COMING HOME: American reporter Evan Gershkovich was detained in Russia for over a year prior to his release, while Marine veteran Paul Whelan was held for over five years. Follow this breaking story. https://t.co/hNsqZI4VLu #IStandWithEvan pic.twitter.com/hrMkRZrowA

— Fox News (@FoxNews) August 1, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

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indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

There is no moral or practical equivalence here. We bend over backward to deliver our civilians from persecution. In return, they get tactical or strategic assets lawfully convicted by democratically responsive regimes. Americans, don’t go to Russia.

— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) August 1, 2024

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

---

Again, propaganda for local domestic consumption is not the same as an actual plan.

Our own ruling class in DC keeps talking about the dangerous "Nazis" and "White nationalists" out in fly over country who pose a danger to "democracy"....are they about to start rounding people up into camps? Its propaganda meant to be consumed by a certain type of DC Regime loyalist liberal.

The same way that Moscow's talk of Nazis in Ukraine is meant to lean into the WWII mythos of the great Patriotic War in 1941....to present external enemies today...as the external enemies of the past.

And even if they meant it as a plan....they can't actually do it. They can't even take all tiny Donetsk (with a majority pro-Russian population inside of it no less)

ps

Probably does not help Ukraine that it often plays in Moscow's hands by snuggling up to neo-Nazi militia groups that openly display Nazi symbols from the past...

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

---

If you actually had the link then you could post it buddy....

Post a link that says Russian leaders claimed to want to "subsume" all of Ukraine into Russia and absorb the whole country.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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And good grief, how miserable and nihilistic does our political class have to be, risking Western civilization in an obviously failed war over a backwater country because they can't afford to lose face? They value nothing except money and power. Everything else is expendable. If you ever wanted wanted an example of cultural despair, you're looking right at it.

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If you think Western Civilization is at risk over modest military aid to a "backwater country" trying to defend itself against a despotic invader, you are the very over dramatic weakling bent on the precise decline you claim to abhor.

---

If you want to confront a nuclear power without factoring in that risk, you're being naive. Neocons are often referred to as liberals who got mugged by "reality." In other words, you're witnessing what happens when the flower power generation gets actual power and figures out that their utopian ideas can't be realized without violence. Of course utopian ideas are never realized, but no one in post-modern America wants to hear that.

---

Nary an ideal throughout history has been realized without violence whether it is actual or the threat therof. That's the Utopian navet you and many others can't fathom. This isn't about neocon, neo liberal, isolationism or populism. The nuclear equation is already cast when rogue despotism armed as such is in existence. When it actively asserts itself it played the card of requiring an address.

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Except that the only rogue actor here is NATO. We're the ones who flagrantly violate national sovereignty at our every whim, while Russia takes decades to try to negotiate a solution.

We had a rules-based international order. Too bad we weren't satisfied with it

---

which national sovereignty did Nato violate?
Specific examples, please.

---

[The 78-day NATO bombing campaign against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) in 1999, known as Operation Allied Force, was illegal because it was not authorized by the UN Security Council. NATO attempted to gain authorization, but other security council members threatened to veto the measure, so NATO launched the campaign without UN approval, calling it a humanitarian intervention.]

Still waiting for the explanation of how NATO got involved in a war where no NATO members were apart of the conflict...and how that was just.

ATL Bear said:

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Only shills would conflate invasion with influence.

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Better not tell that to Whiterock.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

And good grief, how miserable and nihilistic does our political class have to be, risking Western civilization in an obviously failed war over a backwater country because they can't afford to lose face? They value nothing except money and power. Everything else is expendable. If you ever wanted wanted an example of cultural despair, you're looking right at it.

---

If you think Western Civilization is at risk over modest military aid to a "backwater country" trying to defend itself against a despotic invader, you are the very over dramatic weakling bent on the precise decline you claim to abhor.

---

If you want to confront a nuclear power without factoring in that risk, you're being naive. Neocons are often referred to as liberals who got mugged by "reality." In other words, you're witnessing what happens when the flower power generation gets actual power and figures out that their utopian ideas can't be realized without violence. Of course utopian ideas are never realized, but no one in post-modern America wants to hear that.

---

Nary an ideal throughout history has been realized without violence whether it is actual or the threat therof. That's the Utopian navet you and many others can't fathom. This isn't about neocon, neo liberal, isolationism or populism. The nuclear equation is already cast when rogue despotism armed as such is in existence. When it actively asserts itself it played the card of requiring an address.

---

Except that the only rogue actor here is NATO. We're the ones who flagrantly violate national sovereignty at our every whim, while Russia takes decades to try to negotiate a solution.

We had a rules-based international order. Too bad we weren't satisfied with it

---

which national sovereignty did Nato violate?
Specific examples, please.

---

[The 78-day NATO bombing campaign against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) in 1999, known as Operation Allied Force, was illegal because it was not authorized by the UN Security Council. NATO attempted to gain authorization, but other security council members threatened to veto the measure, so NATO launched the campaign without UN approval, calling it a humanitarian intervention.]

Still waiting for the explanation of how NATO got involved in a war where no NATO members were apart of the conflict...and how that was just.

---

And of course Iraq.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

---

If you actually had the link then you could post it buddy....

Post a link that says Russian leaders claimed to want to "subsume" all of Ukraine into Russia and absorb the whole country.

---

You'll never see it.

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

---

Plan A: Negotiated agreement.

Plan B: Destroy the Ukrainian army.

Not a difficult question.

boognish_bear said:

---

There is no moral or practical equivalence here. We bend over backward to deliver our civilians from persecution. In return, they get tactical or strategic assets lawfully convicted by democratically responsive regimes. Americans, don’t go to Russia.

— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) August 1, 2024

---

This tweet literally makes no sense.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Actually, that's exactly why I brought it up. And I must say, I started out hopeful after your first sentence that you were going to finally condemn Russia's well-documented war crimes in Ukraine - a first for you on these boards.

And then I read the last sentence and it turned into another one of your predictable anti-American and anti-Western rants.

You might consider that you don't live in the right country, my friend. Mother Russia may be the place for you.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Actually, that's exactly why I brought it up. And I must say, I started out hopeful after your first sentence that you were going to finally condemn Russia's well-documented war crimes in Ukraine - a first for you on these boards.

And then I read the last sentence and it turned into another one of your predictable anti-American and anti-Western rants.

You might consider that you don't live in the right country, my friend. Mother Russia may be the place for you.

---

So you were just leading into an ad hominem. Less interesting, but not surprising.

Condemning Russian crimes would not be a first for me, nor is it incompatible with condemning American and Western crimes. It's called consistency.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Actually, that's exactly why I brought it up. And I must say, I started out hopeful after your first sentence that you were going to finally condemn Russia's well-documented war crimes in Ukraine - a first for you on these boards.

And then I read the last sentence and it turned into another one of your predictable anti-American and anti-Western rants.

You might consider that you don't live in the right country, my friend. Mother Russia may be the place for you.

---

Condemning Russian crimes would not be a first for me, nor is it incompatible with condemning American and Western crimes. It's called consistency.

---

You're consistently anti-Western, anti-American and anti-democratic, I will give you that. But I have to ask - what specific Russian crimes did you condemn and where? I admittedly don't read all of your tripe, so it's possible I missed it. But I doubt it.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib.

---

And yet, you justify Russian death and destruction as moral under the just war theory.

Sure you do, little buddy.

boognish_bear said:

---

There is no moral or practical equivalence here. We bend over backward to deliver our civilians from persecution. In return, they get tactical or strategic assets lawfully convicted by democratically responsive regimes. Americans, don’t go to Russia.

— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) August 1, 2024

---

There are around 100,000 American ctizens living in Russia in 2024. Why do you think it was that these two were singled out for arrest and prosecution? It is a perfectly fine place to go so long as you follow their laws. Try and import drugs, engage in espionage, or bring drag queen story time to a Russian library and you are going to see the inside of a Russian prison.

The charge against the WSJ reporter was "It was established that E. Gershkovich, acting on the assignment of the American side, collected information constituting a government secret about the activities of one of the enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex" Do you think that it was a mere coincidence that of all the things he could have chosen to report on, he was doing a story on the Wagner group? What happens to an American citizen in the US in posession of classified information, even inadvertently? I guess that depends on if you are a Republican President or a Democrat one.

As far as bending over backwards to protect civilians from persecution, ask anyone subject to the DOJ's political lawfare over the past four years how true that statement is.

Some of you sound like Hillary Clinton with her Russia! Russia! Russia! meme.

Realitybites said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

There is no moral or practical equivalence here. We bend over backward to deliver our civilians from persecution. In return, they get tactical or strategic assets lawfully convicted by democratically responsive regimes. Americans, don’t go to Russia.

— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) August 1, 2024

---

There are around 100,000 American ctizens living in Russia in 2024. Why do you think it was that these two were singled out for arrest and prosecution? It is a perfectly fine place to go so long as you follow their laws. Try and import drugs, engage in espionage, or bring drag queen story time to a Russian library and you are going to see the inside of a Russian prison.

The charge against the WSJ reporter was "It was established that E. Gershkovich, acting on the assignment of the American side, collected information constituting a government secret about the activities of one of the enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex" Do you think that it was a mere coincidence that of all the things he could have chosen to report on, he was doing a story on the Wagner group? What happens to an American citizen in the US in posession of classified information, even inadvertently? I guess that depends in if you are a Republican President or a Democrat one.

As far as bending over backwards to protect civilians from persecution, ask anyone subject to the DOJ's political lawfare over the past four years how true that statement is.

Some of you sound like Hillary Clinton with her Russia! Russia! Russia! meme.

---

No one is falling for it, Vlad.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

---

Again, propaganda for local domestic consumption is not the same as an actual plan.
Kinda like Ukraine joining Nato? Got it.

Our own ruling class in DC keeps talking about the dangerous "Nazis" and "White nationalists" out in fly over country who pose a danger to "democracy"....are they about to start rounding people up into camps? Its propaganda meant to be consumed by a certain type of DC Regime loyalist liberal.
Social Justice and Queer Theory ideologies certainly teach that as fact, so it's hardly surprising that a majority of Democrats believe it.

The same way that Moscow's talk of Nazis in Ukraine is meant to lean into the WWII mythos of the great Patriotic War in 1941....to present external enemies today...as the external enemies of the past.

And even if they meant it as a plan....they can't actually do it. They can't even take all tiny Donetsk (with a majority pro-Russian population inside of it no less)

ps

Probably does not help Ukraine that it often plays in Moscow's hands by snuggling up to neo-Nazi militia groups that openly display Nazi symbols from the past...
Zelensky will hand a weapon to anyone who wants to fight Russians, just like FDR would give planes and tanks to anyone who wanted to kill Germans, including Joseph effin' Stalin.

---

familiarize yourself with Putin's worldview. He sees Russia and Ukraine as two parts of a whole. That is not normal, in the Russian context.

"Therefore, modern Ukraine is entirely the product of the Soviet era. We know and remember well that it was shaped for a significant part on the lands of historical Russia.

The Bolsheviks treated the Russian people as inexhaustible material for their social experiments. They dreamt of a world revolution that would wipe out national states. That is why they were so generous in drawing borders and bestowing territorial gifts. It is no longer important what exactly the idea of the Bolshevik leaders who were chopping the country into pieces was. We can disagree about minor details, background and logics behind certain decisions. One fact is crystal clear: Russia was robbed, indeed."

It goes on from there, but you get the drift. Putin even claims Lithuania is Russian.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

If you are comparing invasions of other nations not sanctioned by the UN…then the Iraq invasion is something relevant to bring up

You just don't like it when people compare the actions of DC with Moscow

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

---

If you actually had the link then you could post it buddy....

Post a link that says Russian leaders claimed to want to "subsume" all of Ukraine into Russia and absorb the whole country.

---

You can watch any show that Margarita Simonyan, Olga Skabeyeva, and Vladimir Solovyov are on and hear it dozens of times. They are Putin's mouthpiece.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib.

---

And yet, you justify Russian death and destruction as moral under the just war theory.

---

Ad bellum vs. in bello. I've probably explained it a dozen times.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

---

Again, propaganda for local domestic consumption is not the same as an actual plan.
Kinda like Ukraine joining Nato? Got it.

Our own ruling class in DC keeps talking about the dangerous "Nazis" and "White nationalists" out in fly over country who pose a danger to "democracy"....are they about to start rounding people up into camps? Its propaganda meant to be consumed by a certain type of DC Regime loyalist liberal.
Social Justice and Queer Theory ideologies certainly teach that as fact, so it's hardly surprising that a majority of Democrats believe it.

The same way that Moscow's talk of Nazis in Ukraine is meant to lean into the WWII mythos of the great Patriotic War in 1941....to present external enemies today...as the external enemies of the past.

And even if they meant it as a plan....they can't actually do it. They can't even take all tiny Donetsk (with a majority pro-Russian population inside of it no less)

ps

Probably does not help Ukraine that it often plays in Moscow's hands by snuggling up to neo-Nazi militia groups that openly display Nazi symbols from the past...
Zelensky will hand a weapon to anyone who wants to fight Russians, just like FDR would give planes and tanks to anyone who wanted to kill Germans, including Joseph effin' Stalin.

---

familiarize yourself with Putin's worldview. He sees Russia and Ukraine as two parts of a whole. That is not normal, in the Russian context.

"Therefore, modern Ukraine is entirely the product of the Soviet era. We know and remember well that it was shaped for a significant part on the lands of historical Russia.

The Bolsheviks treated the Russian people as inexhaustible material for their social experiments. They dreamt of a world revolution that would wipe out national states. That is why they were so generous in drawing borders and bestowing territorial gifts. It is no longer important what exactly the idea of the Bolshevik leaders who were chopping the country into pieces was. We can disagree about minor details, background and logics behind certain decisions. One fact is crystal clear: Russia was robbed, indeed."

It goes on from there, but you get the drift. Putin even claims Lithuania is Russian.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Well technically that is true...but the same could be said for Armenia and Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan and Belarus.. etc.

But that is still just more PR/Propaganda/Trash talk for internal Russian consumption.

And of course hypocrisy since when there was a pro-Moscow government in Ukraine you did not hear any talk like this coming out of the Kremlin.

Still does not explain how Russia plans to conquer and incorporate all of Ukraine into modern Russia...or explain how they could do it (they can't)

Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself. That is not rational? Russia supplied Sadaam intelligence because that is all they could do because they were in an economic mess. In addition, Russia continues, to this day, supply Iran, N Korea and Syria, two of those we are fighting. So don't give me the Russia acted rational, they did what they were capable of doing and not losing US/UK dollars.

There is no way to defend an invasion...

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself.

---

This is the part where you pretend NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was not an irrational (an guaranteed to be see as hostile) act?

And that does not even deal with the fact that USA secret alphabet agencies almost certainly were involved in the Kyiv coup of 2014 to throw out the old pro-Moscow government and install a new pro-DC one

[Mr. Kissinger said that The United States should have done more to anchor its vanquished adversary in the post-Cold War settlement just as the Concert [of Europe] integrated a defeated France into it ranks. Instead, Washington launched a process of NATO expansion that excluded Russia. Despite his initial support for NATO enlargement, Mr. [Henry] Kissinger understood that opening the alliance to Ukraine would provoke Moscow, writing in 2014 that Ukraine should function as a "bridge" between East and West and that the country "should not join NATO." Instead, NATO beckoned Ukraine, contributing to the sense of grievance and threat that climaxed in Vladimir Putin's invasion last year.]

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself. That is not rational? Russia supplied Sadaam intelligence because that is all they could do because they were in an economic mess. In addition, Russia continues, to this day, supply Iran, N Korea and Syria, two of those we are fighting. So don't give me the Russia acted rational, they did what they were capable of doing and not losing US/UK dollars.

There is no way to defend an invasion...

---

We've done a lot more than that. We've staked our credibility and NATO's on a war without any plan to win it. That's almost a sure path to escalation.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself.

---

This is the part where you pretend NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was not an irrational (an guaranteed to be see as hostile) act?

And that does not even deal with the fact that USA secret alphabet agencies almost certainly were involved in the Kyiv coup of 2014 to throw out the old pro-Moscow government and install a new pro-DC one

[Mr. Kissinger said that The United States should have done more to anchor its vanquished adversary in the post-Cold War settlement just as the Concert [of Europe] integrated a defeated France into it ranks. Instead, Washington launched a process of NATO expansion that excluded Russia. Despite his initial support for NATO enlargement, Mr. [Henry] Kissinger understood that opening the alliance to Ukraine would provoke Moscow, writing in 2014 that Ukraine should function as a "bridge" between East and West and that the country "should not join NATO." Instead, NATO beckoned Ukraine, contributing to the sense of grievance and threat that climaxed in Vladimir Putin's invasion last year.]

---

And you leave out the Russian plant that was run out! Where did he go to when he lost? Russia because he was a Russian plant. You guys are only pissed because Russia lost this game they started. You can say with a straight face that the old Ukrainian President wasn't a Russian Proxy? They played a game of "coup" and lost, than Putin threw a tantrum and invaded. Come on, tell it like it is.

Using your logic, should we invade Venezula now? Russia clearly helped Maduro win. Yet, I don't see Marine Expeditionary Brigade on their way to Venezula