in the field.

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

Your comment in bold is a torch to the strawman Kai (and many others) offered.

If Russia were to be supplying Mexico with arms to attack inside the USA, we would simply invade Mexico and install a regime which did not buy weapons from Russa.

ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

The BBC is reporting that 4 Russian civilians ( including 2 children ) were killed and 150 wounded by US made missiles launched by Ukraine.

Russia is claiming US specialists operated the missiles and that they were guided by US satellites.

Putin reportedly has promised a ' response '.



Time is running out. Reality is approaching day by day.


Joe Biden and his handlers are dragging the US into war with the country possessing the most hydrogen bombs on the entire planet.

Drop the foolish the Rambo / video game mentality and tell your representatives to stop this insanity.

---

Awww, little Vlady, whose troops rape, kidnap, and murder Ukrainian women and children, got his feelings hurt . . . so sad . . . .

Has he blamed us for the terrorist attacks yet?

---

You just can't be this stupid.

Can you not connect the dots and evaluate where this could lead ?



Just how long before the Russian people demand an attack on US targets ?


If the Mexican drug cartels were killing US civilians with Russian supplied and Russian guided missiles.....
just how long would the US president wait for a response ?

---

so he can launch missiles at apartment buildings, markets, malls, hospitals, kidnap 100k children, rape tens of thousands of women, but something the US didn't even do is the US's fault. You're an absolute idiot if you can't see this is not our fault.

---

Yes

It's a brilliant idea to supply missiles for another country to use in killing the civilians of a nuclear power with whom we are not at war with.

Yet


Just how long do you really believe Putin is going to tolerate US actions ? Another month or year ?

Just how many Russian civilians need to die before the political realities force Putin's hand ?

And try to focus ……..we are risking all this on behalf of a country the US has never considered vital to its strategic defense.

But now, somehow, someway Ukraine is worth billions of dollars ( we have to borrow to provide) and worth risking nuclear war ( that no one on this free message board is willing to fight )

---

there is no US "action" without Putin's own actions. It's his own damn fault.

---

A. It is not Putin's sole responsibility. Only a simpleton or John Wayne impersonator could fail to comprehend the political, economic and military actions of the United States in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

B. MILLIONS of Ukrainians starved to death in the 1930's due to Stalin 's collectivization of Ukrainian farms.

The United States did nothing.

C. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were EXECUTED by Stalin in the 1940's following WW2 for 'collaborating' with the Germans.

The United States did nothing.

D. So doesn't it make you wonder why NOW is the United States providing BILLIONS of dollars we have to BORROW just to give it to Ukraine ? Why NOW is the United States willing to risk war with Russia by providing missiles and other weapons which are being employed on RUSSIAN CIVILIANS ?

E. And we are all comfortable and confident that these actions of the United States are well thought out and risks property evaluated by our president and Commander in Chief….JOE BIDEN ?

An old man in his 80's who is showing obvious signs of dementia on a weekly basis ?
An old man who can barely speak, freezes in place, and can not remember what he did even a week ago ?


But magically this guy can lead the US safely in a proxy war with the Russian people ?




Insanity

---

Missiles haven't been deployed on Russian civilians you idiot. The one you are fretting over was a missile that was hit by air defense missiles. ATACMS don't miss this badly....

Russian air defense reportedly shot down an ATACMS cluster munitions variant in occupied Sevastopol 2 days ago. The amount of submunitions hitting the water/beach and how they are dispersed (wider than usual) seems to confirm the missile was downed.

This beach is only 5km away… pic.twitter.com/Bf7dwFeqcj

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) June 25, 2024

---

You just might be the only poster dumber than Waco47. Four Russian civilians were killed as a result of a Ukrainian missile attack using American supplied, possibly American guided weapons.

An obvious escalation of a war brought on in part by the oldest president in American history. A president with obvious signs of dementia.

But for some unknown reason this same old man has your blind faith in his ability to safely fight a proxy war.

---

LOL. I have zero faith in some old man. I hate Biden more than 99% of the people in this country. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about regarding weaponry and what is going on here.

---

Suspect I have more first hand experience with military hardware than most.

If Russian civilian casualties continue to pile up due to the use of American supplied munitions…..Putin will have no real choice but to retaliate. The Russian people will demand it.

This should be obvious to anyone.

---

And what the Russian people demand or want doesn't matter in an autocracy like Putin's. That should be obvious.

---

This may be the most naive post on the thread, which after a year-plus is really saying something.

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

My apologies to ATL.

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

---

Biden has dementia. He should not be president.

That has nothing to do with my position on Ukraine support.

---

Really, no connection at all? It doesn't occur to you that a state without competent leadership might want to tread lightly and get its own house in order before provoking the world's largest nuclear power?

whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

You're way behind the establishment with continued support for permawar in Ukraine.

Stop the Ukrainian Meatgrinder?

---

one of the rare occasions where I disagree with VDH.

Why on earth would we stop a meatgrinder where an adversary with obvious expansionist intentions (in our direction) is suffering 1000 casualties a day and we suffering ZERO.

Every day this war goes on, Russia gets weaker. it cannot replace its losses in manpower (sub-replacement birth rate). It cannot replace its losses in equipment and is draining decades of equipment stores from the cupboards and leaving it dependent in future conflicts solely on what it can produce annually (with 10% of the GDP of its adversary).

We are winning WWIII without even putting an army in the field.

---

Grab the popcorn, folks. Bakhmut Bob is in rare form today.

ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

The BBC is reporting that 4 Russian civilians ( including 2 children ) were killed and 150 wounded by US made missiles launched by Ukraine.

Russia is claiming US specialists operated the missiles and that they were guided by US satellites.

Putin reportedly has promised a ' response '.



Time is running out. Reality is approaching day by day.


Joe Biden and his handlers are dragging the US into war with the country possessing the most hydrogen bombs on the entire planet.

Drop the foolish the Rambo / video game mentality and tell your representatives to stop this insanity.

---

Awww, little Vlady, whose troops rape, kidnap, and murder Ukrainian women and children, got his feelings hurt . . . so sad . . . .

Has he blamed us for the terrorist attacks yet?

---

You just can't be this stupid.

Can you not connect the dots and evaluate where this could lead ?



Just how long before the Russian people demand an attack on US targets ?


If the Mexican drug cartels were killing US civilians with Russian supplied and Russian guided missiles.....
just how long would the US president wait for a response ?

---

so he can launch missiles at apartment buildings, markets, malls, hospitals, kidnap 100k children, rape tens of thousands of women, but something the US didn't even do is the US's fault. You're an absolute idiot if you can't see this is not our fault.

---

Yes

It's a brilliant idea to supply missiles for another country to use in killing the civilians of a nuclear power with whom we are not at war with.

Yet


Just how long do you really believe Putin is going to tolerate US actions ? Another month or year ?

Just how many Russian civilians need to die before the political realities force Putin's hand ?

And try to focus ……..we are risking all this on behalf of a country the US has never considered vital to its strategic defense.

But now, somehow, someway Ukraine is worth billions of dollars ( we have to borrow to provide) and worth risking nuclear war ( that no one on this free message board is willing to fight )

---

there is no US "action" without Putin's own actions. It's his own damn fault.

---

A. It is not Putin's sole responsibility. Only a simpleton or John Wayne impersonator could fail to comprehend the political, economic and military actions of the United States in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

B. MILLIONS of Ukrainians starved to death in the 1930's due to Stalin 's collectivization of Ukrainian farms.

The United States did nothing.

C. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were EXECUTED by Stalin in the 1940's following WW2 for 'collaborating' with the Germans.

The United States did nothing.

D. So doesn't it make you wonder why NOW is the United States providing BILLIONS of dollars we have to BORROW just to give it to Ukraine ? Why NOW is the United States willing to risk war with Russia by providing missiles and other weapons which are being employed on RUSSIAN CIVILIANS ?

E. And we are all comfortable and confident that these actions of the United States are well thought out and risks property evaluated by our president and Commander in Chief….JOE BIDEN ?

An old man in his 80's who is showing obvious signs of dementia on a weekly basis ?
An old man who can barely speak, freezes in place, and can not remember what he did even a week ago ?


But magically this guy can lead the US safely in a proxy war with the Russian people ?




Insanity

---

Missiles haven't been deployed on Russian civilians you idiot. The one you are fretting over was a missile that was hit by air defense missiles. ATACMS don't miss this badly....

Russian air defense reportedly shot down an ATACMS cluster munitions variant in occupied Sevastopol 2 days ago. The amount of submunitions hitting the water/beach and how they are dispersed (wider than usual) seems to confirm the missile was downed.

This beach is only 5km away… pic.twitter.com/Bf7dwFeqcj

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) June 25, 2024

---

You just might be the only poster dumber than Waco47. Four Russian civilians were killed as a result of a Ukrainian missile attack using American supplied, possibly American guided weapons.

An obvious escalation of a war brought on in part by the oldest president in American history. A president with obvious signs of dementia.

But for some unknown reason this same old man has your blind faith in his ability to safely fight a proxy war.

---

LOL. I have zero faith in some old man. I hate Biden more than 99% of the people in this country. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about regarding weaponry and what is going on here.

---

Suspect I have more first hand experience with military hardware than most.

If Russian civilian casualties continue to pile up due to the use of American supplied munitions…..Putin will have no real choice but to retaliate. The Russian people will demand it.

This should be obvious to anyone.

---

Or retreat or deescalate. There are other options.

And what the Russian people demand or want doesn't matter in an autocracy like Putin's. That should be obvious.

---

If the Mexican drug cartels were openly obtaining large numbers of long range missiles from Russia

And repeatedly attacking targets within the United States ; killing and wounding US civilians in the process ……ANY US president would be forced to retaliate against Russia. They could not 'retreat or 'deescalate' and maintain their support of the American people.

Putin's position is little different. Eventually he would be deposed.

Yet you and others do not even question the sanity of Joe Biden in this particular set of decisions. You probably wouldn't be comfortable letting this dementia case drive your children to school………..

Yet are confident the old fool is mentally clear enough to push a bloody proxy war without it evolving into WW3.

That to me is incredible.

---

You're arguing about things that haven't and aren't happening.

---

A. Ukraine has been launching US made, US supplied and possibly US guided long range missiles into Russian territory for weeks.
B. Russian civilian casualties have resulted.
C. Putin has publicly stated there will be a 'response' to such US involvement.
D. The US president is the Commander in Chief of all US military forces. That is not an empty title. Civilian control of our military is one of the few remaining bedrocks of American government.
E. Our current Commander in Chief is the oldest in US history and is obviously suffering from advanced dementia.



What part of all this 'isn't happening' ?

How can anyone believe this situation is rational ?

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

---

Biden has dementia. He should not be president.

That has nothing to do with my position on Ukraine support.

---

Really, no connection at all? It doesn't occur to you that a state without competent leadership might want to tread lightly and get its own house in order before provoking the world's largest nuclear power?

---

Zero.

Pulling Ukraine support is a decision also. I'll stand with the free world over North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia.

Again, even Trump just told the entire world that Putin's terms are unacceptable.

---

' the free world '

LOL

Somebody is still living in the 70's.

Ask the folks throughout the Muslim world what they think of the US's imposition of ' freedom '.

Or the folks throughout central America or Vietnam.

Ask the thousands of people who have had family members killed from our countless ' surgical ' air strikes over the last 25 years. Really think losing children as ' collateral damage ' makes them consider the US as the bastion of ' freedom ' ?

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

---

Biden has dementia. He should not be president.

That has nothing to do with my position on Ukraine support.

---

Really, no connection at all? It doesn't occur to you that a state without competent leadership might want to tread lightly and get its own house in order before provoking the world's largest nuclear power?

---

Zero.

Pulling Ukraine support is a decision also. I'll stand with the free world over North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia.

Again, even Trump just told the entire world that Putin's terms are unacceptable.

---

' the free world '

LOL

Somebody is still living in the 70's.

Ask the folks throughout the Muslim world what they think of the US's imposition of ' freedom '.

Or the folks throughout central America or Vietnam.

Ask the thousands of people who have had family members killed from our countless ' surgical ' air strikes over the last 25 years. Really think losing children as ' collateral damage ' makes them consider the US as the bastion of ' freedom ' ?

---

Interesting definition of "free," which, again, reflects your anti-Amercian bias.

Free world refers to capitalist democracies whose people have significant freedoms.

Unfortunately, most Muslims do not enjoy freedom and liberty.

And, we can debate whether we should have been involved in Vietnam or Central America, but we did, in fact, oppose communism, which obviously is a major affront to your beliefs.

I've never said "free" means perfect, just that I'll take free over dictatorships, communism, socialism, and theocracies any day of the week.

I get it, you prefer North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia over the U.S. and our allies. That is your prerogative. By all means, bear that badge proudly. Thankfully, in our country, we're allowed to think freely.

---

LOL

Again with the ' anti American ' foolishness.

Merely attempting ( and obviously wasting my time ) to get you to realize the US world view of itself and it's relationship with other countries is not what we were spoon fed by our propaganda machine.

We are not always the ' good guys ' and the other side is not inherently the ' bad guys '.

Unfortunately since the end of WW2 we keep getting involved with the affairs of other countries that have zero direct impact on our own national security.

As a result we have suffered the deaths of over 120,000 of our servicemen ( most of whom were merely trying to get ahead in life ) and have killed over a million civilians.

And we STILL haven't learned a damn thing.

Now it's Ukraine with an opponent who has at least as many hydrogen bombs as we do.

Insanity

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

The BBC is reporting that 4 Russian civilians ( including 2 children ) were killed and 150 wounded by US made missiles launched by Ukraine.

Russia is claiming US specialists operated the missiles and that they were guided by US satellites.

Putin reportedly has promised a ' response '.



Time is running out. Reality is approaching day by day.


Joe Biden and his handlers are dragging the US into war with the country possessing the most hydrogen bombs on the entire planet.

Drop the foolish the Rambo / video game mentality and tell your representatives to stop this insanity.

---

Awww, little Vlady, whose troops rape, kidnap, and murder Ukrainian women and children, got his feelings hurt . . . so sad . . . .

Has he blamed us for the terrorist attacks yet?

---

You just can't be this stupid.

Can you not connect the dots and evaluate where this could lead ?



Just how long before the Russian people demand an attack on US targets ?


If the Mexican drug cartels were killing US civilians with Russian supplied and Russian guided missiles.....
just how long would the US president wait for a response ?

---

so he can launch missiles at apartment buildings, markets, malls, hospitals, kidnap 100k children, rape tens of thousands of women, but something the US didn't even do is the US's fault. You're an absolute idiot if you can't see this is not our fault.

---

Yes

It's a brilliant idea to supply missiles for another country to use in killing the civilians of a nuclear power with whom we are not at war with.

Yet


Just how long do you really believe Putin is going to tolerate US actions ? Another month or year ?

Just how many Russian civilians need to die before the political realities force Putin's hand ?

And try to focus ……..we are risking all this on behalf of a country the US has never considered vital to its strategic defense.

But now, somehow, someway Ukraine is worth billions of dollars ( we have to borrow to provide) and worth risking nuclear war ( that no one on this free message board is willing to fight )

---

there is no US "action" without Putin's own actions. It's his own damn fault.

---

A. It is not Putin's sole responsibility. Only a simpleton or John Wayne impersonator could fail to comprehend the political, economic and military actions of the United States in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

B. MILLIONS of Ukrainians starved to death in the 1930's due to Stalin 's collectivization of Ukrainian farms.

The United States did nothing.

C. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were EXECUTED by Stalin in the 1940's following WW2 for 'collaborating' with the Germans.

The United States did nothing.

D. So doesn't it make you wonder why NOW is the United States providing BILLIONS of dollars we have to BORROW just to give it to Ukraine ? Why NOW is the United States willing to risk war with Russia by providing missiles and other weapons which are being employed on RUSSIAN CIVILIANS ?

E. And we are all comfortable and confident that these actions of the United States are well thought out and risks property evaluated by our president and Commander in Chief….JOE BIDEN ?

An old man in his 80's who is showing obvious signs of dementia on a weekly basis ?
An old man who can barely speak, freezes in place, and can not remember what he did even a week ago ?


But magically this guy can lead the US safely in a proxy war with the Russian people ?




Insanity

---

Missiles haven't been deployed on Russian civilians you idiot. The one you are fretting over was a missile that was hit by air defense missiles. ATACMS don't miss this badly....

Russian air defense reportedly shot down an ATACMS cluster munitions variant in occupied Sevastopol 2 days ago. The amount of submunitions hitting the water/beach and how they are dispersed (wider than usual) seems to confirm the missile was downed.

This beach is only 5km away… pic.twitter.com/Bf7dwFeqcj

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) June 25, 2024

---

You just might be the only poster dumber than Waco47. Four Russian civilians were killed as a result of a Ukrainian missile attack using American supplied, possibly American guided weapons.

An obvious escalation of a war brought on in part by the oldest president in American history. A president with obvious signs of dementia.

But for some unknown reason this same old man has your blind faith in his ability to safely fight a proxy war.

---

LOL. I have zero faith in some old man. I hate Biden more than 99% of the people in this country. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about regarding weaponry and what is going on here.

---

Suspect I have more first hand experience with military hardware than most.

If Russian civilian casualties continue to pile up due to the use of American supplied munitions…..Putin will have no real choice but to retaliate. The Russian people will demand it.

This should be obvious to anyone.

---

And what the Russian people demand or want doesn't matter in an autocracy like Putin's. That should be obvious.

---

This may be the most naive post on the thread, which after a year-plus is really saying something.

---

He successfully shapes, frames, and exploits sentiment the same way he has you hornswoggled Sam.

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

---

Biden has dementia. He should not be president.

That has nothing to do with my position on Ukraine support.

---

Really, no connection at all? It doesn't occur to you that a state without competent leadership might want to tread lightly and get its own house in order before provoking the world's largest nuclear power?

---

Zero.

Pulling Ukraine support is a decision also. I'll stand with the free world over North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia.

Again, even Trump just told the entire world that Putin's terms are unacceptable.

---

' the free world '

LOL

Somebody is still living in the 70's.

Ask the folks throughout the Muslim world what they think of the US's imposition of ' freedom '.

Or the folks throughout central America or Vietnam.

Ask the thousands of people who have had family members killed from our countless ' surgical ' air strikes over the last 25 years. Really think losing children as ' collateral damage ' makes them consider the US as the bastion of ' freedom ' ?

---

Interesting definition of "free," which, again, reflects your anti-Amercian bias.

Free world refers to capitalist democracies whose people have significant freedoms.

Unfortunately, most Muslims do not enjoy freedom and liberty.

And, we can debate whether we should have been involved in Vietnam or Central America, but we did, in fact, oppose communism, which obviously is a major affront to your beliefs.

I've never said "free" means perfect, just that I'll take free over dictatorships, communism, socialism, and theocracies any day of the week.

I get it, you prefer North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia over the U.S. and our allies. That is your prerogative. By all means, bear that badge proudly. Thankfully, in our country, we're allowed to think freely.

---

If America can't thrive in what you consider an "unfree" world, then America won't thrive. Our founders understood this.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

My apologies to ATL.

---

No more naive than thinking Ukraine will accept:

- giving up the entire east
- installing a Russian stooge and aligning with Russia
- dismantling its military
- disengaging economically from the west
- instituting pro-Russia federal education curriculum
- agreeing to no political or diplomatic alliances with the west
- and a few other gems . . . .

---

Ukraine would have accepted Russia's terms (the actual terms, not necessarily the ones you listed) if not for our influence. What they eventually accept will be worse than what they would have had a year or two ago. It certainly won't include any Russian retreat from Crimea or eastern Ukraine.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

My apologies to ATL.

---

No more naive than thinking Ukraine will accept:

- giving up the entire east
- installing a Russian stooge and aligning with Russia
- dismantling its military
- disengaging economically from the west
- instituting pro-Russia federal education curriculum
- agreeing to no political or diplomatic alliances with the west
- and a few other gems . . . .

---

Ukraine would have accepted Russia's terms (the actual terms, not necessarily the ones you listed) if not for our influence. What they eventually accept will be worse than what they would have had a year or two ago. It certainly won't include any Russian retreat from Crimea or eastern Ukraine.

---

And as Ukraine's manpower continues to melt away …..Russian demands are only going to worsen.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

If we invaded Mexico, and the entire free world and Russia were supporting Mexico with money and weapons, we would not attack the entire free world and Russia.

Of course, we would not invade Mexico in the first place.

---

The US has repeatedly attacked Mexico and various other countries in our western hemisphere for far less.

Amazing to me how many college graduates are so incredibly unaware of US history within the last 100 years and especially since the end of WW2.

Reminds me just how easy it is to manipulate our undereducated masses.

---

I'd love to meet the history professor who taught you we invaded Mexico within the last 100 years . . . .

Regardless, you failed to address any of my point.

If TODAY, we invaded Mexico, and most of the free world and Russia supported Mexico, we would not attack the free world and Russia.

And BTW, who have we (1) full-fledged invaded, (2) with the intent to take over the land and country, (3) without being threatened or attacked, (4) without the country we attacked invading another country, (5) with virtually the entire free world supporting the country we invaded, and (6) without the country violating internationally-imposed sanctions?

---

OK the Pershing Expedition was approximately 109 years ago.



The point is the same.



Bottom line.

In the reverse situation the US would do something very similar as the Russians are doing .

Common sense and the least bit of awareness of US military interventions throughout central America, the Far East, the Middle East , eastern Europe and the Philippines should make this obvious.

In fact NO ONE has invaded more other countries, bombed other countries than the United States since 1940.

Yet we claim the ' moral high ground' because a dementia riddled 81 year old says we should ?

We increasingly risk WW3 for a country the US has NEVER considered vital to its national security because the Biden crime family tells us we should ?

Insanity

---

Your anti-American bias is sad. I wish you could find a better country in which to live. Putin would be glad to have you . . . assuming you aren't a Christian, Ukrainian, capitalist, free speech advocate, or government opponent.

Pershing went after a revolutionary who attacked New Mexico. How any part of you could raise that in a discussion about Russia full-fledge invading and trying to take over a free, democratic neighbor is stunning.

I've explained my support of Ukraine numerous times on here, and I will wire you $10k if you can find even the slightest hint that my support is based in any way on my faith in Crazy Joe. That might be the greatest straw man ever erected on this site, and that is saying something . . . .

---

Yeah when facts / reality gets in the way just claim the guy is anti American.

How simplistic….how bloody stupid.

I have seen enough unnecessary bloodshed. To be led by unbelievable dishonest political and media propaganda into still another pointless disaster just isn't my goal.

And it shouldn't be for anyone with enough sense to connect the dots with an obviously dementia suffering 81 year old Commander in Chief.

If you are crazy enough not to see with your own eyes just how bad Biden is physically and mentally there is nothing else to say .

---

No, I asked a specific detailed question, and you respond with the freaking Pershing crew. I can think of no explanation but that you are so blinded by anti-U.S. sentiment.

Absolutely, far too much bloodshed, and there is a quick and easy solution: Russia withdraws right now.

---

And you continue to deflect the obvious .

A. Biden is suffering from the effects of old age and dementia.
B. You never put ANYONE suffering from such afflictions in positions of responsibility much less than involving nuclear weapons.
C. You are not anti American. Merely a hyper partisan who puts his 'team' ahead of common. sense survival priorities.
D. Hate Trump ? Fine. Nominate a mentally HEALTHY Democrat and have THAT individual win the election lead our country .
E. Old man Biden help cause this war. Old man Biden is supplying missiles which are killing Russian civilians. Only a fool would do such a thing . Eventually Putin will be forced to respond.

---

Biden has dementia. He should not be president.

That has nothing to do with my position on Ukraine support.

---

Really, no connection at all? It doesn't occur to you that a state without competent leadership might want to tread lightly and get its own house in order before provoking the world's largest nuclear power?

---

Zero.

Pulling Ukraine support is a decision also. I'll stand with the free world over North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia.

Again, even Trump just told the entire world that Putin's terms are unacceptable.

---

Which says a lot about who's really running the show and how much we care about Ukraine's interests. We like to pretend we're just supporting an ally, yet here we are dictating their behavior. It's a nice "democracy" Zelensky has there…would be a shame if something happened to it.